Matches That Changed Wrestling

[paul sosnowski]

Savage & Poffo put Ricky Morton through a table a year earlier (6/25/84)

And I'm kinda surprised no one has mention Taker-Foley HIAC yet

[gordi]

Just in case anybody didn't get my joke about WM III being the first time anyone slammed Andre... This video is pretty damned interesting:

A nice reminder to NEVER believe the official WWE company line when it comes to pro wrestling history!

[El-P]

1 minute ago, paul sosnowski said:

And I'm kinda surprised no one has mention Taker-Foley HIAC yet

Apart from the fact every HITC match had to have a stupid bump from the top of the cage, it really did not change pro-wrestling on a large scale I don't think. Jumping off cages was nothing new. It took it to ridiculous and stupid lenghts, but I don't think it had much on an influence in pro-wrestling as a whole. TLC was much more influencial, because ladder matches with huge stunts became a go-to everywhere in american wrestling after that point. HITC stayed a very WWEesque gimmick only and was used only a few times.

[ohtani's jacket]

I don't know about changing wrestling as a whole, but I think there are certain matches that changed promotions.

The Funks vs. The Sheik, Choshu/Yatsu vs. Jumbo/Tenryu, Jumbo vs. Tenyu, and Misawa vs. Jumbo had a huge impact on All Japan Pro-Wrestling, for example. 

Antonio Inoki vs. Strong Kobayashi paved the way for native vs. native. Inoki vs. Ruska was arguably as important as Inoki vs. Ali. Choshu getting hot completely changed the wrestling landscape in the early 80s. 

The first ladder match between Michaels and Ramon always felt influential to me. The Foley vs. Austin match from '98 provided the template for Attitude Era brawls. I am sure there is a match after that which swung the promotion towards more workrate oriented matches (Angle vs. Benoit?)

There was a point where All Japan Women completely broke away from the formula set by Beauty Pair vs. Black Pair and Crush Girls vs. Dump's Army. It happened around the time that they couldn't find new idols to replace the Crush Girls and pushed the Bull vs. Aja feud instead. But the change really happened when the women started having singles matches against each other that were treated as seriously as men's matches.

The UWF having clean finishes was a game changer. I don't know which match you'd point to. Perhaps the Maeda vs. Takada match from the end of 1988. I think Pancrase was influential on RINGS and Kingdom, which in term was influential on PRIDE. Most people would argue that PRIDE affected the business in a bad way, though.

Lucha is an interesting one. I am sure there is some Pena booked stuff that changed the business in the early 90s. There is a lot of evidence in lucha of workers being influenced by Japanese and American wrestling over time.

[El-P]

3 hours ago, Coffey said:

On the other end of the spectrum, The Undertaker Vs. Shawn Michaels, both of their Wrestlemania matches. I think a lot of the current false finish wrestling, having to hit your finish like four or five times to win, became super popular because of them.

I believe I coined the term Self Conscious Epic about Cena vs CM Punk in 2011 (SummerSlam, right ?), but these two matches certainly were the template. I remember not being nearly as hot as everyone else on those two matches back then, but I was much more removed from current pro-wrestling at that point too. I wonder how I would enjoy them today... I also believe they were more Michaels than Taker, although they always worked well together.

Speaking of which...

"Sorry I love you". For the better and the worse.

[Boss Rock]

2 hours ago, MoS said:

This is more of a booking decision than a match per se: as was touched upon elsewhere, Royal Rumbles 2014 and 2015, cuz they made WWE feel that the only way to get heat in the modern era is to make the promotion the heel and to book every face as an underdog fighting against the unfair system. 

I"m convinced Bryan broke Vince.

[Boss Rock]

The Fujinami-Ryuma Go matches to me almost set the table for Dynamite-Tiger Mask even if they're more mat-based.

[sek69]

Tiger Mask/Dynamite might be the most influential match of all time. Not only was it responsible for creating junior style in Japan, pretty much the entire current  generation of wrestlers across the world grew up basing themselves either on that match directly or on wrestlers who were influenced by it. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid didn't create the juniors style, but it's hard to imagine it being as popular without the Tiger Mask phenomenon. 

[El-P]

10 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Tiger Mask/Dynamite might be the most influential match of all time. Not only was it responsible for creating junior style in Japan, pretty much the entire current  generation of wrestlers across the world grew up basing themselves either on that match directly or on wrestlers who were influenced by it. 

Agreed. When I mentioned Eddie vs Dean earlier on, it was in reference of the contemporary US scene. And Eddie vs Dean, like it's been said, is basically an upgraded (barely, honestly) version of Tiger Mask vs Dynamite. When you realize Tiger Mask ended up being part of the first UWF and helped creating japanese shoots-style, which basically also leads to more or less to MMA, Satoru Sayama may be considered the most important pro-wrestler ever (of the modern era, meaning the last 40 years).

[FMKK]

Not in terms of influencing other workers but in terms of influencing the business, I think Kenny Omega vs Chris Jericho at Wrestle Kingdom sets in place a lot of things including Omega's star rising in the West, Jericho getting the taste for the creative freedom of non-Vince McMahon wrestling and ultimately the creation of WWE's first competition in 20 years. There were a lot of other stops on the road to get to AEW but this seems like a particularly pivotal one looking back.

Another modern one is Sasha Banks vs Bayley in Brooklyn, 2015. For all the shoehorned Stephanie McMahon-endorsed first-time-ever milestones we've had over the last few years, this stands out at the most clear display that women could get over as serious pushed acts in the WWE realm.

[El-P]

10 minutes ago, FMKK said:

Not in terms of influencing other workers but in terms of influencing the business, I think Kenny Omega vs Chris Jericho at Wrestle Kingdom sets in place a lot of things including Omega's star rising in the West, Jericho getting the taste for the creative freedom of non-Vince McMahon wrestling and ultimately the creation of WWE's first competition in 20 years. There were a lot of other stops on the road to get to AEW but this seems like a particularly pivotal one looking back.

Well, Meltz says that basically, this is the match that convinced Tony Khan that something could be done in the United States, so yeah. May be the most important match of the last 20 years when all is said and done.

[ragemaster]

Rey Mysterio vs Juventud Guerrera/Psicosis in ECW, was the next Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid. 

[brockobama]

Came here to post Maeda kicking Choshu's face apart so I'm glad it was already brought up. Alongside Bret vs Austin (which solidified Austin as a major star, pushed the company fully into the Attitude Era, paved the way for their greatest successes, and eventually allowed them to virtually monopolize the American industry for two decades), I think it's probably the most influential match in anything approaching the modern era.

As for something a little more recent, my friends and I were just talking about Lucha Underground's influence again. I definitely don't think there's such a prominent place for luchadors on the American indies (or the top level American promotions, for that matter) these days without that show. What's more I think that model of season-based, production-heavy, dramatic storytelling-driven wrestling is only going to become more and more prevalent as the 2020s roll on. Things like the Broken Hardy shit or whatever it is WWE is doing these days is spreading it out further but LU is where I'd say it first caught hold with any meaningful audience. 

I was thinking about the UK scene too, something that was real hot there for a minute and served to get a few big names out there, but I'm not sure if it would really count. It allowed for (or necessitated, considering who you are) the creation of NXT UK, the first foray into the worldwide mini-brand expansion WWE's been working toward for 15 or 20 years, but the jury's still out on how well that or any other offshoots are going to do. If you wanted a single match that kicked it all off, I'd say the PROGRESS vs REGRESSION eight man tag from September 2014.

[C.S.]

The Ladder Match between Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon at WrestleMania X.

Was it the first ladder match? No. (Bret used to do them in Calgary.) It wasn't even in the first ladder match in WWE. (Bret did one earlier at a house show with Shawn.) But it's the one that put the stipulation on the map.

From there, we got more Ladder Matches, with the concept eventually "evolving" into TLC, Money in the Bank, etc. 

It may be something everyone is sick of at this point, but it undeniably changed the business.

[Loss]

I can't argue that pick either.

[Loss]

I keep thinking about Flair vs Race at Starrcade '83, but I don't know that anything about the match changed wrestling. It's more that the show changed wrestling and that happened to be the main event. But within a month of that show, Vince started locking up talent, including Hogan, and the War of '84 that forever altered the American wrestling landscape was on. 

[Loss]

2 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid didn't create the juniors style, but it's hard to imagine it being as popular without the Tiger Mask phenomenon. 

Thought about this one but I couldn't point to the specific match in the series that had the most impact. Maybe the 2/3 falls one at the end?

[kas]

 

 

 

1

2 hours ago, FMKK said:

Not in terms of influencing other workers but in terms of influencing the business, I think Kenny Omega vs Chris Jericho at Wrestle Kingdom sets in place a lot of things including Omega's star rising in the West, Jericho getting the taste for the creative freedom of non-Vince McMahon wrestling and ultimately the creation of WWE's first competition in 20 years. There were a lot of other stops on the road to get to AEW but this seems like a particularly pivotal one looking back.

Omega vs Jericho is a good choice, but I'd go a year earlier and say Omega vs Okada at WK11 was more important. That match basically started New Japan's US expansion and considerably raised the profile of both Okada and Omega in the US (Okada is probably their most popular wrestler outside of Japan), to the point where they were able to sell out Long Beach in 2017 within hours of the tickets being released. Not to mention that people would not stop talking about this match and their series in general, and is to this generation what I imagine the Flair/Steamboat or Misawa/Kobashi series' were to their generations.

[NintendoLogic]

I'm inclined to say that Hardys vs. Edge/Christian at No Mercy was at least as influential as HBK/Ramon. In addition to raising the bar for death-defying spots, it really marked the beginning of sticking as many guys as possible in a ladder match so there was never a break in the action.

[sek69]

45 minutes ago, Loss said:

I keep thinking about Flair vs Race at Starrcade '83, but I don't know that anything about the match changed wrestling. It's more that the show changed wrestling and that happened to be the main event. But within a month of that show, Vince started locking up talent, including Hogan, and the War of '84 that forever altered the American wrestling landscape was on. 

 

It was as if since he couldn't convince Harley to no show and jump to the WWF,  he decided to convince damn near every other main eventer of the time to do so instead.

[Laz]

Some really great suggestions here (even the Omega ones), but one I think should be added to the list is LowKi vs. Christopher Daniels vs. Bryan Danielson. It mained the first ever ROH card, was probably the best Triple Threat match to date, and solidified independent wrestling in the States as something to really watch and follow on its own.

[joeg]

Undertaker vs Mankind HIAC and Mankind vs The Rock I Quit.

There was a line in the sand as to what was an acceptable level of real danger and real violence in a main stream wrestling product. These matches took their shoe and erased that line, then walked way down the beach and drew a whole new line. Sure (fill in the blank of your favorite garbage wrestler) had been doing crazy stupid shit for years, but these matches legitimized crazy stupid dangerous shit to a mainstream American audience and are still considered part of WWE cannon. As such they strongly influenced mainstream style for the following decade or so.

 

The Low Ki vs American Dragon series in the early 2000s.

Between 2001 and 2003, those two faced off over a dozen times in probably a half dozen different indie promotions. It may have been the first time two wrestlers that small (5'9" 175 and 5'7" 165) had been presented as the main event. Nearly two decades later we barely even blink at the notion of someone the size of a JV outside linebacker as a main event pro wrestler.  They didn't just change the game appearance wise, stylistically they were really the first in the US to successfully blend shoot style strikes, catch grappling and throws, cruiserweight style athleticism and dives, and Strong Style psychology. Their early matches were almost cosplaying BattlArts. This became the in-house style of ROH and Evolve. This style also trickled into WWE in recent years as more and more ROH and Evolve guys ended up in WWE.  

 

Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (WM 24), Undertaker (WM 25 and WM 26) 

People complain about the "self conscience epic" style of main even that has taken over the landscape of WWE, NXT, NJPW, and All Japan. The style of match that now seems to dominate the main events of every big show. You know the characteristics- Over dramatic, cartoonish, acting for lack of a better word, multiple false finishes, exaggerated selling for the cheapseats,  potentially dangerous bumps and dives, etc, etc. That style which you may love or hate, all started here with Shawn Michaels and his last few Wrestlemania appearances. 

[Chorros3]

Speaking of Savage-Steamboat at WM III, as someone mentioned earlier, I can’t even begin to wrap my head around the fact that 33 years ago was (at least one of) the first famous instances in which every spot was carefully planned and laid out ahead of time. Sure, for everyone who’s been a fan long enough it’s obvious  that most matches from that era and before had a mostly “on the fly nature” and crowd reading was an important aspect of working; all of which is virtually non existent today. 

Then there’s newly discovered footage out there, like the French catch stuff which I find fascinating, that makes me wonder how many of those intricate spots were carefully slotted in and memorized before hand and how much of what I’m seeing comes from a process based on feeling from the wrestlers themselves. One could argue that there’s pros and cons to both approaches and that they’re used to varying degrees depending on time, place and whoever is working. I’m rambling now, I’m just glad there’s such a wide variety of wrestling out there to enjoy. 

[El-P]

7 hours ago, brockobama said:

As for something a little more recent, my friends and I were just talking about Lucha Underground's influence again. I definitely don't think there's such a prominent place for luchadors on the American indies (or the top level American promotions, for that matter) these days without that show. What's more I think that model of season-based, production-heavy, dramatic storytelling-driven wrestling is only going to become more and more prevalent as the 2020s roll on. Things like the Broken Hardy shit or whatever it is WWE is doing these days is spreading it out further but LU is where I'd say it first caught hold with any meaningful audience. 

Agreed. Not to mention, Lucha Underground is also what brought back a new, updated version of studio wrestling. I don't think there's NWA Powerr without Lucha Underground either.

7 hours ago, C.S. said:

The Ladder Match between Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon at WrestleMania X.

 

7 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

I'm inclined to say that Hardys vs. Edge/Christian at No Mercy was at least as influential as HBK/Ramon. In addition to raising the bar for death-defying spots, it really marked the beginning of sticking as many guys as possible in a ladder match so there was never a break in the action.

Yes and yes. Although I'd say TLC was even more influencial, really.

3 hours ago, joeg said:

Undertaker vs Mankind HIAC and Mankind vs The Rock I Quit.

There was a line in the sand as to what was an acceptable level of real danger and real violence in a main stream wrestling product. These matches took their shoe and erased that line, then walked way down the beach and drew a whole new line. Sure (fill in the blank of your favorite garbage wrestler) had been doing crazy stupid shit for years, but these matches legitimized crazy stupid dangerous shit to a mainstream American audience and are still considered part of WWE cannon. As such they strongly influenced mainstream style for the following decade or so.

And this goes back to ECW, really. The Rock vs Mankind (awful) match being basically a rehash of Shane Douglas vs Cactus Jack.