The Thread Killer Posted June 24, 2022 Report Share Posted June 24, 2022 11 hours ago, sek69 said: Remember when the usual suspects lost their shit when Omega gave a bunch of offense to (I think it was) Alan Angels before he got signed? So many hands being wrung over the AEW champ being made to look weak by having to struggle to beat a jobber That’s a “controversy” that’s existed for a long time and not just regarding Omega. I remember Jim Ross talking on his podcast about how Flair used to get hassled by bookers because if he really liked an enhancement talent, he would give them a chance to shine during what was supposed to be a squash match. I think Flair once let George South get the upper hand on him for a few moves during a TBS Studio match. I recently heard Jake Roberts say the same thing about Joey Maggs…the guys liked him so much they would sometimes let him get a lot of offense in, much to the chagrin of the booker. Hell, even Jim Cornette has admitted the Midnight Express would do the same once in a while. Kind of the opposite of what Brody or the Road Warriors would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 24, 2022 Report Share Posted June 24, 2022 Yeah bookers always gets mad, and it never hurts the star and usually helps the jobber in the long run. George South still gets booked occasionally to this day because he was one of the more well regarded enhancement guys, in large part due to Flair giving him so much on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 I'm not so sure Flair going 50/50 with the likes of George South didn't hurt him when Crockett was in the middle of a wrestling war and the other guy's champ was vanquishing monster after monster. If I were booker in that spot...yeah, I'd tell them, "Great match--now go back out there and do it again the right way." No, I'm not saying it was the lone reason among the myriad why Crockett went bankrupt...but I sure don't think it helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 Andrade/Fenix having a great "sorry CMLL fucked you out of being on the PPV" match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 Rush and Andrade are officially INGOBERNABLES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 And we got a Tully Blanchard Enterprises sighting tonight as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 13 hours ago, The Thread Killer said: That’s a “controversy” that’s existed for a long time and not just regarding Omega. I remember Jim Ross talking on his podcast about how Flair used to get hassled by bookers because if he really liked an enhancement talent, he would give them a chance to shine during what was supposed to be a squash match. I think Flair once let George South get the upper hand on him for a few moves during a TBS Studio match. I recently heard Jake Roberts say the same thing about Joey Maggs…the guys liked him so much they would sometimes let him get a lot of offense in, much to the chagrin of the booker. Hell, even Jim Cornette has admitted the Midnight Express would do the same once in a while. Kind of the opposite of what Brody or the Road Warriors would do. I've never seen the Midnights, especially the Condrey era, do anything but fucking annihilate jobbers even more violently than the Road Warriors or Barbarian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 7 hours ago, sek69 said: Rush and Andrade are officially INGOBERNABLES But they can never cross path with LIJ because Mexican promotions be like. Fénix vs Andrade was just an awesome, PPV level match. Fénix reminds me of Sabu in his prime, in every match it seems you see something incredible you've never seen before, and whenever he's selling you just don't know if he's selling or if he's legit injured (which, likewise Sabu, makes him the most realistic seller today despite all notions of "pro-wrestling selling"). Very first time Deeb & Martinez are on TV as a team and they don't get along. This is quite the speedrun booking ! Wants more of both of them anytime though. Hey, Brian Cage ! Ready to explode too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 4 hours ago, El-P said: Very first time Deeb & Martinez are on TV as a team and they don't get along. This is quite the speedrun booking ! Wants more of both of them anytime though. It's their fourth match together, though. Plus they've had one or two promos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 As far as the Omega-Angels discourse goes it really was a storm in a teacup. It probably highlights just how much certain sections of the community despises Satin that they've made a mental note of that and carried it with them a good year. Possibly for good reasons as well as Satin is a WWE stooge and he seemed to be deliberately missing the point that the match wasn't about making Omega but rather about giving Angels an opportunity during a dire time in the industry where not a lot of guys were getting opportunities to make names for themselves on the internet. I do think those concerns in general are valid. I've seen many variations of a theme but it essentially comes down to the idea that not every match should be a MOTY contender. In Kenny's defence, I think he does agree with this because when he began his singles run it began with that emphatic victory over Kiss where he gave one of the best facial expressions in years. It's certainly not a complaint that AEW gets singled out for. NXT had a similar variation back when fans were beginning to feel burnt out by the formula. Going back further I can remember an infamous example with Kurt Angle & BG James where certain fans were irate that Kurt allowed BG James of all people to kick out of the Angle Slam. I do believe there was a valid point to be made about how Omega had been portrayed up to that point and him not living up to the hype. However since it came from Satin and the spot was defendable it's taken a life of it's own. It may be this generation's X-Pac heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 19 minutes ago, Big Pete said: I do believe there was a valid point to be made about how Omega had been portrayed up to that point and him not living up to the hype. The one thing that people never seem to get back then is that it was *on purpose*. He wasn't going to present himself as a top single star, letting Jericho & Mox carry the ball first while trying to make other people look good in the meantime, especially the entire Hangman stuff. Case in point, when he finally got the title, AEW grew in significant ways, and that's during the pandemic at first. When he was thrown on IMPACT TV he made the biggest, wait for it, impact for them in term of demo ratings and the day he dropped the title to Christian Cage, ratings dropped back down to normal (that says a lot about Christian Cage supposed "HOF star power" too). The issue is that Omega was such a divisive figure that he was not gonna get any credit whatsoever, to the point some people argued he had no effect on NJPW business (which, retrospectively, is even funnier than it was then), so of course as he wasn't positioned as this top single star, he got the haters going on about how he wasn't living up to the hype. Until of course, when he choose to finally pull the trigger, well, he more than lived up to the hype in pretty much every ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 The Andrade knee's into the post spot looked absolutely brutal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, El-P said: The one thing that people never seem to get back then is that it was *on purpose*. I'd say the majority of the fans who knew Kenny prior to AEW knew this, it was the fans who had only heard of Kenny that weren't aware. I still don't think it was wise to purposefully make a bad first impression even if it was to help tell a larger story. 9 minutes ago, El-P said: When he was thrown on IMPACT TV he made the biggest, wait for it, impact for them in term of demo ratings and the day he dropped the title to Christian Cage, ratings dropped back down to normal (that says a lot about Christian Cage supposed "HOF star power" too). I'd have to see the figures again but if memory serves after an impressive debut Kenny actually struggled to retain fans for his subsequent appearances. I think there was definitely a novelty aspect of seeing an AEW guy on TV, but the show just didn't hook fans for one reason or another. It was something of a shame as well because personally I actually found Omega's run there more interesting than the work he was doing in AEW. When they did the title switch to Christian it just came off as really anti-climatic because Omega's run in TNA was so compelling. Whereas in AEW he played up to being a heel more and relied on a lot of old-school tropes that didn't really do him justice. 15 minutes ago, El-P said: Until of course, when he choose to finally pull the trigger, well, he more than lived up to the hype in pretty much every ways. I don't know if the smoke has really cleared yet. The only match that I saw receive universal praise was against Danielson but it came at such a bad time because it kind of over-shadowed Hangman's win which was the big destination Omega's entire run had been building towards. If you weren't a fan of the goofiness I don't think the run really changed any minds because if anything they just doubled down on it for 'heat'. With all that said, when Kenny does return it's going to be a huge moment and I do expect there to be a honeymoon period unless he tries to 'subvert expectations' like last time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, Big Pete said: I'd say the majority of the fans who knew Kenny prior to AEW knew this, it was the fans who had only heard of Kenny that weren't aware. I still don't think it was wise to purposefully make a bad first impression even if it was to help tell a larger story. I don't get the "bad impression" though. He only had killer matches all the times, including that infamous PAC match, had this incredible tag-team run with Hangman peaking with the Young Bucks match which was out of this world. To me people who had a bad impression of him during that time had a pre-conceived idea that they had to hate him anyway. It seems a long time ago now, but a lot of people hated that guy so much then (more or less because of Corny, really). 15 minutes ago, Big Pete said: I'd have to see the figures again but if memory serves after an impressive debut Kenny actually struggled to retain fans for his subsequent appearances. I think there was definitely a novelty aspect of seeing an AEW guy on TV, but the show just didn't hook fans for one reason or another. It's still IMPACT, and nothing can really help the promotion for too long anyway. It was on/off in term of weekly ratings for sure, but if you take his entire run, he sure made a difference comparing to the usual, and it dropped immediately when he was gone. 15 minutes ago, Big Pete said: When they did the title switch to Christian it just came off as really anti-climatic because Omega's run in TNA was so compelling. Whereas in AEW he played up to being a heel more and relied on a lot of old-school tropes that didn't really do him justice. I dunno, to me this was a blast from A to Z, the stuff with Callis was gold. My favorite time of AEW thus far. The dropping the title to Christian was smart in a way to not having to drop the title to anyone in IMPACT (which he could not as the AEW champ) and was good for Christian for him to be a credible PPV challenger (which really he never was, honestly) on a PPV that basically was carried by the promise of CM Punk coming back more than a huge title defense. But yeah, Omega in IMPACT was tons of fun, he was different there, definitely a feel of old territory/interpromotional stuff that you very seldom gets. He put a lot of thought into his IMPACT stuff. Well, we had those matches with Moose and Sami, which were terrific. But it felt we could have had even more out of this. 15 minutes ago, Big Pete said: I don't know if the smoke has really cleared yet. The only match that I saw receive universal praise was against Danielson but it came at such a bad time because it kind of over-shadowed Hangman's win which was the big destination Omega's entire run had been building towards. If you weren't a fan of the goofiness I don't think the run really changed any minds because if anything they just doubled down on it for 'heat'. Let's be honest : Kenny Omega will *never ever* be a consensus pick like Danielson is. Which makes him actually more interesting in the grand scheme of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, El-P said: I don't get the "bad impression" though. He only had killer matches all the times, including that infamous PAC match, had this incredible tag-team run with Hangman peaking with the Young Bucks match which was out of this world. To me people who had a bad impression of him during that time had a pre-conceived idea that they had to hate him anyway. It seems a long time ago now, but a lot of people hated that guy so much then (more or less because of Corny, really). I'd argue it was his promo work that was letting him down. Again fans who had been following had long accepted it wasn't his strong suit and were prepared to make that trade off but outside of a promo he cut on Moxley on BTE I don't recall any of his promos resonating. In fact fans were confused because it seemed like Omega was working hard to put others over before he really got himself over with a national television audience. He lost his first three major PPV matches, his character was going through a crisis of confidence and it really wasn't until that incredible week he had in February where things started to click. Then as things happened, COVID hit so he didn't have the momentum he should have had moving forward. 28 minutes ago, El-P said: The dropping the title to Christian was smart in a way to not having to drop the title to anyone in IMPACT (which he could not as the AEW champ) and was good for Christian for him to be a credible PPV challenger (which really he never was, honestly) on a PPV that basically was carried by the promise of CM Punk coming back more than a huge title defense. It's just a shame for IMPACT and to an extent AEW that things didn't work out timing wise with Hangman. Hangman-Omega at All Out would have made more sense and then you could have had Josh Alexander go over Kenny and avoided that Moose shmozzle which to me came across as D'Amore trying to create buzz after the anti-climax of Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Big Pete said: I'd argue it was his promo work that was letting him down. Again fans who had been following had long accepted it wasn't his strong suit and were prepared to make that trade off but outside of a promo he cut on Moxley on BTE I don't recall any of his promos resonating I guess you're right about that. It could only really speak to those who had followed him for a while now and knew more about his character and promo style. 2 minutes ago, Big Pete said: It's just a shame for IMPACT and to an extent AEW that things didn't work out timing wise with Hangman. Hangman-Omega at All Out would have made more sense and then you could have had Josh Alexander go over Kenny and avoided that Moose shmozzle which to me came across as D'Amore trying to create buzz after the anti-climax of Christian. I'm not so sure TK would have let Omega do a job in IMPACT. Maybe he would. It sure would have been much better for Josh Alexander, but in the end I enjoyed the Moose stuff a lot. Tremendous heel stuff and really delivered in big matches. Ending Christian Cage was fine, but certainly anti-climatic (which was kinda fitting in an ironic way with his own debut in AEW). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 When Kenny Omega does come back & when C.M. Punk is healthy again, I think there's big money in a heel Punk vs face Omega feud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrodak Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 Is there any possibility that they put the interim title on Tanahashi so Tony can have his Punk vs Tanahashi match when Punk is healed? Putting it on Moxley is just weird unless he drops it to a heel, Punk vs Moxley doesn’t have much juice to it on its face. I think this Danielson injury precludes him ever becoming champ, he’s just too precariously situated in terms of his health. But: Tweener Danielson vs Face Punk and antihero MJF vs Heel Punk seem like the two money matches for Punk as champion. Kingston vs Punk redux, as well, but idk if Kingston is seen as too old and with too much mileage to be a long-term prospect, and that’s why Tony hasn’t pulled the trigger there. Punk vs Omega doesn’t interest me much, tbh. Even if I were an Omega guy, it just seems like a style clash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 I'm reading a pack of lies about the underrated, underappreciated, always the GOAT, Christian, in this thread, and as Christian's Head Peep, my only response is shame on you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 I'm sure Ospreay vs OC will be very enjoyable, but Christian vs Ospreay sounds tremendous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.