Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

[C.S.]

3 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

(IMO it started cracking around Finn's reign of terror)

The Finn-Joe era was some of the most boring shit ever, with some of the most overrated matches ever.

Nak was around this time too, right? Another dud as champion. He was amazing in his debut against Sami Zayn, and it was all downhill from there.

The Gargano-Ciampa(-Andrade) era was amazing at first, with some of the best matches in NXT history, but they ran the Gargano-Ciampa feud into the ground to the point of diminishing returns. That - whatever the fuck it was - on WrestleMania weekend was abysmal. 

Ironically, I'd welcome another Joe reign now. Compared to Kross, he'd be an amazing breath of fresh air.

 

[sek69]

So listening to the morning WON show, Dave is mentioning how he doesn't expect a lot of people in WWE to leave for AEW since apparently a lot of people in WWE are brainwashed that AEW is actually not good and all the sellouts are fake because Tony Khan buys all the tickets.

 

[C.S.]

1 minute ago, sek69 said:

So listening to the morning WON show, Dave is mentioning how he doesn't expect a lot of people in WWE to leave for AEW since apparently a lot of people in WWE are brainwashed that AEW is actually not good and all the sellouts are fake because Tony Khan buys all the tickets.

If any of that is true, AEW doesn't need people that dumb poisoning their locker room.

Probably all Q-pilled morons anyway.

[sek69]

Another interesting tidbit was that Andrade is telling people he wants his whole family, meaning Rush/Dragon Lee/Beastia as well as Ric and Charlotte, to join him in AEW at some point.

[Boss Rock]

Here for Lee and Rush. Not so much for the others.

[Blehschmidt]

I don't know why, but I actually have a feeling that Charlotte will jump whenever her contract is up.

 

[sek69]

43 minutes ago, Blehschmidt said:

I don't know why, but I actually have a feeling that Charlotte will jump whenever her contract is up.

 

Well her fiancée is there and her dad will probably show up there at some point. Makes sense she would want to join them. 

Funny thing is Ric ended his podcast because he didn't want it to create a situation where he said something that affected Charlotte's career, him going to AEW would probably piss Vince off more than anything that would happen on a podcast.

[Rah]

Word going around is Adam Cole has been offered $1mil and a main roster spot. I wonder if he'll sign. 

Out of curiosity, does he move the needle that much to justify such a contract?

[rovert]

9 hours ago, sek69 said:

Dave's take on WOR this morning was this was Vince's response to NXT failing so badly against AEW. He noted WWE doesn't start fights they think they can lose, and it's clear reading between the lines (and also from Vince's comments at the shareholder meeting) that he clearly thought he was going to be able to stomp them down fast, and seeing them succeed like this clearly is upsetting him. Dave referred to HHH as the "losing General" and now is taking his lumps because of it. 

I was going to comment a few days ago about your tweet about Karrion Kross on Raw but the reply function wasn't working. I got a Direct Message minutes before it from someone in NXT saying it was a Kevin Dunne call. As Dunne hates everything about NXT and wants to "kill" it.

A few days later the NXT TV rebranding news comes out.

Regardless of the politics, NXT TV has some very ugly graphics and music choices. And the yelling by the announcers needs to end.

[sek69]

49 minutes ago, rovert said:

I was going to comment a few days ago about your tweet about Karrion Kross on Raw but the reply function wasn't working. I got a Direct Message minutes before it from someone in NXT saying it was a Kevin Dunne call. As Dunne hates everything about NXT and wants to "kill" it.

A few days later the NXT TV rebranding news comes out.

Regardless of the politics, NXT TV has some very ugly graphics and music choices. And the yelling by the announcers needs to end.

I'm mostly surprised Kevin even knows NXT exists. 

As much as I enjoy the in ring on NXT, the production is awful. The graphics/music come off like some emo kid's nu metal blog from the early 2000s. 

I do like Vic and Wade announcing. Beth still comes off like her chair is constantly sending electrical shocks though. 

[SirEdger]

1 hour ago, rovert said:

I was going to comment a few days ago about your tweet about Karrion Kross on Raw but the reply function wasn't working. I got a Direct Message minutes before it from someone in NXT saying it was a Kevin Dunne call. As Dunne hates everything about NXT and wants to "kill" it.

A few days later the NXT TV rebranding news comes out.

Regardless of the politics, NXT TV has some very ugly graphics and music choices. And the yelling by the announcers needs to end.

That certainly will not ease the profound disdain that Papa H has towards Kevin Dunn.

[Rah]

So the reboot is incoming and it's all big men slapping meat. "No more midgets" is quite the phrase.

 

Quote

Dave says HHH and HBK did not pick the NXT cuts. Vince, Prichard and Laurenaitis did. NXT lost the war and they're going to change, back toward an older style of development. Big guys, young guys.

there are divisive opinions about wrestling among the people in WWE and this is who has Vince's ear this week. They're going back to pre-fighting AEW, pre-"Let's out indie the indies" NXT, Dave says the Curtis Axel era of NXT.

Dave was given exact wording, doesn't say from who but seems like a company source or memo. Reads it off. "No more midgets. No one starting in their 30s. They want people who can be box office attractions and main characters."

Dave also thinks we haven't seen the last of the cuts. When Bryan finishes off talk of this week's releases, he says he hopes that's it when it comes to cuts, Dave says "I doubt it's it. Everyone is kinda talking like it's not going to be it."

Sourced from here:

 

[FMKK]

Yeah this feels like mega political manoeuvres against HHH as much as anything. I would have assumed Bruce but Rovert is saying Dunne and that’s believable. The reality is that NXT is a failing brand and going head to head with AEW only exposed the cracks that were already long since set in imo. 
 

I’m genuinely more interested in seeing what the new version of it looks like than watching the current shite. If it were me, Samoa Joe wins the belt, transitions it to Odyssey Jones and he squashes all the remaining old guys to write them off as top players while they try to find their next Batista or whoever to beat him. But even with a roster full of muscle guys, I don’t trust 2021 Vince to actually get anyone over.

[Robert S]

The "No one starting in their 30s." part is not the worst idea for something that is considered to be a developmental league. If they sign older, experienced people, either put them straight on the main roster or put them through a couple of weeks long PC-crash-course for some details how they want their wrestlers to work. If veterans can't deal with that, they are probably just not good enough.

Also: finally someone found Kona Reeves contact info.

[NintendoLogic]

Looks like I called it and brother KawadaSmile's going to get the return to FCW-style developmental he's been yearning for. Be careful what you wish for, bubba. I will say that if it means an end to all the CrossFit bullshit they do at the PC that wrecks people's knees and shoulders, that'll be a step in the right direction.

[Matt D]

FCW only ever worked because Dusty was on commentary.

[KawadaSmile]

31 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

Looks like I called it and brother KawadaSmile's going to get the return to FCW-style developmental he's been yearning for. Be careful what you wish for, bubba. I will say that if it means an end to all the CrossFit bullshit they do at the PC that wrecks people's knees and shoulders, that'll be a step in the right direction.

Oh, FCW was far from perfect, but it sure beats whatever has become of NXT lately, specially in concept. I mean, we all have discussed how the PC just didn't create homegrown stars. How worse can this new rebranding be?

[strobogo]

It's lol seeing HHH's baby be held in such contempt but really AEW ate its lunch as the super indie with high production values so NXT turning into something that AEW can't really do does make sense to a degree. It's not like they still can't poach indie guys whenever, just puut them straight to the main roster instead of toil around in NXT for 3-4 years.

[Strummer]

As already mentioned they still have a bunch of big guys on the main roster that they haven't been able to make stars so even with NXT now being about muscleheads I don't think it's guaranteed anything really changes

[Boss Rock]

AEW has also proven that smaller wrestlers can be stars.

[DMJ]

It definitely strikes me that Vince/Prichard/Dunn's argument that "The problem is these guys are just too small" as particularly funny when, whether one believes they're good/bad/lazy/lost a step, there have been any number of people with decent enough size that the WWE has failed to use properly. 

They just released Bray Wyatt and Braun Strowman. Obviously, one could argue that Bray's 8-year run (just as the Bray Wyatt character, not counting Husky Harris) was about as long a run as anyone should/could expect, but it still does kinda feel like a missed opportunity to create a star that could've lasted twice as long. Strowman had 6 years but, considering what he could've been, it doesn't seem like they maximized his potential. 

Nakamura might not be a giant, but when he first came to the company, he was red hot. Plus, at 6'2'', its not like he looked particularly small against guys like Orton, Cena (6'1''), etc. In hindsight, after the reaction he got in his first NXT match, they should've pulled him up to the main show immediately.

Not going to defend what eventually came to light about him, but Velveteen Dream is another guy they let die on the vine. Had size. Had charisma. Had a unique gimmick. Could work well enough to be on TV and continue to progress on a touring brand at the time. Doctors need 7+ years in training, wrestlers don't. Big Cass is another one who obviously had some issues going on but, again, him and Enzo were the type of team that they could've run with for years and years...but decided to split up within 12-15 months of being called up.

Karrion Cross got called up to job to Jeff Hardy this summer. Even if the storyline is that he's going to become a threat once he's reunited with Scarlet, the first impression is that he's not really a threat/top guy. 

Is Retribution still around? I don't watch the weekly shows. Aren't there big guys in that group like Dijakovic? They gave them stupid masks and stupid names. DOA.

I'm of the mind that Keith Lee is getting released sooner than later. I'd be shocked if they do anything with him. 

Austin Theory is 6'1, shredded, and handsome but unless they've magically found a great gimmick/personality for him, he's a midcarder at best.

Elias has size and even got his gimmick over a bit. Unfortunately, the gimmick is 1-dimensional and no longer remotely fresh.

The Sons of Anarchy guys had/have size, but again, lame 1-dimensional biker gimmicks that we've seen before being played by guys that have no actual charisma, personality, or unique style.

Otis, while short, has a unique look, legit credentials, charisma, and had a great storyline with Mandy Rose. They even gave him the MITB...before doing so little with him that they gave the briefcase to Miz instead because they couldn't figure out a way to use Otis even nominally for months and months. Oh, and they released his tag partner, who had size and some potential, without even really giving him a chance. 

 

The biggest success stories out of NXT, off the top of my head and just thinking of the men, were Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, and Finn Balor and, let's be honest, these three came into NXT already experienced, with sizable fan bases, and, whether their your cup of tea or not, styles and moves and personalities that made them stand out.

At a certain point, you can't just blame the size of the bat when you're batting average over the past year is well below .200. Especially when you have access to bats of all shapes and sizes. 

 

 

[Jmare007]

I kinda read this as Vince, Bruce, Dunn giving up on trying to compete with AEW and their core fanbase and trying to present something different. Of course it could end up being a lame product as always but I understand trying to change course and stop being WWE's Super Indy and revert back to what Vince has always perceived as the way to go.

They are not going to be better than AEW at presenting athletic, smaller and high workrate guys anyways. The bigger problem is them being dumb enough to still think those type of wrestlers don't draw. If they get the chance of signing one with experience, they should just use him in the main roster and treat him/her like a legit talent.

[Jmare007]

Also, the Brand still draws for big events.

Maybe WWE's future is just booking big supercards 3 times a year (RR, WM and Sumemrslam).

[KawadaSmile]

The problem isn't even that they don't think smaller wrestlers can't draw or aren't worth a push. Rey Mysterio, Eddie, [REDACTED] and others are on the "smaller" side of the scale and have been pushed fairly strong to the top. Cole is obviously seen as a valuable asset, but he never should have been pushed the way he was. 

There was this match of his against Keith Lee that encapsulates the problem well: he was *dominating* Lee early on with headlocks. Not even in a "speed vs strength" match, but flat-out slowing the match down. In fact, most of the match was worked 50/50 despite the gigantic size disparity. He was booked to be something he's not, and I think this is something that happened to other wrestlers there.

 

Also, why the fuck did we have Bobby Roode and Drew McIntyre title reigns? Or even Nakamura? What purpose did those reigns serve? Who are you appealing to with Robert Roode? Couldn't Drew just go straight to the main roster? 

[Jmare007]

42 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

The problem isn't even that they don't think smaller wrestlers can't draw or aren't worth a push. Rey Mysterio, Eddie, [REDACTED] and others are on the "smaller" side of the scale and have been pushed fairly strong to the top. Cole is obviously seen as a valuable asset, but he never should have been pushed the way he was. 

There was this match of his against Keith Lee that encapsulates the problem well: he was *dominating* Lee early on with headlocks. Not even in a "speed vs strength" match, but flat-out slowing the match down. In fact, most of the match was worked 50/50 despite the gigantic size disparity. He was booked to be something he's not, and I think this is something that happened to other wrestlers there. 

 

Also, why the fuck did we have Bobby Roode and Drew McIntyre title reigns? Or even Nakamura? What purpose did those reigns serve? Who are you appealing to with Robert Roode? Couldn't Drew just go straight to the main roster? 

One of the most baffling things about current WWE narratives and culture is that within the company they think they have to teach people to "work differently" than the indys. When the fact is that for half a decade (or more), most of the main roster works more "indy style" than anything else. The exception being bigger/hoss people and even still, there's a couple of them that still do much more than what we are used to being "WWE style". I don't see any particular big changes to 99% of the people that went through the PC for an extended period of time when it comes to the way they work.

Regarding the last question. The main reason had to be HHH wanting to have the new/cool signing as his champ so he could continue to run his Super Indy promotion and be praised for it.