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As someone who never paid much attention to the watchalongs, I wanted to ask: Do you think these sessions create groupthink? I could see everyone deciding collectively where they land on stuff when they watch together. I'm not saying that happens, just asking if it does.

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I participated quite a bit with a few people, and I would not say they created groupthink. There was a good amount of "hey, did you see that moment?" and "Do you think that was a good thing or a bad thing in the match?" that kind of thing, but it was more fun and free flowing and there weren't really big rounding off discussions in the end. It  was more about bringing specific moments to people's attentions and talking about them in real time as the match was going on and a little a bit of he associated joy or frustration that comes with that.

I will say that these were almost entirely chat based and I think it might have been different if they were vocal. My experience in listening to people's watch parties for the AWA or lucha sets feels a little different, with more people getting swept along and maybe more groupthink. I know the technical advancements in things like discord have more easily allowed for everyone to be on mics, but I'd note that it would be much easier for me to participate in chat-only settings as I'll be almost constantly multitasking to at least a small degree given real life pressures. I don't know where everyone else would fall on that though. I imagine the opposite. I also imagine there'd be a lot of opportunities for a lot of modalities.

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12 hours ago, dkookypunk43 said:

I was one of the random people that actually voted in the project without knowing the whole scope of the project back in 2016 because I became intrigued by the project in its last stages because I didn't find PWO til say 2015. And then realized oh shit I shouldn't have voted in this too many people put too much investment into this where my vote was throwing off actual tallys. But but my concern is if someone wants to get into a project that is a fan that is intrigued by this like I was are we just going to cock block them. Because people get older people become smarter and people watch more footage and stuff like that and people have the tendency to discover more maybe there's a new fan who wants to come on here and discuss. I'm trying to advocate for that fan because I was that fan back in 2016

I agree with you. Even though it was frustrating to watch the disconnects between the discussion and the broader vote, I would still prefer to leave the door open. We just need to do everything possible to bring people into the discussion, because that's what endures.

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1 hour ago, Loss said:

As someone who never paid much attention to the watchalongs, I wanted to ask: Do you think these sessions create groupthink? I could see everyone deciding collectively where they land on stuff when they watch together. I'm not saying that happens, just asking if it does.

I have been play tested them for like 6 months, no. We disagree a LOT.

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Were there actual instances of the discussion significantly influencing people’s voting? I remember Jetlag had a nice writeup on Franz Van Buyten close to the voting deadline which made me check out his matches and got him onto my ballot. But for a lot my other rankings, I tried to go off of solely my own viewings without being influenced too much by other opinions. And in retrospect, I regret that a few of my rankings were too strongly based on group consensus rather than my own views.

I realize the discussion is the backbone of the project so I’m not advocating anything or have better ideas, but also having random people submit ballots at the end was interesting in cancelling out some of the groupthink (of course there’s other issues that arise with those type of ballots).

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11 minutes ago, Frankensteiner said:

Were there actual instances of the discussion significantly influencing people’s voting? I remember Jetlag had a nice writeup on Franz Van Buyten close to the voting deadline which made me check out his matches and got him onto my ballot. But for a lot my other rankings, I tried to go off of solely my own viewings without being influenced too much by other opinions. And in retrospect, I regret that a few of my rankings were too strongly based on group consensus rather than my own views.

I realize the discussion is the backbone of the project so I’m not advocating anything or have better ideas, but also having random people submit ballots at the end was interesting in cancelling out some of the groupthink (of course there’s other issues that arise with those type of ballots).

People making guides early in the process matters, I think. OJ ranked European workers and that impacted who people spent time watching, to a degree. A lot of the podcasts/final write-ups were a little late, since they were all talking about individual lists that were already made or justifying a #1. I know I made my Bock case too late, and even lamented it at the time, though I'm not sure it would have mattered much one way or the other.

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1 hour ago, Frankensteiner said:

Were there actual instances of the discussion significantly influencing people’s voting? I remember Jetlag had a nice writeup on Franz Van Buyten close to the voting deadline which made me check out his matches and got him onto my ballot. But for a lot my other rankings, I tried to go off of solely my own viewings without being influenced too much by other opinions. And in retrospect, I regret that a few of my rankings were too strongly based on group consensus rather than my own views.

I realize the discussion is the backbone of the project so I’m not advocating anything or have better ideas, but also having random people submit ballots at the end was interesting in cancelling out some of the groupthink (of course there’s other issues that arise with those type of ballots).

isn't people being swayed by discussions a good thing? If the discussions yields to 0 changes they are pointless.

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Sure, I realize that and said as much. Still, there could be a bit of a double-edged sword if it sways voting into consensus. I know I personally ranked some guys higher than I wanted in hindsight because I felt they "should" be high based on others opinions. As I said tho, I don't have any ideas on how to counterbalance that and the discussion is the backbone of the project for most here. Just an observation I wanted to point out in relation to how I came up with my voting.

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Just now, Frankensteiner said:

Sure, I realize that and said as much. Still, there could be a bit of a double-edged sword if it sways voting into consensus. I know I personally ranked some guys higher than I wanted in hindsight because I felt they "should" be high based on others opinions. As I said tho, I don't have any ideas on how to counterbalance that and the discussion is the backbone of the project for most here. Just an observation I wanted to point out in relation to how I came up with my voting.

Oh yeah, I voted Flair too high due to that.

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And I think discord's a good place because people are on there for other things too and can easily check when discussions go back far enough. I use discord for my music discussions and for wrestling discussion and I prefer it to the forum because I'm on discord a lot more than I'm on this forum. It's nothing personal it's just I use discord in a more social way

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On 2/26/2021 at 10:30 AM, Childs said:

I agree with you. Even though it was frustrating to watch the disconnects between the discussion and the broader vote, I would still prefer to leave the door open. We just need to do everything possible to bring people into the discussion, because that's what endures.

I know the disconnects within the discussion could be frustrating but I was intrigued in voting who I thought were great. I want as many people in the discussion as possible too and it's hard when someone especially at the age I was at the time 19-20, being as curious as I was told that your point is wrong or your opinion is wrong. I just want this to be fun. People take this GWE shit waaaaaaayyyyyyy too seriously because we're in the grand scheme of it just the smallest of subset of fans who are willing to evaluate this. For us to be arguing and having personal beefs is insane

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On 2/26/2021 at 9:43 AM, Grimmas said:

I have been play tested them for like 6 months, no. We disagree a LOT.

Bockwinkel vs. Hansen was mediocre and I wish you were willing to look past your admiration for both men enough to see that.

 

But yeah, obviously I’m in. Been watching tons of stuff so I like my ballot a lot more in 26 then I did in 16. Looking forward to others joining in the watch parties

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Just now, El Dragon said:

Bockwinkel vs. Hansen was mediocre and I wish you were willing to look past your admiration for both men enough to see that.

I love you, but you are a wild person and very wrong.

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7 minutes ago, Grimmas said:

I love you, but you are a wild person and very wrong.

If that match was Bruiser Brody vs. Nick Bockwinkel and Brody gave the exact same performance Hansen did in that match it would be held as a prime example of Brody being unwilling to do business and ruining what could have been a great match. I will gladly die on this hill.

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Brody is by far my least favorite Bock opponent and Bock basically shit talked him as terrible to work with. Those matches are not very good at all.

The Hansen matches aren’t my favorite by any means but I do think they show a standing tall side to babyface Bock that helps to round out his case.

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On 2/26/2021 at 11:30 AM, dkookypunk43 said:

I was one of the random people that actually voted in the project without knowing the whole scope of the project back in 2016 because I became intrigued by the project in its last stages because I didn't find PWO til say 2015. And then realized oh shit I shouldn't have voted in this too many people put too much investment into this where my vote was throwing off actual tallys. But but my concern is if someone wants to get into a project that is a fan that is intrigued by this like I was are we just going to cock block them. Because people get older people become smarter and people watch more footage and stuff like that and people have the tendency to discover more maybe there's a new fan who wants to come on here and discuss. I'm trying to advocate for that fan because I was that fan back in 2016

The fan has to be willing to put the hard yards in. If you want to participate in something like this, you have to watch stuff. I don't see the point in letting a guy who only watches current stuff submit a list of a 100 guys they know. It may be a list of their 100 favorite wrestlers, but what value does it add to the project? If I were in charge, I would only let people who actively participate in the discussions vote, and I wouldn't cast out a net on social media trying to scrounge up extra votes. Invite folks in at the beginning. If they like it and they're serious about it, then let them vote. If that seems off-putting to some folks, then perhaps they're not really that invested in the idea. 

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2 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

The fan has to be willing to put the hard yards in. If you want to participate in something like this, you have to watch stuff. I don't see the point in letting a guy who only watches current stuff submit a list of a 100 guys they know. It may be a list of their 100 favorite wrestlers, but what value does it add to the project? If I were in charge, I would only let people who actively participate in the discussions vote, and I wouldn't cast out a net on social media trying to scrounge up extra votes. Invite folks in at the beginning. If they like it and they're serious about it, then let them vote. If that seems off-putting to some folks, then perhaps they're not really that invested in the idea. 

I've had a lot of discussions with people over the last 5 years since 2016. I have to say that the people who are the most invested for 2026, the most excited for 2026, and will probably add the most to 2026, are people who barely participated in 2016 and threw in a ballot in the end.

Obviously going out and fishing for voters is nothing I did in 2016 and wouldn't for 2026, but encouraging people to get involved and do vote is something I am all for. I want as many people as possible to be involved, not just the same 20 white hardcore male fans who are going to watch 2 million hours of footage.

It's about the process and the journey and I want people to go through that. Throwing up a litmus test only means less people will care or try now and in the future.

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Are we doing Tag Teams again?  I didn't do 2016's poll for either, but will try in 2026, but it seemed like the Tag Team poll had exhausted voters.  Would you considering doing both at the same time?

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3 hours ago, Alex said:

Are we doing Tag Teams again?  I didn't do 2016's poll for either, but will try in 2026, but it seemed like the Tag Team poll had exhausted voters.  Would you considering doing both at the same time?

No, tag team one failed last time. Less voters, less participation. Too much of an ask. 

If someone else wants to, they can feel free of course.

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2 minutes ago, Grimmas said:

No, tag team one failed last time. Less voters, less participation. Too much of an ask. 

It's better that way. I might be mistaken, but I don't think we did tag teams in 2006 either.

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Can we have a VG-like thing for sharing media?  I have a lot of Joshi I can share, but stuff like Zenjo Classics gets copyright strikes on Youtube.  

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I'm willing to do the work, it's just overwhelming to go to 10,000 places to just discuss and watch these matches. I wanted to be a more active participator in this project. I'm actively watching footage and talking about the footage I watched. 

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I'll wholly admit to not understanding Discord well. In my mind, watch sessions are important and create a sort of input, but the output to that input is a pinned down reference for people not there in the moment to be able to find even months or years later. I'm still making use of the GWE specific wrestler posts and the alphabetical list with links if I come across someone I'm not super familiar with in a match completely unrelated to any sort of GWE project. It's a great resource.

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