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flyonthewall2983

Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

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44 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Most of the biggest issues are on the RAW side of things. On SD they seem to be having a storyline for Naomi (please let her join The Bloodline) and Liv is getting featured more often. They still have Tegan and Shotzi, that while not featured constantly, still got big wins.

Bianca, despite their Summerslam blunder, is still very fucking over, which is good if they are planning on continuing that Becky feud.

As for the rest... bad timing and bad luck. I don't mind the Rhea/Cross pairing, but what a surprise that the two last people Charlotte was feuding with vanished from the title picture...

Is this the Tegan and Shotzi that have won like three non-title matches against the tag champions and then disappeared never to be seen again instead of getting a title match? And I don't know how many times we've been hearing that Naomi is about to get a push. Reality is that if they saw something in her, she would have been pushed ages ago. It's also a reality that she's an average wrestler a best. And this is before we even get into the debacle that was the Becky and Bianca Summerslam booking. 

Raw and Blue Raw both suck.

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4 minutes ago, FMKK said:

How they handle Gable Steveson will be so instructive about the apparent new direction for this company. In the old days, if you get an Olympic wrestler you push him to the moon immediately and if it were me, I would pair him up with a good manager and give him the Okada push to get the belt off Lashley. But I can easily see a world where this guy does three years of hip toss class and then is yucking it up on MizTV in an odd couple tag team with fucking Drake Maverick or something.

He's a guy you'd think would be can't-miss but they sure miss a lot these days.

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9 minutes ago, FMKK said:

And I don't know how many times we've been hearing that Naomi is about to get a push. Reality is that if they saw something in her, she would have been pushed ages ago. It's also a reality that she's an average wrestler a best. 

I don't know, bubba. I haven't thought about Naomi getting a push in quite some time if I'm being honest, and I'm a fan. I mentioned her because they "seem" to have a storyline addressing the fact that she's been overlooked by management. They could get her going somewhere by acknowledging the Tribal Chief.

And truth be told, even if she is not the greatest (although I do think she's good), people still care about her despite the fact the Fed never really did. She is popular, why not use that to write an engaging story? Honestly, dropping the title to fucking Nattie Neidhart... 

 

As for Tegan and Shotzi, it does suck that they haven't got a title shot. Specially when Rhea/Nikki got that opportunity by doing way less. The issue here, to me, is not who is available, but how they are using their pieces.

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22 minutes ago, FMKK said:

How they handle Gable Steveson will be so instructive about the apparent new direction for this company. In the old days, if you get an Olympic wrestler you push him to the moon immediately and if it were me, I would pair him up with a good manager and give him the Okada push to get the belt off Lashley. But I can easily see a world where this guy does three years of hip toss class and then is yucking it up on MizTV in an odd couple tag team with fucking Drake Maverick or something.

They got some amateur wrestlers with nice credentials (one is undefeated in the NCAA and the other was in the Olympic trials) on NXT, and honestly, I'd do the same. Give Stevenson someone like Bivens (who is also managing those guys at NXT) and just go for it.

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Bivens is a good shout for Steveson's manager. I was thinking MVP turning on Lashley but this is probably better.

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1 hour ago, KawadaSmile said:

Mercedes KV is All Elite

Make it happen, I don't give a fuck. I totally plead the cognitive dissonance. 

And I mean, there's something to be said about some kind of hypocrisy going on with some people with really stupid opinions. Just picture if social medias existed in the 80's and 90's.I swear at least half of the classic workers of that era would get cancelled. You don't think those great southern workers for instance would not say stupid racist shit ? The sex with underage groupies (aka "rats"), the bullying in the locker rooms (aka "ribs"), the awful political stances. Tons of guys from that period most probably did stuff a lot worse than say, Austin Aries, who's just a douchebag with dumb opinions. But they are still looked at as legends.

Ignorance is indeed bliss. Shut the fuck up and wrestle.

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23 minutes ago, El-P said:

Just picture if social medias existed in the 80's and 90's.I swear at least half of the classic workers of that era would get cancelled.

You say that as if it would be a bad thing.

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10 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

You say that as if it would be a bad thing.

Well, I don't really care, pro-wrestling is better now anyway. 

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Long interview with Jonathan Coachman revealing that he was sabotaged by the insecure Corey Graves and demoted because he had to take certain weeks off for golf, which the company was informed about from the beginning and agreed to. 

I won't sit here and say Coach was any great shakes, but this really puts Graves and WWE in a bad light.

Not that any of this should come as a surprise, because it doesn't.

https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/jonathan-coachman-explains-why-he-left-wwe-says-corey-graves-didn-t-want-him-there 

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5 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Honestly, dropping the title to fucking Nattie Neidhart...

I don't know if this will be a minority opinion here or not. I'm not sure which direction the overall PWO opinions lean in regards to either Nattie or Trish Stratus but, I have them firmly both in the "were painfully average for a really long time & then people just pretended they were good" category. I don't know if I have ever seen Nattie do anything good ever. At least Trish was a great bumper & in some pretty memorable angles.

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I know Nattie is a PWO punching bag, but she does have a great rep backstage and great respect from her peers, which is not something to ignore. Then again, so does Randy Orton.<_<

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16 minutes ago, C.S. said:

Long interview with Jonathan Coachman revealing that he was sabotaged by the insecure Corey Graves and demoted because he had to take certain weeks off for golf, which the company was informed about from the beginning and agreed to. 

I won't sit here and say Coach was any great shakes, but this really puts Graves and WWE in a bad light.

Not that any of this should come as a surprise, because it doesn't.

https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/jonathan-coachman-explains-why-he-left-wwe-says-corey-graves-didn-t-want-him-there 

 

Shocked that someone who was openly having an affair and rubbing his wife's face in it is an insecure shithead (/sarcasm).

I always heard grumblings around here that he was a shithead when he was Sterling James Keenan on the indies here, but I figured it was just sour grapes over him making it to WWE.  The more that comes out about him the more I realize that wasn't the case. 

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9 minutes ago, Coffey said:

I don't know if this will be a minority opinion here or not. I'm not sure which direction the overall PWO opinions lean in regards to either Nattie or Trish Stratus but, I have them firmly both in the "were painfully average for a really long time & then people just pretended they were good" category. I don't know if I have ever seen Nattie do anything good ever. At least Trish was a great bumper & in some pretty memorable angles.

I would posit Trish gets more props from the hardcores because she was very Not Good when she started, but put in the work and improved to a decent enough level which was almost unheard of in the Divas Era. She wasn't an amazing worker but she came off like second coming of Toyota compared to all the bikini models she had to work with. 

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2 hours ago, Coffey said:

I don't know if this will be a minority opinion here or not. I'm not sure which direction the overall PWO opinions lean in regards to either Nattie or Trish Stratus but, I have them firmly both in the "were painfully average for a really long time & then people just pretended they were good" category. I don't know if I have ever seen Nattie do anything good ever. At least Trish was a great bumper & in some pretty memorable angles.

Nattie is there if you want to have a by-the-numbers match for someone with nearly zero experience. That's the praise I'm able to give her. TAMINA is outshining her in those tag matches, think about that.

2 hours ago, El-P said:

I know Nattie is a PWO punching bag, but she does have a great rep backstage and great respect from her peers, which is not something to ignore. Then again, so does Randy Orton.<_<

I am aware that she is a respectable figure backstage, and good for her. She's almost universally praised as this "big sis" figure, and overall she seems like a nice lady. But man... in-ring I just don't have time for her.

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Trish was also a great promo and used to do excellent character work, and would get over angles really effectively. I struggle to think of a single thing Nattie does that isn't painfully average.

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In ring, not much, but that probably only proves more how important her backstage role is. In a company where everyone is on edge and stressed out having a Nattie on the roster is probably the only thing preventing people who lean on her from having a breakdown.

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Truthfully I thought Trish was okay as a talker. But... she had to recite a lot of corny Brian Gewirtz dialogue. She was above average by that standard. I would say she, E and C and Angle were the best at Gewirtz dialogue. And Rock of course.

interesting how she would have been at a more traditional wrestling promo

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I don't remember if she did a lot of actual promos during this, but the Jericho-Trish-Christian angle they ran in 2004 was great stuff and she was fantastic in both in-ring spots and backstage segments. I thought she clearly carried that feud; the guys had good matches, but she was the one elevated the feud to another level. 

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Trish eventually developed into an excellent actress by pro wrestling standards. If you compare what she became to what she was like when she started in 2000, it's like night and day. It certainly puts the lie to the notion that charisma can't be taught.

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Pretty sure I remember Trish said she took acting or improv classes during that time.

she was a huge Mad TV fan and based her heel character on a Nicole Sullivan character from the show

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8 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

I am aware that she is a respectable figure backstage, and good for her. She's almost universally praised as this "big sis" figure, and overall she seems like a nice lady. But man... in-ring I just don't have time for her.

Dare I say her sister already outshines her on social media & if she were brought to TV, would outshine her there as well. Wouldn't even have to wrestle. 

@MoS I remember genuinely liking her little run with big Vis too. When he ordered one whole side of the menu "that's me dawg." I think it led to the World's Largest Love Machine stuff. :lol:

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I'm a bit puzzled by the vitriol Nattie inspires in some quarters. She seems like a pleasant person, she's a perfectly acceptable in-ring technician, and she hasn't received a serious push in ages (let's be real, the women's tag titles became jokes once the IIconics won them).

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She's not amazing or anything, but Natalya is fine as a wrestler imo. Her match with AJ Lee on Main Event is a highlight of that era of the women's division, and she's had a lot of matches since then which I've liked.

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