David Mantell

Agree totally but their size wasn't the BARRIER it would have been in the States. 90s/C21st Cruisers are lightER but they're still a lot heavier than LPP/Saulnier/Kidd/Saint/Grey/most TBWs - or the bunch of lower weights that got dumped down to Mexico in the late 30s. Just Britain for example - Daddy. Haystacks, Kirk, Muir, Daly, Elrington, Rex Strong, Judd Harris, Crusher Mason, Gargantua, Dave Taylor, Docker Don Steadman, The Klondyke Brothers (and hell Klondyke Kate) and the list goes on However you could well have hit on something in terms of a society's mentality with your comment about America "the land of the giants" that served as a barrier to an American Le Petit Prince or George Kidd getting their breakthrough. In Britain, the narrative is that Kidd was very much the mould-breaker in terms of where public interest in the weights lay.

Bit of a short one but it does feature one of the all time faves of this thread and institutions of Le Catch Sur La Tele Francais, Franz Van Buyten from Belgium. (Just dawned on me he and Leland Bryant - see 2020s Rumble Promotions videos on the British Wrestling thread - are lookalikes!) Starts off as a strength match. like what you imagine Gotch Vs Hackenschmidt was like in 1908 from the photos. Eventually Franz somersaults from a top wristlock tons better position and uses that as the launchpad for a single leg monkey flip/armdrags. Franz posts his man and goes in for a huracanrana but ends up pounding him in the corner. Cut to Noel getting a KO Count. He is barely up when Franz gets a backslide winner. Lopsided but it looks like there was a lot more material cut. I think Peter Wilhelm says this was a rematch - I wonder if that bout was uploaded too?

Jim and Brian came up with quite a good balanced piece.

Cruiserweights aren't quite lighter weights though. Nelson Royal, Denny Brown etc were not headlines but they were still propping up the undercard of NWA territory shows in the mid 80s. The NWA World Junior Heavyweight Championship did not get pensioned off to Mexico like the Lightweight, Welterweight and Middleweight titles were by the end of the Thirties and the Light Heavyweight Championship two decades later. American Promotions in the Nineties/Noughties just used "Light Heavyweight" as a synonym for Cruiserweight or Junior Heavyweight without thought as to its correct usage as the number 3 weight division.

People kept to their weight division, yes. Didn't stop middleweights Mick McManus and Jackie Pallo and their heel Vs heel feud becoming THEEE marquee feud of 60s Britain.

Yes but why? I want to drill down deeper as to what it was in that part of the world that stopped people buying into lighter weights. If it was that simple, lighter weights would have failed all over the world, not just in America. Mexico, Europe and Japan didn't spit them out, far from it. Few 16 year olds could do what Danny Collins and Kid McCoy could do and few wiry smaller guys could do what Le Petit Prince or Johnny Saint could do. (Jim Breaks would have made a great sneaky heel manager in America.)

A few minutes of Schumann in August 1986 putting up a good fight against big Swiss Rene.including the same rear snapmare while almost up from a bridge as Funaki did in the previous videos. Proceeded by a Ringerparade including Leon White still in white meat babyface Baby Bull persona complete with baseball cap as pictured in PWI Scouting Reports when he was the big young kid who just might give AWA World Champion Stan Hansen a hard time.

From what I can see, in WWE he is treated as a makeshift heavyweight (A lot of Jim Cornette's criticism of Marko Stunt is based on Stunt being likewise passed off as a heavyweight against all plausibility.). Previously in WCW Mysterio was classed as a Cruiserweight, a term borrowed in the 90s from Boxing originally meaning the equivalent of Junior Heavyweight in American Wrestling up to the 80s, Mid Heavyweight in Traditional British Wrestling and Poids Moyen Lourds in Traditional French Catch. Cruiserweight was adopted by 90s WCW because some workers and fans considered "Junior Heavyweight" to be emasculating!

Oh and you'll never guess what the algorithms on my Smart TV YouTube app put up for me to watch after that Heumarkt footage: Bless 'em.

Some more Flying Funaki for you, this time in a 1988 clean match at the Heumarkt against Tony StClair. I'm getting ready to go out for the night but I might do a fuller account of this tomorrow or sometime. It's a really good scientific match but it's undermined by two problems 1) large sections cropped out - it's basically edited highlights. 2) Didier Gapp and his "comedy" Humourless Officialdom Miserable Git act as referee. Some really great moves especially Funaki, look out in clip 1 for him bridging up to almost upright then getting a rear snapmare on Tony even before fully standing. It ends in a draw with Funaki almost getting a pin when the final bell goes. Nice to see since mostly the Japanese in Germany/Austria played street thug heel characters (notable exception Jushin Liger in 1992 and that was with his internationally famous mask on, not as Fuji Yamada.) Hopefully one day we will get footage of the Yamada/Funaki tag team in either the UK or Germany/ Austria.

There's ITV footage of kids doing that for Big Daddy.

A certain amount of Gorgeous George's mainstream popularity was because non fans liked him because serious marks found him embarrassing. The Andy Kaufman In Memphis Factor.

And a comparable and possibly higher number were doing the same on this side of the Atlantic. In the case of some European nation considerably higher as a proportion of overall population size rather than raw numbers. (statistic: 33 million viewers for The Main Event=> 10% of the US Population. In the UK 10% works out to 7 million, at the top end of average viewing figures for World Of Sport every Saturday at 4pm until about 1985. Another statistic, I gather AEW Dynamite averages about 0.6M viewers per week = about 0.2% of the US population. 0.2% of Greece's population of 10 million = 20K about as many people as turned up every year in the 1970s to watch the International Kats Festival in Athens in person.)

True. Olive Et Tom Championats De Foot. And one about a girl with magical powers who defeated the male baddies by inflicting girly magical humiliation spells on them and could transform herself into every feminine stereotype in history. I went to French language summer schools in Rambouillet in 1988 age 14 and Cap D'Ailles in 1990 age 16 and remember these weird cartoons with the overly expressive eyes on in the TV room both times. But does Gatchaman count as anime? If so, the US and the UK both had the sanitised version Battle Of The Planets.

IiRC he was a junior heavyweight. The kids today use "Cruiserweight" and "Junior" to mean anyone not elephantine but back in the day it was used to mean the equivalent of Mid Heavyweight in the UK. Some wrestlers were champions even at Light Heavyweight (#3 division) as a preparation for an eventual heavyweight push - case in point Verne Gagne. This also happened in Britain - most extreme case in point Dynamite Kid going from beating Jim Breaks in 1977 for the same British Lightweight Championship that Nino Bryant holds today to being a roided-up WWF World Tag Team Champion just 9 years later. Slightly less extreme example Danny Collins' progression from white meat blue-eye British Welterweight Champion Danny Boy Collins in 1984 to heel British Light Heavyweight Champion Dirty Dan Collins by 1997 - had accumulated injuries not taken their toll and led to a slowdown (and five year sabbatical 2002-2007) he might have made British Heavyweight Champion by 2000 and has indeed in later life been World Heavyweight Champion for the Knight family's WAW and several UK New School promotions.

I get the impression he was more impressive to watch in squash match situations than he was in competitive bouts (CF the Pathe Newsreel footage Vs George Gregory in Manchester where as the voiceover man says, even their respective mothers could hardly tell them apart.)

(Not that Warrior was an angel either.)

Congratulations to Bob Backlund on becoming the last surviving W(W)WF World Heavyweight Champion 1963-1990. This now leaves Mr T and Ted DiBiase as the two last surviving main eventers from the first six WrestleManias

Bounced from the French Catch thread: Why did the three lighter weight titles get bounced off to Mexico in the late 1930s with the NWA World Light Heavyweight Championship following in the late 1950s? Why was America unable to come up with its own versions of George Kidd. Rene Ben Chemoul, "Le Petit Prince" Daniel Dubail, Johnny Saint etc etc. Was George Bothner a household name and pals with Babe Ruth like Strangle Lewis was? Why did Europe, Mexico and Japan managed to make stars in the lighter weights but not America?

In the absence of a response I am bouncing this one off to a thread of its own https://forums.prowrestlingonly.com/topic/57860-why-did-the-lighter-weights-die-off-in-america/

Okay, this looks like a good candidate for my British version of Batistou versus Yannick Fryziuk from 1975. Two big strong guys with the technical skill. Both by this stage blue eyes. Roach was not yet in the role of Bomber in Aug Wiedersehen Pet that would finally typecast him as a goody but headed that way. Johnson, once the thug heel in The Dangermen with Steve Haggerty, now an amiable old Bulldog unable to get heat after the sympathy his 1979 juicing by Spiros Arion aroused. Both regulars in the German tournaments plus Roach showed his face between falls on French TV Catch in 1974 with the evidence up on YouTube. "An 'Eavyweight Contest" says MC Brian Crabtree and make no mistake. Round 1: after a couple of inconclusive lockups, Johnson gets a headlock, throws Roach in the ropes and absorbs the bodycheck rebound. Roach gets a side headlock into side chancery throw but Joyson rolls neatly through and up. Roach gets n upper armlock into wristlock which Joyson twists out of while standing. Joyson works through several twist and turns to get the wristlock he wants to lever Pat down to the mat but he soon pushes back up to a standing position with them battling over top wristlock control. Neither man is going to do a French style back somersault to improve their leverage but Pat tries forcing Colin's head away which Colin resists. Colin eventually gets the wrist lever with an arm though thecarmpit to force a high whip and bump. Kent Walton calls it the Half Nelson Throw. I must remember that one. Colin keeps the wristlever but when he concerts to a double wristlock (hammerlock with bar) Roach forces him off with a mighty crotchhold and BODYSLAM. They finger Interlock, Pat picks off one hand with a foot and wristlevers the other arm, Joyson rolls through in the classic British escape but has to take the bump when Roach reverses the wrist lever. With his man on the mat. Roach switches to an upper, armlock.resting Joynson on his side. He tries for several cross press pin attempts but never gets more than 1. They reset and Joynson gets a single legdive into double handed toehold on the mat. Roach tries to grab for the chin but Johnson shrugs it off and smashes the leg down forca final weakener, Roach is up at 6 and gets a (not very far flinging) cross buttock throw, then comes off the ropes with a bodycheck. Joyson is up at 7 but into a side chancery throw into rear chinlock. Roach changes arms., resists a rear snapmare attempt from the seated Joynson and shifts to a cross press but only gets a handful of 2s. They reset and finger Interlock and are struggling for leverage when the bell rings. Round 2: Colin fires off his trademark forearm uppercut. As a heel and Dangerman this was a brutal bully boy signature, as a blue eye it often feels out of place- the audience in Solihull late 1976 almost sided with Kendo Nagasaki against Colin over his overuse of the uppercut. Johnson goes from a referee's hold to another blasting uppercut. He hits the ropes and accidentally back into referee Dave Reece - unlike some bouts we've seen on the continent the ref does not take this personally, a roundful of handshakes and apologies and it's all sorted. Nice round of applause from the crowd. Then it's back to the power stuff - Roach gets a side heädlock, Joynson threw him off but he rebounds off the ropes with a bodycheck then a side chancery throw. He goes for another bodycheck but Colin gets a legdive into kneeling double handed toehold, bending to foot against his knee, shrugging off a Roach grab for the chin. He adjusts to a standing leglock (while checking Reece is OK.) stomping to get weakening shocks. Roach knocks him free using his arms to bash the lower leg into Colin's head. Roach is up and gets an upper armlock and smashes the arm over his knee. He goes for an attack on his grounded opponent but realises and backs off sharply. Colin and Pat finger Interlock Roach escapes one arm and bridges on turning the other arm to a wristlever and then in to a cross press but doesn't get any pin. So he posts Joynson and gets a side headlock but Joyson breaks free with a series of forearms. Roach is equally skilled and whips Johnson into the ropes, picks up his foot and jams it in Colin's head to floor him. Roach gets an armlock, tries for a straight arm lift submission but Johnson is just too heavy. So they go for a top wristlock instead and Roach takes his man back to canvas, forcing the shoulder blades down, briefly getting 1 but not holding down. Johnson kips up. gets a wristlever, tries to high whip Roach but Pat resists. He nonetheless forces Roach down kneeling and gets a hammerlock. The bell eventually goes but Roach's arm is badly weakened. Round 3, Roach gets an upper armlock and bashes the arm about his ribs. He strikes with a bodycheck, two forearm uppercuts, posting, over knee backbreaker drop, cross press and opening pin! Round 4, Roach gets a side headlock six forearm smashes and a side chancery throw but stands back when told. He gets a series of Manchettes in but then is caught in a crosbuttock throw and cross press for 2. Roach kicks out and Colin gets him in a pressure points into a rear chinlock but Roach gets him in a Fireman's carry and briefly lifts but Joynson still had his Chinlock which has shifted to a side chancery set up for some more forearms. Pat absorbs the blows but then collapses for a few seconds against the post. He recovers, takes another couple of forearms from Colin, cross buttocks and arm levers him but can't get the submission.Joynson gets an armbar into double wristlock into shoulder press but no pin. Roach bridges up and pushes up into a standing finger Interlock. He breaks apart one side and armdrags Joynson down or at least tries to but Colin ends up on top. Johnson makes a rear waistlock on Roach but Pat forces upwards So Joynson gets a front chancery and Roach lifts him and places him on the ring apron. Another finger Interlock makes a full Japanese Stranglehold for Colin. He pulls Roach back over his knees but hasn't got the feet in position for a surfboard and anyway the bell goes. Round 5: Roach gets in behind with a forearm smash to Joynson's shoulder laces, felling him. He delivers another to the back and three to the front - oddly enough Roach seems to shout his own name "ROACH!" with each landing blow - before side chancery throwing Joynson, bodychecking him and getting a side headlock. But Colin atomic drops Pat right on his knee and cross presses him for 2. A posting, slam and reverse double kneepress finishes off Roach and Johnson has his equaliser. Round 6: Joynson gets four blows to the back, Roach retaliates with a butt to the lower chest similar to that Fryziuk used against Batistou. Joynson gets two uppercuts but Roach boots him down right in the head. He whips his man into the ropes and gives him a big backdrop on the rebound. Joynson is barely up when Roach gives him a far distance slam and shoulder presses him for the deciding fall. A good sporting contest like the Batistou-Frysiuk contest looked to be headed until the final few minutes. It's not that the heavyweight, lightweight and in between are correct or incorrect versions of each other but they are all a sliding scale. Lightweights give you the speed/skill combo I like. Heavyweights give you the hard hitting-ness @Matt D likes! Johnny Saint and Billy Robinson are merely two ends of a scale.

No but I'll tell you what I have seen And no I'm NOT gonna do a blow by blow account. Although Warrior did surprise me at one point with a rear snapmare. One of those rare scientific holdsbe would occasionally pull out and do as a spot, like the suplex at WM6. Ulf tried his best. At 10 mins this would have made a passable WWF TV match circa 1989-1991. At 20 mins without Pat Patterson nor Randy Savage to direct traffic, it does drag on. Holds used as rest holds American style. Ringside brawls, Ulf doing a flying move and mercifully Warrior catching him.And on and on .. Warrior wins a World Wrestling trophy. He and Ulf shake hands and both lift it up. Jerry McDevitt has prevented use of Unstable so Warrior celebrates to, of all things, We Are The Champions by Queen. Lord knows what referee Mick McMichael Of Doncaster (minus his kilt) was thinking. This man was a far cry from his old mate and sparring partner Vic Faulkner. P.S @sergeiSem I got told off once many years ago for for calling this a CWA bout - are you sure that's correct? Apparently it was some other promoter (I forget who.)

The video opens with one of those endearing moments Kent Walton has on the uncropped TWC rebroadcasts where the cameras are running but the broadcast hasn't started. Testing testing etc. A director points out the camera to Couderc. Only this would have been an off air recording. Batistou I've only ever seen on camcorder footage from well into the 80s of his old age. Fryziuk had a couple of other TV bouts in the late 70s I've already reviewed. Batistou comes to ringside with a Breton piper and accordionist whom Couderc labels l'Orchestre. The accordionist looks suspiciously like Nick Bockwinkel. They carry on playing a minute or two into the match "C'est pas Lulu, c'est Batistou" he quips. (I sadly doubt he ever saw Lulu's Royal Variety Show performance with Jackie Pallo - he played a Mountie. she played a Squaw Native American Jackie: "First I had to wrestle that big old grizzly." Lulu:"What big old grizzly?" Jackie: "Mick McManus! And then I got caught by the Cherokees." Lulu "Oh, he very dirty fighter that Mick McManus.". Well it's better than Jimmy Hart saying that with his Barbered hair at WM4 "I look just like LuLuLu "{sic} .) Twice Fryziuk gets double legs, twice Batistou headscissor spins him off (not up on his skull so not a toupie). Fryziuk then first off a rear snapmare into grovit but Batistou gets a grovit of his own and the two roll in their stalemate into the corner. Batistou gets a cross buttock throw but Fryziuk gets up sharpish and gets a side headlock into standing hammerlock into rear leg trip into folding press but sadly Batistou's feet are on the ropes. They finger-interlock, Batistou breaks open one interlock with a knee, forces a whip on the other arm (with Fryziuk taking a mild bump) and gets an armhank. Fryziuk tries standing up in the hold to get a pinning position - twice he is pulled down. Fryziuk legspreads and neatly unpicks the hold with one foot. He looks to be going for a headlock but slips round the back into a hammerlock then round the front in an armdrags into an armlock on the mat. He picks his man up and throws him in the hold, maintaining the armlock throughout. He still keeps holding even when Batistou forces up to his knees, suspends his weight from Fryziuk's shoulder joint, then goes fully upright for a hiptoss; even this does not break the Pole's grasp. Batistou tries the shoulder weakener again, this time moving into a front chancery. Fryziuk replies with a crotch hold and bodyslam and STILL has the armlock! Batistou tries another side chancery, Fryziuk breaks and gets a cross buttock throw but this finally breaks the armlock free. So the Pole goes for the same side headlock to back hammerlock as before but this time transitions to the other arm and a top wristlock and forces Batistou back into the corner. He is a bit slow releasing and Batistou shoved him down. Luckily the needle calms and Batistou gets a wristlever into cross buttock throw, maintaining the wristlever. Friziuk tries an atomic drop but Fryziuk rolls through and maintains the side headlock if not the wristlever. Fryziuk tries but fails to get headscissors. Batistou switches to kneeling then standing position then transitions to standing hammerlock. Fryziuk turns himself round into the front facing hammerlock position and backdrops Batistou. Batistou gets an armlock and armdrag on Fryiziuk, turns him over in a hammerlock and gets headscissors which Fryziuk wedges out of, but Batistou keeps a wristlever and pulls him back in a couple of times. He releases the arm and Fryziuk turns the headscissors upright. He tries handstanding out (Couderc calls it a toupie, perhaps he thinks the Pole will go for Leduc's corkscrew escape.) but Batistou gives him a mini piledriver like Roland Bock would do to Antonio Inoki, and turns the scissor sideways. Next Fryziuk turns himself into the guard and bridges up, pulling the scissor into a Frank Gotch figure 4 toehold position. Batistou releases and reapplies his legs trying for a bodyscissors position (adjusting for grip) but is held up by Frysiuk's bridge. He gets a finger Interlock on the mat and comes off the bridge, Frzyiuk tries to power up but is forced down into front shoulder press for 2. Fryziuk fights back to standing finger Interlock but Batistou monkey climbs him, flipping his across the ring. Batistou gets a single legdive and pinions the leg applying pressure. A couple of times Fryziuk relaxes ands ends up getting his shoulders counted for 1! Batistou drags his man around by the other leg before resuming weakening on the original leg in a more advantageous part of the ring. He applies the legspread to Fryziuk who sits up but is chopped down twice. The third time he gets a blockbuster suplex from a seated position and throws Batistou out of the ring. The Breton gets back sharpish and reapplies the legspread, chopping down a couple more Fryziuk sit-ups and again falling victim to the seated Blockbuster suplex ejection. He tries a third time and Fryziuk tries his blockbuster a third time but Batistou Lang's short of the ropes, gets up and bodychecks the Pole. He gets finger Interlock into çrossed scissor hold and looks like he's trying an actual toupie but can't get up and Batistou forces the legs down into the guard toehold people normally get after they escape a headscissors. He gets a couple of one count pins from this position. Batistou drags him backwards away from the ropes but Fryziuk bounces him off the other ropes and flips him with his legs on the rebound. With Batistou still selling his back from this. Fryziuk pulls off two monkey climbs in succession. He posts him and goes for a front waistlock.posdibkybto get a belly to belly suplex, but Batistou turns him round into the corner, forcing a break which the Breton hesitatingly complies with. They shake hands, this has been a good sporting contest, no need to spoil it with temperament. Fryziuk gets a single legdive and grapevines the leg. Batistou tries to force the chin away but a quick strong wristlock wrench breaks it. Fryziuk releases and reapplies his leglock for a better grip, forming a sort of Indian Deathlock. He deflects another chin grip with another wrench of the wrist and transitions to the Gotch toehold. Batistou gets a leg free, Fryziuk wrenches on the other leg but it backfires as he ends up pulling Batistou over entirely and the Breton's feet hit the ropes, forcing a break. Fryziuk tries for another legdives but only gets a shove and Batistou easily backs off the ropes and bounces forward. He gets another shove, this time actually flooring Batistou and takes an arm as his man rises, whipping him into the ropes but Batistou cames back with a sunset flip for 2. Fryziuk fires off three Manchettes - the first ones of the bout but they make no impression. The shove to the midsection is more effective, flooring Batistou. He gets up, fires off two Manchettes of his own and has Fryziuk trapped in the ropes but the ref warned him of further attack and bravely halts a charge from off the ropes by Batistou. Fryziuk gets a rear waistlock and drops Batistou on his knee. He gets the rear waistlock again then into full nelson then into further nelson shoulder press but with a leg under his man's shoulders looking more like a submission than pin attempt. He pulls the leg out, drops a heel on Fryziuk's chest, puts it back and uses it to work over the back of Batistou's neck. Batistou frees his arms and thus the rest of himself and gets a Gotch toehold of his own. Fryziuk twice presses up but is hammered down by Batistou who then turns him into the guard, kneel son the toehold to form his own Indian Deathlock and considers punching his man but thinks better of ruining a good scientific match and instead twists his man's head sideways and shoves him down. Fryziuk sets up and gets a waistlock of which which another shove down takes care. For his next attempt he gets an arm and pulls his man over in a seated armdrag then gets a headscissors on him. Batistou turns his man upright and pulls his head out putting the knee in instead but Fryziuk shoved him off - into the ropes. L'Arbitre tries to pull him off but Fryziuk shoves him away and continues to punish his man on the ropes, earning himself a first Avertisement (much to Couderc's amusement fcr some reason.) It looks like the bout is finally going nasty with only 6 minutes of clip left. Batistou snapmares his man and chops him when down. the first barely legal as continuous movement, the next two dubious. He gets pressure points into a rear chinlock into a neck wrench as a setup for a chop. He next gets a rear snapmare but Fryziuk gets headscissors. Batistou slips out and Fryziuk lifts him up off the mat (the ref is not happy.). The Breton gets up and the Pole lands something dangerously close to a punch. L'Arbitre isn't sure but lets Batistou have a free climb upright. Fryziuk charges him twice in the thighs. felling him on the second attempt and getting a KO Count (for 5) unlike the previous time. Batistou gets up and shoulder drives Fryziuk into the ropes, but is warned off following up by the ref. He complies only for Fryziuk to land a Manchette. Batistou has finally had enough, unloading with a whole flurry of chops and Manchettes. He snapmares his man only for Fryziuk to knock him down onto the bottom rope and attack him from the standing position. The ref pulls him off and Batistou takes a long count. When he is up, Fryziuk gets a side heädlock into cross buttock throw. He follows with a nice monkey climb. Batistou gets a single leg takedown and legspread. Fryziuk get to detach a wrist, manages it with some effort and gets the arm bent ready for a top wristlock but Batistou slugs him over the head. He pulls his man up and delivers three Manchettes. Fryziuk replies with a headbutt and a few Manchettes of his own that leave his man reeling on the ropes. L'Arbitre tries to stop but he lifts him out of the way and carries on. He nearly gets a knockout count on the floored Breton and carries on with the Manchettes until Batistou, stops, drops goes through his man's legs and trips him into a side folding press for the one fall required. Twenty minutes of good clean wrestling and five minutes of dirty brawling. They make it up at the end, shaking hands. The first 20 minutes until it broke down was very much the heavyweight version of clean wrestling, not as fast and furious as the lightweight version but such is the price if you insist on big men. I am thinking of finding a similar British match for the British thread, probably from around the same time.

Is he playing the heels in these clips like in the previously atraced ones? I had an older British fan tour him as an example of a no nonsense earlier generation. Then I saw his French TV bouts and there he was being a complete and total MECHANT!!!

Looked, maybe, but by that stage he was more dangerous with Wigan Snakepit skills and later on acquiring Indian folk wrestling knowledge. He seems to have been a bit more willing to put others over than previously assumed, I have seen posed gym photos of him caught in a flying headscissors c/o a younger Mike Marino and grimacing like there had been a sewage leak. If it was someone not remotely in his league it could get execution like eg with Blond Adonis Shirley Crabtree (threatened to do a runner)or with The Imposter Ghoul (ran round the ring for three minutes before suffering a back breaking injury.)