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Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?


flyonthewall2983

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I did say i will step out of this debate as we going in circles, and I've said most of what i have to say on it.

But I do have a philosophical take on if there's any difference on someone in the arts using satire for comedy effect. Why is there's a different standard for someone to use it in everyday life to entertain their friends, if the end result is the same, to make people laugh. 

But i think at this point i will bow out and get ready to watch AEW Dynamite 

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1 hour ago, ragemaster said:

I did say i will step out of this debate as we going in circles, and I've said most of what i have to say on it.

But I do have a philosophical take on if there's any difference on someone in the arts using satire for comedy effect. Why is there's a different standard for someone to use it in everyday life to entertain their friends, if the end result is the same, to make people laugh. 

But i think at this point i will bow out and get ready to watch AEW Dynamite 

I'm kinda confused because on one hand I understand the "people make mistakes", specially when it comes to stupid people, so one fuck up shouldn't end someone's career. But Carter's fuck up wasn't in a vacuum and you keep treating it that way.

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The problem is how they connected, I try not to judge someone from twitter evidence alone. I still think it should be a police matter and not for the online community to pass judgment. Yes in isolation the picture his ex wife posted of him abusing her is damming. But then his tag team partner and his wife defended him and said he was at their house at the time of the alleged abuse.

So either three people are coving up the abuse or one is lying about said abuse, I'm not the police nor was i there. So I don't believe the abuse allegations or pass judgment until more evidence materialises. 

So i don't use let it cloud my judgment when it comes to the other issue and it gives me more sympathy for him as she released the picture to hurt his career. 

If it turns out more evidence surfaces, i will change my view when and if that happens.

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What Paul London says is quite significant. How can people as stupid as Vince be rich?

 

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The worst experience I had [dealing with an agent] was with Dean [Malenko] because Dean and I got along really well. You know, I think he always liked the cruiserweight guys and he had something — he was always in their corner for the most part, but then there was a time when [Billy] Kidman had recently been let go and I thought, here’s the green light for me to start doing this Shooting Star [Press] that I can do better than him and probably better than anybody at the time. So I was like, great, this is gonna help me get over even more or whatever. So I did it on like one ‘Velocity’ onto Nunzio. I remember it was I think in Buffalo and the crowd popped huge and they exploded and I get to the ramp and I get into the Gorilla and of course, Dean was my agent. I get into the Gorilla and I think it was Jerry Brisco who’s back there who was like, ‘This is coming from Vince: No more 450’ and I looked at Dean and I was like, ‘All right. That wasn’t a 450.’ ‘Well whatever it was, you can’t do it anymore. No more off the top for you,’ and I looked at Dean, I was like, ‘What the f*ck?’ You know? And Dean looks at me and he goes, ‘Let’s go. Let’s take care of this right now. Let’s go talk to Vince right now.’ So we power-walked from Gorilla past the big monitor. Everyone was standing, clapping because this was — you don’t really get a standing ovation from the boys for a ‘Velocity’ match, you know? But like, I was busting sh*t out and I had walked past, everyone was giving me a standing ovation. We’re walking past, I’m like, ‘Okay, yeah, thanks.’ I couldn’t even acknowledge it because I was so pissed off and we’re walking down the hallway and right as we get into Vince’s office, Dean stops and he looks at me and he goes, ‘Let me handle this. I got this’ and I was like, ‘All right. You’re the agent’ and we walk in and I kid you not, in under a minute, he — you know, we go in and he looks at Vince [McMahon] and he goes, ‘Excuse me sir, what is this you don’t want him — no more top rope moves or something?’ He goes, ‘Yeah, no more off the top!’ And Dean just goes, ‘Okay’ and he just walks out [London laughed]. Like just walks out. The tail was not only in between his legs, it was up his ass and he just leaves me there and so, of course I’m not just, you know, do the same thing and be like, ‘Okay,’ you know? I was like, well f*ck it. If he’s not gonna fight for me, I’m gonna fight for myself and I’m just gonna — and very diplomatically. I wasn’t like, ‘Well this is bullsh*t!’ You know? Apparently, I had this reputation that I had an attitude problem when I worked there and I was whatever and I don’t really know where that comes from unless it’s being said by somebody who works in the office there now — Bruce Prichard — and it’s like I wasn’t difficult or I didn’t have an attitude, I just gave a f*ck. I gave a f*ck about my work, I cared about it. I had known what I had sacrificed just to even be in the locker room at my size so like, forgive me for giving a f*ck about myself and having confidence. Oh, God forbid, you know, so of course I was gonna stand up for myself and I was like, ‘Excuse me sir, I just don’t understand where you’re coming from with this’ and he was like, ‘Oh, well you know, I don’t want guys getting hurt and going off the top and everyone’s gonna get hurt’ and I said, ‘No, I don’t understand. This is my move. This is my finisher and nobody else was gonna do it, plus did you see the reaction? The people liked it, they popped.’ He was like, ‘It’s not about what the people like!’ I swear to God and I was just like, this is crazy land. He goes, ‘It’s not about what the people want. You know, it’s about guys getting hurt.’ I said, ‘Well, nobody’s gonna get hurt because I do it better than anybody and nobody’s gonna do this move because it’s my finisher’ and he looked me dead in the eyes and he goes, ‘Oh, so you want us to make an exception for you?’ I was like, ‘That’s kind of what finishers are you dumb f*ck.’

 

https://www.postwrestling.com/2022/05/17/paul-london-discusses-past-working-relationship-with-dean-malenko-issues-with-malenko-as-an-agent/

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100% Vince thought that the move was too cool/fancy to be used by a guy he only saw as a jobber. There's no way he's telling anyone upper midcard or higher to stop doing their finish unless there was an issue someone got legit hurt from it.  Pulling a power trip on someone who can't politically do anything about it is the kind of thing that gets him off.

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I thought it was common knowledge that the shooting star press had been banned in WWE for safety reasons. I remembering hearing that they made Evan Bourne do like 100 of them in a row before they gave him permission to use it as his finisher. I can kind of see where Vince is coming from here. If the only people I had seen execute the SSP were Brock Lesnar and Billy Kidman, I'd probably decide the move was too risky too.

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5 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

I thought it was common knowledge that the shooting star press had been banned in WWE for safety reasons. I remembering hearing that they made Evan Bourne do like 100 of them in a row before they gave him permission to use it as his finisher. I can kind of see where Vince is coming from here. If the only people I had seen execute the SSP were Brock Lesnar and Billy Kidman, I'd probably decide the move was too risky too.

Marc Mero's SSP looked pretty safe, I thought. He usually did it tucked, which I assume is easier, but still.

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Vince started out in a pretty good place because of his dad. He made some good decisions and made more money, but he was also put in a place where he could make those decisions. When things he had done failed (XFL, World Bodybuilding Federation, etc) he always had the business that his family built and that he took over to fall back on. When people are rich they can afford to do things that will fail or not make money because the losses from it won't really hurt them in the long run. It's the equivalent of me buying a lottery ticket. If I win, great. If I don't, those few dollars won't really set me back. It's just on such a large scale that it's insane. 

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Interesting story there from London. I believe that stems from Juventud breaking London's nose with the 450 in the month prior (8 or 9 months after his previous broken nose)

the Shooting Star was never banned after the Chavo injury incident (August 2004), they turned that in to a storyline (Kidman being afraid to do it after that) and used it to turn him heel on London (where he did the shooting star to London as he was strapped to a stretcher). Kidman was still using it up to his last televised victory (May 2005)

Kidman was released in July 05. so a few weeks later is the Nunzio match where London uses it, then gets in trouble, and the next week he drops the cruiserweight title to Nunzio on Velocity. After that he's pretty much on a losing streak until the Kendrick team took off in mid 06. Then of course 2 years later, Evan Bourne was signed and doing the SSP from day 1.

 

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So, the crowd chanted "This is stupid" at the latest Joe Gacy angle, uh ? Heavy vibes of old TNA and Abyss angles in this... Joe Gacy is seemingly the new Bray Wyatt, only there's nothing cool nor interesting about him like there was with the Wyatt Family at first. He jumped straight into "go away heat" Bray Wyatt mode apparently. 

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So, if WON is right, Sasha & Naomi's suspension is without pay. Basically, they are suspended without pay, their contract are freezed, their merchandizing has been pulled off. Independent contractors and all. This is getting quite transparent now. Way to terrorize your employees too, as it's obviously a message sent all across the board.

Can't Sasha call the actor's guild or something ? 

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6 hours ago, El-P said:

So, the crowd chanted "This is stupid" at the latest Joe Gacy angle, uh ? Heavy vibes of old TNA and Abyss angles in this... Joe Gacy is seemingly the new Bray Wyatt, only there's nothing cool nor interesting about him like there was with the Wyatt Family at first. He jumped straight into "go away heat" Bray Wyatt mode apparently. 

Gacy's character is just terrible. But hey, nothing is going to prepare Bron to a main roster run more than having a stupid spoopy feud.

Roman deserves to be in the GOAT conversation for not only refusing to engage with Fiend Wyatt crap but shipping him to a different show altogether.

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1 hour ago, El-P said:

So, if WON is right, Sasha & Naomi's suspension is without pay. Basically, they are suspended without pay, their contract are freezed, their merchandizing has been pulled off. Independent contractors and all. This is getting quite transparent now. Way to terrorize your employees too, as it's obviously a message sent all across the board.

Can't Sasha call the actor's guild or something ? 

I will never understand how they did that with Bryan. If a performer can not physically perform the essential duties of the contract, it should void the contract. Sasha and Naomi are a different matter as their absence is voluntary. 

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2 hours ago, Al said:

I will never understand how they did that with Bryan. If a performer can not physically perform the essential duties of the contract, it should void the contract. Sasha and Naomi are a different matter as their absence is voluntary. 

If WWE cut Bryan after "career-ending" concussions, everyone would've been out for blood. I'm sure Bryan, while gutted to be forced into retirement, was still happy to be paid. 

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