Timbo Slice Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Biggest upset of the night: Punk getting to face Bryan Danielson’s son before Bryan does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 It's Twitter Official now, Bob Fish is ALL ELITE Undisputed Era gonna end up becoming the top faction in AEW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, C.S. said: Isn't this how he got his first title shot, or am I misremembering? If so, it's a nice callback. IIRC, Hangman won the first Casino Ladder Match at Double or Nothing to earn his spot in the match to crown the first AEW World Champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 42 minutes ago, sek69 said: It's Twitter Official now, Bob Fish is ALL ELITE Undisputed Era gonna end up becoming the top faction in AEW Yup... Adam Cole probably pulled some strings, Bay Bay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 3 hours ago, C.S. said: Remind me again why I'm supposed to care about a bunch of absolute nobodies? Just because they're from MMA? Zzz! But their not nobodies. JDS, Masival and Van Sant are proven draws that have all done million dollar gates and over a million buys on PPV. Wrestling hasn't had anybody draw like that in nearly 25 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, joeg said: But their not nobodies. JDS, Masival and Van Sant are proven draws that have all done million dollar gates and over a million buys on PPV. Wrestling hasn't had anybody draw like that in nearly 25 years. I assume Cain Valasquez and Tyson Fury are much bigger deals though, and they did diddly for WWE. Rousey was great, of course, but she was bigger than the rest of these names combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, joeg said: But their not nobodies. JDS, Masival and Van Sant are proven draws that have all done million dollar gates and over a million buys on PPV. Wrestling hasn't had anybody draw like that in nearly 25 years. Nobodies on losing streaks here to make the wrestlers look like geeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Valasquez and Fury are sort of weird cases. Valasquez was in some fights that were huge but he was always the B side guy, JDS and Lesnar were the A side. And Fury's following is mostly in England and Ireland as he hasn't really had many fights. The fight this weekend will probably be the first time Fury cracks a million PPV buys in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Steenalized said: Nobodies on losing streaks here to make the wrestlers look like geeks. What legit athlete goes into wrestling while they are still on top? And many of the wrestlers in AEW are geeks, they don't need to be matches up next to former pro fighters to look that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Anyway, even if JDS, Masival and Van Sant were the biggest MMA stars ever, they're being positioned as faces in a crowd in a midcard feud. I've been given no reason to care about them. We're just supposed to know who they are, without any kind of introduction or background, and that doesn't really work for anyone less than a household name - which these three are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, joeg said: What legit athlete goes into wrestling while they are still on top? And many of the wrestlers in AEW are geeks, they don't need to be matches up next to former pro fighters to look that way. Very few, I imagine. But that's a good reason to not do it unless you're just going to make them "a guy" and try to build them up. You can build them up faster too since they should have some name recognition, but yeah I do think it's a bad look to have MMA fighters coming off a bunch of losses come in and immediately look like big threats because they're MMA fighters. Kayfabe may be dead and you don't have to protect the biz exactly, but I'd rather it not actively be crapped on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Eh, it's already "crapped" on even by the fans who love it. i had a conversation with some friends today about selling, and these are people who keep up a lot with modern wrestling. You know what they said ~exposes the business~ far more than blowing off 15 minutes of limb work in your comeback? Escaping an armbar. When someone puts one on in MMA and fully extends the arm, that shit is an INSTANT tapout, period. Wrestling already looks like a joke when they routinely do that, if you look at it from that perspective. i've put it this way in another post here before, but nowadays people know that even the biggest scrub in UFC would wipe the floor with almost any pro wrestler; that has nothing to do with why they watch wrestling in the first place. Just like younger generations don't watch football for the violence anymore, they don't watch wrestling to see badasses. i get the critique, i just think it's not one the core audience cares about. The problem my friends have with the Lambert stuff is how it's mainly involved wrestlers they don't like (Jericho/Hager/Ethan Page), if anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, funkdoc said: Escaping an armbar. When someone puts one on in MMA and fully extends the arm, that shit is an INSTANT tapout, period. This. My biggest pet peave is when something we've all witnessed or experienced in a real fight happens differently in pro wrestling. Arms fully extended on armbars without injury/submission, punches to the face that don't leave a mark, somebody throwing punches with an unwrapped hand and not hurting their hand, picture perfect back bumps on a takedown or a strike to the head, etc. It makes it hard to suspend disbelief when obviously unnatural things happen in a match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 It was years ago, but I've griped before about say an armbar being an instant tapout. Fish and O'Reilly and Richards and the like got super into that in the early to mid 10s and I hated it. Again, makes pro wrestlers look like dumbasses to struggle over a sharpshooter or whatever if an armbar or rear naked choke instantly makes you win. I agree that it's not so much about badasses anymore or trying to at least look like one but again, you could at least try to look a little tough. This changing perception and presentation is probably a big part of explaining why I find myself watching older stuff a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 ...and to dovetail the two sides together, it looked really weird when Ronda went from tapping people with armbars in seconds to using a weaker looking one as her WWE finish. Even in a kayfabe sense it looked bad since if wrestling was real why would she stop using the one that was instant death in MMA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted October 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 So, how do AEW book Omega-Page when the Omega-Danielson program is still pending? It feels like it's too soon to take the title off Omega since he has so many opponents, but getting Hangman beaten again and again will take the edge off his win and drawing power imo, as has always happened in American wrestling. He has lost to Omega once, and then he and Dark Order lost clean a match for the title shot opportunity after they had started the angle of Page being the guy who cannot win the big one and doesn't believe he can win the big one. I mean really, it goes back even further than than, to the time he lost to Jericho 2 years ago at All Out. His entire arc since has been about someone who is insecure about being good enough to win the top belt. There are only so many times you can break hearts with the top guy losing, until the fans lose that connection and the eventual run doesn't mean much. Do you want the Hangman to be Tommy Dreamer, or do you want to him to be Cena/Rock/Austin? Cuz Dreamer might have been the heart and soul of ECW, but he sure as hell never was the ace. Not when ECW was actually doing well at least. At the same time, this Omega-Danielson program is so good and enticing, and I badly want it to continue. I don't want it to get blown off on TV before the PPV either; the rematch imo should be a 60-min title match with zero commercial breaks. There's also the possible Omega-Punk match, which has to be the last big match before Puk turns heel - and he absolutely is turning heels. You have so many hot programs left with Omega. It's funny cuz the first several months of his reign, he was just fucking around in interminably boring segments with Callis, pretending that hitting Jon Moxley with a microphone was amongst the top 10 worst things to happen in wrestling history, cutting lame, insufferable promos about the forbidden door and his cunning and how everyone was a part of a catastrophic plan, designed and directed by his stupid invisible hand, none of which ended up leading to nothing except the fucking Good Brothers (I know the NJPW guys started coming later to Dynamite, but by that time it had absolutely nothing to do with Omega and Callis, it was about Mox, really), taking about weird conspiracies, just being a turnoff. And now, he has a host of great opponents, he has been easily doing the best AEW work of his career for a while now, and Adam Cole keeps making the Good Brothers look like chumps, which has significantly improved the situation. There are multiple dream matches, opponents, angles and feuds for him to work with. He also said recently that he got some stem cell therapy - I think - and thus is feeling the best he has physically in a while. That explains the improvement in the quality of his recent matches too, apart from having better opponents and with better booking now. It now feels way too soon to take the title off him imo. AEW I feel have booked themselves in a weird place by bringing back Page right in the middle of Omega-Danielson. It will be genuinely hilarious though if yet another young babyface's coronation gets affected cuz somehow Danielson finds himself in the way lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Looks to me like they're gonna go with Danielson vs Cole instead for Full Gear. Just based on how Danielson basically one-upped Cole at All Out when both debuted within 5 minutes of each other, the basis of the story was there. Cole feels like Danielson is stealing his thunder and he's gonna take care of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RingoPlaysDrums Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Worth noting that the Dynamite after Full Gear is in Page's home state of Virginia. Personally I don't really see the issue with Page dethroning Omega before Danielson and Omega have their rematch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Hell yeah. Cowboy Shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 What I watched: Darby vs Comoroto: Two losses in two days for Comoroto, even against well-pushed guys like Cassidy and Darby is a bit of a shame. He feels like the sort of wrestler that Hogan would beat on a SNME. They should protect him a little more maybe? Match itself was fine, though it's rough to lose the heat of so many of these matches in the PIP. Best part of this whole thing was probably JR explaining Sting's no-sell of the Diamond Cutter by saying QT had terrible technique. Deeb vs Shida: Liked this a lot. I thought Deeb's control segment (really a heat, I'd say, even though she didn't go full heel until the end) was very good. She kept things moving, kept them focused, kept them interesting, interacted with the crowd, felt very organic in what she was doing. The opening exchanges were good but had a little weird feel to them chemistry-wise. I'm not sure if that has something to do with Shida's almost lackadaisical way of moving at times or just the way the camera was catching things. It made the counters feel less smooth but also somehow less than spots. I'm not sure it fully made it over the line of being more effective for it though. The big moment at the end where Deeb started targeting the leg while Shida was stuck in the ropes on the apron was interesting because it was very novel and I'm not sure Shida exactly knew how to sell her leg until she made it back into the ring. After that, the finishing stretch was good, especially so because the match had stakes. Shida was protected well enough and there was a sense that Deeb had to go to some dark places to defeat her. I'm curious where they go with this. Shida almost has to get her 50th over Deeb now so they're going to be married for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Well, can't be right all the time. Considering how hot it was and how he won a very memorable, crazy-ass match (those bumps by Andrade and PAC were horrific), I won't argue it was 100% a success. I told you all that the day he comes back, he would be over as fuck so it did not matter that he was away during all the big debuts. The most interesting thing now is how they figure the whole thing out with Danielson. Maybe another big match on TV before the PPV. Or they do Hangman winning on TV after the PPV, since TV is as important if not more as the PPV's. Anyway, this is quite intriguing. Opener was insanely great too. Those guys (the Elite, of course) are such next level still, it's not even fair. The way they worked around that blow spot was something else too. Hey, I can deal with a salty old guy called Fish kicking your heads in. That Dan Lambert angle was heat. Like, major heat. I don't care that I don't know those MMA guys, when the heat is as such, it's just hot and makes you care about it. Great for Sammy to be included in this stuff, he can go through Scorpio & Page (not the cowboy one, the other one, the Canadian douchebag) in a heated atmosphere. TBS championship. If that means more meaningfull booking and more women characters, good. I'd dig a heel Serena Deeb winning that thing, she's sooooo good especially in that kind of role. Dante Martin vs Malakai Black is gonna steal a show somewhere. (oh yeah, and Cody *is* doing some kind of "redemption" (from what ? stupid promos and TV shows ?) angle apparently. Facepalms galore coming, the crowd reactions should be fun though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Danielson/Omega doesn't need the belt. Let Dragon beat Matt Jackson on a Dynamite soon, then take out Cole at the PPV. Meanwhile, Page gets his much deserved win and the end to his current arc. After that do Omega/Danielson to see who's the best in the world, and let Page feud with Miro or Black Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gramsci Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 I agree that Danielson/Omega doesn't need the title, but I think they need the PPV to structure their next match the way the want without restrictions, and Revolution is too far away. Also the idea of Page winning the gold on TV is not bad either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 It doesn't need the belt but it probably should be an Ironman match or some such at that point. Traditionally, Ironman matches on PPV are a little frowned on since they take up a lot of time but with AEW a big draw match that takes up a lot of time means that other matches can be saved for TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted October 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 It doesn't need the belt but it can be argued the belt needs the feud. Wouldn't Hangman and his title programs be overshadowed if Danielson-Omega is happening? I actually am not sure cuz one thing is clear: Hangman is over like a God in front of AEW crowds. He is a level beyond everyone else, and I include Punk in that category. It's more in the sense that booking-wise, he and his programs might come off secondary to two GOATs fighting for the GOAT title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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