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KawadaSmile

WWE TV 09/07 - 09/13 Brazilian Independence Day!

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6 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Oh hey, Austin Theory Must be Sex Pest o'clock in NXT.

Boggles my mind that he was kept, even if he's been demoted to NXT.

I can understand keeping Dream - I'm not saying I agree, but at least there are (or used to be) dollar signs with him - but what does Theory bring to the table that's worth the risk? 

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Just now, C.S. said:

but what does Theory bring to the table that's worth the risk? 

theory is just 23 years old

i guess they are thinking of keeping him around for the long run, trying to turn him into their main eventer for years to come

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16 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

theory is just 23 years old

i guess they are thinking of keeping him around for the long run, trying to turn him into their main eventer for years to come

They want to build up the younger demo, same reason Dom is main eventing Raw right now. 

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I dunno, guys... I realize Theory is still young and has a decade or more to grow into something, but nothing about him right now makes me think he brings what Dom does to the table - or even what AEW youngsters like Sammy, Darby, Jungle Boy, etc. are already showing us. 

If Theory wasn't a potential liability, I'd say he was worth bringing along. But now, why take the chance?

Randy Orton at 23, yeah, you could see the potential. Brock Lesnar at 23. The Rock at 23. Even Velveteen Dream.

Austin Theory? Not seeing it. He's nothing more than a bland "good hand" at this point, and "good rasslin'" doesn't, never has, and never will mean anything by itself without other key ingredients.

I don't see the special superstar aura in Theory that was apparent in all of the above examples. 

(Which, BTW, is also why Timothy Thatcher is DOA the minute he gets called up from NXT. There will never, ever be another Chris Benoit who gets a major push in WWE because he's amazing in the ring, despite being deficient in literally every other category.)

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Thing with Dream is even before all the allegations came out, the luster was off him as a star. Not sure what happened but he went from the must watch part of any Takeover to "oh man, not another Dream match" fast and I'm not even sure why. Perhaps live crowds were a bigger part of his deal than we realized.

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1 hour ago, C.S. said:

(Which, BTW, is also why Timothy Thatcher is DOA the minute he gets called up from NXT. There will never, ever be another Chris Benoit who gets a major push in WWE because he's amazing in the ring, despite being deficient in literally every other category.)

The bigger issue is that Thatcher (and everyone else in NXT, for that matter) isn't in the same galaxy as Benoit as a performer. Benoit could be plugged into pretty much any style and excel. Thatcher can only work his own esoteric style.

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1 hour ago, sek69 said:

Thing with Dream is even before all the allegations came out, the luster was off him as a star. Not sure what happened but he went from the must watch part of any Takeover to "oh man, not another Dream match" fast and I'm not even sure why. Perhaps live crowds were a bigger part of his deal than we realized.

Ironically, the lack of live crowds now is probably what will save him in the long run - assuming nothing else comes out and if what's already come out can be conveniently swept under the carpet by a combination of WWE's lawyers and fans who want to develop selective amnesia.

48 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

The bigger issue is that Thatcher (and everyone else in NXT, for that matter) isn't in the same galaxy as Benoit as a performer. Benoit could be plugged into pretty much any style and excel. Thatcher can only work his own esoteric style.

Agreed. 

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6 hours ago, sek69 said:

Thing with Dream is even before all the allegations came out, the luster was off him as a star. Not sure what happened but he went from the must watch part of any Takeover to "oh man, not another Dream match" fast and I'm not even sure why. Perhaps live crowds were a bigger part of his deal than we realized.

To me, its a simple as Dream not getting called up at the right time. At one point he wore those "Call Me Up, Vince" tights and it almost seemed like a dare - like it was so obvious that the It Factor was there and he was 100% ready to come in and get a push on one of the main rosters that Vince would have to be completely blind not to see it.

And I guess Vince was completely blind. 

So Dream stayed on the NXT hamster wheel and any sense of momentum was shot. A character like his, self-congratulatory and arrogant, doesn't really work when you have nothing to congratulate yourself about. He went from red hot to lukewarm (at best). 

Then he had that injury and now he's also been exposed as a sexual predator (or, if you don't believe that its true, his reputation has certainly been tarnished) and he went from just being lukewarm to being completely cold. 

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Mercedes losing the main event and parting ways with The Stone Brand is a development.

Would be great seeing her mix up with people like Liv, Asuka, and Sasha.

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The thing about WWE is that the cream does eventually rise to the top as long as you're capable of branching out and reinventing yourself. Benoit, Guerrero, Danielson, and even Asuka have shown that. The super workers who get lost in the shuffle have historically been guys like Vader and William Regal who could only really work their own style and forced everyone to conform to them.

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Looking at their track record over the last four or five years, I would hesitate to agree with the idea that cream rises to the top there. But then people are so pigeonholed by the overproduction that its hard to even really tell where the cream is.

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Well it's true in the sense that it takes someone with the talent level of Benoit, Guerrero, Danielson, and Asuka to outshine typically counterproductive WWE booking. If you have GOAT level talent you will rise to the top, even in WWE. 

 

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I never got the hype for Velveteen Dream. I had watched a bunch of his stuff back then he was supposed to be the hot shit in NXT and I thought he was never any good in the ring, his whole gimmick was basically aping (not to use a dirty word like cosplaying) Savage/Hogan maneurisms... He was basically TAFKA Prince Iaukea amped up with a great production. 

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1 hour ago, El-P said:

I never got the hype for Velveteen Dream. I had watched a bunch of his stuff back then he was supposed to be the hot shit in NXT and I thought he was never any good in the ring, his whole gimmick was basically aping (not to use a dirty word like cosplaying) Savage/Hogan maneurisms... He was basically TAFKA Prince Iaukea amped up with a great production. 

Me either.  Very much NXT's MJF as far as I'm concerned.  Certainly a confident performer when the camera's on.

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MJF is much better now and has a much higher ceiling than Dream,  I wouldn't think they are comparable at all other than "young dudes each company sees as a potential superstar".

 

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8 minutes ago, sek69 said:

MJF is much better now and has a much higher ceiling than Dream,  I wouldn't think they are comparable at all other than "young dudes each company sees as a potential superstar".

 

Correct.  I just don't see it in either of them yet.

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19 hours ago, sek69 said:

Thing with Dream is even before all the allegations came out, the luster was off him as a star. Not sure what happened but he went from the must watch part of any Takeover to "oh man, not another Dream match" fast and I'm not even sure why. Perhaps live crowds were a bigger part of his deal than we realized.

I think what happened is he was hitting that point where people were expecting to see improvement in the ring and some character evolution and he was kind of regressing in the ring and they got more main roster writing which really tanked him character wise as his shit started getting cringe.

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Yeah, he got carried along by lots of experienced workers into decent NXT style matches but he was always a clunky worker. After he got injured he came back even worse. The guy had charisma and the character for over with NXT fans but as with all WWE characters, they shove it down your throat too much and it's a turn off.

Plus, even before the alleged pedo stuff there have been allusions to him being off the rails behind the scenes.

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6 hours ago, El-P said:

I never got the hype for Velveteen Dream. I had watched a bunch of his stuff back then he was supposed to be the hot shit in NXT and I thought he was never any good in the ring, his whole gimmick was basically aping (not to use a dirty word like cosplaying) Savage/Hogan maneurisms... He was basically TAFKA Prince Iaukea amped up with a great production. 

Very poor choice of words, my man.

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7 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

Very poor choice of words, my man.

Mimicking. Better now ? (I use "aping" about anyone, so although I get what you meant by that, you should also know exactly what I meant and most of all what I DID NOT mean)

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