Jump to content
Pro Wrestling Only
Sign in to follow this  
MoS

AEW Saturday Night Dynamite - October 16, 2021

Recommended Posts

I'm sure a big part of it is wanting to avoid the optics of Punk showing up and cutting to the front of the line ahead of the guys who've been there the whole time when that was one of his main complaints about WWE in the Colt podcast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Tony keeps saying Punk is the biggest wrestling star in the world  and yet he doesn't put Punk in the title shot tournament and Punk is on commentary during this and doesn't even acknowledge it. That's not complaining for the sake of complaining,  that makes Punk look like he's not the big deal they keep telling you he is and makes him look like he doesn't give a shit about being the top guy. How many hundreds of times have you heard some version of "if you're not here to be the champ, why are you here"?

I get that, but he has acknowledged and explained why he is not wrestling for the title or attempting to go for the title yet. He thinks he is not ready to hang with the top guys. It is possible for the biggest star to not be ready for the top prize in the sport. It is not an ideal situation, certainly, but not an infeasible one. We see that sometimes in MMA too. He will collect some wins like he is doing and then one hot program will have him ready for a title shot. I do wish he would keep coming out every week with his music and entire entrance just to do commentary though. That can get really old really quickly. There's no reason why that can't just be a live crowd thing only. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's completely lame. Oh I'm the best in the world bit actually I'd rather just fave young guys I know I can beat and not fave the actual top guys. Like.. what. This is more and more like Bret in WCW where he came in and didn't even mention challenging for a title until about 8 months in and it was for the TV title. Meanwhile having matches with Disco on Thunder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, strobogo said:

How many hundreds of times have you heard some version of "if you're not here to be the champ, why are you here"?

Zero hundreds. Zero times til now. 

AEW has a bounty of riches between Danielson joining right after Punk, Page coming back, seems like they're moving Miro that way, etc. Punk going for the title clutters it up more and probably requires more juggling of long term plans. He's fine waiting his turn and he'll still be over huge when it's his turn. Or if he somehow isn't over he'll get over. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, strobogo said:

That's completely lame. Oh I'm the best in the world bit actually I'd rather just fave young guys I know I can beat and not fave the actual top guys. Like.. what. This is more and more like Bret in WCW where he came in and didn't even mention challenging for a title until about 8 months in and it was for the TV title. Meanwhile having matches with Disco on Thunder.

Bret was coming off the hottest angle in wrestling a month before his debut, an angle that had inadvertently made him the biggest face in wrestling. CM Punk had not wrestled prior to this for 7.5 years, and he had spent a year prior to that very much out of the title picture. This is nothing like Bret in WCW at all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Punk is there to have a good time and test the waters. He wanted to main event Wrestlemania so badly that he almost died. Right now he’s having fun. Eventually something has to give but not for a few more months. Zero problems with it. It completely fits who he is and where he is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Punk been out of wrestling for the last 7 years, there's no house shows for him to get back into great ring shape. His match with Sydal has been the best he's looked since coming back to wrestling. But wrestling Danielson or wrestling omega for the title is a different level of match, guessing he wants to get up to full speed as at his age and not doing it for so long, injuries are going to be a big risk for him.  Plus form an ego point of view, he's going to want to hang with them in the ring, I don't think he's ready yet for a main event level match. 

Maybe if he is going to wrestle Wardlow, his next destination is to get involved in the Darby/Sting vs The Pinnacle feud to help even it out. Plus Page need's a run with the belt where he's the man or he in danger of being the next luger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Steenalized said:

Zero hundreds. Zero times til now. 

AEW has a bounty of riches between Danielson joining right after Punk, Page coming back, seems like they're moving Miro that way, etc. Punk going for the title clutters it up more and probably requires more juggling of long term plans. He's fine waiting his turn and he'll still be over huge when it's his turn. Or if he somehow isn't over he'll get over. 

 

Have you never watched professional wrestling in your life or something? JR said that weekly for about 30 years on TV across multiple promotions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I've posted on this forum coming on 900 times without watching a match, you got me. I honestly don't remember him ever saying it nor does JR saying it weekly for 30 years actually make it true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, JR wasn't the only one to say it and it was a very common saying in just about every American wrestling promotion that has ever had television. Gorilla and Jesse said it just about every show, Tony/JR/David Crockett said it frequently. I honestly don't know how a poster here could have not heard that phrase or some variant hundreds of times in their lives watching pro wrestling shows. I've even heard it in 1950s/60s commentary.

 

The point is, Punk calls himself the Best in the World. TK keeps saying Punk is the biggest wrestling star in the world. His return was allegedly the biggest deal in a decade or so. And yet he's not booked in not even a title match, but a title shot TOURNAMENT, on commentary at the time the brackets are announced and he doesn't even give a shit he's not in it. So, why are we doing 2 months of circle jerking every episode that he's back when he's not ready to really be back and AEW isn't ready to really book him like he's back? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's coming back from a nearly decade long layoff and when he was active before that he was in ill health and burned out. AEW has plenty going on at the top of the card and Punk will draw and get attention without being in the title chase. There is no need to rush this because a guy coming into a promotion with a push in the territory days would have been gunning for the belt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to have to go with Steenalized here. "If you're not here for the title, then why are you here?" was never a regular talking point that I've heard in any territory or promotion. Not that it was never said, but it certainly wasn't "every show." For goodness sake, in most of these promotions we're talking about there were almost never any heel-heel or face-face matches. It would be a particularly odd thing to say in the WW(W)F because babyfaces never got title shots against Hogan, Backlund, Pedro, or Bruno. So all that talking point would do is undermine longtime babyfaces like Strongbow, Steamboat, Rocky Johnson, et al. They knew they were never getting a World title shot, yet they still competed. And of course, in the WWF especially, feuds tended to exist in their own world, so anyone whether heel or babyface not directly feuding with Hogan was unlikely to make any noise over wanting his title.

I also don't remember JR or Schiavone or Crockett talking up how the Valiant-Jones war would lead to possible title opportunities either for the Boogie Woogie Man or Teijo Khan depending on who won. That feud was entirely outside titles and yet it was still treated with importance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest star does not need to wrestle for the title if they are not in a condition to do justice to the spot. Bruno was called the living legend and the biggest star in the world after his program with Billy Graham got over, he didn't need to try and win the title again for that to be incompatible with the product's presentation. Hogan or Rock after they returned to WWF after years did not immediately challenge for the title and no one had an issue calling them the biggest star in the world.

That saying is used in the context of young wrestlers wanting to eventually reach the top of the table; it is a call for ambition and hunger. Someone like CM Punk doesn't need to show that immediately. He can afford to build himself back to that level before challenging for the top spot. It's because he has already been there. It has been less than two months since he has returned after a 7 year absence. This tournament will culminate in a month. There will be plenty of time after that to challenge for the title. Why would he want to be in that scene in kayfabe, when he doesn't feel ready to challenge the top guys yet? One loss will set him back so far, much further back than if he waits and gets in his groove. AEW don't do rematches for titles. He might not get another shot again for a long time after that. 

I also don't see how Tony Khan's presentation of him is misleading. He is the biggest wrestling star right now. His return was the biggest thing in wrestling in years. All of that is true. They also never pretended that he was in the best shape of his life, that he was immediately going to wrestle for the title. He said in his first promo back that he has time. He has been saying since he came back that he will challenge for the title when he is ready. And because he is the biggest star in wrestling, he can afford to call his shots. Again, we see that with MMA too. Hell, Ali didn't immediately challenge for the world title after he returned from exile. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get how this is a debate. 

Punk values his convictions over his passion for wrestling. That much is obvious. He had strong feelings against part-timers or past stars hogging the limelight of the new crowd. He's in that position now and doesn't wish to be a hypocrite. He's both shaking off the ring rust and proving himself to be worthy of that top place. That's why he doesn't give a damn. This is an internally consistent thing established for over a decade. 

From TK's perspective, why would he clutter up one place on the card when he can have draws up and down it? Punk can be the biggest star in the world and still just do touring pressers for cash (anybody else remember the millions made by McGregor/Mayweather just yelling 'you won't do nuttin/yeaaahhh' at each other ad nauseum?). 

We're sitting here arguing a point in kayfabe that doesn't even exist and missing the picture that there's an actually viable promotion with multiple stories on the go that can be heated up and placed up and down the card. People so often point back to the Attitude Era and say 'everyone was over not like today!'. Well we're kinda going back to that at last. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In kayfabe explain to me how the guy last seen LOSING to Punk is in the tournament, but Punk himself is not makes sense in this company where wins/losses are supposed to be so important

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean if we're going to start kayfabe explanations of this tournament, the much bigger question is why would Preston Vance be in it? For that matter, why is Dustin in it? Yeah he has awesome matches but he's hardly been positioned as a legit world title contender. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There should definitely have been more big names in the tournament. That said, title shot tournaments don't need to have all the top stars participating in them. Some of them should have been in, some are busy or occupied with other stuff. This tournament isn't booked like the G1 or the CC, it is for one future title shot in the near future. There will be more title shots in a TV-based promotion. The belt needs to keep getting defended, there need to be new challengers, new title matches, even when other people are busy or cannot afford to take up their chance at a title shot in case they lose. That's not the case with someone like Hobbs, who has nothing to lose and might as well try. Same reason why the Casino ladder match also had Matt Hardy and PAC. In kayfabe, Punk could have said something like he wants a title shot next year at  PPV, not so soon this year on TV, where he wouldn't have enough time. Therefore, when some top contenders refused, spots opened up. 

Having said that, I definitely would replace some of the names in that tournament. I don't know whom Miro will face at the PPV, but he could have been in the tournament, maybe for the PPV, he could have been in some fallout match from the tourney. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The obvious answer to "why isn't *X* in this tournament" of course is Tony doesn't want top level guys taking unnecessary  Ls. He clearly has things mapped out and unlike certain other major US wrestling companies, doesn't want to beat folks he has other plans for. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if some of the names aren't the biggest stars/most pushed, it makes more sense to avoid having guys like Miro, Cole, and Punk all take losses when they really don't need to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, sek69 said:

The obvious answer to "why isn't *X* in this tournament" of course is Tony doesn't want top level guys taking unnecessary  Ls. He clearly has things mapped out and unlike certain other major US wrestling companies, doesn't want to beat folks he has other plans for. 

Yep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Punk discourse is also a product of fandom becoming so myopic. Not everyone can be a top guy, but everyone can be relevant and useful. AEW’s biggest issue from the start was fans desires for everyone on top, but that’s literally not possible. Punk deciding to go after the belt should be a BIG deal, and it will be when it does eventually happen. But I find it funny that folks are harping on this when they yadda yadda Bryan just checking off his much better Cody dream match list instead of going after the belt. Even after Bryan himself said it in a promo. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Boss Rock said:

Even if some of the names aren't the biggest stars/most pushed, it makes more sense to avoid having guys like Miro, Cole, and Punk all take losses when they really don't need to.

Yeah, true. I was thinking of a kayfabe reason. 

5 minutes ago, Timbo Slice said:

The Punk discourse is also a product of fandom becoming so myopic. Not everyone can be a top guy, but everyone can be relevant and useful. AEW’s biggest issue from the start was fans desires for everyone on top, but that’s literally not possible. Punk deciding to go after the belt should be a BIG deal, and it will be when it does eventually happen. But I find it funny that folks are harping on this when they yadda yadda Bryan just checking off his much better Cody dream match list instead of going after the belt. Even after Bryan himself said it in a promo. 

Well to be fair, Bryan is in this tournament. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob Backlund came back after a decade, didn't immediately go after the World Title, and actually lost quite a bit at first.

Apples to oranges with Punk? Nah. The only people who would make that argument are those who weren't actually around for Backlund's first run in the late-'70s and early-'80s (which includes me, to be fair). Otherwise, they are pretty similar situations. 

As for the Eliminator tournament itself, I can understand the general criticisms - some of the entrants, both this year and last, seem completely random. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×