[Vintage Article, 1982] AJPW President Mitsuo Matsune advises Baba to retire

[KinchStalker]

The following article, rewritten for clarity and flow, was published in the March 1982 issue of Monthly Puroresu. It begins with a February 3 interview with AJPW president Mitsuo Matsune, who had recently taken Giant Baba’s chair in the network takeover of 1981, before commenting on the state of affairs in its second half. This article provides frank insight into Nippon Television’s perspective on the stagnant company.

---

- It has been almost two months since you took over as president on December 14. After one tour, what is the actual situation of All Japan Pro-Wrestling from an insider’s viewpoint?

Matsune: On February 1, I attended a local show for the first time (at the Kyoto Seibukan) and experienced many things firsthand. Things were different than I had seen from the outside. As for the wrestlers, Stan Hansen, Nick Bockwinkel and Mil Mascaras received the strongest audience reaction in that order, followed by Tsuruta and Tenryu. Baba’s reaction was momentarily strong, but not sustained. It is clear that the foreigners are the highest ranked, and this is not good. Basically, I think that Japanese wrestlers should be the mainstay. Until now, though, All Japan Pro-Wrestling has been using so-called “big name” foreigners as its billboards. This must be changed.

What do you think about the fact that the audience reacted more strongly to Tsuruta and Tenryu than to Baba?

Matsune: Frankly speaking, this is the most important thing for us to consider now. Baba has already passed his prime (in terms of both ability and popularity). It is time to change aces; it is the time of Tsuruta and Tenryu’s youth. The current system with Baba is at its limit, and if it continues as it is, it will be ruined. I have told Baba about this since I joined All Japan Pro-Wrestling, but I think we need to have a full-fledged, heart-to-heart discussion once again. It will be soon.

- So you are recommending Baba's retirement? Baba-san said that it would be sad to see a person who used to be an ace disappear completely, and that he would like to play in the second team, i.e., as a supporting player, even though he will no longer be a top player.

Matsune: That's how it is with star players. It's hard for them to retire. [Sadaharu] Oh, the assistant manager of the [Yomiuri] Giants, must have thought that he could still play, but he ultimately decided that it was the right time to retire.* You have to listen to the voices of those around you. The reason that I am telling you this is for the sake of All Japan Pro-Wrestling. I want Baba to retire from wrestling and concentrate on his job as a promoter—contracting foreign talent, matchmaking—and other duties, such as training wrestlers. Whether he will stay out of the ring forever, or wrestle occasionally for regional tournaments is up to him. However, I will risk my post to recommend that Baba step down from his position as top wrestler and concentrate on being a promoter.

. If Baba-kun is not convinced at that time...Baba-kun will understand.

- Do you think you can gain popularity with Tsuruta and Tenryu on top and have a good chance in business?

Matsune: Of course, I can't say that I am confident. But you have to do it. If they are put in such a position, I think they will take responsibility and give it their all. Tsuruta, for example, may be depressed now, or he may have lost weight. I want these two to take the plunge and I have confidence in them that they can do it. Of course, I urge other people to be aware of this and to be inspired.

- I think the fact that the top rank is given to foreigners is one of the reasons for the high fees. AJPW has a total of 12 foreign wrestlers booked for the next Champion Carnival and the following Champion tour, which seems to me to be an invitation without regard to profitability.

Matsune: Both of these tours were booked before I came to AJPW. Due to these prior commitments, the number of foreign wrestlers will be reduced after these two tours, although it cannot be done all at once. The New Year Giant Series began to draw more spectators and increase its box-office revenue in the latter half of the series, after Hansen joined on January 15. However, this has only narrowed the deficit, and in fact the series as a whole has not turned a profit due to the high expenses. A company cannot survive with this kind of management attitude.

In the last interview (in the March issue of Deluxe Puroresu), the president expressed his desire to abolish the conventional system where Japanese wrestlers are paid on a per-match basis, and instead have them work on an annual contract like professional baseball players, although they would receive a monthly salary.

Matsune: There are still some details to be worked out, but this will be done as soon as possible. Wrestling is not only necessary for the stability of wrestlers' lives, but is also a fundamental issue for the company as a corporation. The company is not only the wrestlers on site, but also the front office staff. A company has to think about the company association. This point has been loose so far.

- Since you came from NTV and said that you "want to make the company stronger, not just leverage it," many fans are hoping that AJPW Relay’s current time slot (Saturdays, 5:30-6:30PM) will be shifted to prime time.

Matsune: For NTV, the current time slot is doing well in terms of sales; 11.4% of viewers watched the program in the last week of January - the program aired on January 30, and 19.8% of viewers graduated from the program (according to Video Research, Inc.). So I don't want to move it.

But as for All Japan Pro-Wrestling, they want to air in prime time, where there are more stations in the same time slot. As for the money, the airing fee (currently 5.5 million yen per week, for an estimated 290 million yen per year) is higher in primetime. Unless there is some circumstance that causes a program in that time slot to be canceled, it is impossible to interrupt the prime time slot during the April programming season. We are aiming for the next programming season in October. From my point of view, I would like to make it happen somehow. And I would like to increase the income.

After the New Year Giant Series is over, the heads of each post, including those in charge at NTV, will get together for the first meeting to discuss future issues.

Matsune: Baba will be in the U.S. on the 9th, and Tsuruta and Tenryu will be in the U.S. for more than 4 weeks after that. So we will have a meeting, including Baba, on the 8th. We all want to discuss this without matter hesitation. We can't continue like this. We must have courage to do what we think will make a positive difference. Otherwise, the future of All Japan Pro-Wrestling is bleak. I will do my best to brighten the future of AJPW. To do so, it is inevitable that I will be hated and considered a nuisance. Now is the time for All Japan Pro-Wrestling to think seriously and work seriously.

“Baba’s retirement” becomes the core of the remodeling

President Matsune, who joined All Japan Pro-Wrestling last December along with two other executives (executive director Yoshiaki Murakami and accounting director Tomohiro Kimura), gave an interview to this magazine (February 3) in which he proposed a reform plan. His blunt remarks were very upsetting.

Baba-kun is already tired both mentally and physically. You have reached your peak. Now is the time for you to retire. It is better for you to retire with regret. I recommend that you retire. I recommend that he retire and concentrate on being a promoter in his own right.

Baba celebrated his 44th birthday on January 23. When he fell in the bathtub of his dormitory during a tryout period for Taiyo Giants, he cut his right elbow, which is the lifeblood of a pitcher. On April 11, 1960, he joined Rikidozan's Nippon Pro Wrestling and entered his second professional life. After that, Baba became a star of Japanese professional wrestling with his huge body, which earned him the name of "Giant of the Orient".

In November 1965, he defeated Dick the Bruiser to win the International Championship, which was associated with Rikidozan, and after Toyonobori retired, he became the literal ace of Nippon Pro Wrestling. Baba is leaving the top position that he held for 16 years?

The theory that Baba had reached his limits and retired has been discussed recently among those involved and among his fans. At press conferences, he has often said lightly, "Do you want me to retire...?” On the other hand, he also says, "I can still do it. I'm not going to retire," causing the media to laugh.

However, Baba's position changed last December, when Matsune was appointed president and representative director of NTV in a move to strengthen the company, and Baba was elevated to the position of chairman of the board. Initially, AJPW executives protested against Matsune's appointment as president (which was unofficially announced last September), saying that Baba's symbolic position could not be bailed out, but this was not to be. The company had reached the point where it could not move financially without the support of NTV, which should be considered the parent company.

President Matsune's position is not simply that of a loaned president, but rather that of a "payer but also a talker" with NTV as his backer. From another perspective, his position could be described as that of a trustee in a corporate restructuring. Of course, NTV's actions have an impact on him. Baba, who has been a one-man show for the past 10 years since the company's founding, will naturally face a shakeup in his post.

At the end of last year, Baba and Tsuruta accompanied President Matsune to a meeting with Yosanji Kobayashi, Yomiuri Shimbun president and chairman of Nippon Television. What did he say to them? It was not a mere greeting. The most important condition for NTV to back up All Japan Pro-Wrestling is, above all, the ratings of the regular programs it airs. TV Asahi, which televises New Japan Pro-Wrestling, had a history with Nippon Pro-Wrestling (its predecessor station, NET TV, came in and NTV, which had exclusive coverage, backed out), so there were conditions that made it impossible for NTV to lose.

The recent corporate war between All Japan Pro-Wrestling and New Japan Pro-Wrestling is also called a "TV war" in reality.

The NTV side proposed the idea of replacing Baba, who had passed his peak and was declining in popularity, with young Tsuruta and Tenryu, and President Matsune pressed Baba about it.

Baba concentrates on being a promoter.

In order for All Japan Pro-Wrestling to compete with New Japan Pro-Wrestling (TV Asahi), or even surpass it, it was impossible for Baba, who could not have plus-alpha, which was reaching its limits. Baba is inevitably compared to the young Inoki (who will be 39 years old on February 20), who announced his entry into Nippon Pro-Wrestling on the same day and continued the rivalry race.

Inoki, with his banner of "ultra-radical wrestling," and Baba, who has lost his physical strength and power, will lose his fans no matter how much Baba relies on his past glory. It is only natural to look to the youth of Tsuruta and Tenryu for a new phase in the sport.

Baba was thrilled in the New Year's Giant Series. He brought out New Japan Pro-Wrestling's ace gaikokujin, Stan Hansen, at the end of last year, and introduced him in the second half of the series, which may have been the reason for his new rival to "liven up" the series. But it was also clear that Baba consciously pushed Tsuruta and Tenryu to the front. This trend has become more and more obvious since the end of last year. Does he know his own limitations, and has he chosen the path of changing aces?

Baba used to say that "Jumbo is popular in big cities like Tokyo and Osaka, but in the provinces, I am still more popular than Jumbo.” He used to say, "Jumbo still can't attract many customers.” However, Baba must accept the setback when he is told by President Matsune in his interview that "the level of response from the fans" is so strong.

Baba will travel to the U.S. in September to join Tsuruta and Tenryu on a three-territory tour of the U.S. NTV will record three weeks of broadcasts, and the matches will be shown on CRTs. The 10th Champion Carnival will begin on March 19 at Tokyo's Korakuen Hall, followed by the Grand Champion Series on April 23 at Tokyo's Kuramae Kokugikan. The five-week long series will continue until the final match.

In the meantime, Baba's matches are the center of attention. Tsuruta and Tenryu are expected to do well. If Tsuruta wins the Champion Carnival for the second time in two years, there will be no question of a change of aces. This possibility is conceivable. If that happens, Baba's retirement may become a reality. [Translator’s note: Baba would win the Carnival, but the tournament would be retired for nearly a decade.]

According to well-informed sources, there is a good chance that NTV will move to prime-time during the October TV program changeover period, and that it will be a new lineup with Tsuruta and Tenryu as the tops without Baba. [Translator’s note: this was not to be. AJPW would not return to prime time until October 1985.] Is this too much of a stretch? At any rate, Baba's retirement will take place in the second half of this year in one form or another. The Baba-Inoki match, which some people say is still popular even though it has faded away, will also disappear from the ring before too long.

President Matsune advises that Baba concentrate on his original role as a promoter; that is, Baba will be in charge of the front office, and President Matsune will be in charge of management. Dory Funk Jr. is registered as a booker, and he and his brother Terry, “The Funks”, are runners-up on the membership roster (see separate list).

Some believe that the paradigm of "top-ranking foreigners" will not be broken. The issue of contracts with foreign wrestlers is now being seriously reconsidered. All Japan Pro-Wrestling cannot leave this lineup as it is. President Matsune said, "Basically, Japanese wrestlers must be ranked higher. He clearly states, "Japanese wrestlers must be blessed by foreign wrestlers, rather than enriching them. The respect for foreign wrestlers that Baba has shown so far must be stepped back.”

“There is no problem if the number of foreign wrestlers is reduced. Currently, there are too many foreign wrestlers, and because of that, there are wrestlers who have “easy” matches and make tea in a short period of time. It should be possible to have a small number of wrestlers if they work hard and have longer matches. This would also reduce expenses. For this purpose, it is necessary for Japanese wrestlers to gain strength," said President Matsune in discussing the reform.

All Japan Pro-Wrestling is currently undergoing major changes. The biggest of these changes is the departure of Baba from his position. When the position of ace is replaced by Tsuruta, who is the main candidate for the "post-Baba" position, All Japan will be transformed. Of course, Tenryu will also be in the spotlight. All Japan Pro-Wrestling, which was launched on October 21, 1972, at the Machida City Gymnasium in Tokyo, will be moving into a new era after 10 full years. It is a reality that All Japan Pro-Wrestling cannot avoid any longer. New sake should be served in new leather bags.

 

*Baba and Inoki's tag team, B-I gun, was named in reference to O-N gun, the Yomiuri Giants' star duo at the time of Sadaharu Oh and Shigeo Nagashima. This sometimes extends to specific comparisons between the wrestlers and their respective counterparts. As I have read Fumi Saito put it in a Japanese article, Baba may have been the one who hit the homer, but Inoki was the one who loaded and ran the bases.