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KawadaSmile

WWE TV 08/03 - 08/09 Giannis is a future back to back MVP

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3 hours ago, Superstar Sleeze said:

Bemoan RAW Underground all you want for Shane McMahon, production, cinema, fake shoot-style, I am going to be its biggest cheerleader because two words: NO ROPES!

NO MORE IRISH WHIPS! NO MORE ROPE RUNNING! Lets be honest, no more rope speed walking! NO MORE GYMNASTICS!

I do not think it was a home run at all on its first edition. The big dude hit no highspots which was ridiculous. I thought Erik came off the most badass. Hurt Business looked good and baller in their suits. 

To me RAW Underground is the most pro wrestling thing they have done in a long time. It feels like a carnival and gimmick-y. It is not a couple people going out their to collect a pay check by sleepwalking through some choreography. I think RAW Underground has potential. It has been one week, they have not achieved it yet, but I am a fan. 

A "GCW Bloodsports" division or whatever could have worked, but instead, they turned it into a cartoon on the first episode (with strippers / scantily clad dancing girls, a hostile overtake by a syndicate, cinematic-like production, ridiculous patrons (including one dragged into the ring to get beat up), a bouncer standing in front of a fake underground bar, Shane f'n McMahon etc.). It is not salvagable anymore, they have destroyed any chance this had, it's just another cinematic wrestling thing that has been overdone to death since the one or two successes they had at Mania.

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9 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

But wrestling is awful. It's embarrassing even to children.

Not trying to call you out specifically, but this comment just reminded me of how being a monopoly for a generation has really solidified in the public conscious that pro wrestling = WWE. I mean, it was always Vince's goal but when I hear anyone (either online or IRL) say pro wrestling is embarrassing and/or awful it's 99.999% some stupid shit WWE did.  Even when I was a kid, if someone was trying to give me shit about liking wrestling it was *always* about some cartoon gimmick in the WWF.  No one ever teased me for liking the Horsemen or the Midnights.

There is plenty of great wrestling out there (well maybe not now, but pre-pandemic) if WWE isn't your bag. AAA shows on Twitch were a blast to watch,  CMLL Friday shows are like the wrestling version of going to church in a famous cathedral. Impact has made strides to dig themselves out of the hole Dixie left them. New Japan has been consistently the best wrestling in the world for years. 

All companies are taking their lumps with the pandemic, as we've seen New Japan and AEW's women's division suffer because key folks are not able to travel and the little or no fans shows are weird to get used to and not everyone can get into them. Personally I think AEW has done the best job adapting as Daily Plaza is at least a unique looking environment, and their shows are the most "normal" looking ones in the US at the moment. It was hard to watch the Impact PPV with no fans after adjusting to the "crowds" in WWE/AEW, so I get the folks who just can't watch in this new weird world.

But wrestling is not awful or embarrassing.

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Indeed. It's been mostly great, actually.

I'm gonna say this : I don't miss crowds. AEW could go on with their little cloud of wrestlers on the first row and I'd be happy watching it in that format forever (IMPACT should do the same because their totally empty studio stuff can get kind of a solitary feel to it). Sure, crowds makes it better (or worse). But pro-wrestling as an aesthetic works for me on its own, I guess.

Who knows when people will gather in large masses again ? And who would want to, really ? (yeah, I know, some are already doing it, with terrible results too)

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11 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

His idea of selling a career-threatening injury is hissing like a snake and occasionally stopping to slap his kneecap like an idiot who's never actually been hurt before. The guy's just the shits.

avatars-000514007583-zrua4z-t500x500.jpg

This is the only thing I am going to see now when I am forced to watch a Seth Rollins match.

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11 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

From a heirarchy standpoint AND a character perspective, pushing Seth as the breakout star of the Shield would've been like pushing X-Pac as the Game in the 1999 DX split.

This is a bit unfair to X-Pac who in 1998 was arguably more over than Hunter - and a better worker. 

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I agree with Sleaze. I really want to see more wrestling with no ropes. It all of a sudden feels more dangerous, more interesting. I also liked no commentary. I could do without the music and camera cuts though. In fact, I think they should do the opposite and just use one camera. It would really make it feel different.

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My thing with RAW Underground is that it works much better as a youtube clip show. That's how I saw it and laughed my ass off at the fuckery. I'll continue to do that because there's no fucking way I'll be tuning in weekly just to watch like 10 minutes of funny wrestlecrap.

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It really is kind of amazing how many of WWE's ideas end up turning into "this probably would be pretty decent if anyone but WWE was doing it". 

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The thing is, this stuff has been done before. So, it's not even new or original. It's been done good before. WWE just does it poorly. Like they could never re-make the Broken Matt stuff from IMPACT for instance.

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13 hours ago, El-P said:

I'm gonna say this : I don't miss crowds.

I miss the pops & I think not having a live crowd actively hurts good moments like surprising returns or like the Otis/Mandy thing at Wrestlemania.

But at the same time... we don't have people saying "What!?" over promos. We don't have "This is awesome!" chants. We don't have any of the ridiculous, over-the-top chants that started becoming way too prominent with ECW crowds. And I think those are all positives. We don't have smarky fans booing the babyfaces & cheering the heels. 

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Was watching that last segment with the in-laws (they put it on because they know I like wrestling despite my pleas to put something else on). They were shocked by the final segment.

But, to me, it felt like something we’ve seen before (and done better by the nWo and Nexus and whoever else). Like RAW Underground, it’s an angle that they’ve already botched in the first week (even Miz and Morrison joking that “Retribution wasn’t pencilled in tonight” and “I thought they were on RAW” in their segment made it clear that they are just another act on a scripted program). What makes an invasion storyline work is that they *arent* part of the show - and the WWE ruined that on their 2nd appearance. Even having them destroy the ring during the last 5 minutes of the show was stupid - I mean, if they really want to create chaos, wouldn’t they do it at the start of the show? Again, look at Scott Halls Nitro debut for what “anything can happen” SHOULD feel like. 

 

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1 hour ago, KawadaSmile said:

Braun suuuuuuucks.

We should've gotten Goldberg vs Roman, man. That sucks. Fuck the rona.

The babyface world champion, who has an established relationship with the woman in distress, who he saw in a hallucination as he dreamed about being with her--and he now he doesn't care if The Fiend abuses her?

WTF!!!

That's such bad character building. Even while hating Vince, Austin saved Stephanie from her dark wedding to Taker. Because it was the right thing to do. They've established Braun as cold and callused. And I get that it's supposed to tie in with Bray warping his mind in the swamp fight. But there was a better way of establishing that than have him tell Alexa to buzz off.

Terrible, simply terrible.

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So Retribution is supposed to be what Vince thinks that ANTIFA is?  Or is this another attempt at Nexus.   So far it has looked rather goofy.  

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1 hour ago, hammerva said:

So Retribution is supposed to be what Vince thinks that ANTIFA is?  Or is this another attempt at Nexus.   So far it has looked rather goofy.  

I think the answer is yes to both. It definitely came off as "ANTIFA as imagined by someone who's brain has been addled by Fox News". 

The Braun stuff was indeed gross as well. They've been playing him and Alexa as a Beauty and the Beast duo off and on, so him just being all "GRR ME NO LIKE HER" just ignored years of backstory as well as being icky on many other levels.

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The reasoning behind the segment with Braun/The Fiend/Alexa seemed all over the place. They actually seem to be headed in 3 different directions at the same time:

1) They're trying for a double turn with Braun becoming heel (based on the notion thus far that The Fiend changes everyone he comes into contact with) and The Fiend turning babyface somehow (based on The Fiend's reaction to Alexa's behavior right before being interrupted by Braun, they seem to hint in that direction)

2) Alexa has gone full on Stockholm Syndrome mode and is falling under the spell of The Fiend or something. Or just like @sek69 pointed out, they're going for a Beauty and the Beast thing, just switching Braun with The Fiend - which would tie in my #1 point

3) Alexa and Braun are just trying to outsmart the Fiend for Summerslam and we'll find out that Braun wasn't really meaning what he said about "not caring about Alexa" in his promo...which would absolutely be dumb but that would be close to par with WWE Creative.

Either way, I just felt that the ending of last week's show was then useless with what they continued that build with. I was willing to give them a chance last week with it but I feel like they've already dropped the ball with this, considering that Alexa could've been (still could be though) an intriguing element to that story. Always felt that Alexa was the best woman suited for that type of angle on the current main roster and they're wasting a good opportunity.

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4 hours ago, sek69 said:

It definitely came off as "ANTIFA as imagined by someone who's brain has been addled by Fox News". 

Wow. Sounds like downright Trump propaganda then. ANTIFAs as heels ? Really ? What's next ? A White Supremacist babyface ? A fun-loving Nazi ? A happy-go-lucky rapist ? A heel ecologist ? Oh, wait, that we already had...

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It was worse than thar, because it was much lamer, and fits in quite nicely about the discussion in the thread about embarrassing WWE content. Watching a supposedly dreaded heel stable lazily paint anodyne graffiti on steel steps like a bunch of middle school kids and seeing it sold as a deadly attack was legit the most embarrassed I have felt as a wrestling fan this year. 

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Wow. Gotta catch that on Youtube. 

That being said, a bunch of sloppy white guys with dreads and playing djembe, yeah, they're fucking heels to me.

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6 hours ago, El-P said:

Wow. Sounds like downright Trump propaganda then. ANTIFAs as heels ? Really ? What's next ? A White Supremacist babyface ? A fun-loving Nazi ? A happy-go-lucky rapist ? A heel ecologist ? Oh, wait, that we already had...

The white supremacist baybface is easy (DOA), fun-loving Nazi, maybe Baron Von Raschke? The happy-go-lucky rapist... face gay gimmicks often go that way (Danshoku Dino being the most extreme example coming to mind). Am I missing more obvious examples?

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34 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

"Oh my God! Is that...is that RETRIBUTION?" Fuck off.

Holy shit, I should't laugh but yeah, this is totally Trump's "Antifa are the new fascist" extreme-right propaganda. Gotta love them threatening to gang rape that woman at some point too or something... Yeah, you know what, it makes Raw Underground look like the DX Invasion of WCW. And politically speaking... ouch... That's BAD.

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7 minutes ago, Robert S said:

The white supremacist baybface is easy (DOA), fun-loving Nazi, maybe Baron Von Raschke? The happy-go-lucky rapist... face gay gimmicks often go that way (Danshoku Dino being the most extreme example coming to mind). Am I missing more obvious examples?

Daniel Bryan, heel eco-warrior, of course.

Can't wait for the anti-vax female babyface tag-team called Debbie Homeo & Patty Belle.

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6 minutes ago, El-P said:

Daniel Bryan, heel eco-warrior, of course.

Can't wait for the anti-vax female babyface tag-team called Debbie Homeo & Patty Belle.

Daniel Bryan went without saying.

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Don't forget early on, they did an angle where the Bellas (ironically enough) kept thinking Bryan was a virgin because he said he was vegan.

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