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Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?


flyonthewall2983

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Well, they could do way worse with older talent. Sheamus and Jeff are over their 40s, and while Roode is 41, he's barely used anymore. Big Show is basically a part-timer, Rey is being used to put other guys over, and AJ is still taken seriously.

I get the comparisons are going to happen, but I guess that's a bit overstated.

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The problem isn't so much the age of their stars. It's more that I can't point to a single, full-time person on the active roster that I can say is definitely above the IC title picture. If the goal is to create Rob Van Dams or Tito Santanas, they've done a fabulous job and created dozens of them.

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In hindsight, it's Rock coming back in 2011 that really kickstarted their habit of making current stars look like geeks. He returned in Feb for a guest host role and ratings and house show business shot up immediately. Since then, WWE have basically been trying to capture that lightning in a bottle again, with increasingly worse results. 

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Yeah, Austin being the star of the show in 2003 was bad - especially when Goldberg was right there and they should have strapped a rocket to his ass - but him not being able to wrestle means his hijinks were at least an annoying distraction from the main event scene - which of course was being ruined by Hunter cosplaying Ric Flair, Harley Race and Hulk Hogan. In some ways, I think Cena got lucky cuz Austin kept having management issues and would mostly be off-camera after WM 20, and HHH got injured in early 2007 and that got them to build the show around Cena and he became the biggest star since Austin/Rock. That DX face run in 2006 started good and became terrible within 4 skits. 

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There was at least something of worth in Michaels's act as an old out-of-touch dad. Triple H trying to play the cool v smart jock right when the Edge feud was finally solidifying Cena as the top face, upstaging Cena in the process as he participated in stupid barbeques, was putrid and emblematic of the same philosophy that has completely rotten the system now. 

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I guess here, you can see the difference of mentality between Lio Rush and someone like Aleister Black. I recall reading an interview from Black a few years back where he was still on NXT but working a European tour and he did exactly what Lio Rush said he was asked to do; making sure that water bottles were ready for talents in the locker room, carrying stuff, etc. Roman Reigns came to him and told him he didn't have to do that but Black said he did it because that's how he was taught in the business and he wanted to show respect to the locker room. Lio can play the race card all he wants but his history of immaturity caught up to him once again.

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Lio has his issues, but if someone doesn't feel comfortable being a lackey for the boys (especially someone who's black) then the company should respect that. If Aleister is ok with it then fine, but the expectation shouldn't be that anyone *has* to do it.

Not to mention that race aside, the whole "dues paying" idea is some carny bullshit that should have stopped generations ago but it's one of those things that live on because people feel if they were treated shitty then the next group in should be made to as well. 

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Dave was mentioning on Twitter that it's going over like a lead balloon with a lot of the people in WWE. Like everyone knows you support Trump, but you aren't part of his admin anymore and don't need to blatantly lick boots in public to appease him anymore. Especially this week. Learn to read the room and STFU.

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19 minutes ago, Coffey said:

 I don't think this will stir up as much drama as The Forgotten Son did - nor will people employed by WWE probably want to ruffle feathers of any of the Powers That Be, but this is still pretty tone deaf.

Come on, you know she isn't working in the company.... that has nothing to do with WWE.... eww... BlackLivesMatter !!!!! .... ewww... Putting smiles on faces ! .... eww.. Fuck.

Yeah, of course it should stir up a whole lot more shit, because the other dude is just an ignorant fool, but this is the true face of the family who is working on re-electing a white supremacist maniac. But it won't of course.

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It'd be nice if some of the talent would speak out instead of stewing privately if it bothers them that much. Standing up for equality and human rights is great and all, but it's an empty gesture if you only do it when there's no cost to you personally. I mean, dragging Gunner is the very definition of punching down.

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4 hours ago, sek69 said:

Dave was mentioning on Twitter that it's going over like a lead balloon with a lot of the people in WWE. Like everyone knows you support Trump, but you aren't part of his admin anymore and don't need to blatantly lick boots in public to appease him anymore. Especially this week. Learn to read the room and STFU.

Isn't she in charge of a Trump Super PAC. It's more her job to kiss ass than it was when she was in the administration.

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Im surprised the cynicism of the WWE office isnt calling up and pushing all the charismatic black men they can find to take the stink off Linda's Trump connections. 

Or perhaps they fear their dwindling fanbase is more inclined to side with the police rather than blm/protestors. 

Probably need to subscribe to wo for a couple of months to find out what's going on i guess. 

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11 hours ago, sek69 said:

Lio has his issues, but if someone doesn't feel comfortable being a lackey for the boys (especially someone who's black) then the company should respect that. If Aleister is ok with it then fine, but the expectation shouldn't be that anyone *has* to do it.

Not to mention that race aside, the whole "dues paying" idea is some carny bullshit that should have stopped generations ago but it's one of those things that live on because people feel if they were treated shitty then the next group in should be made to as well. 

WWE is a billion-dollar company (is it still?). There is no reason talent should have to carry bags and shit like that. Sorry, but things change. You can be respectful to the veterans of the company without being their lackey. 
 

(edit: I hope it’s clear that I’m agreeing with sek here.)

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11 hours ago, SirEdger said:

Lio can play the race card all he wants but his history of immaturity caught up to him once again.

That's not it, bubba. Your post itself described how those two situations are different.

Lio was asked many times to carry bags and do things to "earn respect". Black did on his own and was told he didn't need to.

Neither are wrong per se, and Lio doesn't even believe that the WWE is a racist company. But asking a then 23 year old African  american man to carry bags for grown ass men, especially white men, with that reasoning surely could lead to uncomfortable situations.

 

Like, it took him two years AFTER trying to solve the problem internally, and even then maintaining the identities private, to make this situation public. He may have been immature in other situations but this wasn't one of them.

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23 hours ago, SirEdger said:

I guess here, you can see the difference of mentality between Lio Rush and someone like Aleister Black. I recall reading an interview from Black a few years back where he was still on NXT but working a European tour and he did exactly what Lio Rush said he was asked to do; making sure that water bottles were ready for talents in the locker room, carrying stuff, etc. Roman Reigns came to him and told him he didn't have to do that but Black said he did it because that's how he was taught in the business and he wanted to show respect to the locker room. Lio can play the race card all he wants but his history of immaturity caught up to him once again.

You undermine your own point completely.

Aleister Black, a white wrestler, was specifically told by Triple H that he didn't have to do any of those things. Black said he wanted to do them because that's how he was brainwashed taught. 

Lio Rush, a black wrestler, was never specifically told by Triple H that he didn't have to do any of those things (as far as we know). When pressured to do them by others, he said he didn't want to. 

Chastise Lio Rush all you want "for playing the race card," but there is an entire race-related history and weight in this country to what Lio was adamant against doing that wouldn't necessarily exist for a white wrestler - especially one from another country like Black. Even if Lio was "immature" and thought he was "too good" to run errands, so what? He's fucking right. If you're a WWE wrestler, you've ostensibly "made it" and shouldn't have to "prove" anything to anyone. 

 

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Lio didn't even call WWE flat-out racist. He said they were racially insensitive. I don't think anyone can argue against that.

The Aleister-Lio comparison doesn't work for reasons already explained. I'll note that Aleister came up in kickboxing dojos and when one had to be referred to a wrestling school. Based on age, race and experience, there's no way for him and Lio to have the same opinion. Also, Aleister told his locker room story when Roman took his LOA in October 2018.

Lio had no problem with setting up/breaking down rings, running merch tables and greeting fans in NXT. Because everyone did that. It's not a case of thinking he's too good to help out.

Fetching water and carrying bags for other grown men is ridiculous. That's a form of hazing. If someone in the RAW locker room couldn't see how expecting a Black man to do these things was a bad look, especially in 2019/2020, that speaks to their ignorance.

Do I think Lio has a stubborn streak that can rub others the wrong way? Yep. But he's not wrong about this situation. From what I can tell, he's handled it pretty maturely. 

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On 4/23/2020 at 1:29 AM, Kadaveri said:

This is gonna sound a bit tinhat, but I suspect Drake Maverick being released is a work. He's really playing up how heartbroken he is at losing his dream job and him still being included in the tournament seems like it's set up for a storyline of him doing so well WWE can't go through with firing him.

It was a work wasn't it.

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