David Mantell

It was wider than Gordon, it was the entire cast and crew of characters and it became an endemic part of French wrestling - Scott Ryder. Bad Mask, Cybernic Machine - even present day talent like Hugo Perez El General (Latin American guerilla heel- see video a few pages back.) Older veterans got into the game - Jacky Richard replaced Eduardo as Le Marquis circa 1985 complete with butler Paul Butard and later became Travesti Man (with Butard becoming "Best Boy" Jean Claude Blanchard) while his old enemy Angelito adopted the persona of a policeman with a Doberman Pincher pet (which looked dangerously like it wanted to legitimately maul JCB's pet Chihuahua.) Flesh didn't become a Big Daddy figure until the Noughties or at the earliest the late 90s. In the 80s, despite the lucha-inspired Superman schtick, although he was clearly top babyface/blue-eye/bon, he was a serious lighter weight wrestler noted for his tag team with Bordes. In the 90s he had moved up to heavyweight but was still a credible competitor. Delaporte was the French Max Crabtree (and arguably the French Mick McManus too) but the role of Big Daddy was shared out more finely among the roster.

Mambo is an odd case because the gimmick required a supporting cast of drumming chanting tribesmen, each one of whom presumably had to be paid a wage. A promotion doesn't have to be going through a creative good patch to be going through an economic good patch. Brian Dixon went through financial upswings with the Power Rangers gimmick in the mid 1990s and the UK Undertaker/Big Red Machine tag team headlining in the early 00s. Copyright lawyers out paid to the former and pressure to up All Star's game from the falling out with TWA promoter Scott Conway resulted in the phasing out of tribute acts and a focus on young talent like Dean Allmark and Robbie The Body Dynamite. Most British wrestlers who served time on the full blown Tribute shows organised by Orig Wiliams, Shane Stevens etc remember that as a good patch where they were kept nice and busy and the money was rolling in.

It's complex but yes, the sixties was the last point at which everyone agrees the good times were still rolling. The early 70s is seen as a period of dull booking under Tug Holton which the Big Daddy boom cured, but at a cost. Having said that, there are people like me who have happy positive memories of being a fan during that period just like there are people who have happy positive memories of Jim Herd era WCW and the rise to power of Sting, Lex, Simmons and the Steiners. There are probably people in France who feel the same way about 80s catch.

Jean Corne talks about this in the Les Gens Sont Mechants docu. It's very much a defence of kayfabe from what I can make out of what he says.

https://www.youtube.com/@nicoh6481/videos The above YouTube channel contains a number of 1988 TF1 editions of New Catch, the final French Wrestling on unscrambled French terrestrial television before New Catch was relocated to Eurosport, the equivalent moment in French Wrestling of ITV cancelling its Saturday wrestling slot. The episodes don't look like the Gordon/Zefy Vs Jesse Texas/Marquis Jacky match with the dark green mat. Red ropes and white long turnbuckle covers. They look all light blue like later Eurosport episodes. Episode 2 is presumably the Flesh's bare breasted lady friends" episode, to be honest they look more feral than sexploited, like punk band the Slits on the cover of their album Cut. ,

Okay, I've posted a response to their forum Hopefully it will show on their blog page.

Apparently this show in Tours 2011 with Gordon Vs Bad Mask drew 2000 and looks it! https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ghmd4

By the way, here is a clip of Flesh Gordon Vs Scott Ryder from the late Noughties Take a look at the crowd at the start It's ENORMOUS!!!! More like an American WWE tour than an old school European show in the C21st If the video won't embed, here is the link: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8opv0

And another one: Presumably also out there is the beginning of that Fred Magnier/Bob Plantin bout as well as the rest of that promising-looking Antonio Pelera Vs Jean Claude Bardot match we see starting at the end of the clip.

I expect people did tape it (as they did in Britain) and tape traded too and there are possibly pockets of stuff here and there. PAL seems to have been a barrier to British wrestling (and unofficial copies of the IBV/CWA taper releases) reaching a wide audience among American tape readers. French fandom does seem a lot slower off the mark than even British fandom was in getting themselves organised online (it doesn't help that Bob Plantin won't let other people post videos/photos or widen topics of discussion on his FB page). There are definitely some matches out there not in the INA's collection - these on Bob ALPRA's channel for instance: as well as this of the young Marc Mercier on the FFCP YouTube channel (and missing as far as I can see from @Matt D's 1970-1987 playlist, you might like to add it, Matt!): (Update: it seems to be in there now. Perhaps my Find In Page searcher wasn't picking it up, in which case please accept my apologies Matt.) And of course there is this previously posted bout footage, for the existence of which no one has a satisfactory explanation: it's clearly not the EWF who did New Catch and it looks a lot like FR3 matches from 1987: Incidentally there are quite a few British bouts no one seems to have (except maybe ITV under lock and key) even though they were well into the 1980s. I've been wanting to watch the Masked Marauders Vs Colin Bennett and Eddie Riley from 1983 since I was 9 (Dad dragged us out swimming that Saturday) but no one seems to have a copy for some reason. There are probably quite a lot of resources in peoples cupboards and drawers over there- match results (possibly shared by correspondence/newsletter) as well as private records of transmission details/TV results etc. Perhaps there is some French @JNLister out there who could upload their TV info to a website or has access to a media library with a collection of Tele Guide. There 's also one important point we're missing about FR3 who transmitted Aug 1985-Nov 1987 - the R stood for Regions, it was a network of 15 regional TV stations, not unlike ITV albeit state owned. A lot of programming was not syndicated fully across the network and it would have been difficult for the INA to catch much of it if it was patchily syndicated - on such and such local FR3s at so-and-so different times. (A similar issue exists with the 1990 ITV tapings from Scotland which were shown on Grampian and STV in a late evening slot and then some time later in an early hours graveyard slot by Granada, but no other ITV regions.)

But as far as that blog post goes, this guy seems to have latched on to that wretched Seins Nus match like it was Roger Delaporte 's most infamous "achievement". Leaving aside the different social mores in France, and the fact that by the late 70s Antenne 2 - unlike ITV ever but like S4C and Eurosport - had no qualms about putting women's wrestling on TV, it was hardly a big deal even within the context of FFCP in the early 80s. If he'd complained instead about the somewhat ludicrous characters like Mambo and his posse, Les Piranhas and Les Maniaks - and that this aspect remains a central element of both major promotions of Catch Francais 35-40 years later-he might have had a case.

Why would the INA have taped it every time it was on? We know there was at least some more because (1) we have some other dates (2) some INA tapes join in progress and one or two cut out suddenly in progress. We also know it was on consecutive weeks either side of the jump from Antenne 2 to FR3 in August 1985. 10:30pm really wasn't that bad a timeslot. Earlier than SNME in America (and that was hardly a weekly occurrence either)and equal to the ITV midweek show by the mid 70s. We know from some clips there was a big news broadcast straight afterwards without an advert break in-between (just like the football results straight after the wrestling slot on World of Sport) They both had their blights (Big Daddy in Britain and the overall cartoonish gimmick-ridden culture in France) but it's clear a lot of good stuff was still going on in both. We need to know more about Eurostars and its TV platform but it was clearly doing good business to be able to do a TV taping in FYR Macedonia before a packed house much of it being young kids. I don't think promotions in a tailspin would spend money on fripperies for gimmicks like Mambo Le Primitiv either - entire troupes of chanting dancing bongo-bashing "natives" clearly don't come cheap. I think the production values on Mike Archer era ITV were pretty good. As good as ITV and BBC boxing in the 80s/90s and far in advance of studio wrestling in most US territories. The footage even looks better filmed and lit than most 1980s WWF arena broadcasts (on Prism, MSG Network etc) particularly when you compare them to early 1979s broadcasts and see how little they advanced. Only the WWF PPVs and SNME are clearly better looking than Mike Archer era ITV. Indeed not, both- plus Germany/Austria - are still alive in 2024, 23.25 years after the last US territory other than New York (and Puerto Rico if you must) sputted out.

Funny moment at 20:30 of the Barons' French bout against Corne and Falempin. Blonde female film actress is guest commentator, admits on air that it's her first ever live wrestling show! Just like Cathy Lee Crosby at WrestleMania 2 in 1986!!! LOL. #cestmonpremierfois

Sounds like the author has been reading the Wikipedia article - and possibly this thread. I've noticed the French do seem to have a different attitude about female toplessness than other nations. (eg on beaches). Even Orig Williams never dared breach this taboo on Reslo while he was giving many UK lady wrestlers their only TV exposure on S4C. However the audience watching the bout in Les Gens Sont Mechants don't seem like a bunchy of dirty old Vieux Pontoufles - they just look like the same mixed- society audience that sit at ringside on French TV cheering les Bons and booing Les Mechants. Generally in Britain the likes of Mitzi Mueller and Klondyke Kate fought long and hard to throw off the sexploitation tag and be the equivalent kind of heroines and villainesses that their male counterparts played to equally respectable audiences . The same can be said of the French female matches that made it to TV in the late 70s and 80s. (Kate made it to France with Eurosport and got to battle Gaby Laillie in front of the cameras in 1989. I agree with the last part, the two territories underwent similar developments in the last two decades of the C20th. However similar myths seem to have grown up in both countries about the fate of local wrestling in these past 40 years. As we have already seen on here, the migration from A2 to FR3 took place in August 1985 and there were broadcasts a week apart either side of the jump. Also as with Britain in 1988, it was TV coverage of wrestling that ended in late 1987, (or rather 1988 taking into account the TF1 preview episodes of New Catch) not French Wrestling itself which demonstrably carried on. It is wrong - and a blatant malicious lie - to suggest that there was a situation like with WCW in 2001 where Jamie Kellner pulling the plug immediately killed stone dead the promotion - and with it, decades of Southern US Rasslin' culture. British wrestling survived Greg Dyke's big song and dance cancellation of ITV wrestling and French wrestling survived the quieter shuffling off of it from A2 to FR3 to TF1 to Eurosport to whatever platform Eurostars broadcasts on. It also wasn't on that late either, 10:30pm is the same as ITVs midweek wrestling slot up to the mid 70s and quite often with a main news bulletin straight afterwards. There also seems to have been some sort of Sunday 5pm slot (we know this from the speaking clock tracks on some INA tapes) which explains the child audiences on some bouts. This sounds VERY much like he's been on here! I think the writer confuses what is held in the INA with what was actually broadcast. The INA was set up in 1975. Prior to that it holds RTF's stock of b/w overseas sales films 1955-1974 (plus one lucky surviving colour transmission tape from January 1969.) From 1975 onwards a sample of broadcasts were recorded off air by INA (probably on U-Matic and later on VHS/Beta). We have matches in better quality with no INA stamp and some where no INA copy exists but another source eg Bob ALPRA does. Also some INA recordings cut in or cut out mid broadcast. So clearly more was screened than the INA holds. This Sturry guy sounds like an Alex Shane or Fin Martin out to kill off the "antiquated" unsmart Old School by diverting new talent away to an Americanised New School (generic American indie wrestling relocated to Europe). They didn't succeed in the UK and I doubt they will in France either. Here in Britain, you only have to look at the DVD of 2006 ROH/1PW/FOH "supershow" Frontier of Honour 2 where the main feature is dwarfed not only for quality but for audience size and class of venue - by an Easter Egg of a clean match pitting Nigel McGuinness Vs Johnny Kidd on a show at Worthing Pier Pavilion by oldest school of old school promotions Premier! Come to that, the average 2024 showing by Rumble on their YouTube channel makes FOH2 look puny by comparison. I imagine the same is true of ICWA in France and it's attempts to destroy WS and FFCP. *************** At some stage I will get on that page and leave some comments of a similar nature to the above.

@ohtani's jacket I've just found a couple more bits of Greek footage on the same YouTube channel as the first of those three clips First up there is a movie clip from a 1984 film. Second up is this compilation of wrestling/strongman act footage of George Tromaras. What's particularly interesting is that the wrestling footage looks particularly high budget except for being in b/W. The ring looks very much like a British ring and there is a full camera crew filming the bout (you can see other crew members in shot.) The match footage is watermarked ATV. Who was that? (Surely no connection to Associated Television in the UK up to 1982? ). The letters A/Alpha and T/Tau are common to the Greek and Latin alphabets but there is no V in Greek unless it's actually a capital Upsilon which looks like a Latin capital Y and they've not given it much of a stem. Either way I'd like to know what ATV/ATY was. I've looked on Wikipedia but can't find any mention of a channel called ATV in Greece. The nearest thing is Antenne 1 but its acronym is ANT1 not ATV and it was launched 31st December 1989. Old school Greek Wrestling died out in 1991 yet the scene in those ATV shots looks in healthier condition than the 1987 videos. George Tromaras seems to have been quite the celeb judging by the clip, doubling as a strongman and wrestler like Hercules Cortez, Otto Wanz and to some extent Shirley Crabtree during his 1960s Blond Adonis years. (Most likely Cortez inspired the other three although strongman/GR Wrestler crossovers were a staple of circuses in the 1800s. The channel is owned by Konstantin Tromaras, presumably some relative of his.

Another modern classic from Jordan Breaks. This time against Nino Bryant's youngest brother Leland. Notice Jordan's use of Ken Joyce's old trick of preventing a slingshot or posting by dropping down to a sitting position:

You're welcome. There was also a tag bout early 1968 in Leamington Spa - McMichael and Clements "The Yorkshire Terriers" Vs The Royal Brothers. So that makes 8 total.

I was remiss in not noting that in the 1990s as camcorders became commonplace there were also plenty of dodgy single handheld fan-cams of CWA matches, as with every other promotion on the planet Incidentally that's Mick McMichael refereeing. Conversely, there is also the VDB 1998 taping we discussed a few pages back (Marty Jones Vs Danny Royal, Mike Zrno Vs Danny Collins, Drew McDonald Vs Tony StClair) which is professionally filmed and looks and feels for all the world like a British taping circa 1985. However when it comes to earlier, 1980s German footage, the IBV/CWA is the well filmed multicam stuff and the VDB the shaky single handheld jobs.

Have also updated the CWA page on Wikipedia to incorporate the IBV and Nico Selenkowitsch. You might want to pass this back to the bloke on the German forum, see what he reckons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_Wrestling_Association

Apparently there were another three McMichael-Faulkner bouts: Feb 1971 Doncaster one fall contest Vic won Oct 1971 Morecambe result unknown 1975 Bradford result unknown I'm guessing the two result unknowns wee 1-1 Broadways! @JNLister the bout with the white ring apron and the bad audio was Bridlington August 1983 (same TV taping as Honey Boy Zimba Vs Steve Lanegan). You might wish to add the video to your 1983 page.

Have copied and pasted the entire piece to the talk pages of the English Wikipedia articles for the CWA and VdB

Bumping this review up and adding the 1972 bout video so we can see what their work together was like overall. As I have said, the short match is somewhat rushed and overstuffed for it's duration but the other three bouts show us two skilled wrestlers who expressed their sportsmanship and bonhomie through banter and humour but did Not veer into outright comedy matches, with the skill remaining the prime focus. You admire their work nut you also wouldn't mind joining these guys for a few rounds of cards or dominoes in the pub one night.

Have found another couple of TV bouts they had besides the rather rushed above bout and the 1972 bout found on b/W film. Much more room for the bout to breathe in these than the short bout, you get a better feel for their technical abilities in these two and '72 also.

He doesn't exactly make it easy does he? To be honest it's very hard to take apart the Wikipedia page for the CWA since all the sources called it that.(Verifiability Not Truth and all that.) It seems to me (and correct me if I'm wrong). that IBV is what people are referring to when they talk of the CWA- the promotion with the big ring with white ropes, blue or dark grey mat, covered in logos of sponsoring companies, gong instead of a bell. featuring Otto and a load of visiting Americans, filmed very professionally by a multi camera crew for home video. While the VBD are the Other lot, smaller ring, a lot like Britain, lots of Joint Promotions mid careers on the bill, also quite a few older Germans like Axel Dieter, filmed badly with a single handheld camcorder.

Jim Cornette seemed impressed recently with the enthusiastic chanting French audiences at Backlash France. I sent him a potted history of French fan chants. We'll see if he and Brian read it out.