Jump to content
Pro Wrestling Only

2026 Ideas


Grimmas

Recommended Posts

General question as I debated voting last time but decided against it for a number of reasons. How many blindspots are voters comfortable with having while still submitting a ballot? And is your approach to deep dive one particular blindspot, or try to fill in a little of as many as possible?

I loved the 80s projects because regardless if people disagreed on Fujinami/Inoki making a set or whatever, it was guaranteed we were all working from the same starting point. The only time I ever tried to participate in a greatest wrestler list was the inaugural WKO100, and while that was fun it was more wrestling than I've ever watched in a year when I was single and had much less responsibility. And even then I juuust got to a level I was comfortable voting for one year, in a project that took itself much less seriously in scope and general tone.

Either way, even if they got a bit lost in the weeds at times, I really enjoyed all the conversations last time and it gave me a new level of respect for certain wrestlers, like Bockwinkel for example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 627
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Personally, I think if you have a comfortable level of knowledge/viewing of wrestling outside of WWF/WWE from, say, 1987 to present, then I wouldn't worry about feeling like you "haven't watched enough" or have "too many blindspots". Once you start feeling like you need to be a lucha expert, as well as a joshi expert and a shoot-style expert, and be able to go toe to toe with the most knowledgeable folks on this board, then it's no fun and the vote may as well be capped at 10 or so people with the most all-encompassing and eclectic wrestling knowledge 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Clayton Jones said:

General question as I debated voting last time but decided against it for a number of reasons. How many blindspots are voters comfortable with having while still submitting a ballot? And is your approach to deep dive one particular blindspot, or try to fill in a little of as many as possible?

I loved the 80s projects because regardless if people disagreed on Fujinami/Inoki making a set or whatever, it was guaranteed we were all working from the same starting point. The only time I ever tried to participate in a greatest wrestler list was the inaugural WKO100, and while that was fun it was more wrestling than I've ever watched in a year when I was single and had much less responsibility. And even then I juuust got to a level I was comfortable voting for one year, in a project that took itself much less seriously in scope and general tone.

Either way, even if they got a bit lost in the weeds at times, I really enjoyed all the conversations last time and it gave me a new level of respect for certain wrestlers, like Bockwinkel for example.

I for one know I will have a number of blind spots and I’ll probably be closer to trying to have surface level impressions of most important things. I submitted a ballot last time where I feel I may have had a little too many blind spots...but also I don’t care. Hope is that I submit a ballot to the best of my ability, other people with other blind spots do the same and things balance out.

Last time I also feel like I didn’t interact in threads with the best intentions as in I wanted to feel like I was participating without really having anything to say. I’m hoping I can at least chart where I’m at with various wrestlers a bit better this time around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Blind spots? Recording part of the GWE Launch Party podcast and with one of the guests we got into that topic. 

To me, it's impossible to be well versed in every wrestler and topic. Nobody is an expert on all types of music, there is just too much.

 

EDIT: WOS, Shoot style will not be got to from me at all in the next 5 years. I really only care about women's wrestling now and I have to fill in from 1992-2017 for joshi, all of luchadoras, and plus indies outside of Shimmer pre 2017.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Clayton Jones said:

General question as I debated voting last time but decided against it for a number of reasons. How many blindspots are voters comfortable with having while still submitting a ballot? And is your approach to deep dive one particular blindspot, or try to fill in a little of as many as possible?

I loved the 80s projects because regardless if people disagreed on Fujinami/Inoki making a set or whatever, it was guaranteed we were all working from the same starting point. The only time I ever tried to participate in a greatest wrestler list was the inaugural WKO100, and while that was fun it was more wrestling than I've ever watched in a year when I was single and had much less responsibility. And even then I juuust got to a level I was comfortable voting for one year, in a project that took itself much less seriously in scope and general tone.

Either way, even if they got a bit lost in the weeds at times, I really enjoyed all the conversations last time and it gave me a new level of respect for certain wrestlers, like Bockwinkel for example.

I think you should sample as many as possible and deep dive the ones that appeal to you. Ideally, you read a bunch of folks talking about Bockwinkel, it piques your interest, you check out a few of his matches and you want to see more. Then maybe you like a few of his opponents and you check out some of their matches, or you try to find workers similar to Bockwinkel. I don't see why this can't be an organic and enjoyable experience. It's much easier to do now than it was when we did the original list in '06. Back then we were limited to what we'd seen on tape or what some kind soul was prepared to upload for us. 

Unless you're strategically voting for a particular style (which I am against, fwiw), you don't have enough space to include every great worker you come across. If it's 50s wrestling, for example, you might want to watch Thesz, Gagne, Rogers, Schmidt, etc., but I don't think anyone's going to hold it against you if you don't get to Baron Michele Leon, Lord James Blears or Billy Goelz, to name drop a few. The onus is on folks who are familiar with those styles to make a compelling case for wrestlers you should watch. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have five years. Hopefully, we see a hundred different projects from dozens of different people in that time. I'm in a fortunate spot in that even though I've watched a ton of wrestling, I always sort of steered clear from certain things for various reasons, so I'm going through every single AJPW match in 89 (and probably 90) right now on DVDVR. After I'm done with that, I'm thinking of tracing Hashimoto's entire career which will help me come up with some NJPW 80s-90s avenues to explore, while still probably carrying Tenryu forward and exploring the rest of his career. We're obviously watching the French library chronologically on Segunda Caida. After that I'm very tempted to try to do something similar with WoS. I'm going to delve into Shocker's early 00s work and El Dandy from 89-93, and I'll learn what I'll learn about other wrestlers through that lens. I want a better grasp on shoot style since I wasn't comfortable including that last time. I'm not trying to cover every gap. I'm trying to hit wide swaths in the most enjoyable ways possible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That sounds very similar to my approach. And El Dandy is actually one of the key guys I would need to focus on. But yeah after going back and reading Cross Arm Breaker's awesome blog entries detailing his ballot VS the results, it made things feel much less daunting for me. 100 wrestlers all-time is actually a pretty exclusive list, and if push came to shove I'd be able to put a list together now that I'd feel pretty happy with. So if I watch on and off for the next 5 years with a focus on improving that list then there's no way I'll be disappointed by the end result. And also going back and reading things from last time reminds me that the journey is what I enjoy more than the conclusion, so why not commit to that at the very least? I much prefer watching wrestling with purpose rather than picking whatever catches my attention that day anyway. Just how I'm wired.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Clayton Jones said:

That sounds very similar to my approach. And El Dandy is actually one of the key guys I would need to focus on. But yeah after going back and reading Cross Arm Breaker's awesome blog entries detailing his ballot VS the results, it made things feel much less daunting for me. 100 wrestlers all-time is actually a pretty exclusive list, and if push came to shove I'd be able to put a list together now that I'd feel pretty happy with. So if I watch on and off for the next 5 years with a focus on improving that list then there's no way I'll be disappointed by the end result. And also going back and reading things from last time reminds me that the journey is what I enjoy more than the conclusion, so why not commit to that at the very least? I much prefer watching wrestling with purpose rather than picking whatever catches my attention that day anyway. Just how I'm wired.

 

I'd strongly encourage people to make rough drafts. Do it now before the project starts and then continue to do them as the project continues. It will help you figure out your top contenders, and your borderline people, and who you're super familiar with and who you need to watch more of and think about. Absolutely don't wait until the last week or day to start making a list. 

And do what OJ says above. Read the threads, ask for recommendations etc. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am watching early Zero1, 2005 US indie wrestling (excluding ROH) and 80s New Japan right now. And essentially what Matt D says is the way. We have 5 years! That's a lot of time. And in a lot of ways feels like no time at all because the 2016 list is something I think about so regularly lol. So now when someone offhandly says "2036" I don't think "15 years from now?!?!?!" I think, "Ah yes, I may have watched 2006 CMLL".

We are hopefully going to solidify opinions on people we like and fall in love with people we had no idea about. And since it is a ways out, we don't need to chug it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, elliott said:

I'd strongly encourage people to make rough drafts. Do it now before the project starts and then continue to do them as the project continues. It will help you figure out your top contenders, and your borderline people, and who you're super familiar with and who you need to watch more of and think about.

Exactly. This is what i've done already. I've made a rough draft of whom I'm comfortable having in a top 100 still from the last two Top 100, and adding some that aren't part of either lists (and that includes quit a bit of current workers). Let's be real, apart from when you deal with complete or mostly unknown spots, you're not gonna "discover" a satisfying top 20 ever worker out of a hat that has barely been discussed. I pretty much "know" who are most of the candidates for the top spots, excluding the following :

One of the questions for me is how are the best modern candidates gonna fit in that picture, as really some of the best pro-wrestling I've ever seen has happened in the last 3 or 4 years, from guys who already had some heavily pimped stuff for at least 5 or more years before and are still active at the top level (not to mention guys like Jay White or Fénix for instance, what are they gonna accomplish in the upcoming 5 years ?). Which is why, although it may seem almost a paradox, but really ins't at all, to me one of the main way of approaching this thing is closely following the modern stuff that I really enjoy as it happens.

Another question as I (re)visit joshi and hopefully lucha, how much of their candidates are gonna end up on the list and how many at the very top spots. I've been "studying" the previous Top 100 and it's quite interesting how things have evolved and why, and it says as much (if not much more) about the context of the process as about the greatness of the workers ending up on the lists, really. And if there's one thing striking is that in 2016, lucha libre barely made a dent compared to 10 years before while women wrestling pretty much got axed down, which was a real shame. One thing I'm actually looking forward to with @Grimmas wanting to make it more inclusive is how this will affect the result and what it will tell of the viewing habits and mediation (even more than tastes) of whoever ends up being the voting crew this time around.

But anyway, yeah, if you want to make it fun, make a draft. It doesn't mean things won't change (even drastically sometime maybe) and that some candidates are gonna shoot up while others are gonna disappear in the end, while other unexpected names will show up. Doesn't matter if the final list is very different (or not), but it sure helps as a tool. Sure helps me identify what can be fun to watch, what I want to watch, what I wont rewatch anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There has been a few solid contenders that will be/were probably not mentioned because they were in obscure promotions, even by PWO standards, or just are in promotions that have less than exciting reputations for serious pro wrestling, so exposing them as serious candidates is something that I would like to do (HARASHIMA, Konosuke Takeshita, Masaaki Mochizuki, etc). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/18/2021 at 11:04 PM, elliott said:

now I'm trying to find NEO and Jd' matches and I'm super excited about watching The Bloody and Yoshiko Tamura because I never gave them a real look back in the $20 per VHS tape days.

Damn. Now that's a name I haven't heard for about 20 years. I was like the biggest advocate and fan of Miss Naomi Kato back in the days. Gotta dig up those old tapes and a VCR !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Makai Club #1 said:

There has been a few solid contenders that will be/were probably not mentioned because they were in obscure promotions, even by PWO standards, or just are in promotions that have less than exciting reputations for serious pro wrestling, so exposing them as serious candidates is something that I would like to do (HARASHIMA, Konosuke Takeshita, Masaaki Mochizuki, etc). 

I'm in full support of this. Feeling like I didn't have the motivation to make the case for less prominent candidates (those are some good names, deathmatch guys come to mind as well, and more modern talent in general) was another reason I sat out last time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/22/2021 at 8:18 PM, elliott said:

 

I'd strongly encourage people to make rough drafts. Do it now before the project starts and then continue to do them as the project continues. It will help you figure out your top contenders, and your borderline people, and who you're super familiar with and who you need to watch more of and think about. Absolutely don't wait until the last week or day to start making a list. 

And do what OJ says above. Read the threads, ask for recommendations etc. 

I've basically been fiddling with my list ever since 2016, adding guys and moving people about, and I've found it's always a fluid thing depending on what I've been watching. For example, when I watched a bunch of CHIKARA, Quack and Kingston both leapt about 20 places before settling back to more reasonable positions. Something someone said in 2016 that still holds true is that you'll never have a definitive list, so you should consider your list a snapshot of who you believe the 100 greatest wrestlers ever are at the time you submit it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, El-P said:

Damn. Now that's a name I haven't heard for about 20 years. I was like the biggest advocate and fan of Miss Naomi Kato back in the days. Gotta dig up those old tapes and a VCR !

 

The Bloody is really impressive. She was a fantastic athlete and crazy bumper. I want to watch a lot more of her but she seems better than a number of people I voted for in 2016.  The future of Joshi looked so bright in the early 2000s. I was a big fan at the time but it holds up better than I expected. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, elliott said:

The Bloody is really impressive. She was a fantastic athlete and crazy bumper. I want to watch a lot more of her but she seems better than a number of people I voted for in 2016. 

I haven't watched her in almost 20 years and I wonder how I would enjoy her stuff today. I do remember the crazy bumps now that you mention it. But yeah, I was all about the Bloody in my last years of following joshi and buying tapes (well, and Yoshida, of course).

3 hours ago, elliott said:

The future of Joshi looked so bright in the early 2000s. I was a big fan at the time but it holds up better than I expected. 

To me it looked all bleak though. The scene was basically GAEA, which I always found to be overrated in term of output, and a bunch of zombie promotions. But there were really good up and coming workers for sure. I remember Yoshiko Tamura was coming into her own and turning into a really terrific worker then too. I'd fun to revisit some of this for sure.

Damn...

In other news, Rikidozan, here I come.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can understand how it would look bleak especially on the heels of the interpromotional era. Anything is going to look bleak compared to the literal best wrestling that has ever happened. When I look around the early 2000s Joshi landscape, I see a whole lot of good. Bull Nakano was gone and that's tragic, but the early retirements had in general stopped and you had people like CHigusa, Lioness, and Jaguar back. The the women from the greatest generation didn't retire right away anymore so you'd have these veterans in various promotions. Aja over here. LCO over there. Kyoko over here. Takako over there. And then the next generation has some really interesting wrestlers. Meiko Satomura, Chikayo Nagashima, The Bloody, Yoshiko Tamura, Ran Yu Yu, Misae Genki etc. Its a lot more spread out, but trying to look at the full picture there's a ton of really great wrestlers. 

I've been really surprised at how much I've liked some of this stuff. Its not like DreamSlam I level, but nothing is. I hope some of those folks get a real look ahead of 2026.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually watched a bit of early-to-mid 00s joshi towards the end of last year and quite enjoyed it. Joshi's never been my favourite style of wrestling and that is not an era I ever would've thought I'd have the urge to dive into, but I mostly went after the Mariko Yoshida stuff (to see if she was still as awesome as she was in the late 90s, and I'm not sure she was AS awesome but she definitely was still awesome) and that led me onto some Yoshiko Tamura and then a smattering of other girls whose names I honest to god couldn't tell you now even with a gun to my head. Not a chance I'd have dedicated any time to deep diving 00s joshi during the 2016 project, but I wouldn't be dead against it this time if elliot (or whoever else) is throwing out recommendations.

 

On another note, I've also been tweaking my 2016 list sporadically over the last five years and some parts of it are quite a bit different now compared to then. I just started a PhD and it's kicking the shit out of me already so who knows how much time I'll have to hit a bunch of blind spots over the next few years, but I've certainly hit some of the blind spots I had last time and I'll make a run at a few more before 2026 when I will nearly be 40 fucking years of age my goodness (no offence of course to any of the old(er) heads who are already there). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, NotJayTabb said:

I've basically been fiddling with my list ever since 2016, adding guys and moving people about, and I've found it's always a fluid thing depending on what I've been watching. For example, when I watched a bunch of CHIKARA, Quack and Kingston both leapt about 20 places before settling back to more reasonable positions. Something someone said in 2016 that still holds true is that you'll never have a definitive list, so you should consider your list a snapshot of who you believe the 100 greatest wrestlers ever are at the time you submit it.

Without going into too much detail, I had Eddie Kingston at 98 last time and was self conscious about including him at all. This time around he's going to be in my top 50, it's just a matter of how high I can get him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, elliott said:

I can understand how it would look bleak especially on the heels of the interpromotional era. Anything is going to look bleak compared to the literal best wrestling that has ever happened. When I look around the early 2000s Joshi landscape, I see a whole lot of good. Bull Nakano was gone and that's tragic, but the early retirements had in general stopped and you had people like CHigusa, Lioness, and Jaguar back. The the women from the greatest generation didn't retire right away anymore so you'd have these veterans in various promotions. Aja over here. LCO over there. Kyoko over here. Takako over there. And then the next generation has some really interesting wrestlers. Meiko Satomura, Chikayo Nagashima, The Bloody, Yoshiko Tamura, Ran Yu Yu, Misae Genki etc. Its a lot more spread out, but trying to look at the full picture there's a ton of really great wrestlers. 

I've been really surprised at how much I've liked some of this stuff. Its not like DreamSlam I level, but nothing is. I hope some of those folks get a real look ahead of 2026.

I find it easier to appreciate things in retrospect, especially 20 years later. Joshi was a hell of a lot more promising in the early 00s than the male promotions. There was a time when it felt like Hamada, Satomura and Nakanishi were going to carry the banner for Joshi as the next generation. It felt apart pretty quickly, but the early 00s were full of promise and a renaissance of sorts for Japanese women's wrestling. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Clayton Jones said:

a few solid contenders that will be/were probably not mentioned because they were in obscure promotions

I can't see myself going this route. I just don't believe obscure people have any claim to "Greatest". 

They may well be the "best". I'm sure there were better boxers than Mohammed Ali, too. But you don't have to dig for the "greats", they loom large on the landscape and often eclipse it. Some of the "nominees" last time were mind-boggling. It's an exclusive club, not an inclusive one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Top 100 in ring performers based on available footage" doesn't have as good a ring to it as "Greatest Wrestler Ever", but thats really the point of the project the way I see it. Otherwise why bother watching anything and waiting till 2026 because its Hogan #1 project over. Thats no fun :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Which of the greats was the best in-ring?" is sorta the way I'm looking at it. My starting criteria for inclusion, and first-draft heading, is We Built This Motherfucking City, and I can only come up with forty dead-certs and forty-five hmmmmms at the moment.

Otherwise I feel like I'm ranking toeholds and dropkicks, which would be dry as the dead dingo's donger I've mentioned previously (it's the only simile I have), and that would be no fun :). I just cannot take the Pro out of this equation, and can only approach this as the Greatest PRO Wrestler Ever. If that invalidates my final submission, I'll still have enjoyed my time watching pro-wrestling

1 hour ago, elliott said:

its Hogan #1 project over

On the other side of the coin, it's Danny Hodge project over, or one of the grapplefuck shootsyle guys project over;). It's a tough one to balance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...