#SpeakingOut: Industry-wide sexual misconduct (assault/harrassment/grooming/etc) accusations and their repercussions

[sek69]

5 minutes ago, Loss said:

Even in the latter territory days, babyfaces were expected to "take care" of the women on the road so that they would come back. I made the comment to someone before all of this that more than any great matches or changing the landscape post-WCW and ECW, the ultimate legacy of the 2001-present generation might be that they cleaned up wrestling. I was basing that on it seeming to be a more fan friendly business with less scam artists and less wrestlers dying young. I feel pretty stupid for that one. 

I mean, you were right even with all this happening now. I would argue drug use is probably at an all time low, and by and large the current generation has normalized activities other than going to the bar after every show (well maybe not in the UK). Folks used to get mocked for staying in the hotel and playing video games, and now you have people like Xavier Woods making a second career out of it that can carry him after his wrestling days are over. 

In fact I would argue one of the reasons this stands out even more today than it would in the territory days is that it *had* been cleaned up to a large degree. I see tons of promotions interacting with fans on social media, and less treating fans like dumb marks to be fleeced.  I would also argue that probably a big reason a lot of the folks not named did not realize such scummy behavior was going on around them is the belief that it was something that was not a part of wrestling like that anymore.  Things that were exposed in the last week or so was Business As Usual in past eras that most folks in place now don't stand for. 

I get it though, after what happened it's real tempting to just throw your hands up and yell "fuck all of it" and toss the whole industry in the dumpster.  It was my first instinct too, but I have hope that there enough people who are still good who will make sure this is something that gets eliminated.

[El-P]

5 hours ago, sek69 said:

Impact has officially fired Joey Ryan and Dave Crist, and Mike Elgin was suspended.

Well, that's pretty clear-cut. Good.

Also, Ethan Page once again comes off like a really good guy, which is nice to see.

 

[NotJayTabb]

13 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

what the fuck

This has been cleared up as an innocent misunderstanding, where members of the UK PC were playing board games, one of which was Secret Hitler, sounds like mainly crossed wires

 

[Blehschmidt]

9 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

It is. My friend was asking about UK wrestlers and I told him it was probably easier to just ask who wasn't a piece of shit than to name the guilty people. And I wasn't even joking. 

Seriously. From this generation of popular British talent, who's left that hasn't been called out? Pete Dunne, Mark Haskins, Zack Sabre Jr, Mark Andrews, and Flash Morgan Webster?

[NotJayTabb]

Chris Ridgeway, Dave Mastiff, Eddie Dennis, Grizzled Young Veterans, Kip Sabian, Drew Parker, Noam Dar, Rampage Brown...plus loads of guys who aren't as known internationally. Even in NXT UK, you're looking at Devlin, Banks, Ligero and Coffey who've been explicitly caught out, rumours about Seven and Wolfgang, and the rest (so far) seem to be clean. Which is still dreadful, don't get me wrong, but there's still plenty of names who aren't seemingly dreadful.

[El-P]

In others news, Omega & the Bucks are not releasing BTE this week. Apparently they also have deleted the episodes in which Joey Ryan was appearing. I have not checked, but I can tell the "Wrestlers on the road" episode with Ryan is indeed gone. 

[Matt D]

3 hours ago, NotJayTabb said:

This has been cleared up as an innocent misunderstanding, where members of the UK PC were playing board games, one of which was Secret Hitler, sounds like mainly crossed wires

 

Zack Gibson responding to everyone in that thread about board games is pretty wholesome. 

[Tenese Sarwieh]

I've sitting back and soaking everything in. When I was younger my mama always told my brother and I "what's done in the dark will soon come to light" and this is a prime example. While one hand I'm sad that these women and young men had these experiences I'm glad they've gotten the opportunity to tell their truth. Hopefully justice will come swiftly and the garbage will finally be weeded out of wrestling. 

[C.S.]

7 hours ago, NotJayTabb said:

Chris Ridgeway, Dave Mastiff, Eddie Dennis, Grizzled Young Veterans, Kip Sabian, Drew Parker, Noam Dar, Rampage Brown...plus loads of guys who aren't as known internationally. Even in NXT UK, you're looking at Devlin, Banks, Ligero and Coffey who've been explicitly caught out, rumours about Seven and Wolfgang, and the rest (so far) seem to be clean. Which is still dreadful, don't get me wrong, but there's still plenty of names who aren't seemingly dreadful.

You might want to rephrase your post. I've read it three times already and I cannot for the life of me tell whether you mean to imply that "Chris Ridgeway, Dave Mastiff, Eddie Dennis, Grizzled Young Veterans, Kip Sabian, Drew Parker, Noam Dar, Rampage Brown...plus loads of guys who aren't as known internationally" have been involved in sexual assault, harassment, etc. or have not been.

[El-P]

The problem is that it is probably the tip of the iceberg. Those are the stories that are told, not all the stories. We haven't heard from the most proficient female performers and there's probably a good reason for that, sadly. 

I saw a Tweet by RVD who was saying he believes these are about 5% of the stories and that most won't be told. Hopefully it won't stop there, but it will take a whole lot more than this.

The Joey Ryan thing is by far the worst and it's so awful. Apparently everyone in his entourage is shocked as hell. This is a thing with those people, they are very good at moving in the shadows and pretending to be someone other that what they are. This is so awful for everyone involved, really (probably hits me the hardest because I legit enjoyed this guy, so now I feel like I need to take a shower every time I even hear his name, and really thus far it's by far the worst case of all).

[Al]

One of the biggest concerns for me as a fan is going to a local show and not knowing if the local promoter acts ethically towards the talent. I mean, I know the answer is usually "no," but still.

[Rah]

14 minutes ago, El-P said:

The Joey Ryan thing is by far the worst and it's so awful. Apparently everyone in his entourage is shocked as hell. This is a thing with those people, they are very good at moving in the shadows and pretending to be someone other that what they are. This is so awful for everyone involved, really (probably hits me the hardest because I legit enjoyed this guy, so now I feel like I need to take a shower every time I even hear his name, and really thus far it's by far the worst case of all).

Candice LeRay's tweet about Joey is heartbreaking. 

 

To me, what makes Joey's actions stick out that much more, is how he did that spot with Sienna where she stopped the match to talk about getting consent just as he was about to make her grab his dick. That and another interview he did (Youshoot?) where he says that he gets explicit consent before each of his matches and doesn't expect any women to do something they're uncomfortable with really hammers home what a crock of shit he is.

[KawadaSmile]

Austin Theory is now being accused of making unsolicited advances... by a then 13 year old child. Holy shit.

 

[SirEdger]

Oh, that's not good for Theory.

And kudos to Ethan Page. Wrestling needs more good guys like him and Eddie Kingston.

[SmoothS]

This generation of pro wrestling is hopeless. I feel sorry for them. Between the WWE's greed (sucking Independent Wrestling dry), WWE's micromanaged booking, politics, wrestlers working unsafe styles, lots of wrestlers failing at connecting due to lack of charisma, the death of Kayfabe, the existence of Social Media (which has has done A LOT to hurt pro wrestling) an earthshaking pandemic, and now mindblowing allegations... My God... I don't see this industry recovering from all of this. 

For me it's just Puroresu, AEW, and cherry picked WWE matches. I also have a strong interest in going back and watching wrestlers who have a proven record of career longevity while being top workers the whole time (3 decades or longer) guys like Jumbo Tsuruta, Perro Aguayo, The Funks, Ric Flair, Harley Race, El Hijo Del Santo, Jun Akiyama, Minoru Tanaka, Masato Tanaka, Lou Thesz, etc... Career longevity... something that I don't see many in this generation achieving accept the likes of Kazuchika Okada, Kento Miyahara, Katsuhiko Nakajima, etc.

[C.S.]

Lagana's denial:

 

[C.S.]

17 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Saraya Knight also has some allegations going on against her. This was the latest one I found out about.

https://twitter.com/therichwhiting/status/1275100211736608768/photo/1

Paige's mum erased her social media accounts, but this was her response:

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2020/06/saraya-knight-issues-statement-regarding-abuse-allegations-671725/

[GSR]

Just now, C.S. said:

You might want to rephrase your post. I've read it three times already and I cannot for the life of me tell whether you mean to imply that "Chris Ridgeway, Dave Mastiff, Eddie Dennis, Grizzled Young Veterans, Kip Sabian, Drew Parker, Noam Dar, Rampage Brown...plus loads of guys who aren't as known internationally" have been involved in sexual assault, harassment, etc. or have not been.

It's in reply to Blehschmidt's post directly above it where they question

Quote

 From this generation of popular British talent, who's left that hasn't been called out? 

Those listed by NotJayTabb have not been called out.  At least yet,

 

[Kadaveri]

Sammy's put out a video addressing his comments:

 

 

[SirEdger]

 

[MoS]

As far as Lagana goes, Bix tweeted this 

I haven't read Ring of Hell, but Lagana's stories don't seem to be new. I am surprised he got a job after his WWE firing. 

[sek69]

7 minutes ago, MoS said:

haven't read Ring of Hell, but Lagana's stories don't seem to be new. I am surprised he got a job after his WWE firing. 

I'm not, the allure of hiring someone who was fairly high up on the WWE food chain (for a non McMahon) would have blinded most companies from paying attention to the ugly parts. 

[KawadaSmile]

Man, Scurll's apology is quite something.

"It's legal! I'm not doing anything wrong!"

 

Just to put this shit in perspective: when Karl Malone raped and impregnated a 13 year old girl, he was 20. Marty was 26 at the time, and the victim was 16. 

[El-P]

Well, if there was consent, then it is legal and it's nobody's business, period. The issue here is that the woman says there was no consent while Scurll says there was. It's word vs word, basically. So once again, I love people who *know* what happened because they read stuff on Twitter and others who are going all "yeah but morality !" when it is not the issue. If a crime was commited (rape), then it's a crime and should be punished by the law. If there was consent, then it's legal and no one has anything to say, really.

Now, if people want to say that 16 years old shouldn't be a legal age of consent, whatever, but that's a totally other debate and it's way complex and idiots on Twitter aren't gonna discuss that matter. Whether it's right or wrong that 16 is the age of consent in the UK is not the issue here. The issue is : rape or no rape. 

Of course, where it's getting even more complicated is that one could argue that the age difference (when was that, I don't even know so I'm not sure of what the difference was) played a part is getting "consent" where there should not be. I have not followed that story, I don' know if she was a trainee, a fan or whatever, but from that perspective, it can definitely play a part in the fact the relationship wasn't consented. Or maybe Scurll thought that it was (mistake and ignorance). Or maybe Scurll pushed so that it "was" (manipulation and sexual abuse). So many things we don't know, that are complex, and as of now, this comes down to word vs word.

[SirEdger]

For me the most disgusting part of that Marty Scurll allegation is that the reason the promoter didn't book him afterwards wasn't because of what he allegedly did to that girl but because he was JEALOUS HE WASN'T THE ONE THAT DID IT TO HER.

Think for a moment how fucked up this is. Clearly, that girl was taken advantage of and it seems that the promoter got to her way before Scurll did.