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WWE TV 12/23 - 12/29 Holiday Season is Here


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Good smackdown this week

Usos returning to save Roman from Corbin and Ziggler was a nice touch. Glad they are on the blue brand with Roman as that's a fun trio.

Gable made Sheamus's kick look like a million bucks. Landed on his neck too. I'm sure it will be a squash but that should be a fun match.

God help me but i'm enjoying babyface Lacey too. She's so natural at it. Especially her promos which are right up there with Asuka as feeling genuine and not wooden like heel Bayley and Charlotte.

Morrison going to smackdown and teaming with newly heel Miz reuniting the Dirt Sheet is going to make me feel nostalgic.

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4 hours ago, Tim Evans said:

Morrison going to smackdown and teaming with newly heel Miz reuniting the Dirt Sheet is going to make me feel nostalgic.

I hope it leads to Best and Beard reuniting too (seeing how Morrison vs Punk was an early ECW feud) to go after the Dirt Sheet. Mind you, not because I need Punk back or anything, but just to see Rollins melt down that Punk preferred working with someone else over him.

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4 hours ago, Tim Evans said:

Good smackdown this week

Usos returning to save Roman from Corbin and Ziggler was a nice touch. Glad they are on the blue brand with Roman as that's a fun trio.

Gable made Sheamus's kick look like a million bucks. Landed on his neck too. I'm sure it will be a squash but that should be a fun match.

God help me but i'm enjoying babyface Lacey too. She's so natural at it. Especially her promos which are right up there with Asuka as feeling genuine and not wooden like heel Bayley and Charlotte.

Morrison going to smackdown and teaming with newly heel Miz reuniting the Dirt Sheet is going to make me feel nostalgic.

It actually amazes me that WWE thought Lacey would be a better suited heel. Given her past as a Marine, it baffles my mind they didn't capitalize on this, especially considering Vince's hard-on for military heroes.

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17 hours ago, Strummer said:

https://twitter.com/RichLatta32/status/1213282088851521537

here is an in house production sheet of the original WM 30 card.

Big Show v Kane and Roman v Dean were originally planned for the show as well the previous ones that were already known

 

That's so weird. I'm guessing they saw zero dollars in the idea of the Shield as a babyface trio, which is just wild & incredibly shortsighted.

The company spent a full year & a half building up the Shield and their strategic, tactical teamwork. They nearly reshaped their shows to highlight trios and tags for awhile. The landscape of many weekly cards basically became like the Horseman being challenged by various rotating babyfaces, but in a modern context.

I remember once them making a big deal out of a Cena/Sheamus/Ryback (and later Big E) team. Then there was Taker coming in to side with Team Hell No. They really worked to establish the Shield.

But breaking them up in time to do a meaningless undercard match between Roman and Dean for Mania 30? Gross. The fuck were they thinking?

I was disappointed that they even cut the Shield babyface run as short as they did. I thought they still had another year in the tank as babies before splitting them up into singles.

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I want to like the Street Profits, but they strike me as "overproduced" and desperate to get their slogans and catchphrases over and it comes off as unnatural. I also think the idea that they are "naturally charismatic" is vaguely bias/prejudice/racist - the idea that because they are young and black and handsome that is somehow the equivalent of having personalities. So the producers have told them to smile alot and speak loudly and be cartoonish but, ultimately, none of it has any substance. 

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Was at the last NXT house show with Ricky Jackson in Vancouver where the Street Profits closed the show with the announcement that they'd been called up to the main roster. They were hugely over during their match and the closing of the show, and had what seemed to me as genuine charisma. They were certainly able to improvise and deliver spontaneous promos from the middle of the ring. So I pretty much disagree with DMJ on every point. Of course I'm a middle-aged white Canadian guy so my opinion might be suspect?

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other then a hyped up match here and there i never really watched nxt until they got on usa so ill take your guys words they were good down there but there act is basically channel changer for me right now.  like i have no idea who told montez ford to cut promos like that but whoever did should be fired cause they suck.  

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Yeah, I'm speaking from a position of not watching NXT weekly and only seeing their RAW stuff, which comes off as vapid to me. Or worse - the kind of stuff that Michael Hayes or Vince think will get black wrestlers over (think Cryme Tyme). I compare this to The New Day and Usos who were probably pitched lots of stuff that made them roll their eyes but somehow managed to get their actual personalities, interests, and *intelligence* into their characters. 

On another topic - and I apologize in advance for this lengthy rant, hence the spoiler tag. If you don't want to read, don't feel like you need to. Its about the Miz/CM Punk stuff:

Spoiler

 

The Miz was on Backstage and, as he usually does, boasted that his guest appearance was the best thing to happen to the show. When Paige and Renee disagreed, he joked by sarcastically saying, "Oh, sorry I didn't change the culture" - a dig at CM Punk. 

And CM Punk responded by Tweeting, "Go suck a blood money covered dick in Saudi Arabia, you fucking dork."

 

I'm Team Miz on this for a couple reasons.

1. CM Punk has been highly critical of The Miz for years now and, like several other wrestling writers/critics, it has become increasingly suspect and unfounded. People act like he got pushed to the moon as a rookie when he steadily improved for years before he got his big push - I mean, are we really going to go back and say The Miz was less deserving a World Title run than some of the other guys that were "the next big thing" in 2011? Look at that Rumble roster, folks. The Miz, even then, was more over than most of the names on that list - including Del Rio, King Sheamus, Wade Barrett, and McIntyre. Was he as good as Bryan or Punk? No. Was he has over as Orton and Edge and Cena? Probably not. But Punk has admitted before that he was jealous of The Miz's push - feeling that he deserved that main event spot at WrestleMania 27 - and it seems like he's still salty about it. Its lame. 

2. Speaking of Bryan, check out his views on The Miz from his book. He's also honest about being a bit peeved about initially being paired with The Miz, a guy who couldn't lace his boots in the ring. But instead of remaining petty and jealous, thinking Miz was beneath him, its obvious that the two were able to turn that initial unease and maybe even mistrust into remarkable chemistry. I'm guessing that for all their on-screen hatred, backstage, there's a friendship there. I mean, we already knew Daniel Bryan was a good person and CM Punk was kind of an asshole, but it just bears repeating here in relation to The Miz. 

3. Furthermore, listen to podcasts with Christian, Edge, and Jericho too - all guys who probably, initially, didn't like Miz either and felt he was just some reality TV dork who would be out of the business in 6 months. They, and others, probably even laughed it up when Chris Benoit kicked him out of the lockerroom or when JBL bullied him. In hindsight, though, The Miz actually stuck around, worked hard to get better in the ring, and proved he belonged in the lockerroom. In the words of Jay-Z, "if you can't respect that, your whole perspective is wack." 

4. CM Punk is an outspoken political guy. That's great. But not everybody is. And, as much as I loathe the Blood Money shows and think Vince is wrong for putting them on, I'm not as judgmental about the talent - except for Shawn Michaels (but that's a whole other rant). My point is - The Miz has never gone out there and espoused political views that contradict him performing in front of fans in Saudi Arabia. CM Punk's tweet implies that not is The Miz a piece of shit for performing in Saudi Arabia, but SO IS EVERY OTHER WRESTLER THAT DOES. So, CM Punk is saying the same thing about Cesaro, about The New Day, about Natalya and Lacey Evans and Reigns and Rusev and Rey Mysterio and, to me, that's going just a bit too far when, to be clear, not everyone is as politically-minded as CM Punk clearly is. Maybe CM Punk should tell Brock Lesnar to go suck a blood-covered dick next time he sees him.

5. Also - isn't one of Punk's gripes with Saudi Arabia that they are notoriously anti-LGBTQ? Anti-women? 

Well, telling someone to "go suck a dick" is also anti-LGBTQ and anti-woman. When said to another man, its a homophobic gay bash implying that performing oral sex on a man is something a "lesser" man does. When said to a woman, it implies that they need to stop talking and perform a "womanly duty" with their mouth instead. 

And when you make a point of portraying yourself as the Wokest of the Woke, which CM Punk does regularly, it is an especially bad look. 

 

 

In summation, CM Punk's tweet came off like an R-rated version of a Disney movie where the new kid in school gets bullied until the final scene - when all of the bully's friends realize that the new kid is actually cool and the bully was just an insecure dickhead. 

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Yeah of all people to pull the Saudi card on, the Miz was an odd choice. It still comes off that a lot of folks are mad that he was on TV before getting in to wrestling and is on TV while wrestling (by all accounts his Miz and Mrs show comes off as the best WWE produced reality show as Miz and family all come off as fun wacky people who seem like they'd be cool to hang out with).

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On 1/6/2020 at 7:38 PM, Rocco said:

other then a hyped up match here and there i never really watched nxt until they got on usa so ill take your guys words they were good down there but there act is basically channel changer for me right now.  like i have no idea who told montez ford to cut promos like that but whoever did should be fired cause they suck.  

Agreed, I'm changing the channel every time, and their promos/backstage "skits" have been cringeworthy since first appearing on Raw.

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On 1/9/2020 at 3:48 AM, DMJ said:

Yeah, I'm speaking from a position of not watching NXT weekly and only seeing their RAW stuff, which comes off as vapid to me. Or worse - the kind of stuff that Michael Hayes or Vince think will get black wrestlers over (think Cryme Tyme). I compare this to The New Day and Usos who were probably pitched lots of stuff that made them roll their eyes but somehow managed to get their actual personalities, interests, and *intelligence* into their characters. 

On another topic - and I apologize in advance for this lengthy rant, hence the spoiler tag. If you don't want to read, don't feel like you need to. Its about the Miz/CM Punk stuff:

  Hide contents

 

The Miz was on Backstage and, as he usually does, boasted that his guest appearance was the best thing to happen to the show. When Paige and Renee disagreed, he joked by sarcastically saying, "Oh, sorry I didn't change the culture" - a dig at CM Punk. 

And CM Punk responded by Tweeting, "Go suck a blood money covered dick in Saudi Arabia, you fucking dork."

 

I'm Team Miz on this for a couple reasons.

1. CM Punk has been highly critical of The Miz for years now and, like several other wrestling writers/critics, it has become increasingly suspect and unfounded. People act like he got pushed to the moon as a rookie when he steadily improved for years before he got his big push - I mean, are we really going to go back and say The Miz was less deserving a World Title run than some of the other guys that were "the next big thing" in 2011? Look at that Rumble roster, folks. The Miz, even then, was more over than most of the names on that list - including Del Rio, King Sheamus, Wade Barrett, and McIntyre. Was he as good as Bryan or Punk? No. Was he has over as Orton and Edge and Cena? Probably not. But Punk has admitted before that he was jealous of The Miz's push - feeling that he deserved that main event spot at WrestleMania 27 - and it seems like he's still salty about it. Its lame. 

2. Speaking of Bryan, check out his views on The Miz from his book. He's also honest about being a bit peeved about initially being paired with The Miz, a guy who couldn't lace his boots in the ring. But instead of remaining petty and jealous, thinking Miz was beneath him, its obvious that the two were able to turn that initial unease and maybe even mistrust into remarkable chemistry. I'm guessing that for all their on-screen hatred, backstage, there's a friendship there. I mean, we already knew Daniel Bryan was a good person and CM Punk was kind of an asshole, but it just bears repeating here in relation to The Miz. 

3. Furthermore, listen to podcasts with Christian, Edge, and Jericho too - all guys who probably, initially, didn't like Miz either and felt he was just some reality TV dork who would be out of the business in 6 months. They, and others, probably even laughed it up when Chris Benoit kicked him out of the lockerroom or when JBL bullied him. In hindsight, though, The Miz actually stuck around, worked hard to get better in the ring, and proved he belonged in the lockerroom. In the words of Jay-Z, "if you can't respect that, your whole perspective is wack." 

4. CM Punk is an outspoken political guy. That's great. But not everybody is. And, as much as I loathe the Blood Money shows and think Vince is wrong for putting them on, I'm not as judgmental about the talent - except for Shawn Michaels (but that's a whole other rant). My point is - The Miz has never gone out there and espoused political views that contradict him performing in front of fans in Saudi Arabia. CM Punk's tweet implies that not is The Miz a piece of shit for performing in Saudi Arabia, but SO IS EVERY OTHER WRESTLER THAT DOES. So, CM Punk is saying the same thing about Cesaro, about The New Day, about Natalya and Lacey Evans and Reigns and Rusev and Rey Mysterio and, to me, that's going just a bit too far when, to be clear, not everyone is as politically-minded as CM Punk clearly is. Maybe CM Punk should tell Brock Lesnar to go suck a blood-covered dick next time he sees him.

5. Also - isn't one of Punk's gripes with Saudi Arabia that they are notoriously anti-LGBTQ? Anti-women? 

Well, telling someone to "go suck a dick" is also anti-LGBTQ and anti-woman. When said to another man, its a homophobic gay bash implying that performing oral sex on a man is something a "lesser" man does. When said to a woman, it implies that they need to stop talking and perform a "womanly duty" with their mouth instead. 

And when you make a point of portraying yourself as the Wokest of the Woke, which CM Punk does regularly, it is an especially bad look. 

 

 

In summation, CM Punk's tweet came off like an R-rated version of a Disney movie where the new kid in school gets bullied until the final scene - when all of the bully's friends realize that the new kid is actually cool and the bully was just an insecure dickhead. 

It's fascinating to think about when exactly Punk's rep as snarky, defiant iconoclast changed to just being a hypocritical snarky asshole. After he got clowned twice in UFC? After he came back to WWE - people can keep saying it's a Fox decision and not a WWE decision as much as they want, I have a hard time believing they could put him on without Vince's approval? After he counter-sued Cabana? 

This is certainly anecdotal, but unlike 2014, no one seems to like Punk or care about anything he says anymore. The only time he gets some support is when he goes against Seth Rollins, and that is the ultimate damning with faint praise. His comeback to Backstage has also not resulted in nearly the kind of ratings bump they were likely expecting. 

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The funny thing is his rep was being a snarky asshole before he did the pipe bomb promo and he became an Internet Hero for saying WWE sucks on WWE TV. Then he got bonus points for telling WWE to fuck off and leaving when their doctors nearly killed him.

It's like people forgot his entire career before he cut that promo, and when he turned out to still be a snarky asshole people were like an IRL version of the shocked Pikachu meme. 

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No, I agree that he always had a rep for being a snarky asshole. However, that was considered just one factor in his perception; the defiant indy guy who was telling it like it is also made him beloved. 

Now though, all people seem to think of him is that he is a snarky asshole. Difference is no one seems to take him seriously anymore in my experience. 

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The UFC thing definitely hurt. He spent a lot of time leading up to his first fight on social media showing all the training he was doing, and he went in there looking like he literally just walked off the street into the cage. For all the talking he did about how it pissed him off part timers were walking in to WWE and getting main event spots on big events, it made him look like a gigantic hypocrite to basically do the same thing in UFC. To be fair, he clearly wanted to do it and by all accounts put in as much work as a guy with a body broken down from a pro wrestling career could, but it was a bad look for a guy who was as vocal as he is. It shot a lot of his credibility which is pretty much all you have in wrestling. Coming back to do a WWE-adjacent gig just makes him look like he didn't even have the balls to sell out properly and is just hiding behind the veneer of "well actually, I work for Fox". 

Plus it seems like he's salty his big return didn't pop huge numbers, when it just seems people don't give two shits about a show that's so blatantly just WWE propaganda disguised as a talking head sports show. 

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C.M. Punk's wrestling excursion into the world of MMA really exposed how little athletic ability the man has. That wasn't all age & an injured body. He genuinely came off like a guy that wouldn't be able to hit a baseball, catch a fly ball, etc. He looked like a deer in headlights. If anything, I think it proved that a lot of his success in the world of professional wrestling came from being a long-time fan growing up & being a fantastic promo. Even in the ring in wrestling he never came off as fluid. It never really looked natural. He was able to overcome that due to the bells & whistles of the entertainment parts of the industry.

Compare Punk to Lesnar in MMA. Lesnar came off as a super athlete that lacked experience. Punk came off like Corey Haim in the movie Lucas trying to play football. Which, of course, Brock was a monster in NCAA wrestling & almost made the Minnesota Vikings as a walk-on, so that makes sense.

Wasn't C.M. Punk's wrestling idol Roddy Piper? And I'm pretty sure Piper had a legit background in boxing. 

I feel like there's a reason that a lot of people in charge of discovering talent, such as Jim Ross in the past, are looking for people with more athletic backgrounds. There's a lot of wrestlers that have found success after football, in example. Hell, even Mark Henry, despite his size, could dunk a basketball. You can't teach that. I think Punk opened some eyes in that you can do wrestling without certain tools but you can't do MMA without those tools.

I think that Punk's success in wrestling was the exception to the unwritten rule of athleticism. His failure at mixed martial arts, regardless of what people say about him being courageous for trying it, took all of the impact out of his tough guy words. Wrestling fans, I feel, would welcome him back with open arms, but I think that's more about the state of American wrestling more than the talents of C.M. Punk. There's not a lot of genuine surprises in wrestling anymore & for a long time, the surprises were the best part. Punk returning to WWE or showing up in AEW or whatever would have been a genuinely big moment. Instead he shows up on a show that no one watches & falls into obscurity as his attempts at being a pipe bomb dropper, or whatever, fall on deaf ears now.

Punk is a success story despite his MMA adventure. Made his money, married a beautiful woman & now gets to do things that he enjoys without having to worry too much about the daily stress of monthly bills. I can't hate on him for that. He's definitely a man that succeeded despite all the odds being against him. But when he's trying to come off as the snarky, asshole prick on social media or whatever, people can just look at him getting his ass whipped & ignore him. If we're talking Marquess of Queensberry, I'm pretty sure I'd take Miz over Punk.

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I will disagree slightly with @Coffey - I think the fans would have wholeheartedly embraced Punk if he had returned to the ring for WWE or AEW (and probably still would if he shows up in the Royal Rumble). No one cares about Punk's UFC background. Unfortunately for Punk, no one cares about WWE Backstage either. That's why it was easy for everyone to side with Miz in this. 1. Punk was wrong and an asshole. 2. Miz is actually wrestling week-in and week-out. The fans can easily see him and respect what he's doing. No one is watching Punk on a late night talk show. "Out of sight, out of mind" and "what have you done for me lately?" both apply to Punk.

True, Punk was never a fluid "worker." It was all about charisma, attitude, and mic work. Further proof that rasslin' doesn't matter and is never what draws. 

I'd also take Miz over Punk, but Miz is successful for mostly the same reasons. 

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