David Mantell

@Phil LionsQuestion: Back in the 30s when Jim Londos was doing big stadium show NWAssociation title defences in Athens, was it called Kats (Catch) or Palaistikos (wrestling)? If the latter, at what point did the Greek scene start calling itself Kats?

I think James Mason vs Dean Allmark should have been the "World of Sport -The Next Generation" match at Universal Uproar @ Coventry SkyDome November 2005, instead of Comedy Colt Cabana Vs Nigel McGuiness (no disrespect to Nigel whatsoever.) This is them eight years later

Here's some Andre Drapp working in America in the 50s. by the way..

Okay, here's the other bout I promised you to make up numbers as I was expecting two bouts again. The commentator actually says Dula was born in Guadalupe like Mammouth Siki but came to the US and was a successful bodybuilder. I think the leopardskin trunks have more to do with the bodybuilding than African heritage - see also the not remotely African Tarzan Johnny Wilson. Talking of America, Andre Drapp also had a career Across The Pond so he knows how to work with American power wrestlers. Much of the first few minutes of this revolves around an armlock. Control switches back and forth, they throw each other quite a bit but the armlock remains. Dula blocks a lot of Drapp's classic French counters - he throws off Drapp's headscissors takedown counter to armbar, he just plain fails to provide the support for a reverse snapmare counter to a standing back hammerlock and just drops Drapp. Dula being American doesn't really do counters much so Drapp has to do all the switching from hold to hold. The crowd feel a little restless with this. Drapp stops them from totally turning on the bout with the occasional slam or throw or other big move that gets a pop from La Publique. Dula gets a bit of heat with a triangular sleeper (a la Cobra Clutch/ Million Dollar Dream) which neither L'Arbitre nor La Publique like the look of so the former breaks it up about 3 times and Dula keeps reapplying until he gets the message - I'm surprised he didn't get an Avertisement. He does get one a bit later when he twice tries to choke Drapp on the ropes and L'Arbitre has to physically drag him off. Drapp then gets an Avertisement of his own for cornering Dula and battering him with illegal punches including a nasty looking kidney punch. They carry on brawling (with only the odd Drapp dropkick - Drappkick? - to elevate it above a street brawl, with more fouls, until Dula is ejected from the ring and Drapp works to keep him out before snapmaring him in. The match goes back to how the early stages went - with the odd foul like a Dula hairpull. Drapp gets a double rear arms which Dula sells by screaming like a wounded animal - what if Drapp had applied the full surfboard? Somebody's taxi arrives and the MC announces it to the crowd and the millions at home. Someone else decides to pay heel Dula a prime! It carries on this way until Drapp has Dula trapped in the ropes. L'Arbitre tries to pull him off but Drapp - le Bon- shoves him to the mat and earns himself a Deuxieme Et Derniere Avertisement. He is urinated and so are the crowd. Not to be outdone, Dula stomps Drapp in the corner and gets a Deuxieme Et Derniere Avertisement of his own. Drapp gets some bulldogs on Dula, gets an Indian Deathlock on him and threats him with fouls in the hold. Dula gets an aeroplane spin on Drapp who.in a rare bits of science barely three minutes from the end of the clip and the MC calling two minutes to curfew.- bridges up while clamping an over the shoulder rear chancery on Dula. It goes into the ropes repeatedly with the ref pulling them out.Dula falls out of the ring. One fan can be heard shouting for a DQ. Time goes but Dula still charges and Drapp sidesteps him. It's a draw Dula makes one last grasp at heat, strutting around raising his hand claiming victory. I know OJ likes his brawls so I can understand why he enjoyed this bout. Personally I thought it was a cross between an 80s WWF match and one of those 90s CWA tournament matches with one or two Americans involved working a very American match. With one guy an actual American and the other having spent a lot of time across the Pond, perhaps that's not surprising.

As I said, these are very different Samourai from that other gymnastics, supple and somewhat camp Samourai who stole the show in tag matches alongside Pierre Payne and Der Henker (Remy Bayle). They do have the bowing gesture but they are quite sturdily-built, for power, not gymnastics. They also sell very well which is great when you're got an eager young thing like Mercier in the ring. Rather like the Power Rangers gimmick in 1995 UK, they come in all colours- we see a yellow one and green one here but I guess there are also a red and a blue. They could be similarly popular with kids. They are a bit of a missing link between early 70s masked teams like Kamikaze 1&2, Der Henker & Le (original) Samourai and les Falcons d'Or (who reappeared around this time and would do so again on New Catch) on the one hand and on the other hand the more outlandish masked teams still to come in the mid 80s like Les Piranhas and Les Manuals. Marc Mercier steals the show with dozens of fast paced high flying moves. I would LOVE to have seen him face Danny Collins a few years later. Maybe they did. Jean Corne can also fly and be as "souple" and "gynastique" as the kid with whom he teams. He seems to be showing that he can keep up with the young 'un which he can, although maybe with a knot or two less speed. Both of them came to Britain and were on ITV, Mercier in 1988 failing to beat Marty Jones, Corne a decade earlier losing the European Welterweight title to Dynamite Kid. Saulnier, who could once flutter around just as well as Mercier does do some of his Heel ref stuff but OJ will be relieved to hear it doesn't take over the entire bout. Early on when Les Bons go down a fall, he is unsympathetic to Corne's groggy battered state as he and Mercier haul the elder Bon back to his corner. Later on he pretty much ignores when Les Samourai detatch their corner post cover and smash Les Bons into it. But when first Marc then Jean scored their respective equalising and deciding falls, Saulnier correctly counted their shoulders down and there were no complaints from Les Bons nor La Publique. Good vehicle for young Mercier, having the torch passed to him by one of the great old good guys of French Catch. An athletic if not cerebral tag match (hence the lack of blow by blow coverage, I have dealt with it by subject area instead.) but if you want thinking fan's Marc, see the bout with Sanniez.

I was away from home last night so I'm still catching up on stuff (including sleep as I never went to bed) but will do a review of this one and another bout to make up numbers. Unfortunately, clearly neither of Les Samourai are the brilliant Le Samourai of the early/mid 70s, these are two much heavier guys. Bad news for OJ-if you don't like heel referees, it's the king of the French heel refs Michel Saulnier working this one - and it was Marc's dad Guy Mercier who started doing that routine with Saulnier in the late 70s. Still looking forward to that 1986 midget match mentioned aboveeven if only so we can have some 1986 footage to plug that particular gap. Also it would be nice to have that 1987 Flesh/Zefy Vs Jessy/Richard match in its original context and possibly unedited (I think material has been cropped from the existing online versions.). Any clues on that one?

Yes, it's going to come down to either a commercial release or else a TWC type deal to bulk-liberate footage.

Yes, Switzerland did become CWA overspill territory. Until Catch Up on RTL in 1989 (mostly WCW with some CWA thrown in) and until shows like Reslo and New Catch started splicing in CWA footage (or in Reslo's case getting an S4C outside broadcast unit to take the North Sea ferry to the tournaments to film their own footage) Germany/Austria did not have its own Wrestling TV per se - instead they went for the Home Video market, selling tapes ranging in quality from broadcast grade professional multicam OB unit productions of Otto Wanz's CWA World title defences available from high street rental stores down to cheapo single handheld camcorder efforts sold via the merch table. Apparently the "Killer" Inoki 1978 tour was shot by the Japanese promoters whose camera crews accompanied him to Europe. The legendary Roland Bock match was shot on VT and we have the entire thing on YouTube A couple of earlier bouts including Lasartesse were shot on film and we just have snipers in focus on YT.

They had shows but Switzerland was never its own territory much less its own wrestling culture or wrestling style. I'm sure they had shows in Monaco too but it was just another stop on the French house show circuit.

Yes, I posted four of those seven just above. Two of the other three are also about the French scene - a women's match plus interview with one combatant similar in character to TV items Mitzi Mueller would do in the UK in the 70s plus a feature on a Paris theatre director who had to crawl to Delaporte to use the Elysée Montmartre for his productions after he let May 68 students use his own theatre and they trashed it. A snippet of a tag match involving Rene Ben Chemoul and Robert Duranton (with Firmin being thrown over the ropes) and some good contextual shots of Elysée Montmartre helpful for visualising how TV Catch bouts looked in the flesh. The one non French feature being a trawl through Hamburg's red light district where among the sex shows etc they came across a womens'mud wrestling show. ********** It seems to me that the underlying point is that all of these stations are in French speaking enclaves just outside France itself - Monaco, Luxembourg, Romandy - and probably much of their viewership was across the border in France itself so I would suggest part of these stations' reason for existence was to compete with French national TV. With France's then two national channels having pretty successful Catch coverage -a hit show indeed- and since (O)RTF could not copyright the concept of French Catch or the French scene, it is quite natural that they should produce their own wrestling shows.

I see something other than French Catch Tuesday was posted today. Is it a week off this week?

With Britain 1955-1969 we've had more joy with private film collectors (viz Clay Thompson Vs Tony StClair) than with the official Granada TV Archive. (And I bet they've got all the Granada Cinemas films of Paul Lincoln shows too, which would be like having a 60s version of Reslo or Screensport. And again consider how we do have that Wild Man Of Borneo match. From a private collector.) Perhaps the same is true of Television Suisse Romandy and there are editions laying around in various old boys' sheds and attics across Europe. Interesting also how the French language service seems to be the only Swiss TV channel to do wrestling - broadcasting it to the language group whose state broadcaster already covers the sport.

I'd vote James Mason or Dean Allmark over Zack Sabre Jr anyway.

I'm not saying they didn't have shows, I'm saying it wouldn't have had its own scene.

It's of relevance: (1) in order to work out what might have happened to those 1975 TF1 bouts (2) to identify which bouts October 1967-December 1974 were on Channel 2, therefore in colour, therefore potential candidates for chroma dot recovery processing to restore them to (authentic) colour some day.

Benn watching this. Very good. Interviews with Delaporte, Andre Bollet (showing his paintings), Vassilios Montopolous with Mrs Montopolous and their son and even footage of Peter Maivia. Also Rene "Jack" de Lataserre who says that there was no wrestling scene in Switzerland so he had to go to Germany to get his start) They've also got a version of this on their site. (Which explains why Swiss TV did the below docu.) Plus there are a couple of pieces on there. This one from 1960- it includes Lataserre tagging with Robert Duranton (complete with Firmin) and Duranton in fine form giving an interview in front of a bar crowd. There's a fault near the end but if you can get past it there's a bit about the melancholy beauty of a ring after the show (!): https://www.rts.ch/archives/1960/video/un-match-de-catch-26385496.html And this one from 1968 - This is a bunch of film inserts for a live magazine show called Carrefour (Crossroads - no not the old British soap opera in a Birmingham motel!). The wrestling clip is near the end and does have audio unlike some of the earlier film. Vassilios Montopolous and -I think- Jean Corner- are training in a ring in Geneva when two blokes come out, stop them and start talking about their aesthetic qualities in front of them. They then try the same trick ona young Andre Rousimoff who sorts them out by picking one of them up and giving him a scare! https://www.rts.ch/archives/1968/video/carrefour-10-10-68-26184882.html

This was RTS1's name up until 1997. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTS_1_(Swiss_TV_channel)

or else they just did a whole run of shows with those two bouts and the June one got filmed and the August 21st one is that poster. Again. presumably because it was on the still black and white, still VHF, still 819 line TF1 ****** Any info on that March 20, 1976 broadcast I dragged up? (Montreal Vs Viracocha/ Roca & Hassouni Vs Sanniez & Caclard) Was it indeed TF1? If so, and if it was a test colour recording, it could be another unwiped tape that found its way to the INA like the Jan 1969 one.

In which case August 21st was just a house show where they put on rematches of both TV bouts?

Trios until relatively recently was an exclusively Lucha term. I've no idea if the CIC in Spain even held six man tags but they called tag matches Catch a Quatro, a literal translation of the French Catch A Quatre so I expect they would have used the term Catch A Seis. "Les Bons et Les Mechants" is also a kayfabe term, idiomatically "The Goodies and The Baddies"

Four of them,all in the late 60s on the RTS show.

Actually the other bout advertised on the June 28 TV clipping - Zarak Vs Mike DeByser is also on that bill. I don't recall ho I got hold of that 1980 date (possibly that's what Plantin said it was) but August 14th was a Thursday in BOTH 1975 AND 1980. If 1975 is actually correct and the June 28th date is correct for the TV broadcasts, maybe rematches of the TV bouts were doing the rounds on the house show circuit.

Another Johnny Saint match from France (against the same opponents Michel Falempin)

(@ohtani's jacket there is 8mm colour fancam of Hell's Angels Vs Dennisons and I've posted it to the British thread long ago. I can bump it up if you like) We arrived at the Elysee Montmartre and get a potted history of its roots as a dancehall. Roger Delaporte who owned the place is in the front row. First off we get a few minutes of the end of Monsieur Montreal Vs Inca Viracocha. In the 1960s Montreal was a French version of Tarzan Johnny Wilson, same sort of handsome muscleman. Apparently Montreal 's real name is Marcel Cherot and Monsieur Montreal is an old bodybuilding title he won. It's the last few mins of a strength match. Sanniez gets cheered while Caclard (or Calgar according to the INA official YT) gets booed, like the split reaction for Savage and Elizabeth in the mid 80s. Caclard has a similar crewcut/goatee look to heel Bernie Wright in 1985 Germany. He and Sanniez can do all the characteristics French "Vaultigeur" stuff as well as Les Bons. Things really speed up when Khader is tagged in against Sanniez. Sanniez makes no attempt to tone things down so as not to upstage Les Bons - in many respects he is still a Bon at this point and he and Caclard are a Pareja Incredible. The first time Caclard tries to reverse snapmares himself out of a Hassouni hammerlock, Khader just releases the hold and lets him crash but he pulls off the counter a few minutes later. Roca can do the Scisseaux Volees counter to armbars. So far no sin of the back somersault response to a top wristlock. Les Mechants double get nastier, both of them including Sanniez stomping Rocas and Hassouni dropkicking the pair of them out the ring, one foot each. Caclard seems to be the nastier of the two. Roca's gets a surfboard on Sanniez, the announcer calls it "un Pippon.". Les Bons double team Sanniez in their corner and even try tying the tag rope to his foot but he pulls out of it. The heels eventually strike a hot tag inasmuch as heels can. Hassouni still dominates Caclard but Caclard fight back better. Rocas gets the opener on Sanniez with a sunset flip despite Caclard's attempt at interference. Les Mechants get an extended period of dominance over Rocas with Sanniez stinging away with repeated dropkicks. While not tagged in he leaps the ropes to dropkick Roca's who is recovering from a posting, then holds the top rope to spring back outside to the ring apron. Caclard quickly drapes himself across Roca's for the equaliser and the crowd are FURIOUS. Caclard has a vicious heel Dynamite Kid look to him. The heels have some great double teams, Caclard holding Roca's in a full nelson for a Sanniez dropkick. Later when Hassouni has made the hot tag. Caclard gets dropkicked to ringside and gets into a fight with Delaporte and some other ringsiders who throw him in, lumberjack match style. Hassouni gets posted by Caclard but he backwards leapfrogs him and rolls him up in a folding press for the decider. It is, as OJ Says a very fast paced engaging bout, although it loses some shine as the heels take over and gain their heat. A good exhibition of the French style. Talking of TF1 and colour, this bout is in colour yet is supposed to be a TF1 broadcast from 1976? @Phil Lions please can you check and confirm if the transmission details the INA provide are correct? It's in a lot better quality than most of the other early INA colour recordings so it might be a rare transmission master rather than an off air recording like most of INA's colour stock. In which case possibly TF1 were already shooting some stuff in colour prior to Spring 1977 and were line-converting it to 819 line B/W for transmission. Perhaps they even did colour testing broadcasts like ITV and BBC1 did August-November 1969?

I never call babyfaces in America "Bons" or "blue eyes" or heels in America "Mechants". Although anyone who insists on calling babyfaces outside America "tecnicos" is digging their own grave if they ever use that term in reference to Ultimate Warrior, Uncle Elmer, Big Daddy, El Gigante ... 😆