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JerryvonKramer

Comparing Numbers of Shows Per Era

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My goodness, Florida in the 70's. Holy crap. WWF from 85-90 is on another level too. Imagine being caught up in that on the roster at the time.

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How many Florida dates did Jack Brisco continue to work after he became world champ? Because combine the NWA world champ schedule and this Florida schedule and it is easy to see why he was so burnt out as champ, he flat out refused to keep holding it after a couple of years. 

WWF 1985-90 has to be much worse just because of how they worked the entire country and did not really tour in loops, so they could literally work all timezones over one weekend

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Were Mid-Atlantic and Florida running multiple crews in the 70ies or were they just doing double-shots nightly (or at least every other night)? Also Amarillo ran lots of shows considering what I know (or at least think to know) of the area of their territory (relatively sparsely populated, huge area).

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I remember Ric Flair saying in interviews that in the 80s, it wasn't rare that Mid-Atlantic were running 2 shows on Saturdays and Sundays.

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37 minutes ago, Robert S said:

Were Mid-Atlantic and Florida running multiple crews in the 70ies or were they just doing double-shots nightly (or at least every other night)? Also Amarillo ran lots of shows considering what I know (or at least think to know) of the area of their territory (relatively sparsely populated, huge area).

Kris Zellner and Barry Rose did a series of podcasts on Florida. It sounds like they ran weekly circuits of the towns in FL but had split crews. So Barry I believed lived in the town that got the B crew every week.

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7 hours ago, MoS said:

How many Florida dates did Jack Brisco continue to work after he became world champ? Because combine the NWA world champ schedule and this Florida schedule and it is easy to see why he was so burnt out as champ, he flat out refused to keep holding it after a couple of years. 

WWF 1985-90 has to be much worse just because of how they worked the entire country and did not really tour in loops, so they could literally work all timezones over one weekend

WWF had A/B/C tours during that time. You would have Hogan headlining the A show in the big towns,   the B shows would be in mid size towns headlined by either Savage or the tag champs, and then you'd have C shows running in high school gym type venues and headlined by midcarder/JTTS types Looking up the year by year listings on like Graham Cawthon's site had some real "who TF would have paid money to go see this show" entries.

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So were towns like San Francisco, St. Louis, LA, Toronto, and Detroit each their own independent territory like Memphis? Or were they more like Houston where it was a regular spot show featuring talent and feuds from nearby territories?  

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I read recently that match-quality wasn't a concern for WWF management at that time. Don't push yourself too hard, don't get hurt, just make the next town. 

Then, now, forever?

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3 hours ago, sek69 said:

WWF had A/B/C tours during that time. You would have Hogan headlining the A show in the big towns,   the B shows would be in mid size towns headlined by either Savage or the tag champs, and then you'd have C shows running in high school gym type venues and headlined by midcarder/JTTS types Looking up the year by year listings on like Graham Cawthon's site had some real "who TF would have paid money to go see this show" entries.

Yeah but the flipside to this was that someone like Hogan, who only wrestled the big cities, often had to criss-cross the country, especially as he was the battering ram Vince used to break into so many open and contested territories. 

The C-show circuits featured just terrible cards though, yeah. I guess they got away with it because there were several generation of fans who were just used to going out and attending a wresting show once a month, no matter how bad the card was. Wrestling was just more of a way of life for a far bigger number of fans than it is now 

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2 hours ago, joeg said:

So were towns like San Francisco, St. Louis, LA, Toronto, and Detroit each their own independent territory like Memphis? Or were they more like Houston where it was a regular spot show featuring talent and feuds from nearby territories?  

San Francisco was a proper territory run by Roy Shires, their key venue was the Cow Palace but they ran many smaller shows. The official  name for San Francisco was “Pacific Coast” or “Big Time Wrestling”. Pat Patterson was one of its biggest stars.

 

LA was a proper territory run by Mike Labell, their key venue was the Grand Olympic, but they ran shows all over. It was called “NWA Hollywood.” Big stars were Fred Blassie and John Tolos.

 

Detroit was a proper territory run by The Sheik, confusingly this was also called Big Time Wrestling and even more confusingly The Sheik had a working relationship co-promotional deal with Roy Shires’s Big Time Wrestling. There’s an old podcast series somewhere featuring The Sheik’s son going through all the cards. Their key venue was Cobo Arena.

 

Toronto was called Maple Leaf Wrestling and it was run by the Tunneys. This seems to have been more like Houston where guest stars would come in. Bruno worked up there. It’s also why those Maple Leaf Gardens shows plugged so easily into WWF programming down the line.

 

St Louis was a “special” office, because it was run by Sam Muchnick who was usually the NWA President. St Louis was a prestige venue where the NWA Champion would often defend the title on sort of “super cards” at the Kiel. It’s official name was the St Louis Wrestling Club and Wrestling at the Chase was a prestige TV show. The Missouri Heavyweight Champion was seen as a stepping stone to be NWA champ and anyone who held that title was seen as a “made man”. I recall listening to a very long and interesting podcast series by Larry Matysik on this, don’t know if it’s still available but it’s an education if you can find it. 

 

 

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Here's a map of the old territory system.

NWA_Professional_Wrestling_Territories.p

It should be noted that the boundaries were fluid and not universally agreed upon. For example, Sheik considered Ohio part of his territory when GCW started running shows there. He retaliated by appearing for the opposition group in Georgia headed by Jim Wilson and Thunderbolt Patterson and was suspended from the NWA as a result.

By the way, Toronto was actually a Crockett town in the late 70s and early 80s. By the mid-70s, Sheik had killed the town to the point where even Sammartino title defenses didn't draw. It was Flair and Steamboat who turned things around. In 1984, Jim Crockett became convinced that Jack Tunney was planning on switching his allegiance to the WWF. He thus stopped sending top talent to Toronto and gave them guys like Jimmy Valiant and Paul Jones instead. Business fell to the point where Tunney had no choice but to join up with Vince, so it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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How exactly did the Toronto booking work? Would Tunney “lease” his venues to Sheik/ Crockett / Vince?

 

Also I’d heard about Sheik burning out Detroit but not Toronto. What’s the story there?

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1 hour ago, JerryvonKramer said:

How exactly did the Toronto booking work? Would Tunney “lease” his venues to Sheik/ Crockett / Vince?

 

Also I’d heard about Sheik burning out Detroit but not Toronto. What’s the story there?

Basically, whoever controlled Maple Leaf Gardens controlled the Toronto territory and from around 1940 onward, that was the Tunney family.  Frank Tunney had the exclusive right to book the Gardens.  Whipper Billy Watson was pretty much the main star in Toronto and from what I understand he and Tunney were handling the booking. There were big matches here in Toronto featuring Watson and Lou Thesz and the like. Starting in the late 60's/early 70's, Tunney reached an agreement with The Sheik.  From what I understand, he pretty much let The Sheik book his own angles. When I was a little kid, The Sheik used to wrestle at The Gardens around once a month and I think the shows drew pretty well.  The problem is, they eventually became extremely formulaic. Some babyface would get hot, he would challenge The Sheik for his U.S. Title, and The Sheik would always escape with the title by getting disqualified for stabbing his opponent with a pencil or throwing a fireball or something like that.

From what my Uncle told me (this was before my time, I was only a little kid at this point) the fans started to get tired of The Sheik never getting his comeuppance and the general attitude among fans was that there was no point in going to Maple Leaf Gardens to see The Sheik because you knew he was never going to lose.  I guess one of the straws that broke the camel's back was when The Sheik fought Andre The Giant in the mid 70's.  From what I have heard, Andre was really starting to get famous in Canada based on his time in Montreal, and everybody figured when he came to Toronto he would be the one who would finally put an end to The Sheik's reign of terror. My Uncle told me (and this might just be his memory, who knows) that Maple Leaf Gardens was actually sold out for The Sheik vs. Andre The Giant but once again...The Sheik lost by DQ only.  After that, I think business went into the dumper. From what I recall, The Sheik ended up bringing in some of his own guys and eventually even did a pinfall job to Bobo Brazil, but by that point it was too little, too late. Thanks to his repetitive booking and refusal to lose to anybody, The Sheik pretty much killed Toronto dead as a territory.

At that point, The Sheik and Frank Tunney ended up falling out and parted ways, and The Sheik actually ended up going to work for "Wildman" Dave McKigney and his "outlaw" Big Bear Sports promotion.  They used to run shows in all the little towns around the Toronto area during the summer months when I was a kid, and they would draw a few hundred fans.  Those shows usually only featured 5 matches or so...and would always have The Sheik fighting somebody like Whipper Watson Jr. and then Dave McKigney as "The Bearman" wrestling a bear. Dave McKigney is kind of infamous in the Toronto territory because the bear he used to keep ended up going nuts and mauling his wife to death.  McKigney was killed in the same accident that killed Adrian Adonis and Pat Kelly of The Kelly Twins.

After The Sheik, Toronto was still closely associated with the NWA. In February 1977, Harley Race beat Terry Funk for the NWA World's Heavyweight Championship in Toronto at Maple Leaf Gardens, but from what I understand there was a period between when The Sheik went cold and before Crockett started working with Frank Tunney that Toronto was pretty much dead.

According to Jim Crockett, Frank Tunney ended up reaching out to him and making a deal to bring the guys from Mid Atlantic up to Toronto in an effort to revive the territory. George Scott started booking for Tunney and in the late 70's/early 80's Toronto got really hot again, after a few years of the territory being pretty much dead thanks to The Sheik.  One of my earliest Pro Wrestling memories as a kid was how hot the whole angle was between Hossein The Arab (The Iron Sheik) and King Kong Mosca when they feuded over the NWA Canadian Heavyweight Championship.  For a while there, Toronto was getting all the best Mid Atlantic talent, Ric Flair, Roddy Piper, Greg Valentine, Sgt. Slaughter, John Studd, etc.  I know from around 1980 - 1982, Toronto got really hot again.  If you back and watch one of those old episodes of Maple Leaf Wrestling on YouTube it's pretty amazing the amount of talent they had.

Tunney and Crockett ended up having some sort of falling out.  I think Tunney was pretty notoriously cheap, for one.  Jim Crockett talked about Tunney in the Shoot Interview he did with Conrad Thompson right before he died.  Crockett didn't have a lot of respect for Frank Tunney, he claimed he was "stuck in the 1930's."  Whatever the reason, Crockett stopped sending his best talent to Toronto.  Then in 1983, Frank Tunney died and his nephew Jack Tunney took over.  As soon as Vince McMahon started his national expansion, he made a deal with Jack Tunney to make the Toronto territory part of the WWF. This happened right around the time he bought rights to promote in Alberta from Stu Hart and Stu ended up shutting down Stampede.

As soon as Vince started working with Jack Tunney, they started doing one of their weekly TV tapings up here at the Brantford Civic Center (which had been the same place they had filmed TV for years.) Also, as I'm sure everybody remembers, Jack Tunney started portraying the on screen "President" of the World Wrestling Federation on Television.  In reality of course, he just worked for Vince as his promoter in Ontario.  They kept running shows at Maple Leaf Gardens every 3-4 weeks but now with WWF talent.  By this time I was in my teens and I never missed a show.  I even went to a bunch of the smaller "C Shows" in the surrounding towns.  I ended up getting a job selling posters and programs at the smaller shows, and even met Jack Tunney once. (He was an asshole.)  Jack Tunney's biggest accomplishment was probably that massive house show he ran in Toronto at the Canadian National Exhibition, which featured Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff and Jake Roberts vs. Ricky Steamboat, that drew 74,000 fans and set an attendance record for that time.  (That ended up being promoted on video as "The Big Event" as was available on the WWE Network at some point.)

According to Kevin Nash, Jack Tunney was (much like his Uncle) a notorious cheapskate and the payoffs for working in Toronto were supposedly terrible.  When Bret Hart ended up winning the WWF Championship, he supposedly convinced Vince McMahon to sever ties with Jack Tunney.  Rumor has it Bret did not like how cheap Jack Tunney was, and I also remember hearing that there had been some sort of bad blood between the Tunney family and the Hart family.  At one point when George Scott was booking Toronto and the Mid Atlantic stars were appearing in Toronto, Stampede Wrestling was also sending it's top stars to work in Toronto as well.  Leo Burke actually appeared in Toronto regularly while he was the Stampede North American Champion, and Toronto actually recognized the title. I heard somewhere that Frank Tunney screwed Stu Hart somehow on that talent exchange deal and Bret never forgot or forgave that.

Funny side note:  infamous preliminary wrestler Barry Horowitz wrestled in the Toronto territory under the name "Brett Hart."  So when Bret Hart came and worked in Toronto during the early 80's, he had to wrestle under the name "Buddy Hart."  If you look on YouTube, you can find matches where Barry Horowitz is wrestling as Bret Hart and other matches with Bret wrestling as Buddy Hart.

Anyhow...I am not sure the reason for the animosity, but as soon as Bret had Vince McMahon's ear, he convinced Vince to stop working with Jack Tunney.  That's why as of the mid 90's, we stopped hearing about President Jack Tunney on WWF TV.  The problem is, the Tunney family still had exclusive rights to promote at Maple Leaf Gardens, so after 1995 the WWF never promoted another show at Maple Leaf Gardens again.  Jack Tunney retained those rights until he died.  The WWF ended up running the SkyDome and CNE Coliseum, which is the venue that WWE runs in Toronto to this day...although they do run The Scotiabank Arena at times as well.

Maple Leaf Gardens ended up being sold and turned into a distribution center for a major grocery retailer here in the Toronto Area.  However, they kept the interior arena part of The Gardens intact, and it is now affiliated with Ryerson University.  What used to be Maple Leaf Gardens is now the Mattamy Athletic Center.  Pro Wrestling finally returned there a few years back when Ring of Honor ran a couple of shows there (which apparently didn't draw shit.)  WWE decided to return to the venue and booked an NXT show at the Mattamy Athletic Center in 2016. It was promoted as WWE returning to Maple Leaf Gardens after 20 years. There was so much history in that building and I was so stoked at the prospect of Pro Wrestling returning to what used to be Maple Leaf Gardens, I bought tickets.  I was especially excited because the Main Event was supposed to be Samoa Joe vs. Nakamura for the NXT Championship. 

Unfortunately, the response to the announcement was so overwhelming that WWE decided to move the show to the Air Canada Center.  (That ended up being the show with The Revival vs. DIY in a classic Best out of 3 Falls match.) I decided not to go, because half the appeal of attending that show to me was being in the arena again...but I still have the unused tickets for the NXT show at Maple Leaf Gardens that never happened.  I wanted to see Pro Wrestling at Maple Leaf Gardens one last time, but I guess that will never happen now.

 

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11 hours ago, MoS said:

Yeah but the flipside to this was that someone like Hogan, who only wrestled the big cities, often had to criss-cross the country, especially as he was the battering ram Vince used to break into so many open and contested territories. 

Hogan in March-April 1984:

Spoiler

 

3/2 St. Louis

3/3 Baltimore

3/4 Landover

3/5 Salisbury

3/6 Allentown

3/7 Hamburg

3/8 Altoona

3/9 Sacramento

3/10 Los Angeles

3/11 Meadowlands

3/17 Boston

3/23 St. Louis

3/24 Los Angeles

3/31 Philadelphia

4/1 Utica

4/2 Buffalo

4/6 St. Louis

4/7 Altoona

4/8 Johnstown

4/13 Detroit

4/17 Allentown

4/20 Dayton

4/21 Cincinnati

4/28 Baltimore

4/30 Oakland

 

Plus 4 undated eastern shows in April, probably between Johnstown and Detroit. The initial 9-day run with two cross-country flights in three days at the end is simply insane, but at least he seemed to get plenty of days off later. 

Flair, just for comparison:

Spoiler

 

03/01 Norfolk, VA Angelo Mosca Jr. W
03/02 Charleston, SC Dory Funk Jr. W
03/04 Kansas City, KS Harley Race D
03/05 Birmingham, AL Jimmy Golden W (DQ)
03/07 Mobile, AL Jimmy Golden  
03/08 Kansas City, KS Harley Race D
03/09 Panama City, FL Charlie Cook  
03/10 St. Louis, MO Bruiser Brody W (DQ)
03/11 San Antonio, TX Kevin Von Erich L (DQ)
03/12 Ft. Worth, TX Terry Gordy W
03/15 Laredo, TX Kerry Von Erich  
03/17 Greensboro, NC Ricky Steamboat D
03/20 Wellington, NZL Harley Race L
Flair claims a fast count and is announced by the NWA as the champion on 03/22.
03/25 Geylang, SIN Harley Race W
03/31 Bayamón, PR King Tonga NC
04/01 Port of Spain, TOT Carlos Colón L (DQ)
04/02 Waterford, BAR Victor Jovica W
04/03 Port of Spain, TOT Ray Apollon W
04/07 Baltimore, MD Jack Brisco W
04/08 Orlando, FL Dusty Rhodes (lights out, cage) W (DQ)
04/09 W. Palm Beach, FL Barry Windham W (DQ)
04/10 Tampa, FL Billy Jack Haynes W (DQ)
04/11 Miami Beach, FL Dusty Rhodes (lights out, cage) W (DQ)
04/12 Homestead, FL Dusty Rhodes L
04/13 St. Louis, MO Harley Race W
04/14 Nassau, BAH Barry Windham  
04/15 Pensacola, FL Jimmy Golden  
04/16 Birmingham, AL Jimmy Golden W (DQ)
04/17 Rogers, AR Buzz Tyler W
04/19 Kansas City, KS Buzz Sawyer W
04/20 Lincoln, NE Brad Armstrong W
04/21 Ft. Scott, KS Ted Oates W
04/22 Savannah, GA (aft) Dick Slater W
04/22 Charlotte, NC (eve) Ricky Steamboat D
04/23 Greenville, SC Ricky Steamboat D
04/24 Columbia, SC Dick Slater W
04/25 Myrtle Beach, SC (TV) Dick Slater (non-title?) W
04/25 Toronto, ON, CAN Harley Race D (DDQ)
04/26 Norfolk, VA Dick Slater W
04/27 Richmond, VA Ricky Steamboat D
04/30 Bellingham, WA Brett Sawyer W
05/01 Portland, OR Billy Jack Haynes D

 

Hogan in June-July 1985:

Spoiler

 

6/1 Minneapolis

6/2 Denver

6/7 Matsumoto, JPN

6/8 Lida

6/9 Ogaki

6/11 Tokyo

6/12 Yokohama

6/13 Nagoya

6/21 New York, USA

6/22 Boston

6/24 Oklahoma City

6/28 Nassau

6/29 Atlantic City (aft)

6/29 Philadelphia (eve)

6/30 Minneapolis

7/1 Oakland

7/4 Los Angeles

7/6 Baltimore

7/8 Foxboro

7/12 Pittsburgh

7/14 Toronto, CAN

7/20 Denver, USA

7/21 Minneapolis

7/26 St. Louis

7/27 Kansas City

7/30 Poughkeepsie

 

The bolded stretch here is just terrible.

Flair:

Spoiler

 

06/01 New Orleans, LA Terry Taylor W
06/02 Asheville, NC (aft) Magnum TA W (DQ)
06/02 Atlanta, GA (eve) Magnum TA W (DQ)
06/03 Birmingham, AL Lord Humongous L (DQ)
06/04 Florence, AL Bob Armstrong  
06/05 Mobile, AL Lord Humongous  
06/06 Warwick, RI David Schultz NC
06/07 Wilmington, NC Magnum TA (both fail to appear)  
06/08 Greensboro, NC Buddy Landel W
06/09 Wheeling, WV Dick Slater L (DQ)
06/12 Philadelphia, PA Magnum TA D
06/14 Salisbury, MD Dusty Rhodes W (DQ)
06/15 Richmond, VA Buddy Landel W (DQ)
06/16 Orlando, FL Wahoo McDaniel L (DQ)
06/17 Greenville, SC Buddy Landel W (DQ)
06/18 Tampa, FL Wahoo McDaniel L (DQ)
06/19 Pt. Orange, FL Wahoo McDaniel  
06/20 Jackson, MS Terry Taylor  
06/21 St. Louis, MO Kerry Von Erich L (DQ)
06/22 Columbus, GA Dick Slater W (DQ)
06/23 Atlanta, GA Magnum TA L (DQ)
06/24 New Orleans, LA Bruce Reed W (DQ)
06/28 Houston, TX Magnum TA W
06/29 Los Angeles, CA Magnum TA W (DQ)
06/30 Tulsa, OK Terry Taylor W
07/04 Atlanta, GA Magnum TA W
07/06 Charlotte, NC Nikita Koloff W (DQ)
07/07 Greenville, SC Magnum TA W (DQ)
07/08 New Orleans, LA Butch Reed  
07/10 Miami Beach, FL Dusty Rhodes L
07/11 Kansas City, KS Harley Race L (DQ)
07/12 Houston, TX Wahoo McDaniel W (DQ)
07/13 Charlotte, NC (aft) Buddy Landel W
07/13 Greensboro, NC (eve) Buddy Landel W
07/14 Orlando, FL Wahoo McDaniel W
07/15 W. Palm Beach, FL Wahoo McDaniel  
07/16 Tampa, FL Wahoo McDaniel W
07/17 Ft. Lauderdale, FL Billy Jack Haynes W
07/18 Columbus, OH Magnum TA L (DQ)
07/22 Greenville, SC Buddy Landell W
07/24 Miami Beach, FL Wahoo McDaniel W
07/26 Houston, TX Wahoo McDaniel W
07/25 Laurinburg, NC Wahoo McDaniel  
07/27 Tulsa, OK Dusty Rhodes  
07/27 Greensboro, NC Nikita Koloff W
07/28 Tulsa, OK (aft) Dusty Rhodes W
07/28 Oklahoma City, OK (eve) Kevin Von Erich (first blood match)  
07/30 Jackson, MS Dick Murdoch  
07/31 Raleigh, NC Buddy Landel W

 

Hogan by the next year:

Spoiler

 

5/30 Richmond

6/3 Poughkeepsie

6/5 Salisbury

6/6 Kansas City (no-show, flight issues, free tickets issued)

6/7 Richfield

(Japan tour here??)

6/17 Tacoma

6/18 Oakland

6/19 Fresno

6/20 Los Angeles

6/21 San Diego

6/22 Meadowlands

6/24 Poughkeepsie

6/27 Boston

6/28 Philadelphia

6/29 Baltimore

7/3 Portland (OR)

7/4 Calgary, CAN

7/5 Vancouver

7/11 Chicago, USA

7/15 Poughkeepsie

7/17 Meadowlands

7/18 Richfield

7/19 Pontiac

7/22 Minot

7/25 Baltimore

7/26 Philadelphia

7/31 Kansas City

 

Flair:

 
Spoiler

 

06/05 Columbus, GA    
06/05 Macon, GA    
06/05 Kansas City, KS Sgt. Slaughter W (COR)
06/09 Orlando, FL Lex Luger W (cnc)
06/11 Mission, TX Ron Garvin  
06/12 San Antonio, TX Ricky Morton  
06/13 Knoxville, TN The Bullet W (DQ)
06/14 New Orleans, LA Ricky Morton W
06/15 Wilmington, NC    
06/16 Birmingham, AL The Bullet W
06/18 Miami Beach, FL Lex Luger L(DQ?)
06/19 Ft. Pierce, FL Lex Luger  
06/21 Norfolk, VA Ricky Morton (Texas death match; non-title?)  
06/22 Greensboro, NC Ricky Morton D (DCOR)
06/22 Atlanta, GA Ricky Morton (cage) W
06/23 Sebring, FL    
06/24 Tampa, FL Steve Keirn W
06/25 Miami Beach, FL Lex Luger W (DQ)
06/26 Honolulu, HI Samula Anoia L (DQ)
06/27 Salt Lake City, UT Curt Hennig W
06/28 Albuquerque, NM Ron Garvin W
06/30 Greenville, SC Ricky Morton (Texas death match; non-title?) W
07/01 Philadelphia, PA Road Warrior Hawk W (DQ)
07/03 Washington, DC Dusty Rhodes W
07/04 Memphis, TN Nikita Koloff W
07/05 Charlotte, NC Ricky Morton (cage) W
07/06 Asheville, NC (aft) Ricky Morton  
07/09 Cincinnati, OH Road Warrior Animal W (DQ)
07/10 Charleston, WV Ricky Morton (cage) W
07/11 Roanoke, VA Ricky Morton (cage) W
07/12 Jacksonville, FL Dusty Rhodes (cage) L (DQ)
07/13 San Antonio, TX Magnum TA W
07/14 Wilmington, NC Ricky Morton  
07/17 Kansas City, KS Cousin Junior W
07/18 Richmond, VA Wahoo McDaniel (cage) W
07/21 Fayetteville, NC Robert Gibson W
07/22 Montreal, QC, CAN Rick Martel D
07/23 Johnson City, TN Ron Garvin W
07/25 Norfolk, VA Magnum TA W (DQ)
07/26 Greensboro, NC Dusty Rhodes (cage) L

 

Of course these are quite possibly incomplete or inaccurate. I'm sure several dates are missing for Flair when he seems to randomly take 2 days off in Texas, etc.

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1 hour ago, The Thread Killer said:

I wanted to see Pro Wrestling at Maple Leaf Gardens one last time, but I guess that will never happen now.

 

Not the same, I know, but ROH did still run there before the pandemic started (I think the last show was summer 2019). I think they drew pretty decently during the Elite era, but the 2019 show drew embarrassingly badly, so not sure if they'll be back.

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14 hours ago, joeg said:

So were towns like San Francisco, St. Louis, LA, Toronto, and Detroit each their own independent territory like Memphis? Or were they more like Houston where it was a regular spot show featuring talent and feuds from nearby territories?  

Sheik had all of Ohio mixed in with Detroit. Ask my dad about wrestling and Bobo Brazil and the Sheik are his references. Akron and Canton were regular stops for Detroit shows. Looking at results they were running in Ohio more than they were in MI by the last 5 years of the promotion.

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12 hours ago, MoS said:

Yeah but the flipside to this was that someone like Hogan, who only wrestled the big cities, often had to criss-cross the country, especially as he was the battering ram Vince used to break into so many open and contested territories. 

The C-show circuits featured just terrible cards though, yeah. I guess they got away with it because there were several generation of fans who were just used to going out and attending a wresting show once a month, no matter how bad the card was. Wrestling was just more of a way of life for a far bigger number of fans than it is now 

Also, the C-shows would sometimes come to areas (like where I grew up) that didn't get shows at all.  So, seeing Jim Neidhart vs JYD as a main event was fine. It's WWF!  They're in our town!  

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15 minutes ago, JerryvonKramer said:

Does anyone know why no one in the NWA would run shows against Verne?

I am guessing Verne's starpower was too much to challenge for a long time and he was still part of the club despite being his own promotion.

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17 minutes ago, JerryvonKramer said:

Does anyone know why no one in the NWA would run shows against Verne?

AWA was originally designed to cooperate with the NWA, but have their own champs/guidleines/etc. As a result, they were treated as friendly competition and nothing more - as evidenced by the fact that AWA folks (Verne, Karbo, etc) frequently attended NWA meetings. Verne also bought a piece of St Louis in 76, which again is evidence that he was never really seen as a rival to be stamped out. 

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Yeah, Verne was basically an NWA member in all but name. I think it was mostly so he could promote a world champion (usually himself) that prevented it ever being official. He did go to war with the NWA over LA in 1969 but didnt last long against stacked NWA cards 

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May be of interest but using the data above I calculated that there was a 91% decrease in live shows from the 70s to the late 90s.

 

The combined total 1970 to 1975 is 36,812
For 1985 to 1990 it is 11,824
For 1996 to 2001 just 3,490

 

Was this really driven by fan behaviour or just by Vince pushing PPV as the big moneymaker?

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