"Stuff Dave Might Have Saw Live"

[khawk20]

This thread is borne out of a conversation between Dylan and Dave on Dave's board concerning The High Flyers and what Dave thought of them. Some of Dave's answers are based on him seeing them live.

 

First, the San Francisco AWA cards I found courtesy of Clawmaster's Results Archive. From these records, it seems the AWA did not appear there until 1982. Here are the cards featuring Gagne and Brunzell in tag action:

 

6/19/82 San Francisco, CA @ Cow Palace

Handicap Match

Hulk Hogan beat Nick Bockwinkel & Bobby Heenan

AWA Tag Team Champions Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Jerry Blackwell & Sheik Adnan

Ken Patera beat Ray Stevens dq

Pat Patterson beat Alexis Smirnoff

Princess Victoria & Sabrina beat Joyce Grable & Wendi Richter

Sgt. Goulet beat Buck Zumhofe

 

These teams would have had a pretty nice match ready to go at this point, since they has been at it throughout the AWA for several months at this stage of their feud.

 

 

8/26/82 San Francisco, CA @ Cow Palace

AWA Tag Team Champions Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Tito Santana & Rick Martel

Ken Patera & Bobby Duncum & Jesse Ventura beat Baron Von Raschke & Otto Wanz & Buck Zumhofe

Pat Patterson & Ray Stevens beat Bobby Heenan & Sheik Adnan

Adrian Adonis & Sgt. Goulet beat Brad Rheingans & Jerry Monti

 

Dave speaks of this in his reply to Dylan and notes Santana and Martel looked like the better, more cohesive team. I have a hard time buying that. Patterson and Stevens on the card would likely have reminded him of what a top tag team "should" look like, so maybe he was comparing the Flyers and the Stevens/Patterson combo subconciously.

 

3/5/83 San Francisco, CA @ Cow Palace

Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell & Mad Dog Vachon beat Sgt. Goulet & Jerry Blackwell & Sheik Adnan

Hulk Hogan beat Jesse Ventura dq

Wahoo McDaniel ddq Ken Patera

Jerry Lawler beat John Tolos

Buck Zumhofe beat Guy Lambert

 

Curious 6-man with Goulet being a total throw-in from what I can gather.

 

7/16/83 San Francisco, CA

AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel beat Wahoo McDaniel dq

Mad Dog Vachon beat Jerry Blackwell dq

Jim Brunzell & Greg Gagne & Rick Martel beat Ken Patera & Bobby Heenan & Jerry Blackwell

 

Heenan was likely subbing for Kaissie here (same match with Kaissie in over Heenan ran in St. Paul later) but it doesn't specifically note that.

 

11/26/83 San Francisco, CA

AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel beat Mad Dog Vachon

Special Referee: Ray Stevens

Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat AWA Tag Team Champions Ken Patera & Jerry Blackwell dq

att: 3,500

 

Probably the identical card that ran on Thanksgiving night in St. Paul, of which there is video on.

 

12/26/83 San Francisco, CA

Ray Stevens & Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell & Mad Dog Vachon beat Mr. Saito & Jerry Blackwell & Ken Patera & Sheik Adnan

Rick Martel beat Billy Graham

Buck Zumhofe beat Bobby Heenan

att: 3,000

 

They ran a bunch of these 8-man tags around Christmas that year.

 

 

Nothing with Gagne and Brunzell teaming together after that in San Fran, which the AWA ran card in until May of 1985.

 

So, in terms of regular tag team matches, there are only 3 he would have seen live. The rest are 6-man-plus. The other cards I looked at had some singles bouts with Brunzell and Gagne here and there.

 

Dave would have had more exposure to the High Flyers via the AWA TV airing in that market...very squash-heavy TV.

 

I have a lot of AWA results for Oakland beginning in 1981. Would Dave have seen those cards too? If he would have, I will post them here. I assume he may have seen them in Oakland since he speaks of seeing the Flyers vs. Adonis and Ventura, although that could have been arena tape as opposed to live matches.

 

The High Flyers had some very good matches against The Sheik's army in 1982 and 83, and their St. Paul bouts vs. Martel and Santana were excellent as well. Given the time frames, it's safe to assume the matches seen in the Twin Cities and those in San Fran would have been quite similar.

 

Dave's comments don't necessarily dis the Flyers (his crediting of Greg Gagne as an underrated worker is somewhat surprising, though not as much as his criticism of Brunzell as not being very believable is), but I question whether in this case, seeing the Flyers out of their home market (Twin Cities area for starters), did not do them any favours in how they have been remembered by him. Home turf is home turf, after all.

[Dylan Waco]

Oakland should be included as he almost certainly went to those shows.

 

Funny how the Flyers are in featured matches on all of these shows but Dave seemed very dismissive of the idea that they were featured performers for the company.

[khawk20]

First card (courtesy of Clawmaster) I found for Oakland in 1981 was in March. I didn't look to see any cards from 79 or 80 yet, although the Flyers were not as active in that stretch so they may not be relvant anyways.

 

5/2/81 Oakland, CA

AWA Champion Verne Gagne beat Jerry Blackwell

Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Nick Bockwinkel & Bobby Heenan

The Crusher beat Jesse Ventura

Ray Stevens beat Adrian Adonis

Baron Von Raschke beat John Studd

Tito Santana beat Guy Lambert

Pepper Gomez beat Jerry Monti

 

Similar to Winnipeg, I would guess this was a #1 contenders match, winner to get Ventura and Adonis in a title match on the next lor a future card.

From here, Adonis and Ventura went into a 2-3 bout feud with Stevens and Patterson.

 

 

8/20/81 Oakland, CA

AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel beat Pat Patterson COR

AWA Tag Team Champions Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Adrian Adonis & Jesse Ventura

Tito Santana drew Sheik Adnan

Ray Stevens beat Jerry Blackwell

Handicap Match

Hulk Hogan beat Frankie Cain & Don Stevenson

 

Gagne and Brunzell have to defend the titles instead of challenge for them. Both matches are standard from around the AWA horn, with Stevens in for Heenan in the Winnipeg version of the contenders bout.

 

10/1/81 Oakland, CA

Adrian Adonis & Jesse Ventura beat AWA Tag Team Champions Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell

Pat Patterson & Hulk Hogan beat Jerry Blackwell & Nick Bockwinkel

Tito Santana beat Sheik Adnan

Buck Zumhofe beat Bobby Heenan dq

Baron Von Raschke beat Guy Lambert

 

12/10/81 Oakland, CA

AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel beat Tito Santana

Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell & Hulk Hogan beat Jerry Blackwell & Adrian Adonis & Jesse Ventura

Judy Martin beat Joyce Grable

Ken Patera beat Buck Zumhofe

Bobby Heenan beat Roger Kirby

 

3/18/82 Oakland, CA

AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel beat Pat Patterson

Ken Patera & Bobby Duncum & Bobby Heenan beat Hulk Hogan & Tito Santana & Buck Zumhofe

Non Title

Jerry Blackwell & Sheik Adnan beat AWA Tag Team Champions Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell

Brad Rheingans beat Sgt. Goulet

 

The premise of the non-title stip was that another team pulled out and there were no "ranked' teams for the Flyers to wrestle, so Karbo asks Gagne and Brunzell to do him a favour and meet these guys in a match. Flyers agree to non-title, Flyers lose, get really mad that suddenly this unproven team were the number one contenders, and the series develops from there.

 

5/6/82 Oakland, CA @ Coliseum

Hulk Hogan beat AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel dq

AWA Tag Team Champions Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Jerry Blackwell & Sheik Adnan

Buck Zumhofe beat Ken Patera when Patera failed to win in 10 minutes

Bobby Heenan beat Baron Von Raschke dq

Tito Santana drew Bobby Duncum

Billy Anderson beat The Alaskan

 

As noted in the San Fran thread, these teams would have had a nice little match going around the horn by this point.

 

9/16/82 Oakland, CA

Pat Patterson & Ray Stevens drew AWA Tag Team Champions Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell

AWA Champion Otto Wanz beat Nick Bockwinkel

Rick Martel beat Ken Patera dq

Jesse Ventura beat Baron Von Raschke

Adrian Adonis beat Buck Zumhofe

 

I'd give up several non-vital organs and a few fingers if I could find this match on tape. Dave MUST have seen this bout. Dylan, ask him sometime if he saw it and if he did, if he had any lasting impressions of it. I would expect if he did see it, his opinion would be that Ray and Pat were awesome and carried the match (and they may have). It goes back to what I noted previously about "home turf" when it comes to seeing matches.

 

1/27/83 Oakland, CA @ Coliseum

AWA Tag Team Champions Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Jerry Blackwell & Sgt. Goulet dq

Jesse Ventura no contest Mad Dog Vachon

Ken Patera beat Rick Martel

Wahoo McDaniel beat Bobby Duncum

Baron Von Raschke beat Bobby Heenan

 

Okay, this explains Goulet in the 6-man a month later in San Fran a bit as it looks like Goulet subbed for Adnan.

 

3/16/85 Oakland, CA

If Blackwell wins, Jerry gets 5 minutes with Sheik Adnan

Jerry Blackwell beat King Tonga dq when Adnan & Masked Superstar interfered

AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Nick Bockwinkel (sub Jim Garvin)

Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Nick Bockwinkel & Masked Superstar

Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal

Jerry Monti beat Don Stevenson

att: 3,400

 

This is the first Flyers match in more than a year in California, and would be the last one as well, as Brunzell left for the WWF a little later.

 

Two relevant Adonis-Ventura tag bouts, and the one 6-man. I thought the Winnipeg and Twin Cities matches featuring the Flyers vs. Adonis/Ventura were really good, and. like the series vs. Kaissie and Blackwell, the teams had fought for so long they would have had everything down pat. I can't see the matches there being different than their standard match.

[khawk20]

...oh, and Dylan, don't let Dave EVER see this result or he might not put Patera on the ballot:

 

5/6/82 Oakland, CA @ Coliseum

Hulk Hogan beat AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel dq

AWA Tag Team Champions Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Jerry Blackwell & Sheik Adnan

Buck Zumhofe beat Ken Patera when Patera failed to win in 10 minutes

Bobby Heenan beat Baron Von Raschke dq

Tito Santana drew Bobby Duncum

Billy Anderson beat The Alaskan

 

[Dylan Waco]

I'll have more to say later but the final tally is that the High Flyers were the "on last" main event on 40% of these shows. 40% of the time they were in the semi-main. 20% of the time they were third from the top. In all of these matches they were working top tier guys with the possible (and amusing) exception of the Strike Force tag Dave loved.

[KrisZ]

AWA @ San Francisco, CA – Cow Palace – September 10, 1983

Brad Rheingans d. John Tolos

Baron Von Raschke d. Jay York

The Hi-Flyers d. Blackjack Lanza & Bill White

Bobby Heenan d. Buck Zumhofe

Handicap Match: Hulk Hogan d. Mr. Saito & David Shultz

AWA World Heavyweight Title: Nick Bockwinkel © vs. Mad Dog Vachon

 

Here is the thing though....I know Dave bounced around Texas around 1983-84 so he may have missed some of those shows.

[khawk20]

Interesting in that Lanza was a face by that point:

 

8/18/83 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena

Greg Gagne beat Blackjack Lanza (Lanza turns on Heenan after the match)

 

 

Maybe the turn wasn't shown on their TV yet. It was pretty close to it so they could have kept it under wraps for a bit fairly easily.

 

...to KrisZ's point, knowing how many shows he saw would obviously be huge. If he was skipping close-to-home AWA shows, it likely means that he either wasn't enthralled with the product or he just couldn't ignore the goings-on in Texas he was hearing about and had to check it out for himself.