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JerryvonKramer

DVDVR 80s Project
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  1. JerryvonKramer

    The battle of the Vinces

    Not sure where to put this but did there ever come a time when Gorilla Monsoon would stop making his "insider baseball" references. For example, he'd usually bring up Mr Perfect's father -- just little things like that.
  2. JerryvonKramer

    The battle of the Vinces

    I read also that Vince Sr handpicked George Scott to come in.
  3. JerryvonKramer

    Eras

    While I am not taking part in GWE this time around, I have been thinking about this of late and there seem to be certain years that mark distinct transition points in the business which seem to occur every ten years or so. I'll just do two: 1972-3 marks the year in which George Scott took over the book in Mid-Atlantic and fostered the Crockett style we would all come to know and love, and we see a general ramping up of workrate from this point onwards in the NWA, Dory dropped the belt to Harley Race (who then dropped it to Brisco), but with Race a fixture in the world title picture for the rest of the 70s, there's a transition from the more straight-laced mat style to the big bumps and suplexes. Over in Japan, 1972-3 is also the year in which JWA folded and NJPW and AJPW really get going and with that the development of both Strong Style and the King's Road Style. 1983-4 is another key transition year, chiefly because this marks both the death of the territories proper (Amarillo gone, LA gone, Shire's San Francisco gone, GCW sold off, Stampede gone, Maple Leaf gone, Nick Gulas territory replaced by Watts's Mid-South, Sam Muchnick already stepped down). The scene is already set for it to be Vince vs. The World and WWF vs. JCP / WCW. Over in Japan, Jumbo takes over as Ace in AJPW around this time and over in NJPW Riki Choshu greatly shook things up by introducinig Ishin Gundan.
  4. JerryvonKramer

    2026 Ideas

    Alright done. Toodle pip.
  5. JerryvonKramer

    2026 Ideas

    It will be interesting to see where engagement comes from: there are a ton of quite dedicated fans out there but you also have to be prepared for someone like KENTA breaching the top 50. Those guys should be encouraged to take part in my view. like I said, I have zero investment in where anyone places. Looking back on 2016, the journey was a lot better than the destination. In the end it didn’t really seem to matter that Flair was #1 and Jumbo was #11. I still see guys occasionally mention that time I watched Dragon Gate and seemed to like it. The process was all. I want to try to look at guys in context as much as possible. If there was a flaw in approach before it was the tendency to look at a bunch of matches all of the same guy. I think what you’ve been doing with 1989 AJPW is great Matt since that’s closer to how I think it should be done. You’re likely learning more about the guys in that roster than if you just watched a bunch of Hansen greatest hits or whatever.
  6. JerryvonKramer

    2026 Ideas

    I mean sure, that's half the fun of it. I think maybe Martel looks kinda high in retrospect and Jumbo dropped too far. But it's a good snapshot of where everyone was. Also, the flipside of what I'm saying is that guys like Jumbo and Flair might be helped rather than hurt since -- again judging by podcasts I've been listening to recently -- the idea of them as GOATs is still gospel in many quarters. I was not trying to have a go at those guys, I like the fact they took the time to put together shows on 70s and 80s AJPW: and they seem to have a certain mystical respect for guys like Jumbo. It's just that y'know, I can't see them getting a Martel or Greg Valentine without a nudge.
  7. JerryvonKramer

    2026 Ideas

    This is a ridiculous strawman view of those who champion the old-school. Most of the older stuff discussed certainly predates when I was a fan. But there are some hard facts that are difficult to overlook when it comes to this topic: 1. Kayfabe and crowds. Smart IWC culture had an undeniable (in my view negative) impact on crowds and on the way matches were worked. 2. Impact of WWE taking over all the territories and imposing a hegemonic, bland and corporate vision onto pro wrestling at the same time as Japan was hitting what some have called a "crisis period" -- this took some years to recover from. There were bright spots, some good indies, some people who tried to do things differently. But the diversity and range of different types of workers was without doubt hurt. These aren't small things they are huge things which will forever delineate a pre- and post- era for wrestling. Of course there has been tons of awesome things since 2001, no one would deny this, but I don't think it's possible to claim or even try to impose some sort of parity because they are completely different beasts. It's not based on nostalgia, it's based on these hard and tangible facts which can't be helped. That Daniel Bryan had an awesome career in such conditions is a testament to his greatness.
  8. JerryvonKramer

    2026 Ideas

    I would say my example of challenging the received IWC wisdom on a guy like Rick Martel was the heart and soul of what projects like this were about. If the prevailing view now is to clap like a seal for that received wisdom then that's obvious decline in the discourse.
  9. JerryvonKramer

    2026 Ideas

    Where did Brody finish last time? I didn't vote for him. One of the guys I've never got. As for DiBiase did his AJPW work have a particularly big rep ever? He's just kinda Hansen's partner for a bit. DiBiase in AJPW is just more of a disappointment if anything, since he's just solid and never really does much that stands out, but then again maybe he was just fitting into the hierarchy? Instinctively, I don't see the Brody vs. Hogan comparison. Seems to me that Hogan > Brody is a no brainer, but might be interesting to think about. I'm going to be seeing a lot more guys like Brody by dint of the way I want to approach footage. For example, I want to watch all the Real World Tag Leagues in order. And then do more things like that. I have limited patience for all this kumbaya "you're awesome no matter what" bollocks, but you already knew that.
  10. JerryvonKramer

    WWE Network... It's Here

    There is that 1987 Battle Royale ...
  11. JerryvonKramer

    2026 Ideas

    The Martel example was not entirely random, and to be clear my reason for thinking Martel will drop -- possibly out of the 100 altogether -- is not because of the hipsters but rather because of the more open and decentralised nature of the poll this time. I happened to listen to a podcast called The Beginners Guide to Japanese Wrestling discussing 70s and 80s AJPW. The hosts were likely guys in their mid-20s. These were not casual fans, they were fans hardcore enough not only to host a wrestling podcast about Puro but one which saw them actively going back to watch matches from the 70s and 80s. Obviously, their main way in is through current Japan, but still this is not just an average fan. A few of the matches they watched featured Jumbo vs. Rick Martel. Some of their comments about Martel are instructive of what I'm talking about: - These matches were good because Jumbo carried Martel. - Martel was good but not great, a clear step behind the other legends they were watching. - Martel was born to play his model gimmick as a heel - Martel was a bit bland as a babyface These takes are what I'd call "unreconstructed IWC". These guys are hardcore fans but they haven't been schooled by the DVDR crew, spent hours having all their preconceptions challenged by goodhelmet and Phil Schneider and so on. Since the project will be less tied to the board and open to twitter fans, added to the fact that the general voterbase will have more younger voters, it strikes me as inevitable that the view someone like Martel was or even could be a Top 50 of all time greatest worker will slip off. Similar fates seem likely for Greg Valentine, Tito Santana, and possibly even Jerry Lawler depending on the concentration of "unreconstructed IWC" in the voter base. Maybe I'm wrong and 2026 will surprise me ...
  12. JerryvonKramer

    2026 Ideas

    It means when you talk about guys like Flair, Funk, Jumbo, etc as “boring” picks because they came high in previous polls or because you’ve been there and done it and are more excited by shiny new things.
  13. JerryvonKramer

    2026 Ideas

    Been a while since I watched 70s Jumbo (and it was usually tags, can’t recall singles ones off the top of my head outside of the Billy Robinson matches), but I’m fairly sure the template he was going for was Dory vs Jack Brisco style. It might be an interesting exercise to compare transitions in typical Dory or Brisco matches to transitions in 70s Jumbo matches. The more I think about it, the more he was essentially a US NWA-style worker who happened to be Japanese. I don’t recall any nifty matwork from him and it doesn’t seem like he picked up much on this front from Robinson.
  14. If you're anything like me, the AJPW single title scene prior to the Triple Crown is kind of a blur and I've been trying to get it clear in my head. Here's a little table I made to help see who held which title when at a glance. Now some notes: The International Title prior to 1981 wasn't actually in the company but was largely defended in South Korea by Ohki. This belt had tremendous prestige because it was the title for which Rikidōzan had defeated Lou Thesz in 1958. So the story goes, the NWA International Title was used by Thesz as an excuse to go skiing in Europe. He'd drop the NWA title before leaving, then defend the International title to pay for his vacation and then pick up the World title in a return match when he got back to the USA. When the NWA ordered Ohki to give the title back to AJPW, Dory won it in a tournament in which he faced Terry in the final (I believe this is their long 1981 match). From there, it gradually became the top title and by the time Jumbo won it in 1983 this was the number 1 belt. The PWF title was created after Baba won a series of 10 matches. It was the number 1 title for the 1970 and as you can see remained Baba's belt for most of the decade all the way until 1985. I am a little unclear about the status and prestige of the belt from 1985 to 1989 when it was chiefly held by Hansen with spells by Choshu and Tenryu. The UN title was very clearly the number 2 title, similar to the WWF IC belt or the US title in WCW. Jumbo just vacated the title in 1984 to focus on defending the International belt and DiBiase won it in a tournament defeating Tenryu in the final. The status of this title from 1985 onwards, during the period in which it was chiefly held by Tenryu is unclear to me. It's obviously the number 3 belt by this point, but was it a number 3 belt more like the TV title in JCP / WCW (i.e. a competitive and somewhat respected belt) or more like the European belt when it was established in WWF (i.e. a "nothing" belt)? Looking at the way cards were booked after 1985, Jumbo has relatively few title defences every year. In 1987, for example, he has almost exclusively tag matches for the whole year defending the belt only four times the whole year. Incidentally those title defences were: 4/2/87: Tommy Rich 4/24/87: Yatsu 7/22/87: Hansen 9/12/87: Bockwinkel This was massively reduced from the number of defences Dory had in 1981, where he seemed to treat it more like the NWA World title and took it to the USA for stints also. By 1985 we are down to just three defences in the year. PWF title meanwhile was defended 7 times in 1987. Choshu had one defence against Curt Hennig before leaving for New Japan, then Hansen won a tournament defeating Wajima in the final. Defences against: Yatsu, Tenryu, Wajima. Incidentally, Baba did not defend this belt much in certain years. For example in 1980 and 1984 he defended it only 3 times. There does not seem to be more than 7 title defences in any given year. The UN title, incidentally, was defended only twice by Tenryu that year vs. Hansen and Yatsu. This is massively down from the 8-10 times a year Jumbo would defend this belt against all comers in the early 1980s. By 1985, Tenryu is already down to just the 2-3 defences a year. So each of the belts that formed the triple crown were not defended that regularly. AJPW focused heavily on tag wrestling and tournaments, so the title matches are few and far between. Still interesting to think about the relative prestige of the titles at any particular time.
  15. JerryvonKramer

    2026 Ideas

    If it is to everyone's disappointment, then I won't take part. Simple as that. I am not bashing it though, it's just a reality given the ages of people taking part and the more de-centralised nature of the project this time round that it is going to tend towards a certain type of list. Do you think Rick Martel has a shot of finishing at 43 this time round? I strongly doubt we'll be seeing workers like that in the top 100.
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