Loss Posted February 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Yes, I was referring to WWE's point of view as reported through the WON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragemaster Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Funny how we only hear this when certain people get a shot, and we never hear anything about it when others get a shot. We heard constantly about bad ratings and merchandise figures when Daniel Bryan was the top challenger, but nothing about declining ratings when Seth Rollins was champion in 2015 and got a ton of TV time, and I don't think we've ever heard anything at all about his merchandise sales. I can't recall Dave discussing Charlotte's ability to move the needle either way. Double standards every way you turn. Despite conventional wisdom, numbers too have opinions. From memory it was because people were comparing Daniel Bryan to top draws like Cena and Austin because of the reaction he got from the crowds. Dave was pointing out that his Merchandise and rating painted a different reality and it was more the crowds was into doing the yes chant. If Seth got the same reaction as Daniel did at shows, there be more in-depth analyst of his drawing power. But from Seth crowd reactions, its obvious he's not that over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Seth Rollins is in my top 5 guys that could disappear tomorrow and I wouldn't care. This goes back to Age of the Fall days with him in RoH. His inring is solid to good but dear God he gives you zero reasons to give a shit about him. He gets way too much of a pass for tanking ratings to historical lows during his title reign and he's been a pretty big failure in the current run. I would say he's a bigger failure than Roman is. The shows got better when he got injured. Like...immediately better. But I agree going back to AOTF shit. That whole generation of indie guys along with the Bryan/Nigel post headbutt thing made me leave indie wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 The funny thing is that you can go all the way back to the days of the three hour Nitros to see that the pattern even then was a drop off in ratings in hour three. No matter who or what was put there, that hour would go off a cliff. Same thing is happening now, so in addition to everything else wrong with three hour Raws it will be used as proof "X isn't a draw" when they put someone they aren't 100% sold on in a main event position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 If you're in the main event of Raw and it draws like 70% of hour 2, you're a draw. Which is a bizarre way to measure that, but that's how things are today. Goldberg's show ending segments have been way up from the normal end of show match/segment, but still significantly lower than what hours 1 and 2 do. But it's like, hey, if you can stop the bleeding, you're a draw now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Regarding Meltzer was it fair that Dave gave Mr. Fuji the Worst manager award 9 times in a row? Seems a little bit against Fuji as im sure there were worst managers at the time 87 - 95. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Regarding Meltzer was it fair that Dave gave Mr. Fuji the Worst manager award 9 times in a row? Seems a little bit against Fuji as im sure there were worst managers at the time 87 - 95. Dave didn't 'give' Mr Fuji anything. The awards in the Observer are voted on by the readers of the newsletter, nothing to do with Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Regarding Meltzer was it fair that Dave gave Mr. Fuji the Worst manager award 9 times in a row? Seems a little bit against Fuji as im sure there were worst managers at the time 87 - 95. Dave didn't 'give' Mr Fuji anything. The awards in the Observer are voted on by the readers of the newsletter, nothing to do with Dave. It was a reader vote but to suggest Dave didn't have any influence on the process is disingenuous. If he's constantly telling the readership that someone sucks, there is a trickle down effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Fuji was pretty terrible, though. The only other option for that period at that level was probably Harvey Wippleman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 There were lots of other options, including Sapphire, Coach, Hiro Matsuda, and numerous post-Jimmy Hart Memphis doofuses. All worse and less effective than Fuji. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 I don't know why you'd expect people who were around for a year or less to get a worst award multiple years in a row. Fuji was the biggest one on that stage with lots of talent and exposure and he sucked at everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Its like the Razzies - those aren't really the worst movies, just the most high-profile. With that said, I don't think Fuji was that bad. He was never one of my favorites or anything, but he did okay in his role. Then again, I didn't mind Harvey Wippleman either. His only crime was being too indy and Southern in a down period for the WWF. Speaking of which, Kamala's book claimed that Wippleman's Mississipi origins - and accent - were both fake. Odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Harvey was born and raised in Pittsburgh, his mom was my Sunday School teacher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Its like the Razzies - those aren't really the worst movies, just the most high-profile. With that said, I don't think Fuji was that bad. He was never one of my favorites or anything, but he did okay in his role.Exactly. It's this weird quandary where you have to reach a certain level of success to actually be the "worst" at something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Regarding Meltzer was it fair that Dave gave Mr. Fuji the Worst manager award 9 times in a row? Seems a little bit against Fuji as im sure there were worst managers at the time 87 - 95. Dave didn't 'give' Mr Fuji anything. The awards in the Observer are voted on by the readers of the newsletter, nothing to do with Dave. It was a reader vote but to suggest Dave didn't have any influence on the process is disingenuous. If he's constantly telling the readership that someone sucks, there is a trickle down effect. Only if you don't have a mind of your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Re: the JYD/Tommy Rich HOF candidacies: I'm fascinated why the May 14, 1982 Houston show apparently drew so poorly that Boesch was thinking of going out of business. On top was JYD vs Bock for the AWA title and a big angle cage match between Tommy Rich and Gino Hernandez where Boesch would kiss Gino's foot if Rich won (and presumably the stip would be reversed otherwise). This stemmed from Gino interfering in Rich's AWA title shot back in March. Having seen some (but not all) of the build and just hot a heel Gino and Tully seemed at the time, as well as the fact that Rich wasn't just a national star but was decently positioned as his "aw, shucks" genuine self in Houston/Southwest, I don't get why it didn't work. Apparently it really didn't though. I don't know if it was just that Rich didn't transfer or what. Boesch @ Houston, TX – Sam Houston Coliseum – May 14, 1982 Hacksaw Duggan d. Ricky Morton Scott Casey d. Killer Brooks Superstar Billy Graham d. Jimmy Golden Bob Sweetan d. Ken Lucas Scott Casey, Jimmy Golden, Ken Lucas, & Ricky Morton d. Hacksaw Duggan, Superstar Billy Graham, Killer Brooks, & Bob Sweetan Manny Fernandez battled Mil Mascaras to a DDQ Wahoo McDaniel d. Tully Blanchard Gino Hernandez d. Tommy Rich AWA World Heavyewight Title: Junkyard Dog d. Nick Bockwinkel © by DQ Looks like I have this wrong. I had been confused. Things had not been drawing well AROUND this time but this card itself did well. I still hope we get that cage match at some point. Anyway, Re: Fuji. I think he was very effective, quite frankly. He was the best WWF manager for ringside interference of the era. There was a credibility to him for being a former tag champion, the fact he had a weapon that was easier to use in an actual match than a megaphone for instance (the cane could hook a leg, be a whack on the floor, or just be tossed in to his charges), and there was a certain credibility to the idea that he loved pain that worked with his stable. As a kid, he resonated due to the Karate Kid angle. The idea of an evil Mr. Miyagi was awesome and they sort of lucked into it. The problem, so as I see it, was this: He embarrassed Dave, who always wanted more realism and sport in wrestling at the detriment to so many of the things that actually make pro wrestling great. He was a cartoon character but a very effective one. Dave just hated cartoons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Regarding Meltzer was it fair that Dave gave Mr. Fuji the Worst manager award 9 times in a row? Seems a little bit against Fuji as im sure there were worst managers at the time 87 - 95. Dave didn't 'give' Mr Fuji anything. The awards in the Observer are voted on by the readers of the newsletter, nothing to do with Dave. It was a reader vote but to suggest Dave didn't have any influence on the process is disingenuous. If he's constantly telling the readership that someone sucks, there is a trickle down effect. Only if you don't have a mind of your own. Being influenced by someone widely regarded as the foremost authority in their field is hardly a sign of not having a mind of your own. It's not like Dave can wave a magic wand and make things happen out of whole cloth, but to suggest he doesn't have any influence at all is patently not correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Actually, let me come down even more harshly. The issue with Fuji in specific isn't just the cartoon or stereotype nature, but (and this is even more true as his run went on) instead the fact that he was basically the only Japanese sort of character/influence WWF had. There was a massive fetishization of Japanese wrestling and here was Fuji, far more effective in his role than he got credit for, basically (past the JBA) the only taste of that Dave could get in the biggest company that he covered. And he was the exact opposite of everything he wanted. Of course he was going to be negative about him and miss the positives. They were exactly opposed to what he valued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Yeah I pretty much agree with all those sentiments. Fuji had credibility with me as a kid because he was a physical threat. He had the cane and the salt. He was pretty vicious. I probably bought him as a threat more than Heenan or any manager in wwf at the time. Heenan and Hart were far more talented but Fuji just seemed so damn mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Fuji def wasn't the worst manager. Humperdink/Baron/Johnny V/Frenchy Martin/Coach/Superstar Graham were worse in their roles. He was an average promo but his cane was really protected. Even in a kayfabe sense he ended up beating all of his peers minus the Wiz as he took Yoko to the title, though dumping Demolition may be one of the worst manager moves ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Actually, let me come down even more harshly. The issue with Fuji in specific isn't just the cartoon or stereotype nature, but (and this is even more true as his run went on) instead the fact that he was basically the only Japanese sort of character/influence WWF had. There was a massive fetishization of Japanese wrestling and here was Fuji, far more effective in his role than he got credit for, basically (past the JBA) the only taste of that Dave could get in the biggest company that he covered. And he was the exact opposite of everything he wanted. Of course he was going to be negative about him and miss the positives. They were exactly opposed to what he valued. I think this is a very interesting point. Fuji winning worst manager year after year as a subconscious fuck you by Dave and his followers to the WWF for continuing to prop up a stereotypical Japanese sneaky heel and not embracing the Japanese workrate revolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Yeah I pretty much agree with all those sentiments. Fuji had credibility with me as a kid because he was a physical threat. He had the cane and the salt. He was pretty vicious. I probably bought him as a threat more than Heenan or any manager in wwf at the time. Heenan and Hart were far more talented but Fuji just seemed so damn mean I never, ever saw him as a physical threat. Short fat guy who waddles around ringside and lightly raps guys with his cane and looked legitimately painfully non-athletic or imposing. I'm supposed to take him as a physical threat when he's around guys like Powers of Pain and Demolition? Even in his wrestling career, there was nothing intimidating or imposing about him in the least, he was just good at being sneaky and cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Dave on DDP getting in the WWE Hall of Fame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Regarding Meltzer was it fair that Dave gave Mr. Fuji the Worst manager award 9 times in a row? Seems a little bit against Fuji as im sure there were worst managers at the time 87 - 95. Dave didn't 'give' Mr Fuji anything. The awards in the Observer are voted on by the readers of the newsletter, nothing to do with Dave. It was a reader vote but to suggest Dave didn't have any influence on the process is disingenuous. If he's constantly telling the readership that someone sucks, there is a trickle down effect. Only if you don't have a mind of your own. I won't make any of the obvious jokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Does anyone else find it bizarre that Meltzer refers to the Rock as Dwayne on Twitter even when speaking about him in a wrestling contest? Example: https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/834871578399682561 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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