David Mantell

I don't think it's Saint's personal commitment to clean wrestling that was the drawing card with him, rather the overall profusion of skilled technical work he and an opponent could come up with. The opponent's own technical skills would be what gave the broth it's different flavours. In this regard it took two to tango. Much as I love Khader Hassouni's tag matches in French Catch teamed with Jean Corne or Le Petit Prince , I've always found his FA Cup Final world lightweight title shot a bit lacklustre through no fault of Saint. Also blue-eye versus heel and the concomitant crowd working can cramp Saint's style somewhat. He and Finlay get away with it as that was more a vehicle for Finlay the heel than Saint the scientist but with other rulebreakers that can be a distraction: The bout I wanted to post which sadly isn't on YouTube is the Camcorder recording of Johnny Saint Vs Soldier Boy Steve Prince from the early 90s. Prince played a slightly hapless comedy "Military Man" heel character and kept breaking off from wrestling with Saint to complain to the referee that his escapes somehow constituted foul tactics. It really is a bit of a misuse of Saint. (No disrespect to Steve Prince, a nice bloke and fellow old schoolie. He did go on to become British Welterweight Champion in 1993 as well as winning the British Tag Team Championship with Vic Powers - albeit possibly as a result of an audible called where champion the Liverpool Lads legitimately clashed heads - if you've seen Robbie Brookside's Video Diary which I think I posted earlier you'll know the incident) So instead I'll post a different example of Saint having to play straight man to a loud heel and his heelish antics. Saint does do a lot of good moves including the same literal tying up in knots we saw Vasilios Montopolos do on the French Catch thread but he has to make space for Sid's heeling antics and be the outraged hero and it's not really what he excelled at: I don't watch enough modern WWE to be aware of Michael Cole's overall style as a commentator but if Kent Walton said that about anybody (except an exception brutal heel perhaps) it would be intended - and taken- as a major compliment.

Weird finish to the first fall. Hassouni is thrown out of the ring and knocked unconscious. Normally the ref should give a Knockout (countout) count - which would either give Tejero and Remy the win in a 1KO tag or if it was a 2KO tag one fall plus Hassouni eliminated leaving Le Petit Prince to face Les Mechants under handicap tag rules for the remaining two falls. (A French fan who grew up with French Catch could confirm which was generally used - in Britain both were used and it would be noted which system was in force during the MC's instructions. 2KO became more prevalent in the 80s.) But instead of any Knockout count, Le Petit Prince and a second submit on Hassouni's behalf then carry him back to the corner around the outside of the ring. where they freshen him up and send him out to fight fall 2. Les Bons are thus able to continue the match with both team members! By the way, some French Vocabulary - "Le Cushion De Protection" = The Corner Pad.

The second one I think we've talked about in the past on here about both bouts. mansour was one of two brothers who were lead babyfaces in Lebanon, a former post-WW1 French protectorate that probably developed a local scene from imported French Catch kinescopes. Hassouni was just a few months short of his trip to Britain and unsuccessful shot at Johnny Saint's World Lightweight title screened on 1977 FA Cup Day WOS.

Fit lets his squaw keep HIM in line as she is Coach and she negatively as well as positively motivates him to get the job done and he knows it and in the end appreciates it.

Was going to pull up on this as Tyson Fury was 13 going 14 in 2002 until I figured out this was you coming back at the end. I was on 1stopwrestling.co.uk from pretty near the beginning - it was a struggle to have an old school discussion on there while under siege from young FWA fan trolls for whom Old School was an "antiquated" abomination that needed to be wiped out and that they, by way of disruptive posting, were the front line in this fight. To some extent however this was fans marking out for the idea that the heel was seeking an easy outlet for a sadistic beatdowns by taking a match like this. This was encouraged by Finlay's pre-match promos "Look what they're sending in against me today! A Lightweight! I EAT LIGHTWEIGHTS and I'm going to EAT Johnny Saint this afternoon!" Finlay was by no means a superheavyweight but his run as a bully in 1986 that drove Big Daddy into a crusade to straighten him out established him with a reputation as someone who deliberately took on lighter wrestlers to beat down on them for his jollies. I'm not surprised an American critic preferred this to one of Saint's clean matches. It shows that American -style ring psychology was not unknown in Britain, it was just reserved for hero versus villain match such as this, which was easier for American fans to relate to. I do have sympathy for OJ's suggestion that Finlay wasn't properly showing his skills during this period. I would only argue that there was a valid reason why, relating to how he was being pushed. Also that he and Paula got real heat rather than just being an irritant. He does get more to do here than he does in bouts against less experienced lighter men. In Danny Collins's case it was building slowly to a day when Collins could inflict a serious defeat on Finlay and get even. (This finally occurred in 1989, a year too late for television.) In this bought, yes he's in against a lightweight but it's the best darn lightweight on the planet to keep him on his toes. Obviously from Saint's perspective a blue-eye Vs heel match is not the best vehicle for his skills as he has to work the crowd rather than get on with employing his technical skill.

I'm surprised this match never got a review on here before (although I myself posted it to the "Why is America always assumed to be the centre of the wrestling universe" thread. Of all Finlay's late 80s bouts this is probably the quintessential one. One again he's on with a much lighter man, except said lighter man is the best Lightweight on the planet (temporarily separated from his title by a heelish Mike Jordan.) In particular the finish is a study in the strengths and limitations of the Mountevans Rules. By now Finlay has quit Crabtreeland and gone to All Star and taken up a whole episode in late 87 beating Chic Cullen in cuts for the British Heavy Middleweight Championship. This was taped at the same Croydon January 1988 show as the Kendo/Rocco breakup. (I had the local newspaper advert for years. I may still have it stuffed away.) Sadly the pre-match promos are missing with Finlay giving it American style trash talking as Paula smirks by his side while Saint talks no nonsense Manchester bloke like a sly old poacher about how he'll take the big braggart down. Finlay 's entrance is a real show of flamboyance in a British scene commonly accused of lacking such things, with Paula's gold spangly dress and Native American headdress making her a focal point next to Finlay's beefy frame and cloverleaf tights and green spangly waistcoat. Unlike Saint's clean match opponents who just take being reversed gamely. Finlay roars with rage whenever a hold is reversed on him. He still does a nice roll on the mat and some interesting combination holds in the earlier rounds. Referee Bob Collins, an old heel is a cross little man here chastising Finlay on his rule ending. A bad landing by Finlay at the end of Round 1 gets a roar of joy from the crowd. Finlay goes for a chicken wing crossface in round 2 but can't lock it off. Sarcastic "AHH" from the crowd when he goes to Paula to massage his fingers. Possibly a botch at the end of Round 2, as the Saint Lady of the Lake sequence goes on after the bell for aaaages, whereas I suspect it was only meant to overrun by a second or two. Finlay up to dirty tricks in Round 3, masterfully hides a closed fist punch from the referee. (Thought - hiding a closed fist was to the UK what hiding a foreign object was in America.). Finlay is sunset flipped and has to resort to a blatant punch to the head to escape. This gets him a first public warning (in America a Babyface could do this and it would be good clean wrestling.) Dirty Dave even gets in a few stops on the mat while the ref turns to notify the timekeeper of the public warning! Saint gets a hope spot with a series of high backdrops until Finlay catches him on one and makes it into a fireman's carry suplex (his specialty) for the opener, stopping off to lay some vebals in the pinned Saint, as does Paula who audibly calls saint "Boy" . South London crowd are hopping mad. Saint scores the equaliser, rocking Finlay with a series of dropkicks before bouncing him off the ropes into a folding press. Cue the high point for Finlay haters, after letting loose on Saint and the ref, Paula turns round on her man, tells him off and refuse Finlay a kiss ! "Do what I say, boy!" she commands him. It seems it's the negative motivator Finlay needs - "That's YOUR doing, now I'll get you" he roars at Saint. It doesn't really get him far, at one point he is thrown out, Paula is by her site and the camera is right there to catch her jawing with ringsiders. The end comes at the break between rounds 5 and 6. Finlay attacks Saint and Saint grabs him, raises a fist and looks for crowd permission to retaliate. But Palace grabs Saint's hand allowing Finlay to throw him to ringside. The whole performance lands Finlay with a second and final PW at the start of round 6 but Saint injured his shoulder on the landing and Finlay takes advantage with arm armbar. Saint resist so Finlay tightens it up for the winning submission, his between bell attack having won him the match and the rules powerless to stop it. Crowd are enraged and Finlay sloshes oil on the flames. Finally gets his kiss from Paula and most ostentatiously too. They pose right opposite the hardcam and Finlay emphasizes that "Princess Paula keeps me clear!" Hen pecked hardman he may be but, infuriatingly for the fans the hen pecking keeps him a winner just like the dirty tactics do.

Actually no. It got moved to lunchtime in 1985 just a while before the end of World of Sport and there it stayed until the bitter end.

(honourable exception: Doug) Worse still Andre Baker under encouragement from Fin Martin and much of the Smart crowd you mentioned in your Dirt Bike Kidiot article, was trying to divert the flow of young talent away from the traditional scene in an attempt to kill it off. He said in his interview with Fin for pre-Powerslam SOW that he would rather kids not be in the business than be involved in the Traditional British scene, a quote Fin highlighted.

The name EWF smacks of Orig. See also BWF (mk2, not the 1960s Paul Lincoln et al one) and WWF in 1974 five years before VJM dumped the second and WWF again on an early 1983 Reslo edition with the angle where rival World Heavyweight Championship claimants Wayne Bridges and Tony StClair came face to face and belt to belt. Anything (x)WF involving Britain's talent pool pre 2000 I'd lay odds was his work. I've said it before but I really can't see how anyone who has seen Big Daddy at his worst can think Flesh Gordon was the drizzling excrements. He seems to be a target not only for Marc Mercier and the FFCP but also most of France's Americanisation/Smark crowd.

1995 was a bad year in that regard Max Crabtree retires, Reslo finished and WCW jilted ITV and ran off with Superchannel (it ended in tears with Superchannel kaput and WCW on Friday evenings on Channel 5 until its own end) Orig still did the odd Reslo/Trad British show among the WWF tribute shows until he quit due to illness in 2002 and had put up a new BWF websIte with interesting personality profiles before he died in 2009. His mate Alan runs Welsh Wrestling which claims to be post-Reslo in nature. Mention tribute shows to The Boys and Girls and they will uniformly tell you it was a good period when they made better money. It was the new generation of All Star talent - Robbie Dynamite, Dean Allmark, Kid Cool, Mikey Whiplash, Playboy Johnny Midnight - that really broke All Star out of that cycle and made it into its C21st incarnation.

Do bring him on as we were discussing the Peter Bainbridge match with him from 1987 just a couple of pages back. He could give Ohtani some more insight on serious clean matches between two teenage blue-eyes. I spoke to Geraint a brief while back on a FB about tagging with Flesh Gordon on Reslo, he just said Gordon was an OK guy.

That was from 2012 not 2014 (the then last year) and it was headlined by the original Superflies (Jimmy Ocean's retirement match) and Saraya Senior versus Robbie Brookside and Frankie Sloan the New Liverpool Lads. The Finlays beat Dirty Dan and Wildcat Rob (both heels) in Germany that Xmas in the father's retirement match which I've posted to this thread already.

Old training partners from Finlay's dad's promotion in Belfast. Finlay still showed flashes of his skill at this time but his basic persona was a dirty wrestler and bully egged on by his noisy hen pecking wife. Heat generating heaven if not purist ideal. Steve "Black" Prince and Danny Collins had already got brutal stiff beatdowns (Danny gamely fought his way through several of these until eventually taking the British Heavy Middleweight title from Finlay in 1989. His bullying ways on lighter opponents had already caught Big Daddy's attention with the big man turning up to various Finlay matches to call the "bully" out before eventually giving him the standard Daddy treatment in the 1986 FA Cup Final. This is the period when out of the ring, Finlay would regularly break the thumbs of drunk Macho Men in bars looking to impress their Miss Elizabeth by challenging the "fake" wrestler (I have no sympathy for them.) On Reslo they had more scope to get away with longer out of the ring brawls and interference from Paula. Nice mention of the retaliation rule by Dixon in English (Kent Walton's explanation for why angry blue-eyes would throw the rulebook out after a while.) Nice Johnny Saint style use of the foot by Hamill to break Finlay's wrist lever, and Finlay does a spinning bump to get out of a yanked up wrist lever of Hamill's. Lack of rounds and only one fall reduces Paula's opportunity to give Finlay a good telling off, she is reduced to telling him to get back in there when he is slung out. Nice final smug pose from the First Couple of Wrestling - the heel bully and his noisy missus do it again!

Mammoth was kind of a French version of Junkyard Dog. This was less a scientific wrestling match, more a struggle to get LHM's mask off. You may not like it but you'll have the chant MA-MOUTH! LA-KA-GOUL! in your head for weeks afterwards. MC leads the fans in said chant, like Laetitia getting the kiddies at an All Star show to shout Cheat Cheat Cheat when a heel does so. The mask does come off but LHM stays crouching down until his mask is put back on.

Before Albert Sanniez turned heel in 1977, Noced was Le Petit Prince's main heel nemesis. Francis Louis doesn't tag match. It's mostly LPP selling for heels and making his comeback. That was quite some crowd riot- I bet Les Gendarmes had a LOT of fun doing their best Big Boss Man impersonating back at the station. (For those who don't know, les Flics are a notoriously right wing violent mob, specifically chosen for their low IQs and protected by a police union heavily inflicted by the former FN. or RN as it now is.). It's hard to see what happened to Louis and Richard. Louis seems to be bundled away by the police and Richard, the future Monsieur Jacky/Travesti Man/Marquis MK2, suddenly turns up unconscious after the riot and is rolled out of the ring. Great tragic finish with Petit Prince on the rampage before suddenly collapsing on the mat like Steve Austin at WM13 or even Pillman in the WW91 War Games where Pillman is bashed unconscious by Sid. A Sadder And A wiser Fan You'll Wake The Follow Morn. That towel at the end robbed us of a knockout finish (and the chances of finding out what a knockout is called in French.

I'm wondering if this episode is why there was no Greg Dyke figure in the French wrestling story. French wrestling on unscrambled analogue terrestrial TV came to an end in France with the last New Catch episodes before the 1988-1989 jump from TF1 to Eurosport, possibly mere weeks before The Final Bell on ITV in December 1988. Two months after The Final Bell, New Catch relocates from TF1 to Eurosport making it - and all the visiting British wrestlers therein - accessible to any UK TV Set capable of receiving Sky's WWF overage. In effect, New Catch on Eurosport replaces Old Catch (ITV in the UK, channels 1, 2 and 3 in France) in BOTH Countries. But while Greg Dyke makes a big song and dance about it, holds a special Press Conference at a TV industry convention in Switzerland to announce it to the media - The End Of Wrestling On TV! Hooray More Yuppie Friendly Shows That Big American Car Companies Are Happier To Advertise On - in France, it all gets rather downplayed - just another move of channel, the third in just over three years, Antenne 2 > FR3 > TF1 > Eurosport. I suggest that the bad experience trying to get wrestling off French TV in 1961 was the real reason. When the permanent chop came (notwithstanding TF1's 1991 run of New Catch, the French equivalent of the October 1990 Grampian/STV shows) the French TV execs played their cards VERY carefully. None of Greg Dyke's waving it all about that he was finally ridding his network of Yuppie-unfriendly Pleb Sport. Just a quiet shuffling off like when the Premier League of English Football moved to Sky years later. Nothing to get excited about, just get an Astra box like Les Anglais are doing and life will go on.

Reading this guy's views makes me all the more glad we had Kent Walton on our side of the English Channel. With friends like Darget, the industry hardly needed e nemies. Have added some info about the cancellation to Wikipedia. Will add the magazine as a citation.

Steve Prince was doing pretty well for himself in the early/mid 90s. He was British Welterweight Champion at this time since beating Doc Dean in 1993 (and held it until the TWA set up a new version in 2000). He and Vic Powers beat the Liverpool Lads (Dean & Robbie Brookside) for the British Tag Team Championship - screened on Brookside's video diary on BBC2. I posted an early 2010s clip of him refereeing earlier in the thread.

That was the original Sweet Saraya, mother of the Saraya/Brittany. She was and still is the wife of Ocean's tag partner Ricky Knight. I wish she'd kept that whole Vamp/Brazen Hussy/Gangster's Moll look- Back in the early 1990s all women in Britain, especially outside London, dressed like that when out on the tiles and looking to pull a bloke. Good times! When I first saw here live in Croydon 1995 she was in a black lycra body suit and matching gym shoes and looked like a student working as a wrestling valet as her summer job who didn't quite understand why it was "wrong" to interfere in a match. I think I may have said all this before but I saw that quote while looking through old reviews of Finlay and Paula by OJ - to be fair OJ gets the point of them better than I feared.

Finlay Vs Blackie had been a promising feud at the start of the 1990s when Finlay won the British Heavyweight title from Tony StClair and Blackie was a highly tipped young blue-eye challenger. By this point the title had found its way back to StClair via Dave Taylor. Ladder match were brought back to Britain from Stampede by Kendo Nagasaki who did a bunch of them with Big Daddy in 1976 on house shows. (They were billed as being "American style"). They first became famous when Nagasaki and Clive Myers had the infamous Disco Ladder Match at All Star's first TV show and along with cages and chain matches became ubiquitous at the start of the 1990s due to the Kendo-Rocco feud and their shared predeliction for "hard core violence". Orig Williams, aware of the old mantra that you can get away with ANYTHING in Welsh because the folk in London won't notice, put a load of these matches on in the early 90s featuring pretty much any of his and Brian Dixon's shared talent pool (except for Kendo Nagasaki.). Finlay and Paula had long gone their separate ways and Finlay lacked something much like Randy Savage did when Elizabeth quit their marriage and wrestling and became a WWF unperson. (You can tell peoples' age over here if you ask them who was Fit Finlay's sidekick and they answer Princess Paula or Hornswoggle. Probably true in Germany also where they worked together in the CWA.) There's something missing in her not being there to tell him off and refuse him kisses when he screws up in the ring. That was his gimmick really, the paradox of this hard Irishman being henpecked and under Her orders. This is only a year or so before his WCW debut, so no surprises that he looked like the Belfast Bruiser from WCW @ohtani's jacket . (If not for Superchannel sticking its nose in, he and Stax would have been back on Saturday afternoon ITV just a year after this). Mostly it's an exercise to show off what they could get away with with the IBA (or rather the ITC by now) looking the other way. They obviously had problems with hanging up the bag of money prize, it ends up over a ring post with the ladder propped up under the post. Not much scope for scientific wrestling here although twisting a leg through the metalwork of the ladder would be creative by C21st standards. Also Finlay executing his fireman's carry backdrop on BBC onto the ladder, the crowd barrier (something ITV never bothered with and promotions like All Star and Rumble still don't. A couple of ear-openers in the Welsh commentary - Orig shouting MAMMA MIA and co commentator Nic Parry saying "well well well!". Poor old Bryn Fon doing his into at the top of the ladder, looking and probably feeling a bit of a dork.

Mantopolous as Jerry to Rouxel's Tom. Commentator somewhat risks undermining Rouxel's heat by mentioning he has 2 kids, the younger being a 9 month boy (57 now I guess.). First several minutes are fairly scientific until Rouxel finally gets fed up and starts stomping Mantopolous on the mat. VM uses the ball like George Kidd did against Jack Mulligan in 1975 on ITV, briefly sticking out a twitching limb to cat fish the opponent into making a grab before withdrawing until eventually the opponent makes a mistake and is thrown and cross pressed for a pin attempt. VM also employs a Rick Steamboat slingshot back into the ring. The winning submission comes with VM tying Rouxel up in knots (a cliche come true) although if Rouxel had just let go of his feet, he could have escaped. Interesting venue too, very light and spacey, possibly natural daylight coming in from somewhere if it's the summer. Would have loved to see this place in colour (channel 2 went colour 4 months later.)

This happened sometimes in Britain, particularly at holiday camp shows where a redcoat or somebody would give the audience (casual holidaymakers rather than more serious wrestling fans from the Town Shows) a running commentary and basically get them to mark out properly. This has continued into the C21st and ended in tears a few years back when an Israeli Arab wrestler playing an Arab heel (as is traditional in Israeli pro wrestling) ended up getting called "the Muslim" by a redcoat, causing an offended holidaymaker to write to complain to the Guardian newspaper about Butlins promoting Islamophobia! The end result saw Butlins and All Star amicably part company after decades with All Star getting a replacement deal with rival holiday camp company Pontins while Butlins signed with some new school promotion - an arrangement that was meant to last until the smoke blew over but seems to have endured. There was also an amusing camcorder clip from 1986 of Robbie Brookside versus a heel Chic Cullen where Cullen was using a closed fist punch and the Redcoat encouraged the kids in the audience to alert the referee by shouting "FIST!" which, as one wag put it, resembled a disturbing juvenile version of the infamous Mineshaft nightclub. Actually the finish is quite similar to something from post 1980s Catch with a controversial DQ defeat for Le Bon and a post match brawl which would have caused the ITA (later the IBA) in Britain to have KITTENS but seems to have been OK for De Gaulle era France. The Bollet family would still have an oar in the water by the time of Eurosport New Catch, as although Andre B's career ended when he was hit by a car in 1971, brother Charley was still a referee into the satellite TV early 90s.

Actually just discovered that there was a set up match for this tag pitting Van Buyten against (B)rick Crawford, cut short after a few minutes by a run in (you can tell it's the 90s from that alone) by the future Quebecer Pierre, leading to a street clothes clad Flesh Gordon coming to the ring to rescue Franz and make the challenge for the previous posted match.

Can't find any previous reviews of this. A definite stepping stone from Collins after completely having Jim Breaks ' number, coming back from the loss to Grey and then becoming European Welterweight Champion to now beating the more experienced and heavier Johnny Kidd 2-0. ( He may be 18 but he has transcended TBW status to become, in Kent Walton's words, "a young master of his craft." (Although Kent Walton seems to forget Dynamite Kid did the last step at 18 before Collins. Also although ITV never acknowledged it, Collins was temporarily separated from his British title, jobbing it to veteran crumb heel Cyanide Sid Cooper on an untelevised house show the night after the Euro title win was filmed before heading across La Manchester for his first FFCP tour. He got it back that autumn and held on until he had to vacate in 1989 after beating Finlay for the British Heavy Middleweight title.) No rounds, best of three falls We join the action about 4 mins in with Collins unfolding a crossface into arm armbar. JK goes for a horizontal twist out and tries to widen Danny's stance but he falls forward on one hand and bounces back to a standing start. Johnny gets a leg and tries to trip Danny down but he just hops out the way of the trips. Nice first pint by Collins, he goes for a mid ring sunset flip, Kidd rolls through and tries for a folding press but Danny preforms a toupee on him (he's obviously been swotting up on his Catch Francais ready for Euro title defences for Delaporte.) Kidd cartwheels back to a standing start and tries to legdive round into another Sunset Flip position but Danny does the Davey at SS92/Leo Burke fold down for a pin. A great pair of near pins, Collins comes off the top turnbuckle and leapfrogs Kidd but Johnny jumps on Danny's shoulders from behind to get Collins in an upright flying scissors. He goes to the victory roll but Collins folds down the legs to arrest the momentum for a pin attempt. Kidd flips Collins off him and locks over his legs when he rolls back for a bridging folding press but Danny gets his head free and crawls out. The second straight fall sees the tables turned as Kidd similarly arrests Collins's momentum and Collins goes for the flip off and locking down with his own bridging folding press but unlike Kidd he holds on for the three count. A world title was the best logical step for Danny, there was talk of a claimant from Panama City looking to defend against him. In the event Danny went to Brian Dixon, moved up the weights and avenged several earlier beatings by, as above mentioned, taking Fit Finlay's British Heavy Middleweight title in 1989, the year after TV, before beating Owen Hart in a corker to become World Middleweight champion (the version last claimed a decade earlier by Adrian Street although the CWA had its own version since 1985 and Mal Sanders and Keith Haward had feuded over a version in SunCity SA in 1982.)

https://youtu.be/siUCLQLdkC8 Danny Collins Vs Johnny Kidd 1985. I'll write more about this match later when the fault with the forum support files is rectified. Suffice to say it was a technical classic and a further step on Collins's push.