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Your Criteria/Process/Method at the Start of the 2026 Cycle

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I thought it would be interesting if people checked in with their criteria/process/method here at the start of the cycle. This could be what they're looking for, how they're judging/rating wrestlers, how they're planning on going about things, etc.

I'm going to focus a bit more on process/method/purpose here, though criteria is absolutely tied in. It's just a little harder to pin down for reasons you'll hopefully see, and this will already be a lot to cover. Also note that I say at the start of the cycle as this is a journey for all of us and we'll be honing things as we go over the next five years. Finally, while I'd encourage people to interact with one another, be curious and interested, point out holes constructively, etc., I don't think this is the right place for heavy combativeness. Our starting point here has to be that everyone is operating in good faith.

So that brings us to where I am now:

In judging/ranking a wrestler, I am focused primarily on two things: the wrestler's philosophy/understanding/mastery of the craft/art/performance/occupation/sport of pro wrestling and how well they accomplish/execute/manifest/deliver upon it. In order to judge that, I need to utilize footage to understand the wrestler as much as possible. This means I want to examine a wrestler throughout their career, in all sorts of situations, against all sorts of opponents. The more scenarios I have, the better I can see how a wrestler acts and reacts, and the better I can synergize what I see. Having multiple instances of the same situation is also useful because it reinforces what I'm seeing and allows me to look for slight variations.

So yes, I want to see a wrestler in a great match, but I also want to see them in a squash match. I want to see them in their prime, but I also want to see them dealing with a physical limitation to see how they react and respond and adapt. I want to see them in their home territory, but I also want to see them in front of an unfamiliar crowd. I want to see them in singles, in tags, in gimmick matches, in short TV matches. I want to see them open a show and end a show. I want to see them as a face and a heel, against similar opponents and wildly different ones, against the same opponent multiple times if possible. Ideally I'll see everything there is to see, but as that's not possible, I'll be looking to cover as many situations as I can, and as many as i need to feel confident in what I'm doing. I'm trying to reach a Holistic Situational Understanding of a wrestler (which sounds better than Situational Holistic Understanding, even if that has a better, lucha-based acronym).

Flaws/concerns/comments:

Obviously, this is an arrogant approach to a degree. There are things we aren't going to know with most wrestlers, but it's all ultimately based on footage. Where I supplement with other knowledge, I still have to connect that to the footage. Maybe I'd be reading too much into things in that moment, but for my list, it's going to be consistent across all wrestlers. I'm taking everyone equally and trying to achieve the best understanding possible based on what can be seen in the footage. As for the arrogance of it, the idea that I can reach any understanding on any wrestler, first, that pushes me and drives me to do my best and to really think things through and do my home work. The journey matters more as we so often say. Second, my list will sometimes have someone ranked lower if I feel like I can't understand them as well due to lack of footage. They'll still be represented but that's an element. I don't necessarily need to understand every point of their career, but if I feel like I'm missing data points that I might have if footage existed, there might be a lower ceiling for them. They may be somewhat handicapped based on my limitations.

This is not a "peak" approach or a "longevity" approach. Longevity gives me more data points to work off of. I'm not looking for who was the greatest wrestler for a short period of time. I'm looking who was the greatest wrestler ever based on the above approach and method. Likely, people who were brilliant for a short period of time because they were able to channel their physical gifts in their physical prime but were then not able to adapt will do worse on my list than those that were able to adapt, but that is, I think, consistent with the above.

Along similar lines, some might say it undervalues execution. I'd argue otherwise as I'm focused on whether or not the wrestler could achieve their ends as much as I'm focused on the perceived value of those ends. It balances the two instead of focusing primarily on execution (or workrate or anything else). Both thought and action are represented.

Great matches are important, but that's heavily based on opportunity and just one part of the equation. Overall greatness should happen across multiple situations, ALL situations if possible, even if constrained and contained. They're important but no more important than being effective in a TV studio or in front of a live crowd in an unfilmed setting relative to what they were tasked to achieve in that setting. Not every wrestler had the same career, so everything is taken into account. I'll have more data points in more situations for wrestlers who had more opportunities and that's going to allow me a more complete understanding. At the end of the day, we're not looking at What Ifs? but at the footage. I will say that "ability to perform well in big matches" is no more or less important than "ability to perform well in small matches" to me, so the idea of "one of the best big match workers ever" isn't going to automatically be more important than "one of the best ten minute tv workers ever." In some ways, the level of difficulty is higher with the latter.

So that brings me to the elephant in the room on this (past the arrogance, so much arrogance): once I feel like I do understand two wrestlers as noted above, how do I rate one against the other? What's the actual criteria here? And that I'm still working on. It's not as simple as me agreeing with their philosophy/understanding/mastery of the craft/art/performance/occupation/sport of pro wrestling but it does align with what I think is the best/greatest of that. And that's something that can be developed and expanded upon over the next five years, which is why this post is more about process/method/mindset/goals than actual criteria.

So, what do you got?

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Biggest thing I need to remind myself throughout this process is there is too much shit out there to cover.  2006 had questions of whether there were 100 great wrestlers to begin with. 2016 rectified that but I do think I leaned to heavy on historically perspective than looking at modern candidates or certain candidates within a style specialization. I continually want to feel good about each of rankings and I do take this process serious (too serious at points) that I also have a desire to have acclaim and justification by others thinking the same way. 2001 is a great example of that. So far in 2021, I have watched over 1,000 2001 matches and I am only into June for the year overall. I feel really good about the top of my WOTY list for this given year at this moment in time. However, OJ has watched much of the same stuff and we have wild differences of opinion.  I respect OJ and have to accept that no one person can be an overall authority on any given topic or wrestler in regards to wrestling.  That doesn't mean that I devalue persuasive viewpoints.  I am still really intrigued to hear a detailed argument for someone considering Hokuto as #1 for example. 

My method until 2026 is to just plug away at the years/footage that I want to watch. These lists will be a "moment in time" projection no matter what. I am coming more and more to the realization that my true enjoyment of pro wrestling died with the Villano III Jr. vs Aereo apuestas match right before COVID took a stranglehold on the world. Sure in the next five years, someone like Takeshita may revolutionize modern wrestling and get me invested again but the lingering thoughts of Ospreay, Omega, etc dominating the scene for the next five years is not the type of wrestling I really want to invest and become embedded with.  So I will stick to the years project that I am working on.  WIth my increased organization over the last few years, I can still feel pretty good about my overall narratives of those years watched.  It has been 2 years since I finished 2000, but I still feel pretty comfortable with that year overall.  Right now I am in 2001 and 1983.  After that?  Who knows as I am itching to maybe jump to a year like 1992.  I do like the years approach as they help fill in the gaps. I think most of the high point arguments for each candidate are known but I do really like that week to week viewpoint.  It can hinder some workers that I adore (Casas 2001 for example) but it also elevates other with surprises in my eyes (Misawa and Santo 2001). Overall, it gives me more comfort in concluding stuff that "Casas took a back seat in trios for the most part in 2001 up until June and wasn't given opportunities to shine".  That is compared to some generalized statements you see and I am guilty of as "Imagine how great Casas 1986 was if we had weekly footage."  That is possibly the case that the footage would show that but it isn't definite. In the above where Casas has been in the background in 2001 so far, I think this is where my barometer is more strict compared to someone like Matt where I would penalize Casas for that and say even though he didn't get the opportunities, I do expect more for someone still in their general athletic prime than a top 80 performance as WOTY.  This is an extreme case but Casas is someone bantered about as a #1 contender too so I do believe he will be someone with increased scrutiny.  Finally, I do weigh big performances more than others. I still in my head can't equate arguments like Kawada's 12/3/93 selling and put it on equal footing with conclusions I agree with like "Bill DUndee is the best studio tv worker in history".  The latter gets Dundee on my list but only to a certain point.  The former puts Kawada in contention for top 20 and where I like to hear arguments centered around him as #1.  This is perhaps a fault of mine currently but I do see it as too close of a prickly path where you can conclude that Sable had the 2nd best reactions of anyone in WWF in 1998 which is one of their most successful years so she deserves a spot on the list. 

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Currently I am on two tracks. I started off watching everything from 1983 with the idea that I will make a list of the top workers from that year and then do that for other years. I took a detour after I read the Alexa Bliss thread and got the idea that I should watch a selection of her matches. I ended up watching 35 Alexa Bliss matches, mostly of her working 10-15 minute ppv singles matches but also of her against different opponents with different levels of talent, in tags and multi-person matches and tv matches. Now I am working my way through about 60 Sean Waltman matches. I will go back to 1983 but I suspect I will find watching a career will be more useful and less time consuming than watching an entire year. I know my interest in this project will go through peaks and valleys and I won't get to every worker that I want to explore, which is very frustrating for me as a completist. Right now I am choosing people based on the footage that is available to me and if I can put together a list of their matches spanning their entire career.

I have not exactly developed a criteria yet. I mean, right now it is pretty clear that I would rank Waltman over Bliss because he had more good matches and he was a more dynamic worker. I don't know how well that criteria will hold up when I throw more people into the mix.

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I started last year going through all the joshi from the 1980s (the main stuff) and starting in 1990 very thoroughly and I'm up to 1992. By 2026 I hope to get caught up to 2017 when I started watching. The Shimmer pod is getting me through that footage which is important. Outside of that, there is a few other folks I need to explore which will happen whenever, plus the Watch Parties and putting together those playlists will help. That's my plan for footage watching.

This time I am more focused on how great someone is at wrestling and less focused on the greatness of their career. To me, someone who is a 9 for 4 years will rank higher than someone who was an 8 for 7 years. 

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When it comes to watching footage, I have a decent idea of what I want to do.  I enjoy modern wrestling, so 2021-2026 footage takes care of itself and I won't really be taking my foot off the peddle on that front.  However I'll be trying my best to avoiding rewatching matches I've already seen before and instead focus on the wrestlers, promotions and eras I've barely scratched the surface on.  The watch parties are great for getting a taster on a wrestler and if I like what I see, I'll keep watching more footage like I have done with Mercedes Martinez this week.  I know what I'm like with big projects, and if I say well I'll focus on joshi for the rest of 2021, then lucha in 2022 it won't work.  I'm more comfortable with the idea of focusing on one wrestler and watching them for a week with different snapshots of their career than daunting projects that take months to get through. 

When it comes to judging wrestlers and list placing, I haven't given it much thought yet, but I guess that comes secondary to footage watching and I have years before I need to make a decision on that.  I really like Matt's point about greatest being shown in how a wrestler does in multiple situations and that's something I'll be weighing into my rankings come 2026.

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I love this topic. I have a lot of catching up to do on numerous fronts and want to give unfamiliar styles and candidates a fair shake. I've been trying to take a multi-pronged approach to make decent progress.

1) Keep a list of wrestlers that I need to watch more of; decide on 2-3 to focus on for some time. Watch their recommended matches in the Google doc and other famous matches, plus just watch some matches taken at random.

2) I am also participating in Greatest Matches Ever, so I want to cover matches that have ranked highly that I haven't seen. Sometimes that will happen organically from the wrestlers I am focusing on, but sometimes I will just grab a match from that nomination list.

3) Have a long term watching project to fall back on (e.g. AJW classics)

4) Attend the Saturday Watch Parties to give me a taste of a candidate and a chance to chat with others, and follow up as needed.

Having a few different wrestlers to focus on helps me assess wrestlers against each other and is letting me make new discoveries. And having a number of different avenues is keeping things fresh for me.  I realized already that this variety works better for me than a deep dive, at least right now.

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I've got a lot of catching up to do on various eras, promotions, styles, etc. So I outlined a rough plan to do so. Right now I'm watching comps for 80s Memphis, AJPW, NJPW & Lucha. I'll watch a couple discs of one then move onto the next so I don't get burned out on any one style. Next year I want to fill in some WWE gaps, take another look at my ROH collection & check out Portland & AWA, and so on. I may switch things up, focus on a candidate that interests me along the way, but having some semblance of a plan will help me see if I'm on track. 

I'm rating matches from each comp as I go, but I am trying to decide how to keep better track of candidates that appear in many different places. I am keeping a working list and will move candidates up & down it, but I don't add anyone until I feel like I've seen enough to consider them so it's nearly worthless now.

Lastly, I'm not going to beat myself up about it. I want to watch as much as I can because I enjoy watching wrestling & want to see new stuff. I'm taking the project seriously & I'll consider everyone I can, but if it's more about the journey than the destination (and I believe it is) if I can't get to everything or something derails me hopefully I'll have still seen a bunch of great new stuff. At least I'm saying that with 5 years left.

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I'm judging 90% on bell to bell performance as objective as I can. I really like how Matt stresses the craft of being a pro wrestler and developing and utilizing a toolbox. I'm trying to incorporate that mindset as much as possible. I'm giving myself 10% leeway to judge whatever subjectively I think helps contribute to being a great wrestler. Promos, presence, innovation, influence, elevating a promotion or division or feud to something I have to watch even if it's for reasons beyond bell to bell, really whatever tickles my fancy. This is hardly an exact ratio and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up more like 95/5, but either way it's my method to give me a sense that my personal touch can break a tie or a close call.

I'm going to build up far far more than I'm going to tear down. I'm sick of dwelling on the negative. I understand the argument against positivity's for positivity's sake and the modern trend more in this direction. And I don't entirely disagree. But I'm doing this to enjoy myself, not to get worked up arguing about a hobby I use to decompress.

I have a working list that is at 160 right now. When it hits 180 no more names are getting added for consideration for 2026. Even that's probably too ambitious but it at least puts some sort of limit on things. 180 was based on the rate of footage I was watching for a stretch, although after my daughter brought home a case of strep from daycare and then the worst stomach bug I've ever seen weeks before I started a new job, I realized I'm going to lose a month here and there in the blink of an eye.

Which brings me to my last personal rule, which is basically Zubaz's "Don't Beat Yourself Up" rule. If I had to turn in the ballot I have right now at the end of today, I'm fine with that. I'm going to do the best I can while enjoying the project as much as possible and staying as present in my real life as possible. Some months I'll be banging footage out, some months I'll be managing a sick ward, some months I'll be starting a new job. Just trying to find a balance and keep it fun.

The vast majority of that doesn't touch criteria. I'm trying to develop that more as I watch footage with GWE26 in mind, but that's still very much a work in progress. I'll check in as it becomes more clear to me.

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Great topic. I feel predefining selection criteria is a key element as it allows prioritization of what people truly value and makes the actual ranking feel less arbitrary. Matt D's approach is an extremely rigorous one and I respect the commitment behind it but something like that might not be suitable for everyone.

For instance, in general, I am going to heavily emphasize high-end output, since that to me is the most important thing in wrestling. It won't be as simple as "who has the most great matches" but will be sort of like a top-down approach and account for more objective metrics (variety of opponents, settings worked, roles played, styles mastered) to intangible, subjective components (contribution to match greatness through selling, offense etc.). This would help factor different elements into consideration while keeping the focus on the main thing, i.e., quality and volume of top matches. 

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I'm finding watching someone's greatest hits easiest. I find the group watches really really helpful and I like watching the high end output like Micro. I also am going to taking slowly to start and then ramp it up when I have more time at certain points of the year

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- What do they look like on their best night?
- What do they look like on their worst night?
- What do they look like on an average night?
- What did we get the most of?

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Right now I'm in the weeding out portion of making my list. I started out with about 70 or 80 wrestlers who A. have a good shot of making my final list and B. I know well enough that I'd feel comfortable voting for them if we turned ballots in today. Along with that I put together another group of about 300ish wrestlers who fall somewhere in the spectrum of "I'm fairly familiar with this wrestler and know how I feel about their career" and so far I've been whittling that list down to a more reasonable number. Generally what that means is watching a few dozen of their most famous, well-regarded matches or at least matches from their most notable runs and giving a simple pass or fail grade based on whether they have any real chance at making the top 100 if I do a deeper dive on them later in this process.

What I find myself looking for most often are moments of transcendence, which isn't just exciting performances in big matches. It can be how someone carries themselves in a post-match angle or how they interact with the crowd on a smaller show or what they do when a match goes south. What I want is an indication that somebody is more than just a person who learned how to do a scoop slam that didn't kill anybody and was charming enough to appeal to children, something that indicates an exceptional quality of some kind.

A lot of times that can simply mean taking me by surprise, subverting a preconceived notion I had about them going into a match. I was watching some Rick Rude stuff recently for this project and found myself sort of wowed by how fun and engaging Hacksaw Jim Duggan was in this random SNME match, in spite of never having any sort of love for the guy in the decade plus that I've been watching wrestling. So all of a sudden he's going on the list of people I want to dive deeper into.

In that vein I'm also keeping in mind that I'm going to keep running into these wrestlers I'm deleting from the big list as I do deeper dives into the ones that remain. I think it's useful to stay open to the idea that someone could creep back into consideration later on in this process and not get hung up on the fact that I went "hmmm, naw" back in 2021.

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I have started a new process, doing it on the Maybe Not Taue podcast.

I'm going to rank the top 25 wrestlers of each year, as far back as I can until 2025. Then use a weighted system to form my initial master list. Obviously intangibles will affect things after that, but that will be my starting point.

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In the Bruno Sammartino thread @CurtainJerker had a great post that has got me thinking. I didn't want to derail the Bruno thread so I wanted to reply to it here. I have lots of random thoughts so I thought it was best to have some fun and respond to it like its tOA in 1999. :)

Here's the original post

 

https://forums.prowrestlingonly.com/topic/28765-bruno-sammartino/?do=findComment&comment=5967701 

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I do agree that everyone has an argument, and I did not mean to be controversial in any way. I have a feeling many others have hesitations about where to fit such popular stars. I hope discussions here, the official GWE podcast. and Discord channel can make things more clear to me on what I am judging when I watch video.

 

Oh I dont think its controversial to not vote for Hogan, Dusty, Rock, Bruno types. The best any of them did is 75th (Hogan, and he was still behind Brian Pillman & Kurt Angle). I think proposing those top guys are great in ring performers is gonna be more controversial for a lot of people :)
 

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It's a different debate/thread and I haven't made up my mind for sure, and I certainly don't want to gatekeep anyone's choices, but to me Hogan and Rock are so dependent on their total career value, drawing power, pops, booking, big moment opportunities, mic work, storylines, access to the best opponents, and marketing that if I just focus on in-ring, there are probably 100 wrestlers who were better. Tito Santana was a better wrestler than Hogan, unless we insist it was Hogan's psychology that made him millions and not his looks or booking. I do appreciate Hogan's selling and the Rock's timing. Both are masters of psychology, and I still am befuddled how to account this list for crowd connection.

 

 

I think Hogan's psychology & talent had a ton to do with why he became literally the biggest star in the history of wrestling. It was definitely not just the looks & the booking. If it was, there would've have been more stars on the level of Hulk Hogan. Lord knows they tried to create more but they could neve replicate the magic, because Hogan had the looks & and the booking but as importantly Hogan was also a great pro-wrestler. All the great booking, marketing and mic work don't mean anything if you can't perform when the bell rings. Hogan brought the goods. He was great at selling, phenomenal puncher. Really excelled in 10-15 minute sprints. He was a better athlete than we remember. More than willing to bleed. Underrated tag wrestler. He's awesome working the apron and waiting for the hot tag. Like one of the best apron workers of all time. Great on the hot tag too. His offense is limited but its good. The punches look good, the big boot often looks good, his body slam is perfection, great atomic drop, good lariat, I have no issues with the leg drop either. He'd mix in other stuff too on occasion (suplexes or backbreakers) and it tends to look good because Hulk Hogan wasn't gonna try and do stuff that he couldn't do. There are pros & cons to this for sure that we could get into if necessary. When he did step outside of his comfort zone he showed he could do more than what Vince asked him to. 

Rock you could argue became a huge star in spite of the booking. Nobody looks back at the Russo Era fondly for the booking. After Russo left HHH really rose to power and he wasn't trying to do The Rock any favors. Rock's 1999 PPVs look like this:
Rumble - Beat Foley

St Valentine's Day - Double KO w/ Foley

WrestleMania - Loss to Austin

Backlash - Loss to Austin

Ove the Edge - Beat HHH by DQ

King of the Ring - Loss to Undertaker

Fully Loaded - Loss to HHH in a No DQ Strap Match

SummerSlam - Beat Billy Gunn in a "Kiss My Ass" match 

Unforgiven - Loss to HHH in  6 pack challenge also in the match Mankind, Big Show, Davey Boy Smith, Kane 

No Mercy - Beat Davey Boy Smith 

Survivor Series - Loss to Big Show (HHH also in match and to be fair HHH took the fall amazingly)

Armageddon - teaming with Foley beat New Age Outlaws

This is not the big match resume' of someone who is benefitting from a ton of booking & access to quality opponents. 

Rock was an incredible athlete & bumper for his size. He understood how to work heel & babyface and how to adjust his ring work accordingly, even in the same match if necessary. Underrated offensive wrestler at different stages of his career. Knew how to change up based on his opponent. He didn't work the same against Austin as he did Hogan as he did Kurt Angle as he did against HHH. 

I would push back on the idea that they had "access to the best opponents." Hogan definitely got to wrestle some great opponents in his prime. Bockwinkel & Savage the obvious ones, I think Orndorff is really underrated & Piper eve more so. But he had to work with a lot of bad-mediocre wrestlers too. I love King Kong Bundy but they were trying to make the 2nd biggest show in wrestling history happen and Bundy was Hogan's opponent. I would argue that Ric Flair consistently got to work with a higher level of opponent than Hogan did. When HOgan was against good opponents, he had good to great matches. He gave some people the best match of their career: Kamala, Ultimate Warrior, Tenta, Bossman. 

Rock probably peaks around 2001. He has 4 matches that year opposite Shane McMahon not Jun Akiyama. His career rivals are Austin (great) and HHH (the worst). Rock wasn't Flair or  Misawa out there working with Kenta Kobashi and Ricky Steamboat for the better part of a decade. 

 

 

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If crowd connection is such a valued attribute, then our lists would be the most popular wrestlers of all time. Or if it was based on titles, main events, and awards, I'd just copy + paste my spreadsheet that ranks that, and give it to Flair, Thesz, Londos, Bruno, Hogan, and friends.

 

Its not just about crowd connection. And no one is talking about titles or awards. Its about the work & performance. Connecting with the crowd is certainly part of that. I think connecting with the crowd is a more important trait or skill a for pro-wrestler than doing the smoothest dropkick or the best bridge on a german suplex. :)
 

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I think, say, Rick Steamboat does everything better than Hogan/Rock except make more money, and if I was doing some kind of draft the only reason why I'd choose Hulk or Rock over Steamboat would be because of charisma/drawing power, not because of wrestling skill.

 

RIcky Steamboat doesn't work heel better than Hogan or Rock. I'm not sure I'd say Steamboat is a better brawler. Hogan got over better & has better matches in Japan than Steamboat. And that's not an access to opponents thing unless you want to argue Inoki or the Road Warriors are better wrestlers than Flair, Tenryu & Misawa. If I were doing some kind of draft I'd choose Rock or Hogan over Steamboat because I'd be able to hire an army of Steamboats with all the money I rake in with HOgan or Rock :) But thats not what this project is about. This project is about the performance. 
 

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 In my world, Bob Orton, Jr and Paul Orndorff actually wrestled better than Hogan in the 1980s. X-Pac was technically better than The Rock in the 1990s. I view Bob Backlund as being more of an "actual" pro wrestler than an entertaining strong man like Hogan, just as Dory Funk, Jr. is more "technical" than Bruno. Pat Patterson was probably a better ring general and bump taker. Terry Funk once observed that joshi he saw were better than the men- they "did more", were faster, had innovative highspots, worked stiffer, showed more toughness, etc. In a vacuum, Hogan, Rock, Dusty, Bruno, and Austin are rough around the edges in ring, more comparable to Mid South Jim Duggan or The Crusher than to all around, classic athletic performers like pre-Model Rick Martel or Jack Brisco. Those rough guys had more exciting matches, though. So excuse my ramblings.

Everyone you mentioned here has a strong chance to make my list other than Crusher or Dory Funk Jr. :)

I got room for Abdullah the Butcher and Rick Martel. 

 

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