hhhisthegame

Haven't seen the ROH shows from August 12 and 13 2005 yet so I'm not sure if you guys covered this on the podcast, but I'm currently watching Sacrifice 2005, the TNA Show that took place on August 14, and it's a really ROH heavy card! Featuring AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe in the X-cup finals, and Christopher Daniels vs Austin Aries in a non-title X-division match (Aries won an internet poll to get to come in for the match. The other choices in the poll? Roderick Strong, Jay Lethal, and Matt Sydal) Alex Shelley is on the card as well in action against Shocker (Shelley has made sporadic appearances for a while but now is the first time he seems to be getting significant weekly ring-time). I noticed Shelley doing the diamond pose he's been doing with the Embassy. It's interesting how interconnected TNA and ROH are becoming again in this time period. Edit: Having finished the TNA show, WOW AJ vs Joe was amazing on this show! You don't see anything like that anymore. AJ might not be amazing on every ROH show since the matches tend to be more nuanced but in TNA when he can go full out with action it can be amazing, and that brings some of the best out of Joe too.

It's been ages since I've commented but I've been still watching ROH shows along with the calendar year, and listening to your podcast after each one, and it's still one of my favorite podcasts. Of course now I'm in summer 2005, and they've moved up to four shows a month and I'm not sure if I can keep up the pace....It'll be very sad when I catch up to you guys and can't listen after each show. Watching ROH for the first time, I'm loving finally seeing the Summer of Punk. It's awesome and such a good angle. I'm from Long Island and wish I had gone to Sign of Dishonor and Escape from New York, though I was only 13 at the time and didn't yet go to indy wrestling shows. As a note, on one of the shows recently (or recently when you guys were up to summer 2005), Matt claimed we haven't had the first "This is Awesome" chant in ROH yet. I'm pretty sure we HAD already had it inside the four corners match at Sign of Dishonor, after all the dive spots mid-match. I remember being disappointed hearing it because it's my least favorite chant and Long Island was the first crowd to bring it outside of TNA lol. It makes sense though, since that crowd seemed really into guys like AJ Styles. One of the biggest revelations for me watching these shows is how much I LOVED jack Evans in late 2004 and 2005. He does all the crazy moves but he also has the personality he never turns off which makes him so fun to watch. I can't wait until he comes back. Another point, Trevor, I was SO happy to hear how much you liked the Nigel vs Colt match at Escape From New York because I ALSO loved that match and thought it might have been my favorite of the night too. And I ALSO was disappointed seeing how many people didn't like it. I just thought it was so fun how they played with the rules and it felt like a trickster battle, which was really fun to watch. I just found it really engaging, so there's at least two of us. I really like Colt Cabana though, and Nigel too. Colt's one of my favorites in ROH watching this, I also loved his pure title match with Joe. I tend to like the guys who add the personality to their already solid wrestling. (To that note, the one guy I'm not loving as much as you guys and others do is Roderick Strong. I LIKE him, and enjoyed some of his matches with Shelley, Punk, and AJ in particular so far, but his look, personality, even his name is just a bit too bland for me, compared to guys like Punk, Styles, Joe, Low Ki, Homicide, etc. It seems he's going to get a big push the rest of the year so I'll see if he wins me over. I'm not as high on Gibson as most either, even though he's technically very good he leaves me feeling a bit cold. I love Punk, Joe, Evans, Danielson, Cabana.) By this point in 2005, Homicide seems like the guy who's been such an important player for so long he's really overdue a championship run. I know he gets one eventually, but he's been on what feels like every show for three years always as a solid performer. I'm listening to the Homecoming review now and shocked to hear that Gibson already is going back to WWE. I know he beats Punk but have no idea why they would give it to a guy on the way out instead of Christopher Daniels, who IMO should have had the ROH belt WAY earlier than he did. But I don't know how long his ROH run will last for I suppose. I really don't know why Azriel is the special K member who's getting....not a push per se, but whatever attention he's being given. Others impress me more, even Dixie has shone more in his brief chances. I feel like sometimes ROH tries to push people but it's odd how little they win. I was baffled when Gibson took the pin at Homecoming to Homicide in the 6-man. I'm not sure if you guys will cover this, but I know Gibson is the next champ, and looking at his W/L record, it's awful. He's literally lost his last SEVEN matches, albeit many of them four-ways. Homecoming, Fate of an Angel, Escape From New York, Sign of Dishonor, Death Before Dishonor, Future Is Now, and New Frontiers. Roderick Strong is another one they're pushing hard but he seems to rarely win, and mostly against lower carders. I've heard you guys say how many of the old ROH mid-card mainstays are on their way out and I have to say it makes me pretty sad. Dunn and Marcos, Carnage Crew, Special K...Special K was honestly one of my favorite parts of 2003 ,sloppy as they were, they were so fun to watch. I'm honestly happy Carnage Crew got a thank-you run. Though I sort of wish Dunn and Marcos had got the chance too, despite their limited ring-work. Even if they had beat Carnage Crew, and lost it the next week to stabilize the belts again. Finally, I'm also watching TNA 2005 (and skimming WWE) at the same time and it's fun to see the crossovers. I have to say, going to TNA in some ways may have been the best thing for Joe as a performer. I don't know what it is but he just seems like a monster there in a way he doesn't in ROH, and I can see his improvements as a performer in mid-2005. The commentary actually does a great job putting him over. Mike Tenay was raving about how he's only lost one singles match in three years (which surprised me until I recently realized that isn't true, he's lost to Aries twice at least. I don't know if he has any other losses in there). The same weekend as Fate of an Angel he had an awesome match with Chris Sabin at No Surrender 2005 and it was fun seeing them work matches even more around him being a monster than he does in ROH, due to ROH's style. I believe he'll elevate his game even more by the fall as he starts getting to face AJ and Daniels. (On a side note, Daniels has been X-division champ for a while, since March 2005 I believe, and it's interesting they've never had him really mention that in ROH) Anyway, sorry for the wall of text, but thanks again for the awesome podcast, it makes watching ROH twice as fun to hear you guys dissect it after, and it's especially fun seeing all these shows for the first time. The summer 2005 has been especially exciting, and 2005 in general has been pretty great. I'll miss Gabe on commentary though, I always have found Prazak to be my least favorite commentator, and while Gabe was not good, he was always funny to listen to because of it.

It's interesting, I was thinking that exact same thing when you were discussing the Evans/Danielson match. You mentioned how the wrestlers used to have different styles, whereas today most people are very well-rounded. It was said in a neutral way, but I was thinking how I miss having wrestlers with more distinctive differences, so a match like Danielson/Evans that told a different story than just an even back-and-forth you-do-a-move-then-I-do flow is sorely missed today. Personally I loved that match. I think that a lot watching older wrestling in general, having different styles and power differences to tell a story, or even a match where one guy is clearly better than the other and just looks impressive. I just think wrestling has sort of gone down the wrong path in some ways. In some cases it works....I found Lucha Underground amazing because they had a lot of crazy storytelling and in universe they were basically comic book characters, so the in-ring style worked. But generally I miss more story-based matches and having power guys be power guys, etc, and not everybody just doing dives and flips. I enjoy some of the style introduced in the early 2000s, I love the X-division and watching AJ Styles wrestle, and the athletic explosive matches, but I think overall they led wrestling down the wrong path in the end. ROH is just sort of a strange middle ground sometimes since it wasn't as exciting as the X-division work but didn't tell as much of a story as WWE. But I totally agree about Paul London, and its a shame a lot of people (like me until this last year) wouldn't know how good he was

Don't worry, it makes sense! And I've already gotten some spoilers for the ROH world title just from reading other reviews etc. I don't know everything but I do know who the next two champions are at least. I know vaguely who wins the title after that, but not when or in what order. Tag and Pure I have no idea about so Im excited about that. I've just watched Survival of the Fittest 2004 and thought it was a great show, overall, despite the weak first half. To me, you can feel how the promotion is heating up, and it's so cool seeing all these guys who are still relevant in wrestling today making their names for themselves. The main event was awesome and that really made the show worth watching. It's interesting, despite how much Im enjoying this watch, I often find myself not loving the in-ring style of the average ROH matches, which at times can feel a bit aimless to me, without the build and climax of matches you see in WWE, or the nonstop action of TNA. ROH seems to occupy a weird middle ground to me. I loved early stiff matches with guys like Low Ki, Styles, Joe, but some kind of energy I thought went out when they lost Low Ki. And Ive really been feeling ROH misses Paul London. I was kind of surprised to see positive reception in online reviews for Homicide/Briscoe and Punk/Hydro (you guys liked the latter as well). I found both of those matches to be pretty weak, and neither really did anything for me at all (Besides making me think that I can't believe Jay Briscoe planted himself on his head seemingly on purpose at the end there for the post-match angle). The wrestling was fine but it just seemed like stuff happening without much flow (in my opinion). I'm also very surprised they pushed Punk so hard as heel, after the post-match with Joe at the last show, and his promo with Joe on this one. That was a little jarring I thought. Hydro did not stand out to me here, which I got the feeling he was supposed to, and I think this was when I really started thinking of Paul London and how much he knew how to work the story aspect of a match in a way that not many people do, and its a shame that his ROH run was so short-lived with so much more potential, and then he never reached that potential anywhere else. I was honestly shocked just HOW good he was because I had no idea from seeing just his WWE stuff. His matches with Styles/Bryan were awesome and he added some direction I think in how he played sympathetic babyface. He even got matches with Xavier very over (though I also miss Xavier who I was surprisingly really enjoying since he returned for the field of honor). It's sad to think about what could have been with him, in general. Anyway, the qualification matches were just ok, but I LOVED the Danielson/Evans match, just watching Danielson stretch him and look like a monster. I couldn't believe it when you guys said Danielson was only 23 here. I never would have guessed he was so young, even knowing how old he is today. I didn't stop and do the math and he comes across as a veteran, not a rookie. It's really impressive. It's interesting seeing him slow down his style a bit from his first year in ROH. It was also interesting how quickly the fans turned on Matt Stryker (though I also really don't like him). I was curious about the fan who seemingly yelled "You're not even the best Matt Stryker" considering Matt Striker (who I assume he'd be referring to?) had yet to debut in WWE. Was he making a name for himself on local indys? I was really surprised to see Aries being the member over Shelley that ended up getting the big push here. I for one was sure Shelley was going to win the opener, and was shocked when he didn't. It's interesting because I know Austin Aries very well from TNA and just in general since he's been very prominent in the last decade, so it was hard for me to see the main event in the correct light as it would have been at the time, where Aries is just a newcomer. To me I just saw Danielson and Aries as I know them now, but it must have been really cool to see Aries as a relative nobody and watch him start breaking out with that performance. The main event, overall, I thought was awesome. I didn't expect the Danielson win. I DEFINITELY didn't expect Cabana to pin joe, but as a Cabana fan I was really excited and hope it leads to some bigger opportunities for him. That came out of nowhere and the crowd reacted huge. (Reminds me of my excitement when Cabana somehow made his way up the top five for that brief period in 2003, but nothing ever came of that) I thought the booking was smart as you guys did. Cabana pinning Joe elevates Cabana, Mark Briscoe pins him directly after, which elevates Marc for pinning the guy who just pinned Joe. Then Aries gets to shine at the end. I think Cabana, Mark and Aries were the three in this match that most needed a rub and they all got that. And Danielson gets a big win too. You guys mentioned we'll finally get Danielson/Joe which I can't wait for. Danielson/Aries at the end was just awesome and Aries looked like he belonged 100%. I loved all the forearms they were throwing at each other. The weakest showings go to Joe and Homicide who are already extremely established and can afford to not stand out here. Everyone in this match did a great job (Though I honestly can't believe Homicide went with the the tag in, tease fight with Joe, then instantly tag out trope. I thought he was a crazy demon that wanted to kill Joe? What happened to THE DEMON HAS RISEN!) I loved your guys discussion about the contendership circle/ring. The system itself was funny enough, but I cannot at Gabe being forced to acknowledge they don't know what to call it, and then from that point on, consistently referring to it as the "contendership ring or circle" and the "contendership ring or contendership circle". Absolute peak Gabe Sapolski commentary. I was dying at that. Im excited to find out what the new code of honor is next show. I hope it's as uselessly enforced as the last one, where they claim that ROH is different because here you won't see any of these things, and then they proceed to break all of these rules from like show 1. The code of honor is so ridiculous because it doesn't make any sense in kayfabe (outside interference and ref bumps are always illegal in every company), so the only thing you can take it as is an out-of-kayfabe promise to the fans. But then it even fails at that because they don't even follow their own rules. I realize ROH was better about this than the other companies at the time, so compared to WWE and TNA they definitely did less of it, but I still think its silly. I forget which show it was where a valet interfered and Gabe goes into a long rant about how this wasn't really interfering in the match for some reason which was also hilarious. This is why I will miss his commentary in all its over-explainy insecure glory. Speaking of Gabe, you guys mentioned how weird it was that they bothered to say CM Punk has to be pinned to lose the titles in the scramble match, thus detracting from the drama of the match even though Punk was going to win anyway, making it pointless. I agree it detracted from the match, but I feel like this was just more of Gabe feeling like he has to explain more than he ever does. A scramble match where Second City Saints can lose the championships without being pinned is unfair, and out of the spirit of ROH, so Gabe just HAS to put in the stipulation to make the match seem like a fair championship match, even though it detracts from the match itself. It's like the "very simple" fatal fourway where you had to pin Joe to win the championship, or else you become the #1 contender, unless Joe wins, and then there's no #1 contender. I hated Gabe's commentary at first but now it just entertains me endlessly. But for the scramble, what ALSO detracted from the match was that INSTANTLY as soon as it starts everybody starts trying to pin each other, even though CM Punk isn't in the ring!! Don't they want to win the tag team titles?? One last note is that Roderick Strong (who is unrecognizable in 2004 wow) was cracking me up in the final Gen Next promo on this show. He looks like he has no idea what to do with his face. Anyway, overall I'm really enjoying the show and the company is heating up. The undercard may not have stood out the most, but the main event was great, the booking was good, and the undercard supported that main event, so I thought this show was a very good one. This period since Reborn Stage One is the most I've enjoyed the company since summer of 2003 (For whatever reason I became a huge mark for Special K and absolutely loved the period where they were racking up wins over and over again....and of course punk/raven). Right now Punk/Joe/Danielson are the ones Im loving, as I always do. Before that it was Styles/Low Ki/London. But I'm hoping to find an act (like Special K) that I didn't know before that I start becoming a huge fan of. Maybe that will be Gen Next (I know all the wrestlers, but not in this form) since they are making such an impact lately. Sorry this post was so long, but I continue to love your podcast, and will be proud to join you Trevor in the Fauerstans.

So lately I've been watching ROH from 17 years ago in 'real time'. So I just watch 2004 shows as the dates pass in 2021. I've been doing that for a while now, as I started watching ROH from the first show. This last weekend I watched World Title Classic. Your podcast has made such a great companion piece, I absolutely love it. (I also had tweeted you guys a couple times under a different name, I was the one who complained about spoilers). Until this point I had never seen ROH besides a couple of the HD net shows and a few PPVs in the 2010s so i'm watching through from the beginning and having a great time, in all the good or bad, and your podcast always brings out both. I am going to be so sad when Gabe stops doing commentary. He makes me laugh with his bad commentary almost every show...the commentary over the Homicide freakout at the end of Generation Next was so funny. I love that you guys call him out for all that too. Honestly laughing at Gabe's blunt commentary is one of the highlights of ROH to me, I can't imagine it with somebody else. He says ridiculous things every single show. He's often horrible but I've grown to love it. Some additional context to World Title Classic that didn't get mentioned. You guys brought up Alex Shelley saying a line about how somebody "didn't see it coming, like Ray Charles". What didn't get mentioned, that makes this line even harsher is that Ray Charles had died two days before this show. Ouch... I loved the discussion about the context of Joe/Punk. First time ever seeing that match and loved it. I have to disagree on the fan interaction I thought that was great and a highlight of the match, but I guess I just love seeing the personalities of Joe and Punk. I'm really loving the Generation Next stuff. It's interesting seeing Alex Shelley in ROH, as I was always a TNA fan. I've actually been watching TNA alongside ROH, also from the beginning, but unlike ROH, I had watched TNA starting in 2004. I think Chris Sabin had the problem that he was great in TNA, then he came to ROH and seemed not up to par because his style didn't mesh so well and he was trying to work the ROH style. Alex Shelley I think had the OPPOSITE problem. In ROH he had the chance to truly shine with his creative submissions but without the methodical ROH pace in TNA I think it took him some time to really hit his stride (Though we'll see how I feel on rewatch, because I haven't got to Shelley in TNA yet. That's just how I remember it) I can't believe they didn't main event with Joe/Punk. I had trouble getting into the ultimate endurance match at all, and I can't believe Gabe keeps calling the Prophecy/Second City Saints feud "one of the hottest feuds in wrestling". To me its not even the hottest feud in ROH. Hope that discussing the shows here is fine I wasn't sure the best place to do that!