Phil Lions

Step aside Ric Flair, there's a new top dog in town! Rene Ben Chemoul discussing his womanizing ways certainly wasn't on my bingo card when I started checking out a 2001 radio interview with him, but here we are. And if I'm now stuck with this info in my head, you might as well be too!

It was a mix. Sometimes you'd get shows with both heavier and lighter wrestlers on the same card while other times you'd see cases where promoters would build their shows around lighter wrestlers only. It just depended on the particular promoters and what access they had to talent. It was usually the small towns where you'd get shows exclusively with lighter wrestlers.

To figure out the "why" for the original question you first need to figure out the "when", and work backwards from there. I'd say that up until the mid 1930s there was a healthy welterweight and middleweight scene in the United States, including a number of popular stars and World champion claimants. Certainly not as popular as the heavyweights or even the light heavyweights, but popular enough to be touring the country and drawing crowds of several thousand fans for the biggest matches. And then, to the best of my knowledge, in the late 1930s is when those two weight classes largely went away. Why? I don't have the answer, but I'll throw out a theory. After the Shikat/O'Mahoney incident the business wasn't doing good in the late 1930s, which means that it was more difficult to make money as a pro wrestler. I'd imagine of all the wrestlers the welterweights and middleweights got hit the hardest financially, because even when times were good they were generally wrestling in front of smaller crowds compared to the bigger guys so now things were surely even tougher for them. And when the money goes away so do most of the smaller wrestlers, as do the promoters who promote shows based around smaller wrestlers. Then by the time wrestling got hot again with the arrival of TV, the business was more territorial than ever, especially after the formation of the NWA. Before the war you could have a welterweight/middleweight-based promotion operating in the same area as a heavyweight promotion and there was no issue, but after the war that was no longer possible (unless you tried to run as an outlaw) so that increased the barrier to entry for the smaller guys. The established promoters were doing well enough with heavyweights and light heavyweights so it's not like they needed smaller guys either. And as time went on everyone got more and more conditioned that bigger is better and voala - welterweights and middleweights never really made a big comeback in the States.

Here's a fun fact about this one. This wasn't a professional wrestling (catch) match, technically. This was an "amateur catch" match. But as you saw there was nothing amateur about it - dropkicks, flips, cheating behind the ref's back, etc. Amateur catch was such an odd, yet historically important, phenomenon in France back then. It was clearly pro guys doing pro matches, but the French amateur wrestling federation, and others, were passing off these matches as "amateur" in order to avoid taxes... until the French tax authorities caught on (thanks to a tip from Robert Lageat and company) and sued successfully for tax evasion.

Historically the non-heavyweight guys have always been the ones innovating the most in terms of moves and acrobatics. By the 1950s the lightweights/welterweights/middleweights were no longer as featured in the States, but were all over the European scene, so in that aspect it makes perfect sense that Europe would be ahead of the curve. In terms of Chemoul, it's difficult to say with certainty how innovative he really was. He comes off as very innovative compared to most of the other guys in the footage but most of the other guys featured in the footage were from the heavier classes. So it could be that the stuff that Chemoul was doing were standard fare for the lightweights, but we don't have enough footage of other lightweights to compare. Either way, based on the footage that we have, he certainly stands out in that regard and my gut feeling is that he really was one of the most innovative guys around back then. And as you said yourself, he's all over the footage. He made his pro debut in May 1948 and by 1950 he was already one of the most featured guys on TV, as was Leduc. Leduc and Chemoul were two of the guys Goldstein was pushing heavily at the time. I haven't come across any push back against this type of work. I'd imagine there must've been some, particularly by some of the older school guys, but I haven't seen any of it myself. The press always talks well of the "voltigeurs" (acrobats), which is what guys like Chemoul were labeled as back then. Speaking of innovation, another guy who caught my eye was Joachim La Barba, particularly for his top rope dropkick. A top rope dropkick in 1952. Imagine that! Here it is though: https://x.com/Phil_Lions/status/1883647945326972991 And one final note about innovating moves. Leduc was famous for his toupie (spinning top) and I can't say for sure who did it first, but in terms of footage Frank Sexton, of all people, is the earliest one we have on film doing a toupie. Although his version was slower and with less rotations: https://x.com/Phil_Lions/status/1940866938038898973 ----- @El-P Thanks for the context on bullfighting/Intervilles. @Matt D shared clips of that Invervilles match on the lake recently on Twitter.

Not available publicly. Only over at INA as it stands right now. I've shared some Kidd clips from the matches in question in this Twitter thread: https://x.com/Phil_Lions/status/1742250661205680175 Yes! Dale has been a revelation. His selling was absolutely outstanding. I shared the Leduc/Dale finish over on Twitter a while back: https://x.com/Phil_Lions/status/1926638762051698936 Great execution from both guys, but Dale's selling is what really made this finish. In the highlight footage Rene stands out to me as one of the most innovate guys of those years. For example, here's him casually busting out a Frankensteiner in 1954: https://x.com/Phil_Lions/status/1934244007971811786 And he was also more or less doing huracarranas as early as 1950, which actually may predate the invention of the move in Mexico.

All of it.

Just finished putting this together and figured I'd share it. A list of matches from Paris (1945-1965) that aired in highlight form either on French television or in French cinemas (99% of the post-1949 ones were on TV). When I say highlight form that means anywhere from a minute to seven minutes of the match. All of this footage exists. I still have a few matches left to figure out, but I'll leave them as they are for now. year.month.day (all dates are the tape dates except for the ones with "air" next to them - for those I only know the air date) 1946.1.9 Harry Brooks vs. Mano Melas 1946.4.27 Butcher Johnson vs. Martin Butch 1946.10.5 Henri Deglane vs. Francis St. Clair Gregory 1946.11.5 Charles Rigoulot vs. Bill Garnon 1946.11.15 Henri Cogan vs. Charlie Fisher 1946.12.18 Louis Loew vs. Butcher Johnson 1947.1.15 Henri Deglane vs. Yvar Martinson 1947.2.10 Henri Deglane vs. Charles Rigoulot 1947.3.3 Yvar Martinson vs. Bert Healion 1947.3.6air Butcher Johnson vs. Lew Roseby 1947.3.19 Al Cabrol vs. Phil Siki 1947.5.19 Henri Deglane vs. Yvar Martinson 1947.10.3 Henri Cogan vs. Charlie Fisher 1947.10.13 Yvar Martinson vs. Bert Assirati 1947.10.29 Andre Amerel vs. Savelian (?) 1947.11.3 Henri Deglane vs. Hans Buesing 1947.11.5 Rene Bukovac vs. Butcher Johnson 1948.1.9 Marcel Manuel vs. Jim Anderson 1948.2.2 Yvar Martinson vs. Stan Karolyi 1948.3.15 Yvar Martinson vs. Yvon Robert 1948.10.8 Louis Loew vs. Rex Gable 1948.11.8 Yvar Martinson vs. Bert Assirati 1948.12.6 Henri Deglane vs. Jim Burnett 1948.12.15 Al Cabrol vs. Big Benny 1949.1.24 Charles Rigoulot vs. Jim Burnett 1949.2.4 Al Cabrol vs. Rex Gable 1949.2.7 Charles Rigoulot vs. Bert Assirati 1949.3.7 Charles Rigoulot vs. Michael Ujevic 1949.10.19 Stan Karolyi vs. Sandy Orford 1949.10.24 Felix Miquet vs. Bert Assirati 1949.11.2 Jean Jourlin vs. Butcher Johnson 1949.11.7 Felix Miquet vs. Yvar Martinson 1949.11.21 Henri Deglane vs. Frank Valois 1949.12.5 Yvar Martinson vs. Frank Valois 1949.12.19 Felix Miquet vs. Frank Valois 1950.1.9 Frank Sexton vs. Yvar Martinson 1950.1.20or1950.11.10 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Andre Chauveau 1950.1.23 Frank Sexton vs. Henri Deglane 1950.1.27 Ray Bukovac vs. Marcel Nonest 1950.2.3 Marcel Manuel vs. Paul Leteurtrois 1950.2.10 Ray Bukovac vs. Jack Dale 1950.2.15 Butcher Johnson vs. Jef Labrosse 1950.2.17 Jean Jourlin vs. Vic Hessle 1950.2.20 Frank Sexton vs. Frank Valois 1950.2.24 Cesario Brossati vs. David Jons 1950.3.1 Al Cabrol vs. Jim Hussey 1950.3.3 Jean Jourlin vs. Vic Hessle 1950.3.10 Gilbert Leduc vs. Cab Cashford 1950.3.17 Henri Cogan vs. Henri Renault 1950.3.24 Ray Bukovac vs. Pat Curry 1950.3.24 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Johnny Peters 1950.4.28 Ray Bukovac vs. Georges Freymond 1950.4.28 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Andre Gasnier 1950.5.5 Marcel Nonest vs. Robert Joyeux 1950.5.5 Pat Curry vs. Charlie Fisher 1950.5.12 Gilbert Leduc vs. Dick Falls 1950.5.12 Henri Cogan vs. Kid Pittman 1950.5.12 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Henri Moreau 1950.5.19 Ray Bukovac vs. Marcel Nonest 1950.5.19 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Andre Coquard 1950.5.28air Guy Robin vs. Robert Joyeux 1950.6.28 Stan Karolyi vs. Big Benny 1950.9.23air Marcel Manuel vs. ? 1950.9.24 Georges Huard vs. Felix Frey 1950.9.24 Henri Deglane vs. Al Cabrol 1950.10.6 Mike Marino vs. Marcel Manuel 1950.10.13 Cesario Brossati vs. Mike Mazurki (not the original) 1950.10.13 Georges Freymond vs. Rex Gable 1950.10.20 Andre Chauveau vs. Gilbert Naudin 1950.10.20 Gilbert Leduc vs. Bill Hunter 1950.10.20 Vic Hessle vs. Jean Jourlin 1950.10.23 Frank Valois vs. Rene Florent 1950.10.27 Guy Robin vs. Guy Laroche 1950.10.29 Charles Rigoulot vs. Jack Pye 1950.11.10 Gilbert Leduc vs. Lee Stent 1950.11.20 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Guy Robin 1950.11.20 Yvar Martinson vs. Frank Valois 1950.11.24 Gilbert Leduc vs. Dick Falls 1950.12.4 Charles Rigoulot vs. Frank Valois 1950.12.4 Eugenio Gonzalez vs. Henri Bury 1950.12.15 Jean Jourlin vs. Jacques Ducrez 1950.12.18 Felix Miquet vs. Eugenio Gonzalez 1950air Jean Jourlin vs. ? 1950air Rene Ben Chemoul vs. ? 1951.1.2 Maurice Heros vs. Michel Gonthier 1951.1.5 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Guy Laroche 1951.1.8 Frank Sexton vs. Yvar Martinson 1951.1.12 Felix Lamban vs. Vic Hessle 1951.1.15 Eugenio Gonzalez vs. Frank Valois 1951.1.19 Claude Montourcy vs. Tommy Mann 1951.1.22 Frank Sexton vs. Felix Miquet 1951.1.22 Mickey Gold vs. Jean Jourlin 1951.1.26 Bolo Hakawa vs. Lou Rudelle 1951.1.26 Gilbert Leduc vs. Red Harrison 1951.2.2 Bolo Hakawa vs. Jean Jourlin 1951.2.16 Marcel Manuel vs. Pierre Boss 1951.2.16 Vic Hessle vs. Georges Freymond 1951.2.19 Felix Miquet vs. Yvar Martinson 1951.2.19 Yvar Martinson vs. Felix Miquet 1951.2.23 Bolo Hakawa vs. Marcel Manuel 1951.3.9 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Harry Fields 1951.3.16 Bolo Hakawa vs. Deo Crasti 1951.3.25air Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Harris (?) 1951.3.30 Vic Hessle vs. Jack LaRue 1951.4.6 Gilbert Leduc vs. Jacky Williams 1951.4.6 Pat Curry vs. Cesario Brossati 1951.4.14 Pat Curry vs. Guy Biados 1951.4.20 Guy Laroche vs. Kid Dickson 1951.4.25 Georges Freymond vs. Milo Popocopolis 1951.4.27 Gilbert Leduc vs. Marcel Manuel 1951.5.18 Marcel Manuel vs. John Swenski 1951.5.18 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Harry Fields 1951.5.25 Bolo Hakawa vs. Deo Crasti 1951.5.25 Claude Montourcy vs. Andre Gasnier 1951.9.21 Bolo Hakawa vs. Jack Dale 1951.9.21 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Jack Cunningham 1951.9.28 Roger Guettier vs. Gilles Wacklis 1951.10.5 Guy Laroche vs. Robert le Boulch 1951.10.5 Vic Hessle vs. Deo Crasti 1951.10.11 Robert Charron vs. Jean Casi 1951.10.15 Primo Carnera vs. Frank Valois 1951.10.17 Bolo Hakawa vs. Cesario Brossati 1951.10.17 Michel Chaisne vs. Nick van Dyck 1951.10.19 Gilbert Leduc vs. Marcel Manuel 1951.10.29 Primo Carnera vs. Felix Miquet 1951.11.5 Yvar Martinson vs. Adolf Porizek 1951.11.8 Andre Chauveau vs. Felix Frey 1951.11.9 Felix Lamban vs. Jacques Ducrez 1951.11.16 Guy Laroche vs. Jorge Calvo 1951.11.23 Andre Chauveau vs. Ray Belzic 1952.1.7 Felix Miquet vs. Larry Moquin 1952.1.11 Jules Delmee vs. Albert Albisson 1952.1.18 Guy Laroche vs. Guy Robin 1952.2.4 Frank Sexton vs. Eugenio Gonzalez 1952.2.29 Claude Montourcy vs. Pierre Boss 1952.2.29 Eric Husberg vs. Ray Belzic 1952.3.6 Robert Charron vs. Robert Gastel 1952.4.28 Bolo Hakawa vs. Edmond Liehn 1952.5.12 Frank Sexton vs. Primo Carnera 1952.5.23 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Cliff Taylor 1952.6.25air Deo Crasti vs. Ray Munsten (?) 1952.9.21 Louis Thierry vs. Antonio Salinas 1952.9.26 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Jim Londos (not the original) 1952.10.10 Bolo Hakawa vs. Tony Mancelli 1952.10.17 Guy Robin vs. Georges Huard 1952.10.17 Marcel Manuel vs. Black Kwango 1952.10.24 George Kidd vs. Guy Laroche 1952.10.26 Joachim La Barba vs. Rene Bouchoucha 1952.11.7 George Kidd vs. Rene Ben Chemoul 1952.11.10 Karl von Schober vs. Timothy Geohagen 1952.11.10 Roger Ruaux vs. Edmond Liehn 1952.11.24 Francois Miquet vs. Timothy Geohagen 1952.11.24 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Cliff Taylor 1952.11.30 Robert Charron vs. Robert Gastel 1952.11.30 Al Cabrol vs. Lino Di Santo 1952.11.30or1952.1.20 Max Renaud (Roger Delaporte) vs. Henri Viez 1952.12.8 Bolo Hakawa vs. Deo Crasti 1952.12.8 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Jack Dale 1952.12.19 Gilbert Leduc vs. Marcel Manuel 1953.1.4air Guy Laroche vs. Guy Robin 1953.1.9 Gaby Calderon vs. Gilles Wacklis 1953.1.11 Jim Oliver vs. Pat Curry 1953.1.17 Suni War Cloud vs. Karl von Schober 1953.1.30 Albert Falaux vs. Guy Robin 1953.2.13 Jim Oliver vs. Tony Mancelli 1953.2.13 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Nick van Dyck 1953.2.27 Charlie Fisher vs. Marcel Manuel 1953.2.27 Gilbert Leduc vs. Jim Oliver 1953.3.7 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Jack Quesick 1953.3.9 Francois Miquet vs. Suni War Cloud 1953.3.20 Jim Oliver vs. Vic Hessle 1953.3.20 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Dick Falls 1953.3.27 Felix Lamban vs. Bolo Hakawa 1953.4.12air Ray Belzic vs. Crosnier (?) 1953.4.17 George Kidd vs. Andre Chauveau 1953.4.17 Jean Jourlin vs. Charlie Fisher 1953.5.15 Bolo Hakawa vs. Pat Curry 1953.5.15 Gilbert Leduc vs. Jack Dale 1953.5.15 Rene Asselin vs. Roland Deconninck 1953.10.30 Roger Delaporte vs. Roger Laroche 1953.11.23 Robert Duranton vs. Charlie Green 1953.11.29 Stan Karolyi vs. Mohamed Djaber 1953.12.13 King Kong Taverne vs. Pat Curry 1953.12.13 Laurent Dauthuille vs. Paul Debusne 1953.12.13air Hoyos vs. Bosson 1954.1.3air Andre Poulain vs. Jean Casi 1954.1.17 Al Cabrol vs. Pat Curry 1954.1.17 Felix Miquet vs. King Kong Taverne 1954.1.24 Stan Karolyi vs. Pat Curry 1954.1.31 Laurent Dauthuille vs. Paul Villars 1954.2.14 Stan Karolyi vs. Lino Di Santo 1954.2.14air Lino Di Santo vs. Mohamed Djaber 1954.2.15 Frank Sexton vs. Hermann Reiss 1954.3.7 Al Cabrol vs. King Kong Taverne 1954.3.21 Laurent Dauthuille vs. Andre Chauveau 1954.3.21 Pat Curry vs. Liano Pellacani 1954.3.31 Laurent Dauthuille vs. Andre Chauveau 1954.4.16 Don Beitelman vs. Vic Hessle 1954.4.16 Guy Laroche vs. Peter Jones 1954.4.30 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Tommy Mann 1954.4.30 Robert Gastel vs. Buddy Jackson 1954.5.14 Gilbert Leduc vs. Robert Charron 1954.5.14 Roger Delaporte vs. Joachim La Barba 1954.5.21 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Claude Montourcy 1954.5.21 Roger Laroche vs. Guy Robin 1954.6.20 Lino Di Santo vs. Pat Curry 1954.9.24 Michel Chaisne vs. Jack Dale 1954.9.24 Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Jim Lewis 1954.10.17 Al Cabrol vs. Adolf Kaiser 1954.11.1 Francois Miquet & Felix Miquet vs. Eddie Brush & Jack Wentworth 1954.11.1 Mario Lotario vs. Leon Minissini 1954.11.15 Francois Miquet & Yvar Martinson vs. Eddie Brush & Jack Wentworth 1954.11.26 Felix Lamban vs. Cowboy Cassidy 1954.12.3 King Badu vs. Gaby Dumas 1954.12.3 Roger Delaporte vs. Eddy Wiecz 1954.12.13 Axel Cadier vs. Roger Guettier 1954.12.13 Francois Miquet & The Great Zorro vs. Eddie Brush & Jack Wentworth 1954.12.20 Robert Charron vs. Laurent Dauthuille 1955.1.10 Felix Miquet & Francois Miquet vs. Frank Valois & Larry Moquin 1955.2.9air Lino Di Santo vs. Jacques van Dooren 1955.2.20air Roger Delaporte vs. Eddy Koparanian 1955.2.27air Jean Rabut vs. Catourcy (?) 1955.3.20air Vic Hessle vs. Roger Guettier 1955.10.31 Edy Wiecz & Felix Miquet vs. Frank Valois & Legs Wilson 1956.1.24 Sky Low Low & La Panthere Noire vs. Lord Clayton Littlebrook & Tito Infante 1956.2.15air Jim Oliver vs. Bill Howes 1959.2.2 L'Ange Blanc vs. Roger Delaporte 1959.5.4 L'Ange Blanc vs. L'Homme Masque 1961.3.13 L'Ange Blanc vs. L'Homme Masque 1961.11.5 Jack de Lasartesse & Hermann Iffland vs. Horst Hoffman & Micha Nador 1963.2.6air Jack de Lasartesse vs. ? 1963.5.7air Gilbert Leduc & Jacky Corn vs. Kamikaze I & Kamikaze II 1963.10.13 L'Ange Blanc vs. Conde Maximiliano 1965.3.29 Eddy Wiecz vs. The Great Togo 1965.11.29 Eddy Wiecz, Warnia de Zarzecki & Josef Zaranoff vs. Andre Bollet, Rudi Saturski & Harry Wenzel Also, a fun fact that I uncovered only recently. In 1943 the Germans were briefly running a television network out of Paris and at the end of November 1943 a pair of exhibition matches aired on the network. The matches took place at the Magic-City studio. Seems like they aired only highlights, or at least the existing footage is only about three minutes long. This German-run network had a very, very limited reach, but technically this would be the first (known) time that pro wrestling aired on TV in France. P.S. If you pay close attention to the list of matches above, you might also spot an extra interesting tidbit in there - the alias under which one of French catch's biggest stars started his career. Little known fact. 🙂

They absolutely had bullfighting in France, and in fact it is still happening to this day in some parts of Southern France. There used to be bullrings for 10,000+ people such as Arenes du Bouscat in Bordeaux and Arenes du Prado in Marseille where some of the biggest bullfighting events would take place. There's also the large Amphitheatre of Nimes which hosts bullfighting even now. All three arenas that I mentioned above have also hosted of pro wrestling cards over the decades.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I wouldn't have been of that much use then so you have nothing to regret. I mean, I knew stuff then too, but it was only within the last year or so that I dug in really deep into the history of French catch and its various personalities. The information was always out there, scattered all over the place, but I just hadn't worked on gathering it and systematizing it so that it becomes useful. Still a work in progress.

Not his last televised match, nor did he retire that year (cagematch has the wrong year). His last televised match that we have, although it's not complete, is Gilbert Leduc & Walter Bordes vs. Paco Ramirez & Daniel Boucard 7/25/77. And as far as retirement goes, I can't confirm the exact year, but it was either 1982 or shortly thereafter. The latest date I have for him is 5/30/82 as it stands.

Yes, that's Mitsui "Kamikaze" Dozan (Modesto Aledo).

Same! Could be some sort of a mask. Or some super elaborate face prosthetic. Hard to say.

It's Aledo. He was tubbier in his later years. Plus, and more importantly, Aledo being Dozan is also referenced in the archives of the French catch historian Michel Bezy (who was working for the same promotion as Dozan back then).

Thanks for pointing this one out, @David Mantell. I had somehow missed it in my latest sweep of the archive. Just looked it up. January 2, 1966: Marcel Manneveau & Claude Gessat vs. Remy Bayle & Dan Aubriot This is missing from Bob's video of the match, but the segment starts with Laurent Couderc (Roger Couderc's son) introducing his father. Roger takes over from there, introduces the wrestlers and does the commentary. And indeed, as @ohtani's jacket said, this aired as part of "Télé dimanche". That particular episode of the show was a total of 4 hours and 40 minutes so they had some time to fill, to say the least! And speaking of time, I now realize why I had missed this one. I hadn't noticed this before, but INA, apparently, splits some of the longer videos into parts, and only the first part shows up in the search so if you want to see the other parts you have to manually switch to them from a dropdown menu above the video, which means... there might be some other stuff that I've missed because of this. I doubt it will be much, but there might be something there. I'll need to take a closer look.