Flyin' Brian Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Re: the JYD/Tommy Rich HOF candidacies: I'm fascinated why the May 14, 1982 Houston show apparently drew so poorly that Boesch was thinking of going out of business. On top was JYD vs Bock for the AWA title and a big angle cage match between Tommy Rich and Gino Hernandez where Boesch would kiss Gino's foot if Rich won (and presumably the stip would be reversed otherwise). This stemmed from Gino interfering in Rich's AWA title shot back in March. Having seen some (but not all) of the build and just hot a heel Gino and Tully seemed at the time, as well as the fact that Rich wasn't just a national star but was decently positioned as his "aw, shucks" genuine self in Houston/Southwest, I don't get why it didn't work. Apparently it really didn't though. I don't know if it was just that Rich didn't transfer or what. Boesch @ Houston, TX – Sam Houston Coliseum – May 14, 1982 Hacksaw Duggan d. Ricky Morton Scott Casey d. Killer Brooks Superstar Billy Graham d. Jimmy Golden Bob Sweetan d. Ken Lucas Scott Casey, Jimmy Golden, Ken Lucas, & Ricky Morton d. Hacksaw Duggan, Superstar Billy Graham, Killer Brooks, & Bob Sweetan Manny Fernandez battled Mil Mascaras to a DDQ Wahoo McDaniel d. Tully Blanchard Gino Hernandez d. Tommy Rich AWA World Heavyewight Title: Junkyard Dog d. Nick Bockwinkel © by DQ That looks like an amazing card. Guess for some reason Rich and JYD just didn't translate or resonate with the Houston fans. Is there data showing attendance figures for shows around that time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 I'm almost caught up on BtS. This is from the 1/30/95 Observer: "The match reminded me of a very good opening match in Tijuana where you'd see a lot of great high spots, but the psychology was limited and the brawling looked bad in spots (***). It's a lot better watching guys with weaknesses work their butts off then to see guys stalling and shortcutting through a match." I kind of hate it so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/831739702382297088 Meltzer moves in mysterious ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Meltzer's comments on race are embarrassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Dave mentioned on twitter about Linda McMahon making a phone call that saved the company. Unless I'm missing something obvious what was he referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 I believe that's a reference to Linda calling Dr. Zahorian and telling him to destroy/get rid of any records of dealing with WWF wrestlers/Vince after she was tipped off that he was being investigated by the FBI for steroid distribution, thus eliminating a potential smoking gun during Vince's trial years later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 I believe that's a reference to Linda calling Dr. Zahorian and telling him to destroy/get rid off any records of dealing with WWF wrestlers/Vince after she was tipped off that he was being investigated by the FBI for steroid distribution, thus eliminating a potential smoking gun during Vince's trial years later Yes. The story goes someone tipped off Linda at (I believe) a party that Zahorian was being looked at by the feds, so she was able to give the heads up so that there would be no direct links tying the company to drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Meltzer's comments on race are embarrassing. Like we know Dave is a nice guy, but damn... his words on women and race are just awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 He does have a point that it's kind of patronizing that they only seem to honor the same 5-6 people each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 He does have a point that it's kind of patronizing that they only seem to honor the same 5-6 people each year. Black History Month as a whole is pretty patronizing IMO. I have different views on race than other people, but until we can get past race, whether it be for good reasons or bad reasons, race is always going to be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakla Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 I do agree with Dave on how out-of-touch WWE is with their "only blacks can be talking heads for black history month videos" deal. It would not have hurt to have had a caucasian with awareness of sports history talk about Jackie Robinson, instead of Alicia Fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye12 Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 I do agree with Dave on how out-of-touch WWE is with their "only blacks can be talking heads for black history month videos" deal. It would not have hurt to have had a caucasian with awareness of sports history talk about Jackie Robinson, instead of Alicia Fox. It probably wouldn't hurt MLB to include some players not of color as speakers in the video packages they use in the stadiums every year on Jackie Robinson day, but they only include African-Americans from around the league, and they've been doing it for 20 years now. Don't see it changing anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakla Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 There's a lot more MLB players overall than the main WWE roster. Probably a higher proportion of African-Americans in the MLB as well. Few would be upset (or notice) if John Cena said a few words about Jackie Robinson over Alicia Fox. Also, both Dave and Bryan talked a lot last WO Radio about how stupid the "you deserve it" chant is. I agree more with Bryan's take tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 David Otunga looks like he hates life when he does the BHM stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 It's also embarrassing when they keep repeating stuff like saying Jackie Robinson is the only person to have his number retired by every team in a sport (99 is retired in the NHL for Wayne Gretzky). It makes them look like they are putting in the minimal effort possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 That's bad, and not trying to defend WWE at all, 'cause they should have had that right, but that's something major outlets continue to get wrong year after year. Even Ken Burns' impressive, 4+ hour documentary on Jackie Robinson, which had so much research and interview put into it, stated that exact same myth. And that aired on PBS last Spring in 2016. It's one of those myths that lingers on, year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 The real issue with WWE's BHM stuff is they have such a terrible track record with black talents that every year it feels like the most blatant PR stuff they ever do, and they have explicit PR segments on the reg. It was only 2 years ago their gimmick for a stable of 3 black men had vignettes with all black church choirs and them dancing like James Brown. After the very initial start was ANGRY BLACK MEN and Xavier going to by Dr. X as a mix of MLK and Malcolm. Go back a few years prior and their 2 most heavily pushed black men were BIG SCARY BLACK MAN and abnormally stupid rapper who sees invisible children and came to the ring dressed as a Confederate soldier. We're not talking the 80s or 70s. We're talking 2010s. Call me crazy for not believing they really care about honoring the legacy of black performers in their industry or others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 While we're talking about Dave being oblivious, can we talk about him making big deal on WOR about how the Raw main event saw a significant ratings drop in the female teen demographic and how that means Bayley is failure? I've seen people taking this and running with it without actually stopping to think that TEENS AREN'T HER TARGET AUDIENCE! She's like a female John Cena and I don't think 12-18 was every really a strong demographic for Cena so why should it be for Bayley? Her character seems directly targeted at the 12 and under crowd, not teens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 also (as Dave has noted) the female audience as a whole has been leaving Raw in droves the last while so it can't just be Bayley for one week on top. Dave and Bryan have been trying to figure out why females have been tuning out and I think they are just mindlessly spitballing on some of their guesses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 When is the last time a Raw main event hasn't lost viewers, though? Hour 3 in general is a success when it loses less than the normal average. Put Goldberg in the main event in the 3rd hour of Raw and it won't have as many viewers as hours 1 and 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianB Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 When is the last time a Raw main event hasn't lost viewers, though? Hour 3 in general is a success when it loses less than the normal average. Put Goldberg in the main event in the 3rd hour of Raw and it won't have as many viewers as hours 1 and 2. Yet, argubaly demos matter, because they'll usually be "stickier" over time. Additionally, WWE puts more weight into certain demos because they better translate and correlate to $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Funny how we only hear this when certain people get a shot, and we never hear anything about it when others get a shot. We heard constantly about bad ratings and merchandise figures when Daniel Bryan was the top challenger, but nothing about declining ratings when Seth Rollins was champion in 2015 and got a ton of TV time, and I don't think we've ever heard anything at all about his merchandise sales. I can't recall Dave discussing Charlotte's ability to move the needle either way. Double standards every way you turn. Despite conventional wisdom, numbers too have opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I remember the weekly lowest records ever being attributed to Seth's terrible reign and mega push. That was discussed in a lot of places. I did, at least. It was obvious he was a flop as a top guy from day one, though. It took him from the week after he turned until cashing in at WM to get reactions. Crowds did not give a SHIT about him for the first 8 months of his solo run. Not even mixed reactions like Roman or anything. Just silence. The whole time people were complaining about Roman's push, it was clearly Seth getting the mega push despite crowds not wanting it, but because he had his indie cred and is a "great" worker, most boards conveniently overlooked that he was accelerating the ratings decline, having dead crowds, and generally making the shows miserable having about 50% of screen time on Raw/SD. HHH decided Seth was his guy and stuck with it even when it was dreadfully clear it wasn't working at all. So then they do the face turn and fans still really don't care much about him in either direction. For a guy who has been pushed as hard as he has for the past few years to still be getting the reactions he gets today is a pretty big reg flag. Say what you want about Roman/Dean's in ring work, crowds aren't ever "meh" for them. Crowds pop for Seth's entrance and then are pretty bored during his matches, and there have been multiple times since he came back where the crowd was cheering the other guy in the ring, including Roman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Seth Rollins is in my top 5 guys that could disappear tomorrow and I wouldn't care. This goes back to Age of the Fall days with him in RoH. His inring is solid to good but dear God he gives you zero reasons to give a shit about him. He gets way too much of a pass for tanking ratings to historical lows during his title reign and he's been a pretty big failure in the current run. I would say he's a bigger failure than Roman is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I think Loss was specifically talking about the company feeding Dave info about Rollin's lack of ratings production or not selling merch, not necessarily message boards and social media criticizing him. If you'll recall when the Bryan fiasco went down in early 2014 the company told Dave they couldn't push him because his merch wasn't selling well and his segments weren't drawing ratings. Yet nothing of the same with Rollins or Reigns I suppose. Rollins got plenty of criticism online for his 2015 run but WWE internally was light on criticism of him and to be fair to Seth his reign was booked horribly with being subservient to Hunter and Stephanie and losing a ton in non title matches. Remember it was supposed to be heroic babyface Roman in that spot getting the big push Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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