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The Thread Killer

The Thread Killer Talks Too Much: The Recaps

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Just catching up with this now, TTK and really enjoyed reading the first part of Eric Fires Back. I don't really know why, maybe because I always wanted WCW to win the war, but I have a soft spot for Eric and always want to believe he's a good guy.

My favourite part from that was Bret Hart saying "I have nothing good to say about him... He's a nice enough guy". I seem to remember Bret praising Bischoff in his book, calling him specifically 'a good man', or maybe it wasn't in his book but somewhere else. I didn't know they had such heat.

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35 minutes ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said:

My favourite part from that was Bret Hart saying "I have nothing good to say about him... He's a nice enough guy".

Yeah, it sounded particularly absurd when Bret was saying that.  It was Sam Roberts who was interviewing Hart, and after Hart concludes his diatribe about how Eric Bischoff is a total and loser and a maggot...but a nice enough guy...Roberts actually bursts out laughing. It was so ridiculous.

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I know I haven't posted any recaps in a while...so-called "real life" has been kicking my ass over the past couple of weeks. I hope to get back to the recaps soon.


The next best thing to reading a Thread Killer recap is actually hearing The Thread Killer talk!

Well...not really.

PWO Good Brother @Mad Dog was kind enough to have me as a guest on his highly recommended 4Corners Podcast.  (I'm not just recommending it because he had me on as a guest, I have listened to other episodes and it's a lot of fun.  It's like listening to a really engaging roundtable discussion.)

Anyhow...if you'd like to hear ME talk (not that I can actually think of any reason you actually would) then please check this out.  And big thanks to Mad Dog, the whole process was a pleasure.

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I just want to say that I miss the hell out of this thread. If @The Thread Killer got burned out doing recaps, I more than understand - it's obviously hard and time-consuming work - but I loved reading them.

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Yeah, this was one of my favourite little threads to get lost in. I might not post much, nor doing so in this thread, but this was a  must-view every time something new dropped. 

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On 4/18/2021 at 10:36 PM, C.S. said:

I just want to say that I miss the hell out of this thread. If @The Thread Killer got burned out doing recaps, I more than understand - it's obviously hard and time-consuming work - but I loved reading them.


5 hours ago, Rah said:

Yeah, this was one of my favourite little threads to get lost in. I might not post much, nor doing so in this thread, but this was a  must-view every time something new dropped. 

I am sorry I ended up kind of dropping this project. I am struggling with what to say here, and how much detail to give.  Suffice it to say, I have shared in a couple of threads here at PWO that I am having some serious health problems. Without coming across as needlessly melodramatic or attention seeking, I will simply say my condition has taken a significant turn for the worse. 

While all this has been going on  my laptop died, which had all my saved podcasts and recaps. I don’t know much about computers, but during this process I have learned two things. Firstly I don’t know what a motherboard is, but whatever it is, if it dies...you’re screwed. Secondly I really should have backed up everything on an external hard drive...which I did not.

So I found myself having lost all my shows and recaps, and I was really sick on top of that.  And then, just to add an extra kick in the teeth from life...my dog died just this week. I’ve had him for 12 years and during this illness he has been my constant companion 24/7.

The heart has pretty much gone out of me at this point.  I have managed to keep myself distracted during this whole process by farting around in the fantasy booking forum here at PWO. It has been a great distraction to keep me occupied as I have been bedridden and dealing with all this other crap.

But doing recaps is actually a bit of work and I just have not felt up to it. I actually let my subscription to Ad Free Shows lapse. Being in and out of the hospital and dealing with all this other stuff, I haven’t listened to any podcasts in quite a while.

I do appreciate the fact that people enjoyed the recaps I was doing, and who knows. Maybe at some point in the future I will pick it up again if I am able.

I feel really stupid even mentioning any of this here. Reading this back, it comes across as if I am looking for sympathy or attention, and neither is the case. I always hated when people used message board posts as a cry for attention.  As much as it sounds like that from me now, it really isn’t true.  

Let’s just say life is kicking my ass right now, and if it stops and I am capable of doing it, I will be more than happy to pick up this project again.

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No, no, @The Thread Killer, you shouldn't feel stupid at all. Your message doesn't sound at all like "a cry for attention" or "looking for sympathy," so don't worry about anything like that. 

Your health has to come first, and I hope you reach a point in the very near future where life is no longer kicking your ass. 

Sending prayers and good wishes your way. 

As for the computer, even if the motherboard died, there may still be a way to extract the hard drive and either put it into another computer or turn it into an external drive - so you may not have actually lost anything - but all of that will require someone slightly more tech-savvy than me to walk you through. It should be possible though. 

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That absolutely does not come off as looking for sympathy or attention at all. You seem like a good dude Thread Killer, and I'm sorry to hear that life is kicking your ass. If you ever do come back to this, this forum will be the better for it. Until then, I will continue to enjoy your fantasy booking and hope for the best for you Brother!

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I hope you get feeling better. It was awesome getting to bullshit with you and do a podcast. We need to do another one when you're feeling better so we can bitch more about e-fedding. 

You can probably pull your drive even if the laptop is dead. I had that happen once and just got an external drive case for it. It's actually fairly easy to do. If you get a new computer shoot me a message and I'll help you through it. 

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Like others said, that post was in no way looking for sympathy. I also agree that your hard drive/data is still salvageable so all is most certainly not lost.

When (if) you're ready, I'm sure all of us look forward to your next recaps. It's a goddam treasure.

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22 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

While all this has been going on  my laptop died, which had all my saved podcasts and recaps. I don’t know much about computers, but during this process I have learned two things. Firstly I don’t know what a motherboard is, but whatever it is, if it dies...you’re screwed. Secondly I really should have backed up everything on an external hard drive...which I did not.


Fingers crossed for your health sir. Have enjoyed reading the thread. 

As for the hard drive, you should be able to take it out of laptop and mount it in an external hard drive caddy, probably the easiest way. The hard drive is likely salvageable even if your cpu is fried. Happy to help if you want any advice

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Allow me to join in wishing you the best. And don't feel like you owe us an explanation. Like we said in the very beginning, you should walk away as soon as recapping starts to feel like a job or an obligation. Even more so if real life is getting in the way.

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I wanted to say thanks to everybody for their well wishes.  It really means a lot, you have no idea.

As far as my laptop goes...one night about a month ago before I went to bed, a message popped up saying I needed to install the latest round of Windows Updates, and the message also said that it was going to uninstall Adobe Flash because that program is no longer supported.  I pressed the install button and went to bed.  When I got up in the morning, my computer was frozen and I couldn't get it to boot.  I tried a few different things, and eventually gave up and took it to a repair guy.  He told me this was actually not an uncommon problem and the same thing had happened to several other people when they uninstalled Flash. Apparently the problem was that if you installed Flash yourself manually, Windows couldn't do the uninstall and it would screw up your operating system.  The guy tried a factory reset and reinstalling the operating system, but it still wouldn't work. The guy figured that in the process of removing Flash, the Windows update had fried my Video Card, and which had in turn fried my motherboard. The guy told me that repair could cost as much as $350.00 and my laptop honestly wasn't worth a repair of that much.   I asked him to rescue as much of my data as he could.  I bought a used, reconditioned portable hard drive and the repair guy moved as much of my data as he could onto the portable hard drive.  I learned my lesson, and I'm never letting that happen again.  From now on, I'm backing everything up onto my new (used) portable hard drive.

Here's the problem...

I have saved all my podcasts and all my recaps in a folder directly on my desktop.  It wasn't a shortcut it was actually a folder on my desktop.  The dude I hired was able to salvage all my data that was saved in the file libraries of my fried laptop, and he transferred them onto my new (used) portable hard drive...but for whatever reason, all the stuff I had saved directly on my desktop was lost.  That includes the recaps I had already written.  I was well into recapping the episode of "Conversations with Conrad" featuring Jim Crockett Jr., and both the interview and the recaps were lost.  Plus I had let my membership to Ad Free Shows lapse, so I had no way of getting the interview back...besides the idea of starting that recap all over again did not exactly fill me with happiness.

I was actually leasing the laptop from one of those "Rent To Own" places, so when the repair guy I hired couldn't fix it, I just sent it back.  The Rent To Own place had their repair guy look at it, and he told me the exact same thing the guy I hired told me.  Trust me, if they could have fixed it they would have...because as it turns out, as a condition of my lease...if the laptop breaks while I am renting it, and it isn't my fault...then they have to replace it with no cost to me.  So they begrudgingly gave me a brand new laptop, which is actually significantly better than the one that died.  So when it comes to getting a new laptop, I'm in okay shape.  The lease on this new one runs until November and then I own it...but as I said, this is actually a decent laptop compared to my old one.  And I have a lot of my old files and stuff (music, movies, pictures, etc.) on my new portable hard drive...but the two main casualties were a folder with my work files, and my recaps.  I have since discovered after doing some research that you should never save files directly on your desktop, because file backup and file recovery programs will not save files from your desktop.  Who knew?

I was in the process of trying to figure out what I wanted to do about that, when my condition took a turn for the worse and I ended up in and out of the hospital a couple of times.  I have been off work for a couple of years dealing with this ongoing illness, and during that whole time my only real companion has been my dog. It wasn't unusual for me to have a day where I didn't interact with another person, or even talk to anybody...especially since the pandemic hit.  But he was always with me, all the time like a family member. (Hell, I'd have taken him over a few members of my actual family.) As I posted here at PWO or listened to podcast and typed up recaps, he'd be laying across my feet.  If I watched TV he'd sleeping across my lap.  And no sooner did my laptop croak and I end up in and out of the hospital...and then he got very sick and passed away.  By that point, I pretty much threw in the towel.  I lost my enthusiasm for pretty much everything.

As I said...I really do greatly appreciate everybody's kind words either in this thread, or by PM.  It really does mean a great deal.  I also appreciate the advice regarding the computer problems, and the very generous offers to assist me in getting a new one.  But I am okay, in that department.  I know from experience that after a while, (if my health allows) my interest in listening to podcasts will probably return, and I am sure my compulsive need to write needlessly long posts here at PWO will reassert itself, and it won't be long before I start posting recaps again.

I am actually quite intrigued by the new podcast Jeff Jarrett is going to be doing with Conrad Thompson, and I am seriously considering resubscribing to Ad Free Shows in order to check that out.  And if I do, then I will get access back to all the content that I lost in the great laptop disaster of 2021.  Even the interminably long interview with cranky old Jim Crockett, during which he uttered the phrase "I don't remember" approximately 527,000 times.

But in the meantime, I really did want to thank everybody for their kindness.

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This is good news! Thanks for sharing and providing an update. I hope things move in a positive direction for you!

The JJ podcast would be interesting if he was going to be honest. 2004 JJ podcast would have been interesting, 2021 WWE HOF JJ though? How much is he willing to say. JJ doesn't come off as bitter about anything and had mended a lot of bridges over the year, to various degrees, so hearing a level headed JJ talk about CWA and CWF should be fun. I would like to hear more of that, but I know that's just me. Now that I think about it, I don't think we ever got JJ's taken on Bash At The Beach 2000, The Hardy Final Deletion/Broken Matt Hardy lawsuit, or the whole Billy Corgan fiasco. I'll give the first few episodes a listen, but it it goes the same direction as the Bischoff podcast, I will be checked out before episode 5.

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I know a lot of people were less than enthused about the idea of a Jeff Jarrett podcast, and to a degree I get that.  But a lot of people just have the automatic reaction of "Jeff Jarrett LOLTNA" and I think that might be a mistake.  Like you said, there are things in his background which could be quite interesting.  If you look at it...

  • Jeff Jarrett literally grew up in the Pro Wrestling business.  His Grandmother and then Father ran one of the most notorious territories in the entire territory system.  Think of the things he probably saw just growing up.
  • He actually worked in the dying days of the territories (I remember first seeing him in one of the Apter mags when I was around 15 years old)
  • He has a run in the WWF at the tail end of their boom period
  • He walks out on them after a contract dispute in 1996
  • He goes to WCW and becomes a member of the Four Horsemen
  • He goes back to the WWF during the height of the Attitude Era
  • He gets involved in a backstage conflict with the WWF's #1 star including that infamous "shoot" promo where he accuses Austin of being blasphemous so Austin refuses to work with him
  • He walks out on Vince and actually holds him up for the money he is owed before he agrees to drop the IC title to Chyna
  • He walks back into WCW into a Main Event spot due to his friendship with Vince Russo
  • He's present for the death of WCW
  • He gets told on live television that he's fired by Vince McMahon
  • He starts TNA...including all the drama that involved in the early days due to the financial problems and conflict between his Father and Vince Russo
  • He has a falling out with his Father and doesn't talk to him for years
  • He gets involved with Panda Energy...there's probably a year's worth of podcasts right there
  • He has a falling out with Vince Russo
  • He gets run out of his own company for having an affair with the wife of one of TNA's top stars...right after his own wife dies of Cancer
  • He starts Global Force
  • He makes up with TNA
  • He develops major league substance abuse problems and gets into all sorts of drama at independent shows and in Mexico
  • He gets fired from TNA (again)
  • He sues Impact Wrestling
  • Then out of nowhere...he makes up with the WWF and gets inducted into the Hall of Fame and gets a producing job out of the deal

There is a hell of a lot of potential material there...and it could be fascinating stuff.  The only things standing in the way are, how forthcoming will Jarrett be with information,(especially since he works for Vince again) how good of a storyteller is he, and most importantly...is Conrad Thompson willing to actually delve into the interesting topics on that bullet point list, or is he going to make us relive the damn Attitude Era again, like he has with Prichard, Bischoff, JR and now Kurt Angle?  I swear, I think Conrad has covered the final episode of Nitro with literally all of his co-hosts.  I don't want to hear about that again.

But if Jarrett is given the right topics, if he is willing to get into details, and is even remotely interesting...I think this could be one hell of a podcast.  Apparently the topic for the debut episode is going to be the night he walked out on the WWF and held up Vince before he did the job for Chyna...so we'll see.  I may take a crack at that, if I can get my hands on it.

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On 1/29/2021 at 10:42 AM, The Thread Killer said:

Ad Free Shows Exclusive
Grilling JR
“The Plane Ride From Hell”
March 29, 2019

- Conrad Thompson welcomes us to another Ad Free Shows exclusive podcast.  Conrad says he is happy to be bringing us a special exclusive episode of “Grilling JR” with Jim Ross.

- Conrad says that this episode is noteworthy, because the subject is the most requested topic in the history of any of Conrad’s podcasts.  Conrad says that for years, fans have been begging him to devote an episode to this topic, but up until now he has been unable to do so.

- The topic for this podcast is “The Plane Ride From Hell.” This refers to the WWE charter flight from England to the United States, which took place on May 5, 2002. The behavior by some of the WWE talent during this flight was so bad that it ended up resulting in some wrestlers being released, others fined, and it also resulted in damage being done to the actual plane and lawsuits being filed by the Flight Attendants who were unlucky enough to be working on this flight.

- Conrad says that listeners of “Something to Wrestle with Bruce Prichard” have been asking Conrad and Bruce to cover this topic for years, but that has been impossible because Bruce Prichard was not on the flight and had no actual firsthand knowledge of what took place.

- Conrad says Jim Ross is the perfect person to talk about this infamous event, because not only was he on the flight and witnessed much of the chaos that took place...but as the Vice President of Talent Relations for WWE, Jim Ross was responsible for dealing with the subsequent fallout from the flight. And now since JR no longer works for WWE, he is free to tell the whole story about what actually happened on this flight.

- Jim Ross says that as soon as Conrad told him that they would be discussing this incident, JR began to dread it. “This is not a story I enjoy telling. This was a low point for a lot of things.  You just didn’t think the bottom would fall out like this, and that a bunch of guys would start acting like children.  How could I have predicted this?  But it was real, and it happened in front of my eyes.”

- Conrad points out that this flight happened the day after a UK Exclusive Pay Per View event called “Insurrextion” which took place on May 4, 2002 at Wembley Arena in London, England.

- Jim Ross says that the reason the WWF chartered a flight from England back to the United States, is because the Insurrextion Pay Per View took place on a Saturday in London, and that gave the entire WWF crew and talent only one day to get back to the United States in order to broadcast RAW on Monday May 6, 2002.

- JR points out that the Pay Per View was the final show of what had been a gruelling European tour for the WWF talent and crew.

- As an interesting sidenote, the Insurrextion Pay Per View was actually the final event to be promoted under the name World Wrestling Federation. The WWF had just lost the lawsuit filed by the World Wildlife Fund, and after this Pay Per View they changed their name to “World Wrestling Entertainment” as of the May 6, 2002 episode of RAW.

- Conrad asks what the flight looked like.

- Jim Ross says the plane was not a typical plane. JR says that it was a 747 which had been customized and modified for use by a Professional Sports Teams.  JR says the seats had been widened and moved so there was a great deal of leg room and space, a lot of seats had been removed in order to create more space.

- JR said the flight had executive catering and (unfortunately as it turns out) an open bar.  JR jokes that the food was excellent but when it comes to feeding a plane full of Pro Wrestlers, that doesn’t really matter...when it comes to feeding wrestlers the quantity of the food is what matters, not the quality.

- JR says the Charter flight had been arranged in order to make things easier for the wrestlers after a tough European tour, so they could have a meal, a drink to relax and then get some sleep to unwind after the Pay Per View and before they had to do RAW the next day.

- JR says it would have been really hard on the talent if they had to perform on a Pay Per View after a long tour and then fly commercial on an international flight and rush to Television the next day. JR says the whole idea of hiring such a luxurious plane with so many perks was to make things easier for the talent, but it ended up backfiring in a big way.

- Conrad asks who was on the flight?

- Jim Ross says that all of the talent, some of the crew and of course Vince and Linda McMahon were on the flight.  JR says he’s not sure if all of the ring crew and production staff were on the charter flight, he says he thinks some of them may have had to fly commercial.

- Conrad asks if the talent all flew to Europe at the start of the tour on the same Charter Jet, or if they flew commercial over there and just took the Charter back.

- JR says some of the talent flew commercial to get to Europe, but a lot of them took the Charter both ways.

- Conrad wonders why the wrestlers behaved themselves on the way to Europe, but not on the way home.

- Jim Ross says there are a few reasons for that.  JR says that it’s possible many of the talent didn’t realize until the flight on the way over what the plane would be like.  JR says once everybody figured out on the way over that there was unlimited booze, they decided to make sure and take advantage of that on the way back.

- JR says the flight over to the UK was very quiet and most of the talent were sleeping.  JR says he thinks their attitude on the way over was that “they were on their way to work” whereas on the way home they were celebrating the end of the tour and successful Pay Per View...which didn’t really make much sense when you think about it, because they still had to go back to work the next day.

- The other factor which probably contributed greatly to what happened on the flight home, was an incident that took place on the flight over.  JR says that for whatever reason...on the flight to the UK, Vince McMahon thought it would be a good idea to engage in physical horseplay with the wrestlers on the plane. Specifically, Vince had a “takedown competition” where he challenged the wrestlers to take him to the floor.

- Conrad says he has heard stories about that incident, and asks if this was the same incident that The Undertaker talked about during “The Last Ride” documentary, where he woke up and saw Kurt Angle and Vince McMahon rolling around on the floor in front of them, and he broke it up because he thought it was a legit fight?

- Jim Ross says that is the same incident.

- On the flight home, a fight broke out between Brock Lesnar and Curt Hennig, where both men were trying to take each other down.  JR says that Vince was furious about this, and JR claims he told Vince that he really couldn’t say too much because Vince himself had engaged in horseplay on the flight over, which obviously sent the message to the talent that it was okay for them to act like that, since Vince had done it.  JR claims Vince reluctantly agreed with him that wrestling with the talent, in the aisles of the plane while in flight was not a good idea, in hindsight.

- JR says that when he and Vince met the next day, he told Vince: “You know...all that shit with you and Kurt, you didn’t help things.”

- Jim Ross says that unfortunately, the stories about what happened on this flight have become so infamous that it sounds like everybody on the plane was out of control.  JR says that is not the case. “Not everybody on this flight was acting like an asshole.”  Jim Ross says that if you listen to the stories, it was always the small handful of people that acted like idiots.

- JR says many of the talents who acted up on this flight tried to use the excuse that “we work hard so we deserved to blow off steam” but he does not buy that.  He said everybody on the flight worked hard on that tour, but not all of them acted irresponsibly.

- Jim Ross goes on a typical cranky old man JR rant at this point, talking about how when he came up in the business, they would have four guys packed in a car...they didn’t get custom chartered flights and catered meals and free booze, dammit.

- JR says the entire plane was classified as “First Class” but he and Vince and Linda ended up sitting nearer to the front of the plane, with the talent sitting in the back.  JR says he now realizes that a lot of them did this so they could do drugs where they couldn’t be seen by management.

- JR says the main reason he selected his seat was because it was close to the bathroom.  JR jokes that is a the real scoop for the listeners: “JR had to sit near the bathroom because he’s an old man.”

- At this point, (for whatever reason) Conrad decides to run down the results of the Insurrextion PPV.  I am not going to recap the results, because there was absolutely nothing noteworthy about the show and it isn’t relevant to the flight home.

- The only point of interest of this portion of the podcast was when Jim Ross praised William Regal for being the consummate professional.  JR pointed out that in keeping with WWF tradition, William Regal was booked to lose a European Championship match to Spike Dudley, in under five minutes.  Since this was William Regal’s home country, of course he was extremely popular with the crowd and had friends and family at the show, but JR claims Regal didn’t bat an eye when he was told he was losing to Spike Dudley in under five minutes.  JR really goes to great lengths to praise William Regal as a Pro Wrestler and as a human being, especially for being able to conquer his addictions.

- Conrad wraps up his quick recap of the Pay Per View results, and gets back to the topic of the flight.

- Conrad asks Jim Ross, who was he sitting with?

- Jim Ross says: “Nobody.”  JR says the plane was so big and there was plenty of room so he had a whole area to himself.

- JR says he had been looking forward to relaxing on the trip home, but he spent more time at the back of the plane than he did sitting in his seat, trying to deal with the chaos that broke out.

- Jim Ross says he was very disappointed by the behavior of the some of the agents/producers on this flight. JR says that instead of helping to control or discourage some of the disruptive behavior that was taking place, some of the agents were actually participating in it or actively encouraging it.

- JR said that a lot of the agents on the flight were new to the job and were “still stuck in that Pro Wrestler mentality...they didn’t want to be a heel to their peers.”  Jim Ross says he was very upset with the agents on the flight, because he feels that if some of them had done their jobs, a lot of the chaos on the flight could have been avoided.

- JR admits he met with several of the agents at RAW the next day and told them: “You don’t wear the same jersey anymore, guys. You’re not a wrestler anymore...you work for the office.  That’s what you get paid for.”

- Jim Ross says he kept getting called to the back of the plane and kept getting asked to deal with different situations, and that he asked some of the agents that were there for help calming things down, but unfortunately some of them were drunk as well, so he had no help.

- JR said it was very frustrating to deal with, and the old saying applies: “The only person who likes dealing with a drunk is another drunk.”

- Conrad asks if part of the problem on the flight is that the talent were divided into different “cliques.”  Conrad says he has heard that The Undertaker had his own group that he hung out with a drank with, as did Shawn Michaels, etc.

- JR said that some guys sat in groups with their friends, but other guys were able to sit off by themselves due to the size of the plane.  JR said some of the talent on the flight weren’t interested in being involved in the kind of behavior that was happening and they didn’t really fit in with any particular group.

- Jim Ross says that the problem was after everybody started misbehaving, the guys who were drunk or on drugs started trying to outdo each other and see who could act more outrageous.

- Jim Ross says that this incident happened at a changing time for the WWF/WWE. JR says the company had just gone public a couple of years prior to this incident, and the corporate environment was changing within the organization.  The kind of rowdy behavior that was traditional in the Pro Wrestling business was becoming unacceptable because WWE was now a publicly traded company.  JR says many of the older talents had a hard time understanding that bad behavior in public could hurt the company. JR says that he was amazed that some of the talent on this flight actually thought there was going to be no consequences for their behavior.

- Conrad asks Jim Ross if he knows what started all the trouble on the flight, or what was the first major incident that took place, if he can remember?

- Jim Ross says that unfortunately, much of the trouble on that flight was instigated by Scott Hall...but not so much from his behavior on the flight itself, more by the way Hall had behaved the entire tour.

- Conrad asks if it was true that the first person fired due to their behavior on the flight was Scott Hall.

- JR confirms that Scott Hall was fired the day after this flight, and that his behavior on the European tour was the reason for his dismissal.

- Conrad reads a report from Dave Meltzer regarding the release of Scott Hall. Meltzer is very critical of the WWF for hiring Scott Hall to begin with, and says: “This finalizes the decision to hire Scott Hall as the latest in a scarily predictable series of bad decisions made by WWF management over the past 17 months.”

- Jim Ross responds: “Wow, that was stiff.  I was part of that management team.  So we screwed up for 17 straight months?  Good to know that.”

- Dave Meltzer continues to opine about how predictable Scott Hall’s failure in the WWF was, since his track record in WCW was obvious, and on top of that Hall had experienced problems during his brief tenures in both New Japan Pro Wrestling and ECW after WCW went out of business.

- Meltzer claims the WWF has tried to pin Scott Hall’s problems on the chaotic atmosphere in WCW and that WWF ignored the fact that Hall failed in New Japan as well, even though New Japan have a “well structured system and Hall flopped there as well.”

- Meltzer reports that Scott Hall’s behavior was out of control for the entirety of his return to the WWF in 2002. Meltzer says that both Scott Hall and the WWF had been claiming that Hall was taking a medication called Antabuse which is supposed to discourage alcoholics from drinking, as it makes the user violently ill when combined with alcohol.  Despite these claims, Meltzer reports that Scott Hall was seen making a drunken spectacle of himself the night before his WWF return, and in Toronto the night before Wrestlemania...not to mention during this entire European tour.

- Meltzer claims that Steve Austin refused to work an extended program with Scott Hall because of Hall’s unpredictable backstage behavior and unreliability.

- Conrad asks Jim Ross if Dave Meltzer is correct, that Scott Hall’s behavior on the Spring 2002 European was the proverbial “straw that broke the camel’s back” when it came to Scott Hall’s run in the WWF.  Conrad says that Dave Meltzer had reported that Scott Hall had been out of control for the entire European tour and asks Jim Ross if that was true.

- Jim Ross says that unfortunately, it was.  JR says that Scott Hall’s behavior during the European tour actually led to what happened on the flight home. JR says that Scott Hall was drinking and taking drugs for the entire tour, and that the rest of the talent saw Scott Hall behaving that way and “getting away with it” so they thought they could do it too.

- Conrad says that sounds like something a child would say.

- Jim Ross agrees, but he says the mentality of the some of the talent on the flight was like a bunch of guys in Junior High trying to impress each other, thinking they were going to get away with it because somebody else did...or so they thought.

- Jim Ross and Conrad Thompson divert for a moment and discuss Scott Hall’s entire run in the WWF in 2002.

- Jim Ross has said that unlike practically every other talent contract, Vince McMahon made the decision himself to hire back Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash and Scott Hall and it was Vince McMahon who negotiated their contracts himself. Normally these decisions and negotiations were the job of Jim Ross and were only subject to Vince’s final approval.

- JR says there were several factors that went into Vince McMahon’s decision to bring back Scott Hall.  Firstly, JR says that Scott Hall was very well liked by Vince McMahon and that Vince sincerely wanted to help Scott.  JR says everybody was well aware of the fact that Scott Hall had been struggling with substance abuse problems, but many thought that the WWF would be able to help Scott Hall deal with these problems.  JR pointed out that the WWF spent many thousands of dollars sending Scott Hall to several different treatment and rehab programs, but despite their best efforts, it never worked.

- JR says many in WWF management saw a lot of value in Scott Hall.  Hall’s time in WCW made him a very valuable commodity and a hot property which Vince McMahon had hoped could be used to the WWF’s advantage.  JR says Scott Hall had good “name identity and star power.”  

- Jim Ross says that ultimately, the worst thing they could have done was hire Scott Hall back because it put him in the environment where all his biggest temptations were at hand, but obviously the WWF had hoped that wouldn’t end up being the case.

- JR says that bringing Scott Hall back to the WWF was well intended.  JR says it is easy for people to say it was a stupid decision in hindsight.  JR says: “We really wanted to help him. We tried to help him, but we did the worst thing we could have done by bringing him back.”

- JR says that the moment the plane got back to the United States, Vince McMahon wanted Scott Hall fired, because Scott Hall was largely responsible for the problems that occurred during the flight, either by participating in the problems, encouraging them or inspiring them.

- JR says there were other talents that Vince wanted fired, and JR says some he did, and some he was able to “save” from Vince.

- JR says that a lot of people respect Scott Hall’s mind for the Pro Wrestling business and it was hoped that he would transition from this contract as a talent, into a Producer’s role or a spot on the Creative Team.  Jim Ross says he has personally witnessed Scott Hall giving many young talents a lot of very good advice, and everybody had hoped he would become a coach or mentor for much of the younger talent that the WWF was planning on advancing into the spotlight. Jim Ross says Scott Hall has a great “mind for the business but unfortunately he is his own worst enemy.” JR says they had hoped Scott Hall would help get some other guys over, but that did not end up being the case.

- Jim Ross says that when Scott Hall is sober, he can be one of the most funny, engaging and gregarious people that JR has ever met and has one of the best minds for Professional Wrestling that JR has ever been around.  Unfortunately, Scott Hall is one of those people who when they have been drinking, become almost the exact opposite and become extremely obnoxious, confrontational and unpleasant to be around.

- Jim Ross says that when he fired Scott Hall, Hall actually agreed with JR that the whole situation wasn’t doing him any good.  JR says that Scott Hall had an image he had perpetuated about his life outside the ring and as a result he was constantly being encouraged by his peers to misbehave.

- Conrad says Dave Meltzer reported at the time that Scott Hall had already been drunk when he got on the plane, but then he started acting out during the flight.  Meltzer reported that at some point during the flight, Hall passed out and was in such bad shape when the flight landed that he had to be assisted in getting off the plane. Conrad asks if this was true?

- Jim Ross confirms that story, and says that by the end of the flight Scott Hall was a “dead man rolling.” JR says that Sean Waltman and Justin Credible had to put Scott Hall in a wheelchair and wheel him off the flight, because Hall was unable to walk...he was literally unconscious.  JR says Scott Hall’s condition was “embarrassingly bad.”

- JR says that by the time Scott Hall got fired, his overall condition and addiction was so out of control that JR assumed he was going to die soon, and felt bad that no matter what everybody tried, nobody could help him. JR says he is so glad that today Scott Hall has finally turned his life around.

- Jim Ross reiterates that Scott Hall was already drunk or under the influence of drugs when he got on the flight. Hall reportedly then started running up and down the aisles of the plane, spraying people with shaving cream and encouraging Curt Hennig who apparently went along with it.

- It is alleged that at some point after that, Scott Hall made some very sexually aggressive comments towards the Flight Attendants, which resulted in them suing WWE.  At some point after this, Hall passed out and slept the remainder of the flight.

- Jim Ross says another major issue that started things off badly on the flight was the horseplay in the aisle between Curt Hennig and Brock Lesnar.  JR says it started out as a joke, but neither guy wanted to back down and the two men started seriously struggling all over the place, and ended up repeatedly smashing into the emergency door while the plane was in flight.

- JR says that he heard Sean Waltman dismiss this incident in several interviews, where Waltman has said it was technically impossible for that door to open while the plane was in flight, so people made “too big a deal out of it.”

- Jim Ross says he is not sure who among the talent had the “aeronautical expertise” to make that determination.  JR asks how anybody would feel if they looked back and saw “two big sons of bitches thrashing around and banging up against the door while the plane was in flight.  I’ll tell you...it’s a little unsettling, quite frankly.”

- JR asks: “Why wouldn’t you be worried when you see a guy the size of Brock Lesnar slamming up against the door of the plane?”  JR says that the other issue was that Brock Lesnar could have easily been injured during the scuffle with Curt Hennig, which would have been a waste of his talent. JR says the WWF had big plans for Brock Lesnar and that was stupid to risk injury in that type of situation.

- JR says the fight between Curt Hennig and Brock Lesnar was the first time he was called to the back of the plane to try and intervene.  JR says at that point he was not interested in scolding anybody, he just wanted them to stop and settle down.

- Jim Ross says the next major problem involved Michael Hayes.  Hayes got extremely drunk on this flight, but JR says that Hayes started acting so strangely that it become obvious that somebody had drugged him, against his will.

- JR explains that there was a popular “rib” that used to go on in Pro Wrestling called “The H-Bomb.” Specifically, Pro Wrestlers would drop tablets of the drug Halcion into an alcoholic beverage without telling somebody, and then have them drink it.  The resulting cocktail of Halcion and Alcohol apparently results in extreme reactions like severe intensified intoxication, hallucinations, blackouts and eventual unconsciousness.  JR says this practice was common with many Pro Wrestlers.

- JR says that at the time of this flight, the drug Gamma-Hydroxybutyric Acid or “GHB” had also become very popular with many Pro Wrestlers because of it’s intoxicating effects and how easy it was to get.  JR says it was very common for talents to secretly slip this drug into each other’s drinks as a “joke.”

- Jim Ross gets angry when discussing this practice of Pro Wrestlers “H-Bombing” each other.  Ross says that after somebody has been secretly dosed with Halcion it is not uncommon for them to froth at the mouth or end up drooling all over themselves, which the wrestlers think if hilarious...but JR says he wonders how funny they would think it was if somebody died as a result.  JR says he is honestly surprised nobody ever ended up dying as a result of this dangerous prank.

- Jim Ross said that based on the behavior of Michael Hayes on the flight, it seemed obvious that he had been drugged. JR says that at one point, Michael Hayes walked up to Linda McMahon, pulled out his penis and appeared to be preparing to urinate on her. JR says that Hayes kept repeating the phrase “wait a minute” over and over, and luckily some people stopped him and took him to the bathroom.

- Jim Ross reiterates that Michael Hayes had a long, storied reputation for drinking too much and acting out. JR says Hayes “always wants to be a Freebird.” Despite this, JR says that Michael Hayes was not fired for his behavior on this flight because it seemed obvious that he had been drugged against his will but says Hayes is still lucky he was not fired...and there have been several times over the years in the WWF that Michael Hayes almost lost his job and this was one of them.

- Conrad says the rumor has always been that Scott Hall and Sean Waltman are the ones who drugged Michael Hayes.

- Conrad says that it has been reported that JBL and Michael Hayes actually became involved in a fight during the flight.

- JR confirms that JBL was very drunk on the flight as well, and that he picked a fight with Michael Hayes.  JR confirms that the story going around was that JBL punched Michael Hayes in the face and that is actually what knocked Hayes out in the end, but there was nobody who witnessed it and Hayes had no recollection.

- Conrad asks if it’s true that somebody cut Michael Hayes hair while he was passed out.

- Jim Ross confirms this happened.  JR claims that it was Sean Waltman who cut off Michael Hayes hair and put it in a baggie.  

- JR confirms that Michael Hayes was extremely unpopular with a lot of the talent in the WWF at the time, and that it is obvious that somebody...most likely Sean Waltman and JBL...took advantage of the chaos on the flight in order to get revenge on Michael Hayes.

- Conrad asks how Michael Hayes reacted to what happened to him. Conrad reads a portion of an interview given by Justin Credible, where he described Hayes waking up and discovering his hair had been cut, and then freaking out.

- JR confirms this and says that the next day at RAW Hayes was still furious, but he had no proof of who drugged him and cut his hair off.

- JR says that somebody taped the hair of Michael Hayes to the Locker Room door the next day at RAW.  Jim Ross says that he ended up being the one who took the bag off the door and threw it in the garbage. JR jokes that he considered taking the hair to Hayes and asking him if he wanted it back, but he decided that probably wouldn’t be a good idea.

- Conrad says that there obviously was not any long term hard feelings over the incident where he almost peed on Linda McMahon, because Hayes joked about it during his Hall of Fame induction speech.

- Conrad says that Sean Waltman has since owned up to being the one who cut off the hair of Michael Hayes, but nobody has ever confirmed or admitted that they drugged him.

- Jim Ross says there was so many things that happened on that flight were “fucking dangerous.”

- JR says he loves Sean Waltman, but Waltman’s attitude about the flight and his behavior on the flight has always bothered him.  JR says that Sean Waltman has always claimed that the WWF overreacted to what happened on the flight...but JR says he “respectfully disagrees.”

- Conrad reads out a report that Dave Meltzer wrote about the flight, where Meltzer claims that the reason the wrestlers acted like that on the flight was because Vince McMahon wasn’t there, so they thought they’d get away with it.

- Jim Ross points out that Vince McMahon was on the flight, as was Linda McMahon.

- Conrad asks if it’s true that there was an incident involving Dustin Rhodes and his ex-wife on the flight, and if so, Conrad asks if JR remembers it.

- Jim Ross says that Dustin Rhodes was one of the other talents on the plane who became very drunk. JR says Dustin Rhodes grabbed the Public Address microphone for the plane and started serenading his ex-wife over the intercom. JR says he had to go and order Rhodes to sit down. JR confirms that the entire incident made Terri Runnels very uncomfortable.

- JR says that was not the only incident involving Dustin Rhodes on the flight.  Jim Ross says that Dustin Rhodes was chewing tobacco on the plane, and instead of spitting into a cup, Rhodes had been repeatedly spitting tobacco juice into the pouch on the back of the seat in front of him, for some reason.

- Conrad is disgusted by this revelation and asks what happened as a result.

- Jim Ross says that after he went and spoke to Dustin Rhodes, Dustin was apologetic and sat down and behaved himself.  JR says that the next day, Dustin was told that the expense of replacing the airplane seat was being taken out of his pay, and he was being fined an additional $5000.00.  JR says that Dustin was also informed that he would be allowed to stay with WWE for the remaining six months of his contract with WWE on probation, but that his contract would not be renewed and he would not be offered a new contract.

- JR says that if Dustin had not “sat down and shut up” he would have been fired the next day, but because Dustin was apologetic and stopped misbehaving, he managed to save his job...for a while.

- Jim Ross goes out of his way to say that the Dustin Rhodes he knows now, is nothing like the person he was in 2002.  JR confirms that Rhodes is now clean and sober, and is fulfilling the position now in AEW that Ross had always hoped he would in WWE back in 2002.  JR says that he loves Dustin Rhodes and is very proud of him. JR says Dustin Rhodes is a “changed man” today.

- Conrad asks if Vince McMahon was aware of what was going on during the flight or if he got involved.

- Jim Ross says that Vince knew there were problems but he did not go into the rear of the plane where the talent were, instead he ordered JR to deal with it.

- JR says that by this time, he was doing his best to avoid getting the WWF involved in lawsuits as a result of the flight.  “And that was a failed attempt. We got involved in lawsuits as a result of this goddamn abortion.”

- Jim Ross says that after the chaos broke out on the plane, the Flight Attendants let the wrestlers do whatever they wanted...and he does not blame them for that.

- Jim Ross says that he does not blame the Flight Attendants for suing and that they deserved to be compensated for what they were subjected to.

- JR says that he knew trouble was coming with Flight Attendants.

- Conrad asks why JR thought there would be trouble with the Flight Attendants.

- Jim Ross says that as soon as he saw some of the Flight Attendants acting in a flirtatious or inappropriate way with the talent, he was afraid some of the wrestlers would take that the wrong way and take it too far, and that is exactly what happened.

- Jim Ross says: “The Flight Attendants partied pretty hard with the boys...and you know what that means. No good can come of that. Nobody was looking for a nice, romantic interlude and none of those guys was looking to meet the girl of their dreams. Those girls didn’t do a lot to help themselves, but that absolutely doesn’t give anybody the right to be sexually abusive.”

- Conrad says that Dave Meltzer reported that both Arn Anderson and Gerald Brisco were disciplined after the flight because they were supposed to help manage the situation, but instead both of them were drinking and partying with the boys and did nothing to make the situation any better. Conrad asks if this was true.

- Jim Ross (reluctantly) admits that is true.  JR says both Anderson and Brisco got quite drunk during the flight, and instead of helping calm the situation down, they just added to the problem.  JR admits that Brisco and Anderson are two of the agents he was referring to earlier when he talked about being disappointed with some of the agents on the flight.  JR says Arn “fell into the trap of being one of the boys.”

- Conrad says that Dave Meltzer reported that Ric Flair started to get out of control during the flight, and Arn Anderson (who could have calmed Ric down) did nothing to stop the problem, so Jim Ross ended up having to get involved.  Conrad asks if this is true.

- Jim Ross admits that Ric Flair did indeed get up to his usual antics during the flight, and Arn Anderson was doing nothing to discourage it.  JR says that Fit Finlay was the only one trying to maintain order, and that Finlay was the one who came to JR to ask for his help in trying to control Ric Flair.

- Conrad says that Meltzer also reported that one of the other major problems on the flight was Curt Hennig. Conrad says that Meltzer reported that Curt Hennig’s behavior was out of control on the flight...and that for some reason Hennig kept trying to provoke Brock Lesnar.

- Jim Ross admits that is true.  JR says that one of the reasons the WWF brought back Curt Hennig was specifically to work with Brock Lesnar.  JR says they were both collegiate wrestlers from Minnesota and it was thought that Hennig would make a great mentor figure for Brock Lesnar, but the opposite ended up happening.

- Jim Ross says that around the time of this incident in 2002, he had conversations with Vince McMahon about long term planning. Specifically, JR says that both he and Vince realized that they could not rely on talent from “The Attitude Era” forever.  It was the intention of the WWF to start slowly bringing along some younger talent and introducing them into the mix. JR uses Brock Lesnar as an example of just such a younger talent.

- JR says a very important part of this plan was the hiring of experienced veterans who had shown an aptitude for teaching, coaching and helping younger talent. The decision was made to hire several veteran talents who were nearing the end of their careers, and use them to work in the ring with younger, up and coming stars and give them the benefit of their experience and advice. The hope was then that these veterans would help by “putting over” the younger talent, and then transition into coaching, producing and creative roles behind the scenes.

- Jim Ross says that three of the talents that were hired with this specific purpose in mind were Scott Hall, Curt Hennig and Dustin Rhodes.  All three of these men were hired around the start of the year, and in the case of Hennig and Rhodes they were re-introduced during the Royal Rumble.  JR said it was hoped that all three men would go on to become leaders in the Locker Room, but the behavior of all three men on this flight proved that would not be the case...and in fact the opposite was true.

- Jim Ross says that unfortunately, what WWF management had failed to take into consideration was the attitude of some of these veterans.  Specifically, JR says that some veteran talents can be prone to jealousy of younger talent and are reluctant to give up “their spot.”  In some cases these veterans may actually do the opposite of what they were hired for, and attempt to sabotage the younger talent.

- JR says that even though some veterans have the ability to help younger talent, many are stubborn and immature and won’t do it.  Jim Ross says these problems can be amplified or exacerbated if the veteran in question has a substance abuse problem, as it can prevent them from thinking clearly. Scott Hall, Curt Hennig and Dustin Rhodes are all examples of this problem.

- Jim Ross says that conversely, there have been a couple of people backstage who did understand their roles as veterans, and were happy to transition into a position of mentor and teacher.  JR named Fit Finlay and William Regal as two examples of guys who towards the end of their careers, understood when it was time to “give back” and did not act selfishly or irresponsibly.

- JR basically says that Curt Hennig was jealous of Brock Lesnar and instead of trying to help him, Hennig kept trying to provoke him into misbehaving.  Due to Curt Hennig’s behavior on this flight and his inability to do the job he was hired for (act as a mentor for younger talent and transition into a producer’s job) he was fired the day after the flight.

- JR says that Paul Heyman was on the flight and was sitting with Brock Lesnar, and that Heyman was encouraging Lesnar to ignore Curt Hennig as Hennig kept repeatedly trying to provoke Lesnar.  JR says the problem was, the other wrestlers that were there kept telling Lesnar that he had to stand up to Hennig otherwise he would have no respect in the Locker Room.

- JR says the entire situation with Curt Hennig and Brock Lesnar was an example of an outdated mentality by veterans in the Locker Room and it was sad that athletes of that calibre were conducting themselves like “jabronis and ham and eggers.” JR says he borrowed those phrases from The Rock and Bobby Heenan.

- Jim Ross gets a bit upset at this point, and says one of the things that upset him the most about the flight was the attitude of some of the talent the next day at RAW.  JR says many of the people who were on the flight weren’t embarrassed by their behavior and saw nothing wrong with what they had done. JR says after everything was said and done, there were still talent who thought the whole incident was funny, and that really disappoints him.

- Conrad says that it’s time to talk about “The Nature Boy.”  Conrad says that it is not uncommon for Ric Flair to get drunk and naked when he is on a non-commercial flight, and this was no exception.  Conrad says that Ric is accustomed to making a scene, and that Dave Meltzer reported he did act out during this flight, and it was Jim Ross who had to get him to behave.

- Jim Ross replies: “Yep.”

- Conrad says two of the Flight Attendants ended up suing Ric Flair and WWE for Flair’s behavior on this flight. Flair is accused of being “sexually aggressive” by being naked except for a “jewelled cape” and flashing the Flight Attendants and “spinning his penis around.”  Flair was further accused of attempting to grab the Flight Attendants and place their hands on his penis.

- Conrad says that the lawsuit further alleges that Scott Hall propositioned the Flight Attendants, as did Dustin Rhodes.  The Flight Attendants also alleged that several of the wrestlers on the flights were using drugs and gave the Flight Attendants empty syringes to dispose of.

- Conrad says that Ric Flair has admitted being naked except for his robe and admits exposing his penis, but Flair denies ever sexually assaulting anybody during the flight.

- Jim Ross says WWE did not have a leg to stand on in defending the lawsuit, and they had to settle it out of court because there was too much evidence against them.  JR says he is glad that WWE did not try and defend the lawsuit because they were guilty and implies he is happy the Flight Attendants received a large settlement.

- Jim Ross says when it came to the lawsuit: “WWE did not have a leg to stand on.”

- JR says that he was sitting in his seat, after the fight between Hennig and Lesnar, after he had dealt with Dustin Rhodes, after the incident with Michael Hayes, when Fit Finlay came up to JR’s seat, put his hand on JR’s shoulder and said: “It’s Ric.”

- JR said his reaction was to sigh and say: “Oh fuck.”

- Conrad says JR must have known what that meant.

- Jim Ross replies: “Of course.  I’ve seen Ric Flair’s erect penis a lot more than I should have in my lifetime.”

- JR says when he arrived in the back of the plane, Flair was standing in the aisle with a huge grin on his face, wearing alligator shoes, dress socks, his robe...and nothing else.

- JR says he definitely saw Flair nude except for his robe, but he did not witness Flair interacting with any of the Flight Attendants. JR says the damage had been done before he had confronted Flair.

- JR notes that Flair was trained by Verne Gagne and that Gagne had quite a reputation for showing his penis to people who hadn’t asked to see it.  JR says Bobby Heenan had told him stories about Verne, and obviously Verne must have had an influence on Flair.

- JR says that as soon as he saw what Flair was doing, he went to Flair and told him to get dressed and settle down.  JR claims that Flair complied and got dressed right away.  JR says: “Ric realized the error of his ways as soon as I confronted him.”

- Jim Ross says he didn’t act the way Bill Watts or Ole Anderson would have...he didn’t yell or provoke a confrontation.  JR says he tried to be reasonable and told Ric to think about what he was doing, and what the ramifications of his behavior were.

- Conrad reads a summary of the all the incidents just described, as written by Dave Meltzer.

- Conrad then reads a portion of an interview with Justin Credible, discussing this flight.  Justin Credible says that this was the last time Vince McMahon ever provided alcohol to his talent.  Conrad asks if this was true.

- Jim Ross confirms this. JR says that because of this incident, WWE has never served alcohol to their employees on a Private Charter flight again, and that is now company policy.  JR says this is because “these guys can’t control their goddamn urges.”

- JR goes off on a bit of a rant again, and says that the Charter flight and open bar was provided to make life easier for the talent, but they became entitled and ruined it.

- Conrad reads an interview with Sean Waltman that says: “This whole thing was brewing and it happened because everybody was doing GHB.  Back then you could buy GHB legally in a health food store, but it really fucks you up.”

- Conrad says Jim Ross has famously said that: “When that flight took off, Scott Hall and Curt Hennig had jobs. When it landed, they didn’t.”

- Jim Ross says that in the end, Hall and Hennig were fired, Dustin’s was fined and his contract was not renewed, and JR says that he issued serious fines to several of the other talents and agents who were on the flight.  JR says that he ended up personally handling all the discipline for everybody who misbehaved on the flight.

- Jim Ross says: “This never should have happened and it will never happen again.  And if Tony Khan ever comes to me and says he wants to run a tour of the UK and book a Charter, and asks me if I have any advice...I will say yeah.  No booze.”

- Conrad says he is glad they were finally able to discuss this topic, and hypes JR's new book as the interview wraps up.

~End of Interview~

Timely Bump!

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This is interesting because on WOR Meltzer said he spoke to several people on the flight and he thinks they are conflating their memories of three separate transatlantic flights where shit like this happened. He said that in the context of whether Vince was on this flight or not. When he reported on this originally in 2002, he said Vince was not on it. He said he spoke to a lot of people after the episode and they were not sure and he got conflicting reports, so he would trust what he reported 20 years ago. 

JR's account seems to contradict Meltzer. Also another thing that contradicts Meltzer is the Austin-Taker podcast where they spke of the plane ride from hell, and they mentioned Vince was there and Angle was wrestling with him. How many such transatlantic flights would have been there for the talent to take in 2002? Did WWE tour Europe thrice in 2002?

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