Mantaur Rodeo Clown

Short and sweet: How much weight are you giving to professional wrestlers who wrestle a style out of touch with their era? There are plenty of examples, but I'll use two specific ones: 1. FTR Very clearly, Dax Harwood and Cash Wheeler wrestle a throwback style, and owe an incredible debt to the 1980s JCP-era tag team wrestling. Although they are good wrestlers in their own right and have added various things to the formula, they essentially would not have an act without that foundation. It is buoyed by the fact that no one wrestles like this anymore. Does this hurt or harm their case? Would they have been as successful in a different era, and do you hold this against them? 2. Joshi Just choose a name out of a hat. There are countless women who were doing things in AJW in 1985 that male wrestlers still wouldn't be able to do 20 years later. How much weight do you give wrestlers for pushing the boundaries of what professional wrestling was? Would those same wrestlers have been able to work that style and been A successful if they instead had to run shows in say Kansas City for Central States Wrestling? There are wrestlers that seem like they stepped out of a time machine, whether forwards or backwards. Perhaps one day we will speak of Will Ospreay or Logan Paul the same way. Or perhaps in 2040 a wrestler will make it big by imitating Brock Lesnar. How does a wrestler's congruence or incongruence with the style of their peers affect how you see them?

ty ty ❤️ Masami gains some points just on her singing ability alone. Miles ahead of most other joshi.

Does anyone have a link to the full Masami/Nagayo match on 8/22/85? Sadly only the clipped version from the AJW TV show seems to be online

The term you're looking for is "exception to the rule".

He's very good, but I really need to see him have a proper main event run before deciding where to really rank him. The tag team with Sting was a cute little attraction and probably beneficial for Darby's health in the long run, but it's time for him to show what he can do as a true singles performer. Knowing AEW, he'll continue to be booked in garbage 10 man slop matches for the next 6 months and wasted.

Against all odds, has added to his case since 2021. God bless human growth hormone. Orton of course, by virtue of never trying all that hard, has a style that he could continue to wrestle for another 15 years. He might lose a couple inches off the dropkick. Whether he wants to do it is another thing, but he could add another few good matches to his resume by the time 2031 rolls around.

He just keeps on trucking. The highs are high, the lows are beyond low. At this point his resume is so extensive he almost has to get a look in somewhere on the list. WWE Vault's upload of his ladder match with HBK is a great reminder of just how sharp he could be on his day, and how much potential was wasted by his drug abuse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGPZ-t7J3b4

I still have a good giggle to myself remembering when he debuted in NXT, ran back to TNA lured by promises of a big Beer Money reunion, and then Roode ditched him and took his spot in NXT instead. Decent enough wrestler, but never showed enough ambition that he wanted to do anything besides be a solid tag guy. If he was born 20 years earlier, I think he'd have a better shot at making the list.

I agree that trying to gauge a wrestler's ability to entertain a mythical "aggregate" fan is difficult. But it is a clear marker of a wrestler's quality if they are able to entertain a wide range of audiences and continually have them invested in your matches (Flair is over in the NWA, he's over in WWF, he's over in Japan, he's over in Puerto Rico). If a wrestler never leaves their comfort zone in front of an audience they've worked many times before, be it the American Legion Hall in Reseda, the Asylum on Lister Street in Glasgow or the Thornbury Theatre in Melbourne, then it can and should be held against them. Their ability to capture different crowds in different eras should be a credit to them, and can be used to aid your decision making, in addition to who you personally like. There needs to be at least SOME reference points or criteria outside of picking your favourites, or else the discussion simply isn't as interesting.

I mean the answer to the question is plainly writ if you just look at even the top 25 or so of the 2016 list: 25) Barry Windham 24) Steve Austin 23) Shinya Hashimoto 22) Negro Casas 21) William Regal 20) Tatsumi Fujinami 19) Arn Anderson 18) Randy Savage 17) Bret Hart 16) Nick Bockwinkel 15) Ricky Steamboat 14) Vader 13) Genichiro Tenryu 12) Eddie Guerrero 11) Jumbo Tsuruta 10) Jerry Lawler 9) Toshiaki Kawada 8 ) Kenta Kobashi 7) Rey Mysterio Jr. 6) Jushin Liger 5) Daniel Bryan 4) Mitsuharu Misawa 3) Stan Hansen 2) Terry Funk 1) Ric Flair You won't be shocked to discover that barring one or two exceptions, all the top picks were also all main-event level players at one time or another in the biggest wrestling promotions in the world. Even Regal was about to get a main event run before he wellness'd himself. It turns out that truly great pro wrestlers like making money and wrestling in front of big crowds full of hot fans, and will work throughout their career to make that happen. What are the circumstances where someone who has the ability of a Top 100 GWE decides to just work in front of 30 people for peanuts for their entire career as a matter of choice? That simply doesn't exist.

First of all: Katzuhori? lol what? This thread was made in 2014, it's not like Shibata was some rookie who had just appeared. He hasn't really added to his case during his time in AEW. Some fine matches, but nothing to blow your socks off. Everyone of course will say "it's such a shame about the injury, it robbed him of some good years!" as if it is a bug, not a feature. When your style is actually kicking the shit out of people and them kicking the shit out of you, it's par for the course. Not exactly the most versatile worker of all time. But it's hard to argue with the heights he touched from 2013-2017. He'll be on the list, but somewhere lower.

No. "Makabe is a self taught backyard wrestler..." yes, I have eyes. I can see that. Benefits from the low-expectations of indies. If I paid my 10 bucks and saw this guy in a gym in front of 50 other people, I'm sure I would pleasantly surprised and he'd probably be one of the best workers on the show. His act is fairly clean and he avoids a lot of pitfalls that other indie workers fall into. But come on, top 100 of all time? The guy is clearly a competent amateur. It honestly not fair on the guy to put him in those conversations.

It's been four years since the last post in this thread, and I still haven't seen a good argument for why Flair shouldn't be considered Top 5 of all time at worst. One of the most complete packages in wrestling history, and has remained in high esteem despite having his career picked apart and scrutinized more closely than nearly anyone else in contention.

Impossible challenge: Pro wrestling forum poster doesn't draw extremely long bow to make 8th-grade level point about "SOCIETY, MAN" and attempt to tie it back to wrestling. I'm almost shocked you didn't make a McDonalds analogy there. Besides being a questionable analogy in the first place, has absolutely nothing to do with Gunther's ability as a wrestler and status as one of the modern greats who has risen to the top of his field.

I mean it's the problem with compiling a list like this in the first place. Where would Andre the Giant rank if he was just losing the opening match on every card in three minutes? Booking and perception can be impossible to separate, we just do the best we can. I think the counter-argument is that only Brock would be accepted with this sort of booking, due to the unique physical and reputational qualities he possesses. Because no one else in pro wrestling history has ever gone to win a UFC title after their WWE debut. While it doesn't strictly make him a better pro wrestler, it undeniably adds to his aura. Hence why Lesnar was really the best option for ending the streak. As I've said before, many people have been handed the keys to the kingdom and given big wins. But few have had the impact of Brock. How many "passing the torch" moments did Reigns need to get over, 8? 9? Booking is a big part of things, but it isn't everything. Lesnar clearly has a way of connecting with fans that an overwhelming majority of other workers in the history of the business do not. Whether that's his great looking offense, his tremendous selling or something else entirely, is up for discussion.

You know, for all this thread's talk about how big an influence Benoit was, I can't seem to find anyone in the modern wrestling scene that comes close to approaching his level of intensity in the ring. Even ignoring dubious claims like PWG wouldn't exist without Benoit (lmao), I assumed someone supposedly so influential would have multiple people aping his hard-nosed style. Perhaps someone like Dragunov would be his modern analog, but even that does not seem quite right. I'm open to suggestion.

One of the best looks in professional wrestling. Pretty decent on the stick, could be led to a good match in the ring. His RAW match with Martel a favorite. But his true strength was his squash matches. He really perfected the RAW squash match down to a science: the entrance, something happen to his gold chico..., the toothpick flick, the mat-wrestle and head slap, the abdominal stretch, chokeslam, the sack of shit, the career-ender, FINISH, and remember to tuck your chin brother. The WWF didn't want nor did it need him to be out there wrestling for 30 minutes each night, it needed him to squash people for 4 minutes at a time. And he was one of the best in the biz at doing it. Clearly also one of the smartest and most influential wrestlers of his generation in terms of character, and what he did for the business. Is it enough to crack the top 100? Probably not. But he was a big star in the business for a reason, one that isn't necessarily always reflected in Cagematch rankings or WON reports, and I think he was a lot better than other posters have given him credit for.

No. The Big Show is not a good wrestler, and despite being given what seemed like dozens of chances over his lengthy career, never truly got his act over.

The four pillars cosplay stuff for me is tolerable at best, and actually laughable at its worst. It's an example of where AEW could use better road agents, who can tell him to cut that shit out. Because when Kingston has an opponent that plays to his actual strengths, he's very good. He also happens to be possibly the best promo of the past 20 years.

Easily one of the best 100 wrestlers in the world. Just a shame he had to cripple himself to do it. Out, out, brief candle. That RAW '97 match vs HBK is doing the rounds on social media again, what a fantastic little TV match it is. Each year we have more wrestlers destroy their bodies in death matches and hardcore extravaganzas, but not one of them has come close to evoking the pathos or sense of humanity that Foley brought to his matches. It's not real violence if the audience doesn't feel it along with you. Foley understood this, and killed himself to make the fans feel it.

Curious to see if he will add anything to his legacy in this run. I doubt it, as he will likely only work against "big" names who are unambitious, can't work, or both. But they wasted a decade of having the best monster wrestler in the history of the business, so what's wasting a couple more years and millions of dollars? He's in my top 100 regardless. The man cannot cut a promo. He's got vast gaps in his resume and worked far fewer matches than most people. His matches became annoyingly one note and lazy. But physically the man has more innate talent than most other wrestlers in history, and as much as he hates pro wrestling, he also understand the business more than most. Has his insane booking helped? Of course. But thousands of wrestlers have been given big pushes in history, and very few ever became the spectacle that Brock Lesnar was and still is to this day. WWE babyfaces in the 2010s could almost be defined by their Brock matches. Brock as an adjective for a type of match that he has clearly mastered. This last(?) run will really only decide placement.

Look, if it was any other wrestler I could go along with that and blame poor booking. But this is the guy that was the face of the company for two decades and one of their biggest draws. He absolutely has enough pull backstage to pretty much book himself however he wants. (Bringing back Brock as an opponent as an example, which he absolutely signed off on). I'm not saying it's the easiest thing in the world, even Austin couldn't get them to really hate him in '01. But after one of the hottest heel turns in recent memory, I just haven't seen enough in-ring or character-wise from Cena to add to his case. So we really only have his midcard heel act from 2003 to support his case as a versatile wrestler

He'll be in my top 100. Even ignoring the fact he is one of the most influential wrestlers of his generation, he's a very good wrestler. Was one of the best juniors in the world for a couple of years before heading to the fed, where they obviously value his character work and generosity far more. He does suffer from Orton disease, where his later matches have never really gotten out of second gear. Low ceiling, high floor kind of guy. Absolute consistency, perfect for steering a midcard. Off the top of my head, his match with PAC that got them signed, his match with Kenny, his match with Low Ki, Ibushi rivalry, matches with Tanahashi, Okada and Gedo, Joe matches, Kyle O'Reilly NXT match and Lesnar match all show a great deal of his peaks and ability to work different styles. Unless he has a Mutoh type renaissance, I can't see him adding too much in his final years

I have to disagree in Cena's case, because it shows he lacks understanding in the craft of professional wrestling, despite now doing it for a quarter of a century. No one in his position, with that much experience and that much creative freedom, should have a long-awaited heel run go that poorly. If you're one of the 100 greatest wrestlers of all time, you should be able to play both a heel and a face (or be Ricky Steamboat). So while any bad matches he might have won't detract, the fact that he's finally supposed to be working a different style/character after 22 years and is flopping DOES detract.

I mean just going off your description of WWE, it's clear you have some teenage angst-y axe to grind against it and I'm clearly not going to change your opinion on it. The fact of the matter is that being able to adapt your style and work in any promotion and get over anywhere is a marker of a great wrestler. If you can't get over even in a "remarkably narrow" situation, you probably aren't one of the 100 Greatest Wrestlers Ever. There are plenty of wrestlers who were over in the American Legion Hall in Reseda. But can you get a crowd invested at Smackdown house show in Corpus Christi? I do not understand what you are trying to say.