David Mantell

A punch was a foul, not a "weapon". It got heat. It was a foul like "handball" is a foul in Association Football (and I suppose "football" was a foul in Field Handball.) I like Vic best in clean matches where he is clearly enjoying playing the sport at which he excels. Vic versus Johnny Saint both times but especially the 1-1 draw in Oldham 1981, Vic and brother Bert Royal versus brothers Roy and Tony StClair in 1971, Vic's various bouts with Mick McMichael where their banter was used to express their friendship while playing each other at sport but (except for the 1983 bout cut short in round 2) never got in the way of them putting on a technical clinic.

He wasn't a comedy wrestler like Les Kellet, Catweazle or Kevin Coneelly. Any humour was just him being himself. Throwing punches was a serious foul in British Wrestling. Heels got heat - and public warnings - for it and would go to great trouble to conceal it from the referee. Blue eyes only ever did it once in a blue moon in dire emergencies and would have fits of guilty conscience over it. That punch Faulkner threw that cost him the British Welterweight Championship was probably the only one of his career.

There was one more Breaks Vs Faulkner TV match in 1977, a tag match from Skegness filmed August and screened October, pitting Breaks and Alan Dennison against the Royal Brothers. Bert and Vic won 2-2. Dennison was a blue eye by this point so I don't know how that heel team worked out

That would be this:

The classic lineup of the Sensational Superflies - Jimmy Ocean and Rowdy Ricky Knight with his missus Sweet Saraya (the current Saraya/Paige's parents) - the same tag team plus sexy harlot manageress from Reslo 20 years earlier - in the ring at the legendary Fairfield Hall in Croydon for Jimmy's retirement match as the headline bout of a Fan Appreciation Night for All Star Wrestling . The Flies' archenemies back in the day were blue eyed boys The Liverpool Lads, Doc Dean and Robbie Brookside. However after WCW used the Lads as enhancement talent then dumped them, Doc Dean stayed on in Florida as an indie wrestler and plumber (before dying suddenly in 2018) while Robbie came back to Britain and became an elder statesman on the UK scene (while furthering his German career as mega heel Wildcat Robbie Brookside) forming a new Liverpool Lads with his cousin Frankie Sloan. I posted a match of the new Lads in Leamington Spa 2010 several pages back but with Doc Dean, although then still alive, settled in Florida, the Superflies had to make do with the New Lads as their final opponents. Fast paced if technically unremarkable tag bout which made the punters happy especially the older one from the early 90s. @Jetlag please note one of the Superflies does a DDT on Sloan. The Flies get quite a bit of heat on Sloan, dragging him out of shot into somewhere in the stands, until Robbie tags in. The match ends with Saraya trying to interfere and having both her men slingshot straight into her. She collapses to the mat and the good guys score the win. It's missing from this version but I've seen a longer cut of this where all five break character and hug in the ring to commemorate Jimmy's retirement. Ring announcer the legendary Lee Bamber. 25 years earlier he was ring announcer on ITV at that same venue but with blond hair and a gold jacket to match.

This was a title change. Breaks was challenging for the British Welterweight Championship after he one by the one required submission in the first of the four aTV bouts and so earned a title shot. The score was one apiece. Between rounds. Breaks charged into Faulkner's corner, apparently up to no good. Faulkner slugged him and for that was disqualified making Breaks the new champion (in all Europe, titles changed on any sort of win.). This gave the heel Crybaby massive heat which he only further enhanced by bragging about being the new champion. The match on ITV Wrestling site is where Breaks regained the title. However Breaks appealed due to Vic scoring the winner while Breaks was distractedly having an argument with Bert Royal. Due to two controversial title changes in a row, the title was declared vacant. Breaks beat Faulkner for the vacant title that November at the Royal Albert Hall in their fourth TV bout. but shortly afterwards lost it to Dynamite Kid who then became European Champion after beating Jean Corne (on loan from the world of French Catch.) There was a rerun of the Bert Royal interference angle in 1979 when Breaks, who had regained the vacant British title after Kid went off to Stampede, appeared to have lost it to Davey Boy Smith. then a TBW billed as Young David, after his trainer Alan Dennison (who had been inspired to repent his heel ways and turn good after facing Dynamite in the latter's 1976 TV debut and was now a confirmed friend of the Billington/Smith family) distracted Breaks. This led to a famous rematch where Davey scored a final round equaliser to make it 1-1 (and would actually have got a second win 2-1 had not an earlier fall been disallowed) causing an enraged Breaks to dare Dennison to come after his title. This Alan did and won it and held on for 3 years before losing it back to Breaks in 1983 - just in time for the Next young whizzkid who beat Breaks - Danny Boy Collins - to make his debut.

Interesting considering the wars those two later had over the CWA World title. A male German version of Klondyke Kate and Naughty Nicky Monroe's mid 80s heel team (except they later reconciled) with Mitzi Mueller as Otto Wanz. Or maybe the Haystacks/Daddy mid 70s tag team before the feud.

He wasn't a Funny Guy. He was a skilled technical wrestler who was - legitimately - a bit of a "cheeky chappy" type but please do NOT mistake that for him being a comedy wrestler. He may have liked a laugh now and then, as we all do, but he was basically a serious wrestler.

Two notable things apart from the action: firstly there was a rather splendid cup up for grabs. The other was that Renault's three young daughters were sitting in on commentary. Not that the commentator could get much out of them except a long sheepish pause followed by "Oui" rather like the prelude to Monty Python's Nudge Nudge sketch with John Cheese interviewing not very verbose schoolboys Palin, Jones and Idle. About five minutes before the end they give up and interview their young blonde mother. He does get one of them to declaim a clearly rehearsed goodbye. It's a surprise Renault was not his early 80s skinhead biker Blouson Noir look from his tag team with Jacky Richard. I know he is meant to be a Ted but he looks more like your average 1970s street thug, like the late great Lee Brilleux, lead singer with 70s pub rock band Dr Feelgood or maybe some criminal thus trash on 70s UK cop show The Sweeney. I was expecting him to be a heel as per 9 years later but here he's having a clean match in the French style and @Jetlag this is how the French clean matches are. Very acrobatic, very "Souple" (ultimate compliment for a French wrestler from the French commentators) . Lots of reverse snapmares, backflips from standing wristlocks, not so much flying headscissors but lots and LOTS of cross buttock throws in a side headlock. Renault is a lot taller than Saulnier and the imbalance reminds me of Adrian Street and Jim Breaks on ITV about 6 months earlier. A few few pauses in side headlocks as there are no round breaks so they need rest. One brief bit of needle triggers a Manchette exchange and nearly a ropes foul til L'Arbitre calms them both down and they shake hands. Saulnier gets the pin for the win and the cup with a neat folding press with bridge that would please Johnny Saint, Kent Walton and probably Bob Backlund too. Verdict: great scientific catchweight/poids libre bout. Le Petit Prince is still the best Saulnier opponent though.

There was always a slow accretion of bits and bobs of American wrestling in all Euro territories. Cages. Chains and wrestlers carrying snakes were all cited as examples of the vulgar barbarism of the American game in one BBC breakfast TV news panel of promoters in 1988 but by 1990 Reslo had given us the first two and a decade later we had not only a snake but Jake himself to administer it (until he had to flee the country after he starved it to death.) Ultimately British and therefore European wrestling was the mutant love child of 1920s newsreels of Strangler Lewis era American Wrestling and the legit Lancashire Wrestling scene. So I am cautious about lamenting such impurities as the beginning of the end. Closed fist remained enforcedly illegal and could still get heat from a crowd in Britain even in the Noughties - recently Rumble has been enforcing the no closed fist rule but it's not getting the heat it would have 20-30 years ago. A DDT is just a front chancery and drop - legit enough for FILA to ban it from Olympic Freestyle. The likes of Ecki were also working for Germany's New School Americanised promotions like WXW and the GWF (French equivalent was ICWA, British equivalents were UWA, FWA, LDN post 2012), so they had to wrestle Americanised some of the time.

Are we talking Otto versus the Americans or the WWF/WCW invasion? Alex Wright as well as Brits like Regal, Taylor and Finlay were if anything pumping up interest in the European style in America and hence among European fans of American Wrestling. In Britain there was the realisation that this strange exotic style came from our neck of the woods and was something we had grown up taking for granted - I imagine the same was the case in Germany/Austria/Switzerland. (Alex actually got a bigger push in WCW than the Brits- none of them progressed beyond the TV title but Alex got to be a World Tag Team Champion. Regal and Finlay only achieved things like World tag or secondary (IC/US) singles titles in WWE in the Noughties.

Yes, we examined him earlier. I would refer in particular to this comment: "Although like the old generation of Chall, Dieter senior etc they work and sell holds over longer periods, these guys do know their escapes, especially very British inspired ones like rollout from wrist levers ( both KK and Franz who goes over on his head like Owen Hart.). "

He seems to Euro it up pretty effectively in this match:

Germany had a technical style but it was a slower more ponderous one than Britain or France, with holds worked for longer periods. People like Axel Dieter, Achim Chall and Rolo Brasil all worked that style, the likes of Mile Zrno and Louis Lawrence carried it on to the next generation. You see more of it on the VDB CrappyCam footage than you can on the IBV/CWA broadcast quality multicamera footage. What the Germany/Austria really needed was its own firebrand skill-and-speed lightweight superstar like George Kidd, Le Petit Prince and Johnny Saint who could have really shaken up the scene. German fans got the point of Johnny Saint but German promoters didn't. Steve Wright was the nearest Germany/Austria had to a resident technical wizard and he was an import, but he seems to have managed to produce a bit of a revolution. By the 90s we suddenly have a new generation like Steve's son Alex Wright, Ecki Eckstein, Ulf Herman and Michael Kovacs who worked a more British style and could have British style technical matches with visitors like Danny Collins, Robbie Brookside, Jason Cross and James Mason. Case in point the Kovacs Vs Cross match I previously posted: Otto Wanz Versus The American Stars was, as I've said, was merely the Austrian/German equivalent of Big Daddy Tag Matches in Britain or Flesh Gordon And The Cartoon Characters in France.

Ian McGregor having similar problems to Raymond four decades later. He loses by Gator submission. Skull attacks him after the match. The submission is disallowed. So Murphy promptly knocks the kid out for a count of 10 and wins that way. Sacrificial lamb, basically.

I was mainly thinking of the criticism levelled at people like Ted DiBiase for being a "wrestling heel." Some of that mindset existed even in Britain. Steve Logan MK1 (the heel South London Iron Man one) was once in the gym shooting and coming up with some really great moves. A watching and impressed Johnny Kincaid asked him afterwards why he didn't do more of this in his pro bouts. Logan replied that with a face like his who would want to cheer him. Though what that had to do with using good technical moves is anyone's guess.

French Wrestling in Germany. I'm classing this as German Catch despite it being two French stars, not so much because it took place in Germany but because it was a CWA show. By my rules, the Pete Roberts Vs Dave Bond 1978 FFCP bout on Antenne 2, and Rocco Vs Danny Collins and Scrubber Daly Vs Kid McCoy on 1991 EWF New Catch tapings are both French wrestling. However Summerslam '92 counts as American Wrestling, the EWP's show in Kent 2003 counts as German Wrestling and Joe E Legend Vs Chad Collier on an All Star show in Croydon 2004 counts as British wrestling. Flesh Gordon we all know about, Kato may be the same person as Kato Bruce Lee on Antenne 2 1983-1985. By American standards this would be scientific albeit slow. Holds are worked for long periods without counter, most of the first half is each man applying a standing wristlock. Kato eventually does a British style rollout and Flesh does some traditional French counters- backflipping in a top wristlock, the flying headscissor take down. This was for a World Mid Heavyweight title which Flesh won from Kato. I wonder what referee Mick McMichael (kiltless for once) English commentator Orig Williams or more to the point Mountevans champion Marty Jones thought of that.

Two different recordings of the same bout. One fan cam and one CWA OB multicam home video match licensed to Eurosport New Catch. Colley still looking like Detroit Demolition from Southeast Continental. (Ironically his Demolition co-founder Bill Eadie also wore that style of leotard in his later years.). His bone is the only part of the Moondog gimmick on show. Scientific Steve makes a breath of fresh air from Obese Otto as an opponent, confounding the big clumsy American heel with all sorts of technical and acrobatic tricks en route to the win. Now personally I prefer a good two way scientific match but I know a lot of you Americans think this is how things should ideally be, a scientific good guy Vs a big brawly brutal bad guy to emphasise the face/heel divide. So I suppose you should all like this. Me, I'm just happy to see a CWA match with some technical work in it, even if one sided.

Crusher Mason (no relation to James) or Butcher Mason as he is called in Germany or the Mighty Chang as he is here was a very nice bloke much loved in the dressing room and you take your life in your hands if you criticise his matches anywhere within shouting distance of his old mates. Other than that he was a generic strong-working Superheavyweight so if Muir here or Mal Kirk aren't your cup of tea, Mason/Chang won't be either. AFAIK he never worked for Joint (so, also AFAIK never did Daddy tags) so despite years of Reslo, Screensport (including a rather lovely promo in a beige sweater) VDB Cheap-cam Home Video and even someone's 1975 home movie snippet of a holiday camp shows, this was his only ever ITV appearance (possibly also because he normally wore a studded leather waistband which he's not wearing here - which he was known to take off and use as a weapon.) This was shortly after Kirk's death and one newspaper reviewer was inspired by the tragedy to tune in and show their respect by saying Chang and Muir looked like they had just come home from Rudolph Hess's funeral. Oh dear.... Like Tarzan Johnny Wilson, Dave Taylor has the size to stand up to Muir. "This could develop" says Kent and it does, into a fight more than a scientific match (other than a few strengthholds and Chang getting sun out of toe holds.). Taylor's forearm versus the heels ' rulebending. Eventually the Taylors start to break rules too Dave's closed fist punch gets a GASP from the audience. Chang does have a neat double wristlock which Dave tries to backdrop out of - and succeeds! Taylor gets a neat flying bodypress on Muir for the opener. You can see how things are heading as the villains clock up public warnings. Chang gets an over the shoulder backbreaker together the equaliser but then doesn't release, leaving both heels on their second and final PW. The referee allows for retaliation a blatant feet first jump by Dave onto Chang's stomach but unlike the punch earlier, the fans accept this. Chang gets his backbreaker on again but Muir pulls a leg to help and this gets the heels DQ'd but not before a brief tease where it looks like they got away with it.

Steve by now with no tache although BJR also has one, somewhat Stan Hansen-ish Rowlands is no Bert Royal and heavier too. He does neatly catch Taylor early on with a cross headscissor throws while Steve is busy trying to get a leglock on but Taylor easily turns it into a standing Indian Deathlock.BJR goes for a flying headscissor just as the bell goes which could have been interesting given his greater weight. The injury finish is an odd one I'll grant you, BJR in the corner puts a foot on the middle rope and apparently hype tends the joint or something. It's really not quite clear what the injury is supposed to be. Cramp, perhaps? Maybe if I spoke Welsh I could tell from Bryn Fon's commentary. I had to smile when Steve brought that that pink towel in to help the referee sort Rowlands out. Two crucial points about Reslo: 1) It only gradually became a wilder crazier show over time, starting with televising women's wrestling and moving on later to gimmick matches and more outlandish fouling such as managerial interference, chairs, tables and TV cables and use of the plastic crowd barriers as weapons. 2) Injury finishes were accepted as normal by Orig Williams just as they were by Max Crabtree or even Norman Morrell. Heels were (eventually) allowed to go further in their heelishness but the conventions of clean wrestling were still respected as a backbone of a serious sporting presentation. The same holds true for Dixon's show on Screensport (although not so for New Catch, probably because France had a more even balanced between Les Bons and Les Mechants than there was between Blue Eyes and Villains in the UK, so there were few if any clean matches over there or on Old Catch on A2/FR3 by the mid 80s.)

There seems to be quite a bit of German, specifically VDB cheap-cam, footage of Steve and I know he visited Stampede (his name came up recently in a round of Guess The Program on one Jim Cornette's podcasts - Corny didn't know who he was.) and Kent Walton mentions Mexico - I wonder if there is any footage of that? Talking of moustaches it's interesting to see Taylor without his - or his "mullet" hairdo - seeing as I'm mainly familiar with his late 80s TV match tagging with Marty Jones Vs Murphy and South. Here he looks like a shorter sideburns wearing version of Dave (whom Kent Walton already knew about.) Usually when I see the words "Bert" "Royal" and "Steve" together on a Classic British Wrestling YouTube video I assume the missing word is going to be "Logan" - as in the MK1 South London Iron Man version (who also briefly had a tache, of the 1950s-1970s "spiv" variety - see also Jim Hussey). So seeing Bert in a technical bout was an unexpected joy for a purist like myself. Interesting stuff almost from the outset- Bert using his knee as the fulcrum for a horizontal spinout (and without knackering said joint.) Taylor using a bridge to get the angle right for unplugging a headscissor (and deftly slipping into a side headlock). Bert repeatedly undressing a Frank Gotch toehold even as it is being applied and getting a crafty back kick in on top of the Johnny Saint pulling oneself upright counter to an attempt to drive his knee into the mat. Royal takes a top wristlock on his knees so he can swivel round into a front chancery. Royal upturns a headscissor and converts it to a Boston Crab. Bert on the mat in a wristlock lunges through the standing Taylor 's legs to get a folding press on him. And finally the one required fall - a reverse waist lock rolling through into a reverse folding press. Interesting use of storyline at the end without disrupting the sportsmanship and politeness of the match, Taylor asks for an 8-round best of three falls, Bert says yes. I wonder if this happened? It wasn't on TV, but maybe they took it round the country that winter.

In the meantime - I think I posted some of this before in the post about the referee in this who was a vicar, but hee is a longer trim of Killer Ken Davies Vs Ray Taylor (dunno if he was related to Dave, Steve and Eric or not) at Granby Hall in Leicester in the mid 60s IN COLOUR!

Question - I think @JNLister might be able to help but anyone with a good collection of Powerslam or failing that a good memory of famous WWE commentary quotes might be able to help. Some time in the early 2010s (towards the end of Powerslam's life) a WWE announcer - I think it was Michael Cole but wouldn't swear to it - made on air comments about having seen old ITV bouts on YouTube and been very impressed with it. This got quoted in the quotables section of Powerslam (I think it was called They Said It I want to use the quote as a source for an edit on the Wikipedia article for Professional Wrestling in the United Kingdom but have a lot on my plate and don't fancy lugging out my stack of copies except as a last resort. If some kind soul could kindly furnish me with (1) the actual wording of the quote (2) EITHER the edition and page numbers for the quote in Powerslam OR the WWE broadcast details of the original quotation, then I would be most grateful. In the hope that someone can spare me the hassle... Cheers.

Question for @Jetlag, @Robert S and anyone else native to the Germany/Austria wrestling territory: How did EWP get set up? Was the CWA reconfigured into EWP upon Wanz and/or Wilhelm's retirement or was it just the right company that came along at the right time to fill the gap in the marketplace?

I've discussed this before on the French thread due to Orig's claim on the English commentary that Zrno's trainer was Charley Verhulst. Finlay had been pushed by Joint as a Bully heel partly to lead to his 1986 FA CAup Final tag confrontation with Big Daddy, partly to sow the seed of one of his victims Dany Collins eventually taking a title from Finlay (in 1989, too late for ITV. Yes there is plenty of mat wrestling although it's not chain sequences (check the 1982 Finlay Vs Davey Boy match for that), it's more horizontal top wristlocks down on the mat and Zrno bridging out. Finlay does get some nice legdives and well applied leglocks and toe holds from nowhere, as well as one rollout.. Finlay gets a double wristlock and Zrno lifts him in it into a fireman's carry takedown. Zrno topes and monkey climbs Finlay. Paula as much of a heat machine in Germany as back home. Here on CWA Video as on Reslo she is able to do her husband slapping faux-botch (banned on ITV.) Like how Finlay strikes a pose as Paula fans him down with the towel Olympic style. Finlay comes to the ring to Belfast by Boney M. Later during a round break Everything Counts by Depeche Mode is played. End comes when Zrno misses a cross body off the top rope and Finlay gets a face first piledriver for the pin.