rvd356
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Posts posted by rvd356
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So for years I totally had Misawa as my #1 favorite Japanese wrestler(and the GOAT). But a few months ago when I was laid off and started watching wrestling way too much and coming here a lot, I got way into Kobashi again. I guess I also was watching some stuff from like 06-09 NOAH and Misawa is so hurt and broke down and downright scary looking too. I had Kobashi as #1 just like a month ago in the 4 Pillars thread. I've started rewatching a lot of the stuff I hadn't see in forever or ever, and I remembered why I thought Misawa was the best, and he is by far.
Now first thing first. Can we please not be lames and devalue someone's life work because they had an accidental tragic death? I mean downgrading him for dying really?
Since I'm not a puss and all, I still love the style and the man as a Legend and artistic genius. Sure maybe they went too far and such, but hindsight and all. I really wish he would have retired from after 03.01.03 vs. Kobashi. Or definitely after the Final Kawada match in 2005. Or pretend to and build to one last Career match with whoever you want to give that push to....
See I just wrote that out of repetition of wanting to correct and change certain things in wrestling, because we enjoy that. But really Misawa was a mans man and he wanted to keep wrestling. And shit happens and he got caught. But I'm not going to discount the coolest, best wrestling in the history of the sport. I'm not going to lie, occasionally I have thought about his death when he's selling the neck(probably didn't even need to sell, that shit hurt). But seriously, you think he would want everyone being pussies and "uncomfortable"(lol). No he'd want you to love the badass stuff he did for a living.
EDIT: I really am not pointing this at anyone here in, just generally.
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That's some nerdy ass shit up there. It's kinda embarrassing that there could possibly be an elite to us DORKS. Like do people really change their opinion to go with the masses on something as ridiculous as this art form? I guess it happens in music obviously.
To user that liked Kobashi/Akiyama 98 as the GOAT for AJPW or period, THANK YOU. I like to see people real opinion because even in text it's see through, and G damn I'm tired of people saying Kobashi is bad, unless X. Now I understand being annoyed at "Fighting Spirit" and his subsequent 'Hulk Ups' because it's been copied in such a horrible streamlined way by the American independent wrestling scene for the past 15 years. But lets be real, everyone of you thought it was awesome when you first saw him no sell something, scream and knock someone out with the Lariat. He took Hogan's 'Hulkamania' gimmick and applied it to his character and Baba placed it in the All Japan Universe ®.
Anyway I'm not an expert, just a fan. I do a lot more watching than writing. SO I decided to watch 10 matches atleast from each guy I haven't seen enough of. And I'm sure glad I picked Akiyama first! I have always thought he was awesome, but have never sought him out individually like Kobashi, Misawa, KENTA etc. of course I'd seen the 12.06.96 tag and the 2004 NOAH GHC match with Kobashi but hadn't looked much beyond.
vs. Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW 02.27.00 - [ ***** ] wow how did I miss this match, and why is it not more famous? I mean I've only heard great things about it, but that is not on too many occasions. I think I liked it(and subsequently the previous encounters which I will get to) because of it being a bit simpler, and therefore more natural for me, while still having all the stuff unique to All Japan. Like there wasnt 6 half Nelson Suplexes directly on the head, and 6 tigers Suplexes off the ramp to the floor(still the best spot ever) like some of the Kobashi-Misawa matches and it wasn't overly long. The Exploder off the apron was super awesome but not directly dangerous(see dammit now I'm equating every move with worth! I hate that!), a sweet Brainbuster and a sick Exploder to finally beat him.
I'm not good at reviews obviously, but I am gonna look at a couple more of this series and other stuff of his. You know the latest match I have seen of Juns is his TC loss to Funaki and the TC match with Mutoh(bad), but it was so good to see Akiyama himself look so strong. I mean, what other great 90s wrestlers do we still have doing great shit?
He really reminded me of Daniel Bryan. I'm sure Bryan meant for that, but it's a good thing. Hey maybe he'll get fired and we can see that match?
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I didn't say that. I said it's as good, which means it's on "the level" as the other best. That level is the [ ***** ] match level, and while I think there are a lot more of those than most people, in reality its a small group.
So, Warrior-Rude from SummerSlam is the greatest match ever?He's on my list somewhere for sure. Warrior-Rude at Summerslam 89 is as good as any match, ever. Misawa, Flair, whoever.
But no, it's not the best match ever, I'm not even sure that it's the best match of 1989. Or even in WWE in 1989. Like Luger/Steamboat GAB, the Flair/Steamboat trilogy, Flair/Funk "I Quit", Tenryu/Jumbo 06.05.89, Zangiev/Hashimoto 04.24.89, Doom/Steiners Havoc, Flair & Sting/Mutoh & Funk Havoc ThunderDome, and Rockers/Brainbusters(pick one).... And hell I could go on, and everyone knows the great ones, but I mean damn just 1989 had so many great matches that were ***** or pretty close.
But Warrior v. Rude at SummerSlam 89 is one of those matches that most marks and smarts find to be a great one. I think it takes a certain kind of worker to produce such a classic. And this thread is about Warrior and why he's definitely on my "100 Greatest Wrestlers" list.
If there's one positive almost every fan can say about Warrior is that he cared immensely about his character(um, renaming yourself Warrior legally?). And 75% of the time that meant being crazy, not selling and destroying people. AND he was perfect at that which is a point in his favor. Including SummerSlam 88 where he did just this to Honky Tonk Man, which was the absolute right move. But also part of that character was having these epic battles with the big heels of his time. And I think when that time came he almost always delivered on this.
vs. Rick Rude - SummerSlam 89/90 & SNME 07.28.90
vs. Heenan Family - Survivor Series 89
vs. Andre the Giant - 10.28.89, 11.25.89
vs. Savage - 02.11.89, WM7
vs. Curt Hennig - WWF 03.19.90
vs. Sgt Slaughter - Royal Rumble 91 - I think this really delivered as an "Epic". Even though it wasn't nearly as good as say Barbarian/Bubba from earlier in the night as far as in ring work, the American superhero Warrior with the colors against the American Drill Sgt. Soldier turned Jihadist was damned entertaining. Especially when Warrior rips up the Iraqi flag and the crowd goes so crazy the camera starts shaking which always gives me goosebumps. Also I would have to look it up, but when they went back to Japan in 91(this time to SWS) these too had a fun as hell brawl all over if I remember correctly. I have only see it once though.
In fact the only times he failed to deliver in these epic encounters with big heel characters was
vs. Hollywood Hogan - Havoc 98 - Hogan sandbagged him BAD here, not all his fault.
vs. Jerry Lawler - King if the Ring 96 - I think Warrior was game, but Lawler almost always looked like garbage when they gave him a shot at being a big heel wrestler. I'll get to that when I post in the Lawler GOAT thread, but Piper, Bret, Warrior, Foley in 4 consecutive KOTR PPVs, 3 of them main events, and never did he have anything remotely good. In fact I'd say downright embarrassing and I wouldn't rate any of them above [ * ].
vs. Ted Dibiase - Tokyo Dome 04.13.90 - Yeah well first this was going against Hulk Hogan/Stan Hansen, the 2 biggest gaijin in the history of Japan, so. And Warriors style doesn't work in Japan in 1990 too well. But god damn Ted dogged it so bad here. I mean take some big bumps or something? Earn your check.
A lot of guys I will have in my 100 are unique and possibly the only wrestler like them (Also thinking Steiner, Lo Ki, Sabu, RVD, Goldberg, Mick Foley and possibly Sandman and Necro haha) and they were great in their own way.
EDIT: added Foley to the unique "One of a Kind ®" list
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He's on my list somewhere for sure. Warrior-Rude at Summerslam 89 is as good as any match, ever. Misawa, Flair, whoever.
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Oh come on using his matches against Randy Orton as the way to judge him? ALL Orton matches suck.
But this is about Triple H. For an 18,month period Triple H was one of the best in the world. From January 2000 through June 2001 he was The Game, and you can put that run up against a lot of the great 18 month runs in wrestling history. No, it's not the best, but it's a Top 20 for sure.
But go back a bit further. Triple H was a good hand in 1995-1997 including the fun Pig Pen match with Henry Godwin and a damn good match with Steve Austin @ IYH: Buried Alive. To be honest I haven't seen much of him then, but I started watching WWF & WCW full time in June 1997 and he had just won the KOTR 97. His first great feud with Foley is also where he starts to get really good. Also having Chyna as his steroid fueled female bodyguard was money, and truly unique.
vs. Mankind - Canadian Stampede - damn fun brawl - ***
vs. Mankind - Summerslam 1997 - One of my favorite 'blue bar' WWF cage matches
vs. Cactus Jack - Raw in MSG - super fun Hardcore match
Then his career really takes off with DX, and as a 9 year old mark they did piss me off, which was the point I believe. Unless they were trashing The Hart Foundation, in which case I backed them 100%.
vs. Sgt. Slaughter - IYH: DX - I still remembered Slaughter as the Iraqi Champion, and didn't trust him at all. And I loved H beating his ass.
vs. Owen Hart - WrestleMania 14 - again I didn't buy Owen as a face after trashing my country for a year, and loved when Chyna through cocaine in Sarge's eyes and nut shotted 'Nugget'.
I think DX transferring seamlessly from HBK to H, Syxx and the Outlaws the day after Mania 14 was when he became a player. The whole Nation feud got H and The Rock over so well and I can't even imagine a midcard feud doing that in 2015(well Cena as 1/2 of it doesn't really count).
vs. The Rock - Summerslam 1998 Ladder match - ****1/4 loved this match at the time. If have to watch it again but this was back when Triple H played a good babyface and it was a great end to the feud.
He blew out his knee and was out after this if I remember right. Then he had a crap match with Kane at Mania 15(everyone has bad matches with Kane, he makes Orton look like Flair) and then turned heel and started his run to the top. Including the badass new theme song, the new gear with the trunks and bulked up a bit. I stopped watching wrestling at this point and to be honest not a lot in 1999 match wise makes H's case except:
vs. Vince McMahon - Armageddon 1999 hardcore match - I'm a huge 'Vince hardcore match' fan and this was the 4th main event for him this year which is crazy for a 50+ year old executive non wrestler, but just like the cage and ladder match against Steve Austin, this match was damn fun. It's weird to have Vince as the babyface but I love his crazy brawling. I just recently watched this is why I comment on it. H probably gave Vince too much, considering H was moving into the 'Ace' status, but Vince was always portrayed as such a tough guy fighter that I always bought him. Great ending and Stephanie is what really put him over the top.
And then H moves onto his Best in the World period of his career. I guess if you hate all these matches, then maybe he doesn't make your top 100, but I love this era.
vs. Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble 2000 street fight - ***** this still holds up to this day, especially since you won't see a lot of this kind of violence anymore. I think H looked like a total badass beating Foley at his own "Game". The buildup with lovable Mankind transforming into Cactus is an all time angle and I don't think it works without someone like H on the other end.
vs. Cactus Jack - No Way Out 2000 HIAC - ***** this definitely still holds up, and is way better than this last Brock/Taker HIAC. I think the huge bumps that Foley took here are truly a part of what made HIAC great, and the first Brock/Taker HIAC was the last true great HIAC. I loved how much punishment it took to end Foleys career...wait a minute!
vs. TAKA - RAW 2000 - this is one of my top 10 favorites from H, since it is truly unique. He really gave a lot to TAKA and they had a great little Heavyweight vs. Juinor bout.
vs. The Rock - Backlash 2000 - I haven't seen this in years but I remember it being a great match but can't vouch
vs. The Rock - Judgment Day 2000 Iron Man match - literally just watched a 5 minute highlight package of this because I can't do an Iron Man right now(I still have the uncut Brock/Angle one to watch and the first 60:00 minute draw with Kobashi/Kawada on deck) but this was damn good, despite all the Sports Entertainment.
vs. Chris Benoit - No Mercy 2000 - I'm passing a lot of stuff, because I really want to look at this match again. I literally just watched it this week and it is even better now than when I first saw it. It really blows the 04 matches out of the water because Triple H is so much more fluid and lighter on his feet. He was just so much more athletic and good before he blew out the quad in 2001. They do some awesome shit including H hitting a Death Valley Driver to escape the Crossface and Benoit hitting 2 bridged Dragon Suplexes. Benoit is an animal attackin the neck and arm getting him softened up for the Crossface. Benoit was just so freaking good in his prime(which was about 10 years, but 00-01 might be peak), that I can't even fathom anyone not having him in their Top 10's for this project. But H is right there.
I'm skipping ahead a bit to 2001 so I can look at my favorite matches from this time period, and my favorite part of it. The Two Man Power Trip. Sure in retrospect turning Austin Heel was a bad choice. But watching Austin get really evil on people was crazy good. And Triple H was right there with him. Will post these soon but I'm going to watch them again.
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How can he be a favorite to watch and not be one of the Top 100's of all time? Scott is a top 20 favorite for me for sure, and I am going to rank him high.
First off, you have the 9 years as 1/2 of the Steiner Brothers. And they kicked ass and had some of the best tag matches of the 90's.
vs. Sullivan & Rotundo - Bash 1989
vs. Doom - Halloween Havoc 1989
vs. Nasty Boys - Halloween Havoc 1990(one of the best!)
War games 1991
vs. Hase & Sasaki - NJPW (Dave's MOTY, I disagree but it's awesome)
vs. Sting & Lex Luger - SB91 (***** spot fest or not! 4 most popular guys in WCW killing eachother)
vs. Izuka & Fujinami - WrestleWar 92 (brutal)
vs. Sting & Great Muta - NJPW 1992
vs. the Hart Brothers - WWE 1994 (i love this match so much, one of their best)
Now I realize that all this should go in the tag team nomination, but in all these Scott is THE guy to watch. He's so amazing for the early 90s. Yeah with these older eyes I see the problem with him not selling a damn thing but that wasn't their gimmick.
Ok the you have the reason I rank him highly: Big Poppa Pump. In 1998 he was figuring out who he was but by 1999 he starts to GET it. There's a match with Jericho from Spring Breakout 1999 where he looks like he should just run over everyone and be World Champion(he should have been in 99). He can't do all the crazy shit he did in the early 1990's but he still is amazing.
He has the cred of being an All American college wrestler at Michigan, a true D1 powerhouse. Then you have one of the most impressive and unique physiques in the history of wrestling, along with the biggest arms. And then he is truly a crazy mofo that is unpredictable and you never know when he's going to go off. By 2000 he has this all down(along with the King Arthur chainmail) and you have a superstar. He was one of the few great things WCW had in the end days that WWE just didn't have. He had a damn good match with Sting @ Stampede 2000 and Hugh Morrus @ Slamboree 2000, both for the US title. Then vs. Mike Awesome @ Bash at the Beach 2000 you get a crazy good power match.(along with Scott giving him a freakin half-Nelson suplex after the match!)
I think if 2000 Steiner had been in WWF you would have seen some truly awesome matches. But move along to mid 2000 and Steiner/Goldberg have some sick matches on Nitro and then @ Fall Brawl 2000 they have one of the best power matches of all time and Steiner looks so dominant choking out Goldbeart in th Recliner to win. His biggest win of his career. And then him and Booker have a damn good HIAC match @ the Mayhem 2000 PPV and finally Scott is World Champion.
And I think Scott as WHC for the last 6 months of WCW was one of the highlights. He has a fun match with Rey in November and just destroys everything in his path, the blueprint for Brock Lesnar. And at Starrcade 2000 Steiner/Sid is one of my guilty pleasure favorites of all time. The next PPV is a debacle with Sid breaking his leg and the mystery 4th guy in the fourway dance being Animal, but that's not his fault.
Steiner with Midajah m, the Big Gold Belt, the chainmail, th lights flashing and his siren theme song is MONEY, and it's just too bad that his leg starts to go dead. At Superbrawl Scott gets the best match out of Nash that you will see in WCW. Seriously. It's a career match and the announcers start talking about all that Nash has "meant to WCW" which is a talking point I had NEVER heard, but it's true. And then Steiner has a good brawl with DDP at Greed. And then Booker comes back, beats Scott in a 6 man tag, almost beats him in a great match on Thunder and then on the final Nitro wins the WCW title from Steiner in a damn good bout.
But that was the end of Big Poppa Pump as we knew him. You can tell in the last few months that Steiners legs are getting smaller and he did have an awful "drop foot" issue that screwed up his legs. But either way he was great from 1999-2001 and there's no way there is 100 guys that had careers better than him.
Next post I wanna talk about Scott after the Final Nitro because I think there is some quality stuff.
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This is really hard! I have 16 guys that I am trying to fit in to the Top 10 spots.
These guys are deliberately out of order, because that would kind of spoil it right?
Vader
Brock Lesnar - My favorite is the first 2 year run, heel or face. even if he just had the WWE 02-04 run, he'd still be on my top 10. But the '12-Present WWE run is the weight behind his placement. The 2 best WrestleMania main events in history: vs. Angle XIX and vs. Reigns XXXI
Kenta Kobashi - maybe best baby face ever?
The Undertaker - best gimmick ever. 96-99 Deadman is a great wrestler with that gimmick. I don't love American Badass of 00/01 but when he becomes "Big Evil" at the end of 01-03, that is honestly my favorite period of his career. And when he really molds both characters in 06 he becomes one of the best.
Ric Flair - nuff said 70's, 80's and 90's. But I watched the 01-08 WWE run live, and I think he's still a top 10 in the world untill 06.
Mitsuharu Misawa - Died for his art. I love his whole career, even if Tiger Mask 2 was kinda lame, the Dynamite Kid math in 85 was rockin. I love 1990 punk kid Misawa, especially 09.01.90 the best by far though.
Toshiaki Kawada - the more I see, the more I love. Unlike Misawa, I love many many years equally.
Steve Austin - So much goodness. His career is like 4 different guys in 1. My favorite is the heel run of 2001. Might not make the Top 10.
AJ Styles - Ive said enough on him. One of the top 5 of this century. Thank God for his NJPW run so people can respect him. I hope people give his TNA stuff a look because it's the evidence that makes his spot real.
Randy Savage - Ultimate pro. The ultimate EPIC match performer. So many classics. Only had 1 bad year in 1999-2000 and even in that there was some highlights.
Chris Benoit - Personal lives don't factor into my picks. This guy IS workrate to me. Hundreds of great matches, best Canadian wrestler of all time. Definitely Top 10.
Rey Mysterio Jr. - Best Juinor heavyweight of all times. Best high flyer. Definitely Top 10 if not Top 5.
Shawn Michaels - The Rockers stuff from AWA and WWE weighs heavily. But I love the midcard IC runs fro 92-95, as he got better and better. 96 Title run is golden. 97-98 he's one of the best of all times. And I personally love most of the 2nd career, although a real heel run with the title would have solidified him in my Top 10.
Stan Hansen - can't get enough. He's such an artist. Just recently watched Hansen/Kobashi 06.05.96 triple crown match and it's truly art. It's not the 1993 Mach in quality, but the story is just as good. Hansen is like the dad that always won the fights with his son, and Kobashi is finally 'The Man' and starts rocking Stan with closed fist punches and Hansen sells the shut out of his hurt arm. Love Stan.
Genechiro Tenryu - Like Flair, nuff said. vs. Jumbo 06.05.89 and vs. Mutoh 08.06.01 are two of my favorite matches with two totally different guys. Also Tenryu/Kawada for the vacant TC title in 2000 and Tenryu/Hogan vs. Road Warriors in 91 are a couple other favorites. I do need to see more though.
Eddie Guerrero - Pound for pound best ever? I saw Eddie/Rey Havoc 97 live, and I watched his career live from 97-05 and he's definitely Top 10. So naturally talented.
EDIT:
EDIT 2: yeah Joe doesn't belong near these guys. Unfortunately 2 great years in ROH and 2 great years in TNA don't weigh out.
Honestly the guy I need to watch more of is Jumbo Tsuruta. Because he's in my #1 Misawa match in 90 and my #1 Tenryu match in 89, but I only give those guys credit here. I just went into those matches years ago with the preface that "Jumbo is the #1 guy, the Ace" and that Tenryu was first the heir, and then Misawa became the heir when he left. He's THE guy I have to watch more of because I can see him knocking off Austin, Shawn, Randy & Tenryu atleast. The others im pretty set on. But there's always room I mean I have 100 spots.
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But yeah I'm probably just going to make my lists and not look into the threads where I could get offended. There is such a small sample size of TNA that I watch regularly(05-07, Aries 12 run, any AJ, Daniels and Hardy) but I sound like such an idiot defending it. I'm glad AJ is getting some love in Japan, and to me, the real Dream Match for 2016 is the same one I had in 2002, 2005-2007: Brock Lesnar v. AJ Styles
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Lol I just came back on here to apology if anyone read that. I've been on a lot of narcotics and have a bad case of MRSA and well life is not peachy.
And then I go and do exactly what others usually do to my tastes and shit all over someone else's. But not here, this board is very mature for how pretentious it is, which I mean as a compliment as it intrigued me orIginally.
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How fucking dumb is it to not watch some of the absolute great stuff that happened back when TNA was good, yet people will watch some fucking dogshit match from Alabama in the 60's where they lay in a headlock for 60 minutes and randomly throw "great punches!" Or whatever.
AJ Styles is one of the most exciting wrestlers of all time. The guy does everything. He sells exhaustion and any body part perfectly without being boring as shit from no movement. He isn't overly innovative to where it's annoying like Chris Sabin or some garbage like that but he comes up with something cool like The Styles Clash and hits it from every where. His punches, by the way, are awesome. In TNA. The Pele is one of the best transition moves for the match.
If you can watch his performance vs. Joe @ Turning Point 2005, vs. Paul London in ROH 03, vs. Low Ki in ROH 02, and a million others BUT the Bully Ray @ Slammiversary 2011 is I think THE best AJ performance. Sure there's the ducking insane stage dive about 25 feet *long* and 15 feet high onto Ray, and that 20 foot elbow drop off the scaffolding, but I like when he just rages out and picks the fat bastard up and power slams him over the top rope to the floor.
If you just ignore something with so much volume like TNA, how can your list even be valid?
AJ is top 5 for me.
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I was worried you were a Queens fan. Isn't Dave?I don't recall Dave following the NBA back when we talked. Certainly not as a serious fan, like Keller is of the Wolves.
On the "Queens", my girlfriend was a Kings fan in the Webber era. I remember watching Game 1 of the classic 2002 WCF with her. Lakers won 106-99, and I was loving all the fouls called on Vlade, Webber and Chistie. My girlfriend and I didn't talk the rest of the series.
I ended up watched the rest of the series with noted Lakers Fan Steve Yohe, and the series remains a sore spot between my girlfriend and me. 
Yes yes the Shaq-Kobe teams and the 3 peat, to me were the best Era of the Lakers. Shaq is like Babe Ruth, dominant character and in game and Kobe was undeniably the #1 player in the world with Jordan gone and Lebron barely in. Also I didn't see "Showtime" live so. But the Kobe, Pau, D-Fish, Bynum, Odom and yes, Sasha with the cheerleaders' headband on? That's my favorite single team.
Seriously why the fuck don't we have Chris Paul right now?
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What were those last two posts? And you writing off Dibiase because he had a great match outside of the WWF? What?
My bad I was blasted yesterday. Nah it's just that I've watched that Duggan MidSouth match before and I don't get And its ***** reputation is one of those things like Daves ***** for Richards/Elgin.
I don't want to sound down on Ted at all. He's going to be on my Top 50 and Money Inc should make my top 25 after i check them out. This another thing I need to check out with Rude to strengthen his case on my list, the Manny/Rude tag team. In fact I'm going to do some searching tonight.
Ted, afternoon was heavily involved as a player in THE biggest angle in the history of professional wrestling: The Hogan/Andre WWF title feud of 87 & 88. And he fit right in as the fourth guy in that megapowers/megabucks struggle because he owned that character right away. I'd have to look up when he really debuted, but when he had that segmant at Survivor Series 87, he already was top shelf. Wow the more I think about it the more I need to watch.
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I was worried you were a Queens fan. Isn't Dave?I've been a Lakers Fan since the early 70s. Was before Kobe, was during Kobe, and will after he goes to the glue factory.
One can appreciate and acknowledge the greatness of Kobe even while stating that the fashion in which he's played the game (and still does) annoys the fuck out of me.
It's the flaw of growing up watching the Walton Gang at UCLA, and then mature as a NBA fan watching Magic. I just prefer that type of team player rather than the "win on my terms" mentality of Kobe.
Doesn't mean that I didn't rank him in my Top 10.
And that's the analogy that I drew to Kobashi. Increasingly annoyed me as time went on, to the point that he captures a lot of what I don't like about a generation (or two) of work. But 1993 was off the charts, he was good before that, and had stuff after that I like. Have to give him credit.
Ya Magic Johnson is the best name ever outside of Gorilla Monsoon. He is the heart but Kobe in the brain of the Lakers. But tbh I traded my signed Kobe jersey for 2oz bud but I stil rock the signed Magic jersey. I don't know, im looking forward to him getting love this year.
goat, f mj
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Holy shit my big ass Rick Rude post crashed. The one time I don't use notepad. The bullets and I'll get to j d
1) Badass.
-Rude's top 15 all time for me. The fact that a cool motherfucker that I would kick it with on the road in Kevin Nash looks up to Rude as the Ultimate Cool Motherfucker is one of those insider things that sticks to you and makes you always enjoy them a lot more(or hate them more like say Abdullah's whole shoot).
-Arm wrestling champion?
-Who did he knock out with a slap?
-Summer 1990. Cuts off the mullet and instantly looks like a new star.,and it shows off the upper body a lot more. As much as I love his 1989, short haired Rude is the chaw he to a top star
ALSO those videos of him practicing boxing and telling 425? Yeah that's real shit right there. THATS a fucking challenger in a fucking CAGE match! And this fucking guy jumped OFF that big ass cage with the fist drop.
Not this fucking bullshit DEMON Kane !,Oh he's CORPORATE KANE! He TRICKED US! And Seth looking like a fuckin lame when he can smash? Bring in some high flier, Ultimo Dragon or Liger or John Morrison for a night as an exhibition for something different if you got nobody.
Sorry got sidetracked
-He fucked Jakes wife to heat up the territory. Old school.
Those are the things badass wrestlers do
2) "Winner of The Jesse The Body Award"
Fuckin beast. As someone who's other passion is bodybuilding, what he put together as an ectomorph, cycles or not, is inspiring. Goals.
3) Matchez
v. Warrior SS 89 is ****
v. Warrior SNME, WM V, SS 90 are ****+
v. Steamboat I haven't seen except RR 88
I'll post more later. But Ted has what? Some Jim Duggan match ? Who cares about that minor league shit? Ya after that I'll watch Lesnar vs Rico the hairdresser from OVW. I'll watch some Million Dollar Man matches tonight. Love the white Alt gear! Maybe that's where Seth got it. from Summerslam in England. I love that show.
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The way I look at it is that how "great" someone is, is still subjective to the voter. The Beatles could be the most acclaimed band of all time, but if I don't like their work, why should they be on my greatest bands ever list? That's just me being dishonest to myself if I put them on there just because OTHERS consider them to be great. That way of thinking doesn't work for me.
I'm mixed on this.
When I did an NBA Top 50 earlier this year, I had Kobe ranked #7. My Lakers Fans friends would tell you that I'm the biggest Kobe Hating Lakers Fan that there is. I appreciate the 5 titles he helped the team win, cutting the gap to the Celtics to 1 title (or 0 titles depending on how one counts). But there's never been a Laker player that has annoyed the fuck out of me as much as Kobe, not even that looney Billy Thompson in the 80s. But...
I can't take my personal hate for Kobe, and for the fashion in which he chose to play (rather than play the way I wanted him to), and say that he isn't a Top 50 player. It's even stronger than that: I couldn't put together a list that didn't have him in the Top 20 without basically copping to "I Know Not A Damn Thing About Hoops". I probably could explain away not having him in the Top 10, but even there I didn't think I would be honest.
Love the titles he's won us. Have enjoyed some thrilling times. Just hate him as a player/worker/performer.
But...
Looking at my list, I left off some guys who made/make other people's Top 50 such as George Gervin and Allen Iverson. Why? I largely hate pure gunners who could give a shit about their teammates and who don't really win much at all. Gervin won nothing, and had a decent chance to make a Final but he specifically choked out in a big quarter. AI did make a Final, but it was out of a shitty East that the horrible Nets won the next two years.
It's a big bias that I have, growing up hating guys like World B Free.
So...
I'm mixed about the concept.
If I were to do a ballot, someone like Kobashi would be my own personal Kobe. There are parts of him that I liked quite a bit, such as up to 1993... possible extending to May 1994. After that he increasingly annoyed me. I like Shaqsawa and Duncwada better. But it would be pretty impossible for me not to have Kobashi somewhere on the list, and likely somewhere fairly high. The annoyance that I have for Kobashi is similar to the annoyance that I have for Flair, with the slight difference that I loath putting on most any Flair match now, while I'll pop in something with Kobashi through the mid-90s fairly easy. But they both were extremely effective workers, and the stuff that annoys me often entertained the fans, they have a big body of work, yadder, yadder... Kobashi like Flair would be in the top quarter of the list.
In contrast, Toyota annoyed the fuck out of me as well. It's possible that I would draw the line on a "gunner" like her, and toss her off the list like I did with Iverson. In a sense, Toyota didn't "win" anything as the promotion started its decline with her on top, and her one trip to the "Final" (Monday Night Sensation) was set up by Aja and interpromotional matches that made it easy for Toyota.
If I didn't care for the Beatles, they'd strike me as closer to Kobe/Kobashi/Flair than Iverson/Toyota: there's just too much there, from a variety of angles if one wishes to dismiss the "quality" one, to dismiss them off a Top 100/50 list.
Ok what the. Ok I could take you bashing 2 of the top 5 best wrestlers of all time, but you cross the line with this Black Mamba hate! It's all good people hate greatness, just like the Pats, my adopted team since 01. As a SoCal kid I seriously said fuck The Raiders and switched after the "Tuck Game". They never came back to LA anyway.
What's next Tom Brady? Clayton Kershaw? Jackie Robinson? Jesus?
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Thank you I appreciate that. I will get to work on that. I just gotta call em as I see em because I struggle with the idea that in entertainment, my favorites aren't also the greatest to me. But I'm going to start looking at new stuff that's not my stuff cuz that's how I got obsessed with Patera, Takada and Hash by reading this stuff so
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Can I make one? I watch ALOT of wrestling. Around 4 hours per day. Maybe half never seen before. And I am definitely up to watching new stuff
Is there a list of up to date nominations?
Can you have multiple tag teams of one wrestler? Owen & Davey, Owen & Yoko etc?
Greatest is subjective obviously right?
And I message my life's work to OP when I'm done tweaking on this half way through Lesnar-Reigns II at Mania 32, right?
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Damn I've been reading all the results up untill the Brock-Taker conversations started, cuz I'm hopefully checking out that match tonight and I'm going to try and not spoil it.
I'm happy about Del Rio! I just watched him, Mistico and my boy T-1000 Rey Mysterio v. Morrison, Matt Hardy and Ken Kennedy last night. Usually surprise opponent matches aren't the best of the series because the Champion has to sell how un prepared he is, so almost any counters, or interesting gameplay a have to be thrown out. I jumped on the Del Rio bandwagon in 2013 when he finally turned into a great worker and a credible World Heavyweight champion. On PPV he had the 2 Big Show matches, 2 RVD matches, the awesome Ziggler match where he destroyed Dolphs head because of concussions and the John Cena WHC match at this same HIAC PPV '13.
I want New Day to smash through the Dudleyz in the predictable Tables match next month, BUT only if we can get a Bubba Ray heel turn and have him back as a singles guy like in TNA 2011-2013. That was by far the best period of his career and produced some of my favorite TNA matches with AJ & Aries. I'm not saying rip TNA Bully Ray off, but rip TNA Bully Ray off. Or even make him a face mid carder like on 2002 Raw I loved that run, if only he had gotten in 2012 shape, in 2002, he might not have gotten back stuck with Dvon. Dvon is not the "Marty Jannetty" of the team, because that is an insult to Marty who ruled.
Did Bray or Roman win?
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Please don't talk crazy just to put down Rollins. Yeah I don't think Seth is a great promo but he's decent, and he's had 3 back to back to back killer PPV title matches so. Remember he's reciting a script also. But this whole run is just to establish Seth as a top level star, they almost always make guys heel for there first big run, so that it matters when they turn face(Rock, Brock, Taker)I watched it a few weeks ago when the main event was Drew Galloway vs. Chris Masters. Match wasn't as good as their 2011 Superstars match but I thought the show as a whole was actually not that bad. The KO division still seems to be one of their better aspects and EC3 might be the best heel in wrestling right now. I still maintain that he's way better as a heel World Champion than Rollins.
Like EC3 could probably actually do well with all that TV time they keep giving Rollins, while Rollins makes me want to just change the channel so I can do anything but listen to him talk.
That said, Kevin Owens is the best heel in pro wrestling hands down. He looks like an asshole. He cheats, and sneak attacks and gets violent just for the hell of it. He does all the little things and also kicks ass in the ring. Most of all he gets cheers, and finds a way to piss off the smarts before a match is over. He rules. And Brock Lesnar is #2 only because he isn't really a heel anymore, he's a tweener
On TNA: Wow I DVR'd my first thing, which was the impact in question. I re-winded it twice thinking I missed something in the storyline but no, EC3 just filed an injunction in court and Matt Hardy just bent over and gave up the belt like a little bitch(seriously does he have warrants for dope?). There wasn't even anything attached to the lawsuit.
And then fuckin Billy Corgan shows up with that mummified skank Dixie. I had no idea he was a part of TNA, but it makes sense because it makes zero sense(TNAs mantra). Everything Dixie has been involved with on screen has brought the company down. The storyline where AJ was supposedly fucking her, which got her dipshit husband a TV role and paycheck, and made AJ Styles, the most talented wrestler in the world that they somehow had, look like a total doofus.
Speaking on Dixie also, last night I watched AJ v. Bully Ray, TNA World Title Bound for Glory 2013, Main Event match. So the biggest match of the year for TNA. Bully leads the biker gang taking over, AJ is Sting 97, the franchise of TNA, now an outsider with no contract, but still wins the "BFG Series". Now I stopped watching TNA by this point, but it's not a bad feud on paper, and AJ-Bully from 2011 is one of my favorites.
So the work is great. Stiff chops, slaps, AJs always great punches and kicks and forearms. A 450 splash off the top, through the announce table was insane and I had never seen that one. Bully pulls up the ring mat and exposes the wood which is a great original heel spot that you gotta give to Bulky. But randomly Dixie walks out, because she's somehow involved and the match breaks down into a mess. Presumably she forgot what to do and even Earl Hebner yells at her. She has no place in that spot, just like Rey Mysterios 8 year old son that fucked up his spot in the Ladder match with Eddie.
But it is her company, thats been made clear. And if I owned TNA I sure as hell would be on TV, but not as the top star for Christs sake. Shit I'd probably just be a random masked man just to get involved in my dream job. I hope it was worth pissing of AJ Styles and losing him forever. And Bully eventually, Daniels & Kazarian, Joe, Low Ki, Hernandez and yeah. They still have Bobby Roode and Austin Aries, so they could actually get me to watch it that becomes the Final match in this clusterfuck.
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Damn this is freaking impossible I got a headache thinking bout all this. Just gonna post my 5 star matches because that is hard enough.(EDIT: I changed that.),I guess my formula for the ***** match was:
Great action:
- great looking offense: strikes, dives, Slams, Suplexes, Powerbombs, Drivers & submission holds
- great looking defense: counter strikes, counter to dives(knees up, strikes), counter moves(Powerbomb > Rana), submission reversals
Greatest characters & Gimmicks:
-The Shield: dominant 3 man group that takes out 1 for at a time, awesome SWAT gear, Kings of Trios
-Brock Lesnar 1.0 (02-07) Prototype 2000's Heavyweight wrestler. Legitimate wrestler NCAA champion, black trunks & black boots, #1 athlete in business, can chain-wrestle, hit any power move, submissions, and do any high flying if needed, goes to Japan and is #1 gaijin champion immediately. Greatest rookie year ever(Mark McGwire like).
Brock Lesnar 2.0(2012-Present): All previous points, plus legitimate top fighter on the planet. Ultimate Monster heel: combo of Andre's status, draw and aura mixed with Vader's talent, offense and bumping ability.
Rey Mysterio(97,03): Ultimate Luchador baby face. Ultimate underdog baby face. Real life Superhero with amazing Superhero-like offense & defense. At Havoc 97 he rocks the 'Phantom' suit and does moves only he can and sells like a Superhero drawing the ultimate sympathy and fights the odds and prevails in the end.
And finally all my ***** I made sure had real relevance and meaning to one or both or all of their careers. Like Shield/Bryan, Kane, Ryback MADE those guys and was totally new and unique and well The Shield has been the best thing in wrestling this decade(ehhh 4 way tie with Brock's return, Punk & AJ Styles).
*****
Brock Lesnar v. Roman Reigns - WrestleMania 31
The Shield v. Evolution - Payback 14
The Shield v. The Wyatt Family - Elimination Chamber 14
Brock Lesnar v. CM Punk - Summerslam 13
The Shield v. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Ryback - TLC 12
Brock Lesnar v. John Cena - Extreme Rules 2012
CM Punk v. John Cena - Money in the Bank 07.11.11
Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker - WrestleMania 25
Kurt Angle v. Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 21
Chris Benoit v. Kurt Angle - Royal Rumble 03
Brock Lesnar v. The Undertaker - (HIAC) No Mercy 02
Hatdyz v. Dudleys v. Edge & Christian - (Ladder) WrestleMania 16
Triple H v. Cactus Jack - (HIAC) No Way Out 00
Triple H v. Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble 00
The Undertaker v. Mankind - (HIAC) King of the Ring 98
Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker - (HIAC) IYH: Badd Blood 97
Royal Rumble 1992 Match
Ultimate Warrior v. Randy Savage - WrestleMania 7
Hulk Hogan v. Ultimate Warrior- WrestleMania 6
Ultimate Warrior v. Rick Rude - Summerslam 89
Randy Savage v. Ricky Steamboat - WrestleMania 3
Kenta Kobashi v. Mitsuharu Misawa - (GHC title) NOAH 03.01.03
Keiji Mutoh v. Genechiro Tenryu - AJPW 06.08.01
Mitsuharu Misawa v. Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 01.20.97
Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa v. Holy Demon Army - AJPW 06.09.95
Kenta Kobashi v. Stan Hansen - AJPW 07.29.93
Kenta Kobashi & Kikuchi v. Can-Am Connection - AJPW 05/92
Jumbo Tsuruta v. Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW 09.01.90
Jumbo Tsuruta v. Genechiro Tenryu - AJPW 06.08.89
Bill Goldberg v. DDP - Havoc 98
Rey Mysterio v. Eddie Guerrero - Havoc 97
Ric Flair v. Big Van Vader - Starrcade 1993
Sting v. Big Van Vader - (Strap) Superbrawl III
The Steiner Bros v. Sting & Lex Luger - Superbrawl I
Ric Flair v. Ricky Steamboat - WrestleWar 89
Ric Flair v. Ricky Steamboat - Chi-Town Rumble 89
Austin Aries v. Bobby Roode - Destination X 2012
AJ Styles v. Bully Bubba Ray - (LMS) Slammiversary 2011
AJ Styles v. Samoa Joe - TNA Turning Point 05
AJ Styles v. Samoa Joe v. Christopher Daniels - Unbreakable 05
EDIT: So I decided that matches that had a bullshit DQ ending had to be ****3/4. So these were ones I removed. But these are the absolute top level ****3/4 matches, like ****3/4.99999....
Lex Luger v. Ric Flair - WrestleWar 90
Ric Flair v. Terry Funk - Clash X
Lex Luger v. Ricky Steamboat - Bash 89
Ric Flair v. Ricky Steamboat - (2/3 falls) Clash VI
Or here are some ****3/4 matches because while important they are not legendary enough. But they could be 5* based on work but I think that final 1/4* has to mean something more.
CM Punk v. Rey Mysterio - Capital Punishment 11
CM Punk v. Daniel Bryan - Over the Limit 12
Chris Benoit v. Eddie Guerrero - Armageddon 02
Chris Benoit & Angle v. Rey Mysterio & Edge - No Mercy 02
AJ Styles v. Samoa Joe - Sacrifice 05
AJ Styles v. Christopher Daniels - (iron man) Against all Odds 05
AJ Styles v. Samoa Joe v. Christopher Daniels - Against All Odds 06
AJ Styles v. Low Ki - ROH 02
AJ Styles v. Paul London - Night of Grudges 03
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The primary reason Brock has the aura he has now is that he beat Undertaker. The HHH feud really made him lose his luster because of the bad matches and Even Stephen booking, and the Undertaker win wiped the slate clean to allow him a fresh start.
As far as HHH in 2002-2003, was his win-loss record the problem? He did TV jobs in tag matches for guys like Booker T, Rob Van Dam and Kane just as he traded PPV wins with Shawn and Goldberg. Or was the problem more that he was overexposed with too much TV time and long, boring promos? He was smart and certainly presented as a Winning Winner, which at least benefitted them in the sense that he had the occasional successful program when it was promoted properly. You could argue that the Batista program was better than anything the company has done since, which was sort of the blowoff to that period of HHH's career.
I would argue that in the case of RVD and Booker, their losses were the reason they never made it past a certain level. I'm not saying RVD would have been the next top babyface who would have carried the company with a clean title win over HHH, but I do think he could have at the very least had a short, hot run. The same would be true for Booker T.
Anyway, I don't want to argue this much with a poster I like. I'll concede that it's not the only factor and that part I overstated. But I won't concede that it's the most important factor.
When are you suggesting RVD should have beat him for the title? At Unforgiven 2002 in LA? Because I was there and Trips got 3x the baby face pop for the entrances and 2x the face heat for the match. This kinda baffled me when I was there live, because RVD was still one of my favorite guys(I created this handle in 2001 after watching his Invasion match w Hardy, never saw ECW so I was amazed). Anyway Trips/RVD totally sucked and I didn't expect that, because H had just had the Shawn hardcore match at Summerslam and actually looked like "The GAME" of 2000 again and had a great little match with Flair on Raw.
I think they really fucked Rob by retiring the Hardcore title. That was so perfect for him. He actually made that belt awesome and it fit him perfectly because we could get a real RVD PPV match every month, and he just as easily was having hot opening hardcore title fights, as he was walking into main events with Austin and Angle. The Guerrero, Lesnar and Benoit IC feuds produced some great stuff but still Rob had really cooled off from 2001. And anyway, Rob DID get his chance in 2006 and he smoked it away.
As for Booker, yeah he kind of got screwed. i loved Booker so much in 1998. Either that or the 2nd half of 2000 WCW was his peak. But he did still have it in him and really brought it in 2002 and got me pumped again.
But in my mind, going with Goldberg as the top face of RAW 2003 was the right idea it was just not done up to its potential. That's the one bullshit political move that pissed me off. WCW molded and created a perfect superstar that you could plug in for the next 5 years, as a face, then bigtime heel and then face again. And unlike Hogan, Hall, Nash and Steiner who all left there peaks behind in WWF, Goldberg was in his physical (wrestling) peak when he came in. I dunno, with the WWE machine behind Berg, I think so much more could have been done.
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A good fight is one where you win or atleast don't get smashed on from my experience. Having a pro wrestling back and forth real fight is rare in real life. I'm only speaking on bar fights and highschool stuff because I am pretty much that casual UFC fan that is only interested in the big attractions, freakshows and the like. I'm kinda like that guy that gets into wrestling after years and years during Wrestlemania season if something really cool is happening. The flip side would be a huge boxing fan, Mayweather as his favorite fighter. This fan watched WWF in the early to mid 1990's when he was a kid and two favorites were Undertaker & Shawn Michaels. So he watches the Mayweather scrap on Big Show online, sees The Undertaker is in the main event Title Match and that he's a great wrestler now with "fighting skills", Shawn-Flair career match and is into the promos and that there's a ladder match with 8 guys and sees clips of how crazy they are now, when you thought HBK/Razor was the best match.(remember a time when you didn't watch for years, and how crazy stuff was when you came back???) So a casual fan gets into Mania mode and they sell him. I don't know how this quite relates, oh well.I just want to clarify that GREAT means a 10/10, a no doubt Top ___ something. Brock Lesnar is great (hell if you believe Meltzer's line about MMA = Pro Wrestling than we don't even need a conversation, he's the greatest).
Even if we pretend that shoot MMA matches are in line with worked Pro Wrestling matches, I'm not sure how the MMA stuff helps Brock. He had 8 fights. Exactly Zero of them were Fight of the Nights, let along winning a significant Fight of the Year award. Almost all of them were one sided ass kickings, including his loss to Mir (a rare one sided match when the ass kicker ends up getting caught).
They are important matches on a level because Brock was over huge. They all had a buzz... because Brock was over huge. But they weren't great fights.
An example?
Take this fight, with its ranking from the more-than-a-bit-goofy ranking on the UFC Top 100 fights dvd back in 2009:
78. UFC 76: Keith Jardine vs. Chuck Liddell
It's hardly the best fight in UFC history, and who knows if today it would be one of the Top 100 in a realistic ranking. But it's better than more than half the matches on that goofy set, and probably better than more than 2/3rds. That was a terrific, dramatic fight with a huge upset that screwed up the "booking" of the promotion.
Point: Brock never had an MMA fight remotely as good as a fight that might not be one of the Top 100.
Again, big buzz around his matches. But there never were very good due to being one sides.
If we count Brock's MMA as Wrestling, it doesn't help him as a worker. It just adds to his HOF candidacy as a Big Star.
Of course a lot of us could give a shit about MMA when it comes to a Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame.
It means even less to "work".I'm the guy Vince books Mania for, except with UFC.
The only time I have ever been Into it was the Lesnar run, when Chuck Lidell was in beast mode as champion(I live in San Luis Obispo, everybody was talking about the Iceman, and I was always like "Dean Malenko?"), and whenever Kimbo fights. I also watched a lot of the early UFCs on VHS(I still have UFC 1 and 6 on tape) because of Shamrock, Dan Severan and Tank Abbott getting me interested in seeing it. Those shows were like ECW 1995 vs. UFC now which is like a Miz match to me. Oh but you can bet your ass I'll be at the club/bar to see CM Punk hopefully kick some ass and the eventually earn a "Lesnar deal" when he returns to WWE.
He became World Heavyweight champion and beat/dominated some big fighters, drew huge buy rates and was the #1 star. I think those are the only things that should factor in his favor if MMA factors in at all. Which it shouldn't.
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These are my opinions remember, so they can't be right nor wrong.
Kobashi is my #1 by quite a bit. I know that for sure. Best baby face ever in Japan, like I can feel the crowd genuinely behind him better than Misawa, Tsuruta, Hashimoto. He's just reached greatness level far more times than the others to me. He's in a big part of my top 20 matches ever in Japan. He's in my #1 and #2 singles AJPW matches ever: vs. Misawa 01.20.97 and vs. Stan Hansen 07.??.93(you know, the one with th Lariat off the top backwards). He's in my #1 AJPW tag-team match ever w/ Kikuchi vs. Furnas & Krofatt.
But that's just me, I got into him first when I first watched Puro(02) and in 03 he took off with the big 2 year GHC Heavyweight Title run which I actually got to see somewhat as it was going on, so that by default is my favorite run of any of their careers. You of course have 03.01.03 v. Misawa and v. Akiyama 03 which are *****. Really good defense v. Suzuki and a bunch of guys I don't even think are good. Not to mention Akira Taue way past his prime in a really fun defense. And I love v. Mike Awesome defense 12.04.04, cuz fuck it i love me some Gladiator and Kobashi actually had a fun match with him. The running Awesomebomb from the ramp inside > Frog splash and the Super bomb ruled.
Akira Taue is an easy #4. Sure all four guys could have great matches against eachother in AJPW. As singles wrestlers, I think Kobashi, Kawada & Misawa were GREAT. I just want to clarify that GREAT means a 10/10, a no doubt Top ___ something. Brock Lesnar is great (hell if you believe Meltzer's line about MMA = Pro Wrestling than we don't even need a conversation, he's the greatest). Ric Flair is great. Rey Mysterio is great. Vader is great. Kobashi, Kawada, Misawa are great. To me there is a top level where the greatest of all time sit, and he is on that 2nd level. I don't like him very much at all before 1993. This is not a knock on him either because he did reach that greatness level. First off he is in by quite a margin, the greatest tag-team ever in Japan. And in my #2 and #3 best tag matches ever in Japan and probably a good portion of the top 20 if I was trying that hard. The Misawa Champion Carnival 95(I think?) match is ***** and only in their series did he step it up to those heights in singles matches. His fights vs. Kawada were always good but never that good(I would like some recommendations though because I would think they could pull *****. Some fun stuff as an old guy in NOAH.
So it really comes down to Kawada v. Misawa over the #2 spot. You gotta throw out their matches vs. eachother of course. This I could flip any day. Misawa had better matches with Kobashi, then again I haven't watched the Kobashi-Kawada 60:00 draw in years but I remember being blown away. Kawada was in the best tag team but often vs. Misawa. Kawada v. Hansen is f'n awesome while Misawa-Hansen straight sucks. Misawa sucked as Tiger Mask. Kawada vs. Tenryu in 2000 was awesome but Misawa vs. Tenryu in 2005 sucked but Tenryu aged a lot. I guess I'd go with quality over quantity and do Misawa for #2
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Yup yup I just watched that Simmons/Orton v. Dvon/Dave match and Tista murdered him with that thing! I actually love the interaction between all the class of 2002 guys, they all really lay into each other. This led me to moar Brock.You make me wanna quickly watch earlier in 2002 when for like three weeks Deacon Batista KILLED a brand new Randy Orton with that clothesline of his on Smackdown....
Brock Lesnar v. Mark Henry - Smackdown 08.??.02
I just can't get enough of Brock squash matches. This is one of the earliest cases where Brock got to throw around a fat guy/ giant and become the master of the 'power wrestler v. Giant' match. One thing I noticed was how much quicker Henry used to be. He really moved around a lot better on his feet in 2002, which is a duh I guess, but all that weight and power lifting took its toll on him by the time he opened the 'Hall of Pain'. There was just too much talent on top in the early 2000's to justify a monster heel run then though. It's too bad Mark couldn't hold the Big Gold Belt untill Mania to do the Bryan match we all wanted. Anyways Not much to this match other than Henry doing a sweet stalling vertical suplex, and I wonder why he hasn't used that on someone huge more because you know he could do it. Well I guess its like when he Military Press Slammed Vader back in 1998 which was definitely the most impressive Press of all time, but sadly Vader took a shit bump off it. Also Brock hits an absolutely beautiful Overhead Suplex on Henry who has no choice but to take a perfect bump on it. F5. Over
Brock Lesnar v. Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 11.??.02
Skipping ahead a little bit to Brock as WWE Champion. And damn that Undisputed WWE title belt was so clean. Didn't like it as much as the "winged eagle belt", but it looked classy and legitimate and then they had to go and trash it for the spinner title(which was still better than the newest version. This match is a perfect tv sprint without anyone losing and made everyone involved love ok awesome. Brock is the best heavyweight and Rey the best light heavyweight/junior in the world and if two wrestlers have ever existed that could do a "Power guy v. Little" match better, I sure haven't seen it. And this isn't even the really great one!
Rey starts by running away from Lesnar on the outside, then hides behind the ring steps and sneaks under the ring. Brock kicks over the steps, turns around and Rey comes off the top with a seated senton which drops Brock, but the monster pops back up instantly. Rey slides between his legs, jumps onto the apron and goes for another one but gets caught and this looks bad for Rey. Brock swings him into the ring post and drops his ass. Vicious. Back in Brock hits a sort of Dominator and a crazy Overhead Suplex. I could watch Brock throw cruiserweights around all day. Brock finally screwed up and misses a running shoulder into the corner, Rey hits A 619 into his gut and a couple front dropkicks to get him into the real 619 position.....h goes for it and? Freaking Ray Traylor catches him. Oh never mind, it's Big Show. Show presses him, and throws him ATLEAST 12-15 rows into the crowd. That is such an awesome fucking spot that I will never get sick of. Of course compared to these days, it would be like doing a Mass Transit spot then. Show hits a mean clothesline on the floor and goes for a table Choke slam and almost loses him, so he kinda turns it into that finisher Rikio from NOAH beat Misawa and Kobashi with(I will NEVER understand that guys monster push). I was digging in his feud at the time and still do, but hey I love all 3 guys, yes even Show. The 'Smackdown Giant' of 02-03 is my favorite Show run of his career, outside of maybe the ECW Champion "Extreme Giant" of 2006.
This whole match and segment is everything great about pro wrestling. You have the dominant powerhouse best in the world champion, the ultimate high flyer masked man, and The Giant all going at it with crazy moves that totally accentuate their strengths. Why isn't Raw in 2015 anywhere near as good as Smackdown in 02-03?
Next I'm gonna watch the 2003 full length Rey match against "The Real" Brock Lesnar, the last professional wrestling match I ever saw liv, v. Taker @ Unforgiven 02 and my all time favorite Brock squash.
John Cena
in Nominees
Posted
I got to disagree that he has been working Indy spotfests this year. He's been working with great grade A Indy talent, and doing it well. I think he just took the biggest complaint about him, his move set and just through it back in everyone that complained about its face. I was one of those people. Before this year I would have had him in my top 30, but add in 2015 and I have him at #15.
vs. Seth Rollins Summerslam, vs. Owens Elim. Chamber and vs. Cesaro 06.06.15 RAW were all so awesome and so different. Also loved the 3 Way Dance with Rollins & Brock at the Rumble. Rusev series sucked. Mania match was ok.
Basically I loved him in 2003 on Smackdown(minus the Brock Backlash match, which I think sucked despite having 2 of my favorites, the 02.06.03 SD match was much better.). Liked the Triple H Mania 22 match and the Sabu/RVD ECW feud in 2006.
Liked the HBK Mania 23 match & RAW 55-minute match in 2007. Just plain didn't like the Umaga LMS match but maybe I need to see it again. However did like the 3 way with Khali & Umaga and the Khali LMS match.
More later