#SpeakingOut: Industry-wide sexual misconduct (assault/harrassment/grooming/etc) accusations and their repercussions

[Infinit]

I picture him to be like Dustin was for that period in 98 when he was doing that "born again" gimmick and Val Venis made that classic "The Preacher's Wife" with Marlena lol

[C.S.]

I have no idea what the one poster here actually said, so I can't comment. 

All I see now is some weird shit about how this board is trying to "cancel" him.

Huh?

57 minutes ago, Infinit said:

I picture him to be like Dustin was for that period in 98 when he was doing that "born again" gimmick and Val Venis made that classic "The Preacher's Wife" with Marlena lol

Holy shit! I thought I was the only one who remembered this gimmick. It lasted, what, 3-4 weeks and then was never referenced again.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I liked that angle, but the problem was this. When it started, I think Dustin was the heel and Val was the face, which is weird to begin with. The porn star is mocking the "Christian" who's a heel because he's mad about being dirty on tv and playing the Goldust character.  But there was an awesome part, where after being taunted by Val for weeks, Val was cutting a promo and the Goldust music and lights interrupted it, because now shit was on. And I'm sure there was no good payoff, at least I don't remember one. It was the ultimate Russo angle; at it's simplest it's a great wrestling story...but.....Russo. 

[CarpetCrawler]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

I liked that angle, but the problem was this. When it started, I think Dustin was the heel and Val was the face, which is weird to begin with.

I think another part of the problem was it hit a little too close to home for people in the "this is getting a little tasteless" kind of way, because while the Attitude Era was all about T&A and everyone cheering it on, there was the uncomfortable thing that this really WAS the wife of Dustin that they were doing this with, and we literally saw them the year before do an angle where they were struggling with their marriage (culminating with a sitdown interview with Jim Ross where Dustin called her all sorts of shit and then walked off).  The fans want to see T&A, but they also are adept enough to notice "whoaaaaaa you don't go after HIS wife."  It was different with Yamaguchi-san because he was already a joke character for a joke stable that was being played for laughs and mocking Japanese stereotypes.  It felt a little more real with Dustin, and I think Russo+co. just saw Terri as someone hot rather than how the fans saw her as "yeah, she's hot, but we literally just saw these two in a story where they were trying to repair their marriage".

Also Johnny is right, the whole Goldust redemption angle was awesome.  I look at the Dustin/Goldust angle as what really killed the mystique/value of Val's character to be honest though.  It did so much damage to Val because he went from being "oh here's the goofy porn star and he's making silly porn movies with the clearly not real wife of the stereotype manager of a stereotype stable, and now here's John Wayne Bobbitt" to what fans saw and felt completely uncomfortable over.  He clearly wasn't supposed to be the heel in the angle and the fans I think legitimately got kinda pissed over him over it, so they had no choice but to swap both sides around.  Once they got Terri out of that angle it did wonders for her character because they kept her as far away from Goldust as possible and fans forgot and finally saw her as the hot T&A that Russo+co. envisioned her as.

[El-P]

4 hours ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

It was the ultimate Russo angle

Absolutely. 

To add to the confusion and to stay within the topic, the worst thing maybe was the fact JR was slut-shaming Terri while she had every right to do whatever she wanted, especially after Dustin had basically humiliated her and dumped her on TV months before. And Val was the babyface to the audience (because he had the hot woman at his side), then he was the heel when Goldust showed up because Goldust coming back was cool, then he was the babyface again because porn star = babyface back then, then the angle concluded with Val dumping Terri like a complete asshole with then Terri pretending to be pregnant, then Terri pandering to Goldust again, who, despite being a babyface now too sent her packing too, then a fake miscarriage angle then Terri doing the PMS faction, which she stated before she hated. Yeah, Russo in all its absolute glory. An amazing display of sexism and misogyny on every level.

[Al]

10 hours ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

I liked that angle, but the problem was this. When it started, I think Dustin was the heel and Val was the face, which is weird to begin with. The porn star is mocking the "Christian" who's a heel because he's mad about being dirty on tv and playing the Goldust character.  But there was an awesome part, where after being taunted by Val for weeks, Val was cutting a promo and the Goldust music and lights interrupted it, because now shit was on. And I'm sure there was no good payoff, at least I don't remember one. It was the ultimate Russo angle; at it's simplest it's a great wrestling story...but.....Russo. 

The payoff was Goldust debuting the Shattered Dreams kick. I popped.

[C.S.]

The Knight family (Paige's family) just had another accusation leveled against them.

At least this one isn't sexual in nature.

 

[sek69]

Speaking of #SpeakingOut, Joey Ryan attempting to bankrupt all his accusers by suing them is almost as awful as all the harrassing he did. He's got a default judgement against Allie Kat since she couldn't afford a lengthy court case, and Pelle Primeau is having to do a Gofundme for his defense.

[joeg]

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

Speaking of #SpeakingOut, Joey Ryan attempting to bankrupt all his accusers by suing them is almost as awful as all the harrassing he did. He's got a default judgement against Allie Kat since she couldn't afford a lengthy court case, and Pelle Primeau is having to do a Gofundme for his defense.

He won by a default judgement. Now I'm no lawyer but my understanding is that only happens when somebody fails to show up for court or fails to file the paperwork for their case. It only means she didn't even bother with any of it which is totally understandable. Who wants to go spend a day at a court house dealing with lawyers and filling out paperwork?  The disappointing part as a fan is that two of Joey Ryan's cases have gone to court and nothing has come to light to definitively prove his guilt (or innocence for that matter) as both have been default judgements. So its still just message board gossip and innuendo until that happens.

I really would like to see one of these cases see trial and his lawyers attempt to explain how the man whose public wrestling persona is that of a sexual deviant is being slandered by accusations of sexual assault or harassment.

[Mad Dog]

On 1/24/2021 at 2:04 AM, joeg said:

He won by a default judgement. Now I'm no lawyer but my understanding is that only happens when somebody fails to show up for court or fails to file the paperwork for their case. It only means she didn't even bother with any of it which is totally understandable. Who wants to go spend a day at a court house dealing with lawyers and filling out paperwork?  The disappointing part as a fan is that two of Joey Ryan's cases have gone to court and nothing has come to light to definitively prove his guilt (or innocence for that matter) as both have been default judgements. So its still just message board gossip and innuendo until that happens.

I really would like to see one of these cases see trial and his lawyers attempt to explain how the man whose public wrestling persona is that of a sexual deviant is being slandered by accusations of sexual assault or harassment.

I doubt you will see it. If someone gets the funds to actually defend themselves I think you will just see delays and tactics from Ryan's lawyers that only serve the purpose of draining the defendants resources dry. If someone were to make it past all of that, Ryan would quietly drop it.

[joeg]

Are there any lawyers here at PWO? I'd want to know how much it cost to defend a defamation suit. Is it like a bar fight which can go away with a couple grand or is like a messy divorce that can reach up to six figures? 

[rovert]

21 minutes ago, joeg said:

Are there any lawyers here at PWO? I'd want to know how much it cost to defend a defamation suit. Is it like a bar fight which can go away with a couple grand or is like a messy divorce that can reach up to six figures? 

As a guide Pelle is US and Mariah is UK both ongoing:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/fightpellefight?memberId=6258546

https://ie.gofundme.com/f/mariah-legal-debt-from-speakingout

Hopefully, you will get change out 20k Dollar or Euro seemingly. 

 

[sek69]

He's also putting up videos of him doing the BOOBPLEX on his YouTube channel all while still working the religious gimmick on Twitter. Just in case there was any doubt if he was a complete piece of shit or not.

[MoS]

1 hour ago, joeg said:

Are there any lawyers here at PWO? I'd want to know how much it cost to defend a defamation suit. Is it like a bar fight which can go away with a couple grand or is like a messy divorce that can reach up to six figures? 

Lawyer here. It depends on the financial status of the parties, but in general, for sexual harassment cases and for defamation suits relating to that, it costs a lot, and more than the money, it's the sheer time and emotional energy that are real deal-breakers. Bar fights usually have cameras and multiple witnesses, so one way or another, they can get adjudicated quickly. Sexual harassment is a lot of he said-she said, and, like in the present case, the male accused is financially more secure than the female accuser. So it goes on and on, costs a bomb, and every day the accuser has to hear multiple versions of how she is making it up, how she is a gold-digger, how she just wants the attention, etc. It becomes extremely traumatic and just not worth literally losing your mind over. Hence why a lot of victims withdraw their complaints, or in some cases, settle. Even when the accused is convicted, they STILL hear the same skeptics and non-believers shit on them anyway. It's just too overwhelming and no one can be blamed for having to go through that.

[WingedEagle]

18 hours ago, joeg said:

Are there any lawyers here at PWO? I'd want to know how much it cost to defend a defamation suit. Is it like a bar fight which can go away with a couple grand or is like a messy divorce that can reach up to six figures? 

Likely neither and somewhere in between.  It really depends on how counsel on the other side is compensated and how long they're willing to prolong such a frivolous suit as their chances for compensation decrease.  Its not as though the plaintiff here (there's no reason to use his name) has much of a case and I can't imagine he's paying by the hour.

[ButchReedMark]

Not a lawyer, but you get the "justice" you can afford. Ask Ched Evans. The prick.

[sek69]

1 hour ago, WingedEagle said:

Its not as though the plaintiff here (there's no reason to use his name) has much of a case and I can't imagine he's paying by the hour.

I'm wondering how *he* can afford all this, as far as I can tell it's not like he has tons of companies bidding for his services at the moment and he closed down his own promotion.  I would think any lawyer worth a shit wouldn't take a case like this pro bono, so where is he getting the money for all this from?

[Migs]

Just now, sek69 said:

I'm wondering how *he* can afford all this, as far as I can tell it's not like he has tons of companies bidding for his services at the moment and he closed down his own promotion.  I would think any lawyer worth a shit wouldn't take a case like this pro bono, so where is he getting the money for all this from?

It's possible he's found a firm to take this for a cut of the winnings, which is fairly common in the plaintiff bar. He's claiming pretty big numbers in damages, so his attorney may just be putting in some work on the off chance of a large settlement. 

The GoFundMe goals seem reasonable to me. I dealt with a very small-time, bullshit intellectual property case a few years ago and it cost me and my business partners a few grand once we were done. A case like this is significantly more complex and time consuming. 

[WingedEagle]

16 minutes ago, Migs said:

It's possible he's found a firm to take this for a cut of the winnings, which is fairly common in the plaintiff bar. He's claiming pretty big numbers in damages, so his attorney may just be putting in some work on the off chance of a large settlement. 

The GoFundMe goals seem reasonable to me. I dealt with a very small-time, bullshit intellectual property case a few years ago and it cost me and my business partners a few grand once we were done. A case like this is significantly more complex and time consuming. 

This.  At some point that firm may decide the odds of any recovery are slim to none and cut bait.  But until then its likely not costing the gentleman in question a dime.

[sek69]

Yeah but all the people he's suing are fellow broke ass indy wrestlers. Any lawyer taking on a client like him expecting to get money from the people he's suing needs to be disbarred.

[Log]

Excuse me, but I'm going to go pitch TNT on my new drama "MoS and Winged Eagle: Pro Wrestling Attorneys".

Airing this fall, Wednesdays at 10pm EST right after Dynamite!

[MoS]

5 hours ago, Log said:

Excuse me, but I'm going to go pitch TNT on my new drama "MoS and Winged Eagle: Pro Wrestling Attorneys".

Airing this fall, Wednesdays at 10pm EST right after Dynamite!

I am cool with being the Bobby Heenan to WE's Nick Bockwinkel (Please no comparison to Callis and Omega, both of them are fucking dorks)

[sek69]

I mean.... I'd watch that.

[joeg]

Another question that may make me seem even more ignorant.... I can understand a victim being weary of the legal system for all of the reasons that have been laid out about above. But then why go to twitter to level accusations and seek justice? The same sort of trauma, public humiliation, and victim shaming one would expect in the legal process would only be amplified through the medium of message boards and twitter. Social media only amplifies the worst parts of our society.

[sek69]

3 minutes ago, joeg said:

Another question that may make me seem even more ignorant.... I can understand a victim being weary of the legal system for all of the reasons that have been laid out about above. But then why go to twitter to level accusations and seek justice? The same sort of trauma, public humiliation, and victim shaming one would expect in the legal process would only be amplified through the medium of message boards and twitter. Social media only amplifies the worst parts of our society.

True, but you can get more tangible justice via social media (out the person as a predator, get them fired/lose sponsors for their shitty behavior) than getting bled financially by the legal system only to end up with either a slap on the wrist (in a criminal case) or a victory in civil court that will end up resulting in nothing for the victim after lawyer costs and still getting all the same abuse.

It's not the greatest reflection of society but it might be the most accurate one.