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Dylan Waco

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Everything posted by Dylan Waco

  1. I'm not getting hissy. I'm asking a question that draws upon the logic you offered above. You don't have to answer it if you don't want to, but there really is no sense in dragging this thread down with name calling either.
  2. So Hogan is at worst a serious contender for the best in ring wrestler of all time and it's impossible to debate his work opposite that of say Bryan Danielson because Danielson doesn't have the big league accomplishments, et?
  3. After going through the specific head to heads I am really convinced that PG-13 are at worst serious top 20 contenders especially operating from my admittedly narrow line of thinking where I look at tag teams as units that were defined by their tag work. Even conceding to some of the Japanese tandems like Kawada/Taue and the Misawa teams I have not found twenty teams in this thread mentioned that I would take over PG-13. I can see how someone would prefer the Steiners, but even Will who has done an entire 2 hour show on the greatness of the Steiners was non-commital on the notion that they were clearly better than PG-13. I certainly don't see how they were.
  4. I liked the Hayes/Garvin Southern Boys match and I actually liked their Country Whipping Match with the RnR's even though it was horribly booked in terms of the rules. My big beef with that team is that I think Garvin did not give two fucks at that point. He really comes across as lazy and bored during a lot of the random tv I watched from that period and seemed annoyed to have to sell for people at times like his graduation to full blown Bird meant he was supposed to be a Gordy level bruiser or something.
  5. The Southern Boys were really good and all but the Young Pistols, after the heel turn, were AMAZING. One reason I can't get myself to watch much SMW Smothers is because of the face turn where he turns his back on that run and embraces his podunk roots or whatever. Not for me. You are insane. The Tracy pre-tapes begging forgiveness for falling for big city scheming are incredible. Also Smothers was incredible in the ring in SMW. The best run of his career probably.
  6. I'm watching all the SMW tv now and literally JUST watched a Scott/Steve match. They were a fine team and they had a solid run in 99 WCW but they aren't even the best Steve Armstrong team. That would be the Southern Boys who also haven't been mentioned but were a really good team
  7. Pat Tanaka is so god damned underrated. He's also a Marty Jannetty type who was always good when he would randomly show up and was always good with any partner they gave him
  8. Unfortunately there is a dearth of great Orient Express matches, at least taped. There are the Rockers matches and the New Foundation match. The Demolition match is pretty weirdly laid out if I remember right. The Hart foundation match that aired is a glorified squash. The Power and Glory match isn't nearly as cool as it sounds. The MSG Haku and Barbarian vs Orient Express match turns out to be Kato and Fuji vs Barbarian and Haku, which is a damn shame. The Six man vs Kerry/Steamboat/Bulldog is a squash. The Rockers + Virgil vs Orient Express + Fuji match isn't very good. Like with PG-13, they had a very entertaining squash with The Roadies from memory.
  9. I agree with you Dylan on most stuff, but I'm sure you didn't mean imply that Gordy and Roberts were as much a non factor in Freebird tags as Dory was in Funk brother tags... Dory was the real Robert Gibson. Everyone talks about how great Rick Morton was and kind of write off Gibson as a turnbuckle decoration for the Morton show, but a lot of my favorite RNR tags feature extensive Gibson FIP segments where he's actively a great worker throughout (like the DWBs tag from Mid South, for example) Dory is the epitome of a dude who, in that role, was ok for hot tags and not much else. Consistently the least guy in all their matches while Gibson a lot of times felt on par with Morton. I'm rambling but yeah, while i agree Hayes was great in a ton of situations, Gordy and Roberts were great workers in all of those matches, too. Unlike Dory You hit the nail on the head. Didn't mean to come across like I was shitting on Buddy and Gordy who were great wrestlers.
  10. I'm a Lucha novice, but Cerebro/Terry v. Gringo Loco/Diablo had a couple of incredible tag matches at the beginning of last year if you want to talk about great short runs. Another great short run would be the Bubba/Spike tandem which had a match with the J.T/Guido FBI that is one of the best matches in ECW history, plus very good matches with teams like the Erotic Experience and the Bad Crew among other things. Mikey/Spike were also really great and were great dance partners for both PG-13 and the CanAms (really the only team that made the CanAms work to their potential stateside). Of course Spike was a legit great FIP during that period so that helped a lot. Again I repeat that the Smothers/Guido FBI is better than most of the teams that have been mentioned in this thread. They were around for longer than people realize too. While most of their matches were merely "good" they had some weak/uninspired competition and they also had some legit great matches despite never being booked seriously. They easily have the best Eliminators match of all time almost entirely due to Tommy/Guido/Tracy
  11. I actually agree with this. I really like the Hart Foundation v. Killer Bees match from Bret's DVD set but I don't like it as much as the two or three best PG-13 v. Mikey/Spike matches, one of those USWA matches you reviewed (I have not seen the other), the match v. Dudz at HH, the RnR where they work babyface from Evansville (I think) or the better Thugz match I reviewed. And again that's just off the cuff small sampling stuff from PG-13 as I haven't watched much of the USWA stuff I have with them on it in more than a cursory way in some time. Isn't the Bulldogs best match from AJPW? I like Demolition and think they had lots of good matches but nothing I would call great off hand.
  12. I'm sorry but that's just not true. WWF ran heel in peril matches FAR more often than any other territory/wrestling company with a serious tag division. Was it a dominant theme for the entire run of the companies history? No. Was it more prevalent their than anywhere else? Yes. Worse yet a lot of the more traditional style tags with FIP segments would end at curfew with the fucking faces being saved by the bell which is just as absurd. Not true at all. Faces dominated the first eight minutes before the heel got on offense. No longer than Rock and Roll Express would dominate the Midnights or Tully and Arn. Face shine segments were drastically different in the WWF. Something like North/South v. Brisco's which was a loved match by many is so obviously HIP it can't be argued against, but not every WWF match that was HIP was like that. The point is that the faces were building heat on the heels often in WWF matches. You almost never got that impression watching the RnR's. It's not mythical. It's the reality I encountered over and over when watching shit tons of WWF over the last several years.
  13. PG-13, top 20 tag team of all time. Jamie Ice and Wolfie D, top 20 indy wrestlers in 2011. But seriously, I'm actually enjoying this thread a lot. Keep on coming and argue about the merits of tag teams. From the joshi ranks : Marine Wolves, Crush Gals, Toyota & Yamada, LCO, Oz & Kansai, Oz & Cuty, HamaKINO, Juming Bomb Angels... there are more. Joshi is tough for me because I have not watched any Joshi in years (well, I did watch Nakano/Aja Cage Match fairly recently, and I watched several matches from last year where Satomura shocked me by still being really good, but in terms of "classic" Joshi I can't remember the last time I really even thought about re-exploring). Stylistically there are things about Joshi I don't like at this point that are hard for me to overcome. of those teams Crush Gals and LCO seem like the two teams I MIGHT be willing to see over PG-13 but that would require going back and watching a lot of Joshi. I do have some Joshi at the house I HAVE to watch and may pop some in soon enough in which case this can be re-explored. On the top 20 indy wrestlers thing, and at the expense of being accused of "hedging" again by John, that's not quite what I wrote and not quite what I meant either. My point is that if I see a PG-13 or Wolfie/Jamie singles match somewhere online in 2011 I am very much inclined to watch it and give it a shot. I thought El Generico had a better year last year than either guy. Thought Paul London did too. But I would still be more likely to watch and/or seek out a match from Jamie or Wolfie than either of those guys for styllistic reasons. Hell the best individual performance I've seen in a indy match so far this year was Jamie in the Dundees v. Lawlers tag from Evansville so realistically he probably would be in my indie top 5 for 2011 at this point. Have not seen any Wolfie D this year.
  14. I'm sorry but that's just not true. WWF ran heel in peril matches FAR more often than any other territory/wrestling company with a serious tag division. Was it a dominant theme for the entire run of the companies history? No. Was it more prevalent their than anywhere else? Yes. Worse yet a lot of the more traditional style tags with FIP segments would end at curfew with the fucking faces being saved by the bell which is just as absurd.
  15. My question to Jingus would be - what wrestling trope hasn't been run into the ground at this point? Hell most effective wrestling psychology is built on consistently repeated spots and themes that have been going on for god knows how long. To me how well something is executed is what is important. I agree that even some good Southern style wrestlers can over rely on stalling/schtick (I've seen some Smothers matches on youtube from the last two years that definitely fall under this category and I LOVE Smothers). And obviously certain people are going to like certain things more than others. But I don't think you can group "every match ending with a Canadian Destroyer" in with tactics that exists primarily to build heat. The difference in degree there is so big in represents a difference in kind. Anyhow I wish I had the link for the PG-13 SAW title win from last year as it was BETTER than I expected if anything and while Loss is basically right about the peak v. peak nature of GOAT debates I think it shows them in a very strong light for a team that is clearly past their physical prime.
  16. Quality contribution here
  17. Ill get into the meat of jingus post later but i should note that ive seen several wolfie and jamie matches in the last few years that i would call very good largely due to their efforts. I doubt even now that there are20 indy guys i would rather watch. So im not buying the old, fat and lazy stuff.
  18. Funaki had a good match with Viscera last year. Really Viscera has had a lot of good singles matches. Without thinking to hard I saw a Masked Superstar v. Jerry Blackwell match a couple of months back that was awesome.
  19. I would recommend people watch the PG-13 v. Dudz match from Hardcore Heaven 97 if you want a quick look at what makes them such a good team. It is the only time I can ever recall seeing the Dudz work a match that way and while they did a good job on their end I think it is evident who was guiding them. It's also notable because they work face and the Dudz work Southern heel. Some may not like it as much as I do, but I think everyone would think it was an impressive performance.
  20. I am eager to see some USWA tv from the 1995 SMW v. USWA feud. PG-13 was excellent in that feud - arguably the stars of the whole thing. There babyface performance against the RnR's that I alluded to earlier was really fucking great stuff.
  21. Bill Eadie? Really? Eadie has had quite a few good matches.
  22. I'm aware of what I wrote John. The whole point of this thread was to see WHERE I would rate them when I actually started looking at them in relation to other teams some of which I hadn't even really thought about comparing them too. I was doubtful there were 20 teams I would find definitively better than them but I wanted to be able to compare and look at things straight up and discuss their strengths and look at them compared to other teams. Do you have anything of substance to add to the thread or are you just in here to let us know you are reading?
  23. Where did I claim PG-13 was in the top 10 greatest tag teams? I deliberately started this thread so that your thread would not be derailed any further by the way. Anyone familiar with my posts/posting over the years (i.e. pretty much everyone here) knows I was talking about in ring work and not over all as an act.
  24. In recent times one of the guys that really stands out to me is Carlito. He debuted and was pretty soon thereafter (if not immediately) thrown into a feud with Cena where it was implied that he STABBED HIM. It really looked like he was going to be a big player. It didn't take long at all for him to collapse down the card and into irrelevancy.
  25. 1. lol2. lol 3. Not sure, haven't seen enough of them but I'm doubtful. 4. Workrate = no. Overall, maybe. 5. Nope. 6. Haven't seen enough of them to properly comment on. 7. They were awesome in OVW where technical wrestling was appreciated but the WWF dropped the ball almost entirely with the team. 8. Yeah... 9. Nope. Not even close, man. 10. They had two excellent hardcore brawls with Cactus Jack outside of that, I am drawing a blank as to where their real significance lays. Sure, they had longevity as a team, had foreign tours, were in a movie, but outside of that, I wouldn't personally rank them above PG-13. I'm enjoying your write-ups Dylan, and I will provide more commentary later on today/tonight/tomorrow morning I did state that those were teams off the top of my head that I thought PG-13 were better than @Dylan Waco, who was confused over it being a troll post...Those are ten teams in my opinion whose overall work rate and credibility as a tag team is less than that of PG-13 I don't consider Demolition that much of a big draw, they were the hottest tag team in the WWF at one point, however they declined due to the additions of teams like The British Bulldog's, The Hart Foundation and, of course The Legion Of Doom. As for the Nasty Boy's, barring their Florida Championship work in the late 80's..they quickly became stale and failed to make that much of an impression in either WWF or WCW. In fact, most people know Brian Knobb's for his 'Pit-Stop' gimmick in the late 1990's, wrestling hardcore matches against 3 Count in WCW Your criteria is a lot different than mine. You seem to be putting emphasis on how over/famous teams were where I couldn't give a shit about that for the purposes of this discussion. Also most people don't know Brian Knobbs at all.
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