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flyonthewall2983

Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

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I offer in mitigation that the distance between the AJPW style and Hansen's transgressions is quite small, while Nia's actions were a thousand miles from what was expected of her.

I also admit I hadn't heard some of those stories, so thanks to you all.

Did Hansen claim self-defence in the Vader Eyeball Incident? 

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Hansen wasn't just dangerous to his opponents. He also regularly put the fans in danger with his crowd brawling and throwing of chairs. On the same show where he broke Kobashi's arm with a bullrope, he knocked over an old lady in the stands on the way to the ring. In his book, he readily admits that a lot of what he did back then wouldn't fly today because of the threat of lawsuits. He also said that the only time Baba ever yelled at him was when he threw chairs into the crowd even after being told to stop. What it really boils down to is that it was a different world back then and Hansen's actions weren't as far outside the bounds of acceptable behavior as Nia's today. Also, being reckless in the ring is a lot easier to overlook when you're responsible for some of the greatest matches of all time. Needless to say, Nia's output on that front isn't nearly as impressive. The most her defenders can point to is a couple of decent matches with Ronda Rousey, who it was basically impossible to have bad matches with.

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I can't say I've seen a lot of Nia over the last few years, but Marty feels pretty strongly about this and I'd begrudgingly look at non-Rousey match or two if he wanted me to.

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Honestly it's all irrelevant anyway : she doesn't want work to work elsewhere.

She wasn't good when she started, only got worse with time, never was a draw, never much over despite being protected forever, never was a good promo and had a rep for having an ego. Apart from "She's big and she was in WWE", she has exactly jackshit going for her.

It's interesting how your social status, including in a micro-society like the landscape of pro-wrestling, gives you more when you already are privileged (yes, she *was* privileged in WWE because of her size and her family ascendance) even when it comes down to just discussion on a pro-wrestling board.

I mean, Ember Moon has been released and she would bring about a hundred times the value (actually having matches people want to see, help and teach younger workers, maybe even get up to a good spot for herself as she had a lot going for her when she showed up in NXT at first). Ditto Taya Valkyrie.

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How did we go from Nia Jax being a bad wrestler that never got any better & had no reason to be in pro wrestling to begin with, to somehow turning that into trying to shit on one of the greatest pro wrestlers in history? LMFAO.

Talk about whataboutism. 

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17 minutes ago, Coffey said:

How did we go from Nia Jax being a bad wrestler that never got any better & had no reason to be in pro wrestling to begin with, to somehow turning that into trying to shit on one of the greatest pro wrestlers in history? LMFAO.

Nia Jaxx : I'm not gonna do pro-wrestling outside of WWE

Pro-wrestling board : AEW should not sign her. She sucks

Also pro-wrestling-board : AEW could sign her, there's some potential

Also pro-wrestling board : AEW better not sign her. She sucks and she's dangerous

Also pro-wrestling board : Stan Hansen was dangerous too. How is that different ? 

Nia Jaxx : As I said, I'm not gonna do pro-wrestling outside of WWE. Like, I'm not gonna

Pro-wrestling board discussions. :lol:

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All  I said is if the desire was there, I would think QT and Dustin could probably turn Nia into something resembling a decent pro wrestler but as stated she doesn't want to so it's a moot point. 

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9 hours ago, Coffey said:

How did we go from Nia Jax being a bad wrestler that never got any better & had no reason to be in pro wrestling to begin with, to somehow turning that into trying to shit on one of the greatest pro wrestlers in history? LMFAO.

Talk about whataboutism. 

Because the talk wasn’t about Hansen’s skill, but his recklessness. 
 

The general consensus is that if a wrestler is good in-ring, shit gets overlooked, but they aren’t mutually exclusive. Nobody said that because he was reckless, he sucked. It was that he was reckless. More like the other side of the coin than shitting on him. 

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Jax aside, I think the point being discussed is how fans will dismiss reckless behavior from " great" performers and also shit on reckless behavior from " bad" performers.  It's the whole thing where fans praise stiff work from their favs and bitch about stiff work from the wrestlers who aren't " good workers".

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I think you'll find that in any form of entertainment. People put up with Axl Rose's diva and erratic behavior because the performances were worth it. But not so much for the singer for Puddle of Mudd. 

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Jimmy Johnson once cut a backup linebacker for falling asleep during a team meeting. He said that if Troy Aikman did the same thing, he'd go over and whisper "Wake up, Troy." That's how it works in any field. The more you bring to the table, the more slack you get. If you suck in the ring and aren't a draw, you should at least be safe to work with. Being shitty and unsafe is the worst of both worlds.

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On 11/30/2021 at 10:58 AM, Superstar Sleeze said:

Her match with Rousey was terrific and grossly underrated. Her work around WrestleMania against Tamina was some of the best Mid-South Hoss Battles I have seen in a while. I loved her shoot-style shit against Charlotte. Her run in the Men's Royal Rumble was super fun years back. Nia Jax trucking fools when it was safe was super fun. Another underrated aspect of Nia Jax is her verbal selling. She was one of the best verbal sellers, male or female in recent memory. It is not even the my hole stuff which was fun. Her last appearance when Shayna "broke her arm" is some of the most compelling acting I have seen a wrestler do in a long time. It really made the viewer feel uncomfortable at what was about to happen and feel sympathy for her. It was really strong. 

I'd agree. My personal favorite matches were always her ones against Asuka, both in NXT and RAW. I also surprisingly really enjoyed her series of matches with Alexa. 

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I actually liked most of Nia's stuff to be pretty honest. That powerbomb/spinebuster she was doing lately was so fucking sick and more people should use it. However she was a bit too happy about the chance of bouncing people off the mat with that slam, which gives strength to the "unsafe" argument.

Nia and Shayna as the true Miracle Violence Connection will always have a place in my heart, tho.

 

Also, didn't Hansen basically break Kobashi's face much like Nia broke Becky's? There are even more parallels between them now!!

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It's probably not a coincidence that Nia's best matches tended to be against people not likely to put up with her shit and give a receipt if things got to snug. Notice how quickly she calmed down when Charlotte got pissed and started swinging when they had their tiff. 

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1 hour ago, sek69 said:

It's probably not a coincidence that Nia's best matches tended to be against people not likely to put up with her shit and give a receipt if things got to snug. Notice how quickly she calmed down when Charlotte got pissed and started swinging when they had their tiff. 

While your point is correct, in that case it was the opposite. Charlotte was the one who started with unprofessional conduct, no-selling stuff, slapping her in the face and being a nuisance, and got hit with a 1-2.

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20 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

I actually liked most of Nia's stuff to be pretty honest.

No offense bubba, but you also like Jinder Mahal, Eva Marie, and Naomichi Marufuji, so that's not saying much.

Also, let's not rewrite history. Nia was the one who sent the Charlotte match off the rails with this bullshit.

Charlotte had every right to go off on her after that.

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1 hour ago, NintendoLogic said:

No offense bubba, but you also like Jinder Mahal, Eva Marie, and Naomichi Marufuji, so that's not saying much.

One of these names is not like the others...

But yeah, Charlotte had the right to be pissed. That's total incompetence. 

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3 hours ago, El-P said:

One of these names is not like the others...

But yeah, Charlotte had the right to be pissed. That's total incompetence. 

Count me among the Marufuji fans, ha.

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Yeah I regret introducing the comparison to Stan Hansen. It was a different time and there is a lot of speculation surrounding it. I am sorry. 

The point I really want to drive home was I like when people truck people, smash people, work snug, but I want them to be safe. That is a very thin line. Nia Jax clearly went over it. I think my disconnect is that it seems some people think Nia Jax is a shitty wrestler plus a dangerous worker. I think it is a completely justifiable conclusion to say Nia Jax is a bad wrestler because she is unsafe. What confuses me is the people who say even if you take away all the injuries she causes, she still sucks. Thats where I am confounded and feel like I am watching a different Nia Jax than everyone else, but I appreciate the three or so people that spoke up that enjoy some matches of Nia's. I really enjoyed her offense, her commitment to wrestling large (timing her bumps) and her verbal selling.  

I am happy that a lot of the Nia detractors laid out their arguments against her so that when I do go back and review her matches in the next 5 years or so, I know what to be on the lookout for when I give her matches a keener eye. For instance, I know I really liked those Charlotte matches because how shoot-y they felt but I didnt know what started it because I am always working when I watch RAW and so when I picked my head up it was already uncooperative and awesome. I watched the rest of the match without rewinding. Just some insight also how I watch 2021 wrestling. 

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He continued:  Vince in the meeting said, ‘Now you’re going to show me what you got.  Let me get some volunteers.’  A few people put their hands up.  Sheamus gets up and walks to the front.  He takes initiative.  He doesn’t wait for someone to say yes.  He takes initiative and Vince likes that.  That’s an Alpha move.  Wade Barrett gets up next.  We have an Englishman and an Irishman.  This should be a really easy promo for these guys to cut.  Vince said, “I’m going to give you a premise.  You’re a dog and you’re a dog.  Now make me want to watch you fight.’  My heart stops and I’m not even the one doing it.  You can feel the panic.  Everyone got tight.  There was so much tension.  You can see sweat beads all over Wade Barrett’s forehead.  Sheamus is stone quiet.  He doesn’t move. He looks like one of the English soldiers outside the palace.  They’re frozen.  30 seconds go by.  Not a sound.  45 seconds go by, nothing.  I’m dying.  I want to jump up and say, ‘Stop.’  It’s like watching a murder.  A minute goes by.  Sheamus says by accident out loud, ‘I think I’m having an out of body experience’, and no one laughs because they can’t believe that it just came out of his mouth.  Wade takes the first step.  He growls, and as soon as he growls, and Vince gets up and yells, ‘Not an actual f*cking dog.  Son of a b*tch.’ and he storms out of the room.  

Fantastic. 

 

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