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Guest EastCoastJ

All apologies for not posting the newsletter lately. I decided to take a few weeks off of on my subscription while I move as I don't have a reliable mailing address. Here's some bits and peices posted by the Torch as of late though:


- Shawn Michaels wanted to have a private in-ring practice session with Hulk Hogan before Summerslam. Hogan turned it down because he said his body can only take so much physical wear and tear at this point in his life and he doesn't want to waste any bumps when it's not for money or in front of a crowd. As a compromise, Hogan worked a dark six-man tag match after Raw in Pittsburgh on Monday with Michaels on the opposing team. This week on Raw, Michaels gave a glimpse of his strategy for wrestling the largely immobile Hogan at Summerslam. He created movement in response to Hogan going through limited motions of throwing him around.


- Besides wanting Michaels to superkick his son, Nick, Hogan also suggested Michaels make desparaging remarks about his daughter. Michaels also turned that idea down.


- The line on Batista right now is that management is protecting him since they feel without Triple H, he is largely lost in the ring (as far as being a top-level player) and in danger of quickly being exposed to fans if he gets too much TV time. Batista, though, is said by everyone to have a great attitude, a desire to learn, and a realistic understanding of his strengths and weaknesses at this point. (Note from John: Guess that's why he wasn't even on SD that one week, eh?)


- Daivari is headed to the Deep South developmental territory in Georgia until he can be repackaged. Tough Enough 4 alums Ryan Reeves, Mike Mizanin, and Nick Mitchell have been working out there recently. Bill DeMott has been running a boot camp like atmosphere there in recent weeks as they work toward running regular TV tapings within a few weeks.


- Regarding the locker room atmosphere, one wrestler says: "Most guys just want to stay healthy, stay under the radar, and not get fired. It's sad that that's what the locker room has come to."


- Saturday Night's Main Event is scheduled to be a RAW brand only series.


- Triple H's biggest challenge personally is balancing his personal and professional relationship with Steph because he disagrees with her A LOT, but has to bite his tongue based on their relationship and the fact that "he does what he does" and "she does what she does" and they have to respect each other's boundaries.


- Triple H and Ric Flair are now scheduled to return to Raw on Oct. 3, the first episode that airs on USA Network.

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Guest EastCoastJ

Torch Talk with Kevin Nash: Part 17 - "The only reason Booker T has made it this

long is because he is black"


Torch Talk with Kevin Nash, pt. 17

Originally Published: August 13, 2005

Torch Newsletter #874


The following is the 17th and final installment of a six-hour "Torch

Talk" with Kevin Nash conducted on March 24. In this installment gives

his thoughts on various people he's crossed paths with from Bobby

Heenan to JBL to Shane Douglas. Plus he talks about referees and ribs

on the road.


Wade Keller: Talk about Bobby Heenan.


Kevin Nash: I thought Jesse (Ventura) was a great color guy, I really

did. I really enjoyed his color growing up. But Heenan had such a

broader range. Heenan is much quicker than Lawler and more cerebral,

more cutting kind of humor. I remember when he left New York and they

threw him out, he had the toilet paper hanging out his ass. I think it

was in White Plains we did it. He walked out the door and I said I

couldn't believe they were letting him go. He just asked for a little

bit more money because WCW had offered Bobby some money. Bobby was

told they couldn't match it. Well, f--- you then. But he did it with

class. He left with class. He had toilet paper hanging out of his ass

and being thrown out of the building. I mean, he left with class. As

an announcer, he did a job going out the door.


Keller: What are your thoughts on Mark Madden?


Nash: A good friend. I think right now he should be working. He's real

cutting edge. Madden's one of those guys who's a heel announcer

because you either love him or hate him. He's just one of those guys

with an opinion on everything. He's not afraid to state his opinion.

It doesn't matter if you're a babyface or heel, he either likes you or

not. The reason he lost his job in WCW is because of his inability to

get along with (Dallas) Page. It was just one of those deals. At the

same time, when Page came out, Madden said, "My God! He's got a

leather mask on! No wait, no he doesn't." He'd say, "Page looks so

old, he should put f---in' baggage claims on for ear rings." I mean,

when he said sh-- like that, it's a top babyface and he's dogging

them. I mean, to me, I love Madden. I went to Pittsburgh with a buddy

of mine and I'll tell you, Madden is over as f--- in Pittsburgh. You

go places and you see people walking over to you and you expect them

to say f--- you, but they're all nice and say hi to Mark. He's a big

celebrity in Pittsburgh. It was good hanging out with him. I've

appreciated him and enjoy his wit and humor.


Keller: How about Kevin Sullivan?


Nash: Really, somebody, if I was in charge of something, I would bring

in. He can generate heat. He doesn't let up on booking heat. Watching

Dusty (Rhodes) book, he books like a babyface. Very little heat. He's

a babyface. Sullivan does the opposite. Beat the f--- out of everybody

and pummel them down and let somebody emerge from the ashes. That's

such a different way to book. Sullivan doesn't get the credit he

should have gotten for the NWO. People on a daily basis tried to make

the NWO give back and he would not allow it to happen.


Keller: Konnan.


Nash: He was a really good friend, then we had some problems when I

took over the book (in WCW). He did the infamous no mas match with

Luger. I put the f---in U.S. belt on him as basically a buddy-system

because he was super over to see if it would click. He was one of

those guys who I thought would pick up his stride, but he left me high

and dry and ended up blasting me and Bischoff in USA Today for the

creative team being the sh--s. It was one of those deals where he's

blasting me. He says, "Well, I didn't mean you." I'm like, "F---,

dude, I'm head of creative and you're blasting creative in USA Today.

That's me!" It's one of those deals where Carlos is Carlos. If

somebody is trying to f--- up Carlos, I wouldn't let anybody hurt him.

You know, I love him to death, but he's his own worst enemy. It is

what it is. He's had a lot of sh-- in his life. When you get to know

these guys and get to know them as multidimensional human beings with

the sh-- they went through on so many different levels, he went

through a lot of sh-- in his life. He was another guy who probably

thought the WCW train wasn't going to stop anytime soon. He didn't get

picked up by the other squad and life got hard for a lot of those

guys, those guys who weren't prepared for that. I love him to death,

but he is who he is. It's the old scorpion sits on a frog, wants to

take a ride across the lake on the frog's back. The frog says, "You

won't f---in' sting me?" Scorpion says, "No, I won't sting you. If I

sting you, you'll die half way across the lake and I'll die, too." The

scorpion stings the frog. The frog says, "Why'd you sting me?"

Scorpion says, "F--, I'm a scorpion, that's what I do." That's Carlos.


Keller: Shane Douglas.


Nash: He had it rough coming in to New York. They gave him a lame gimmick.


Keller: He really clashed with you guys, too.


Nash: Not with me. It was with Scott (Hall) and Sean (Waltman). They

always brought guys in and put them with Sean (at first). I don't know

if he hadn't worked in a while or what, but when he came in, if you

couldn't have a (good) match with Kid, you were f---ed. We were in

Cincinnati at the Cincinnati Gardens, which was a great f---in'

building back in the day. They had a stinker. We came back and we

said, "Kid, what do you think?" He said, "He ain't got it." And he was

f---ed, that was it. If Kid said he ain't got it, then he was f---ed.

He didn't get over with Scott. Scott didn't like the way he worked. He

(Douglas) woke up on the European tour with an injury and said, "I

can't work tonight." Then he wanted to go home on the first bus.

Yoko(zuna) found out he was on the first bus and told him, "Why don't

you go watch f---n' Hunter and Razor work so you know what the f-- to

do?" It was one of those deals where it was the European trip and

everybody got on him and ragged him and he just said, "F--- this



Keller: He was used to being top dog in ECW.


Nash: I tell people this. I told Dallas, "Do not f---in' go up there

by yourself. You don't know what it's like to be in the shark tank.

You have no idea." He's like, "Yeah, bro bro bro bro, I know

everything." And I'm like, "F---in' dude, you don't know dick, okay?

You've been in this biodome for f---in' eight, ten years. You don't

understand, they will eat you alive." He went up there and low and

behold they f---in' ate him alive. They had Sara (Undertaker's wife)

smackin' him around.


Keller: Stay positive!


Nash: (laughs) F--, good luck. Do a rail of meth. He got up there and

got f---ed over. That scarred him. It basically ruined his f---in'

career. He really thinks that's a huge goose egg in his career that he

didn't go up there and get over.


Keller: Why did that not work out? What force was working against him?


Nash: Everything was working against him. Name someone who was on the

Confederate Team that got over with the Union after the merge. I mean,

sh--. They did everything they could possibly do to f---in' kill

everybody from Scott Steiner?the only reason Booker T has made it this

long is because he is black. They bastardized and killed every f---in'

human being that worked for the other company.


Keller: Except John Laurenaitis.


Nash: Yeah, but an amoeba lives wherever. He can live in a petrey dish.


Keller: He politically was seen as a corporate climber the second the

acquisition took place.


Nash: He told (WCW corporate president) Brad Siegel and the rest of

those guys when he came to WCW that all of the top guys were late to

TV and if you put a fine in, we can recoup 30,000 dollars each Monday.

I had a stooge in the room when he said it. I called him out in New

Mexico. I called him out for two hours. I said, "There's Moe, there's

Shemp, and there's you, you f---in' stooge." I dogged him for two

hours and I was supposed to win the belt from Booker T that night. It

was a Nitro, and I went to Bischoff and said, "By the way, I can't

f---in' work because we worked in Albuquerque last night and we had to

drive and I got four hours of sleep because I had to be here at 11:30

a.m. and I don't physically think I can take care of Booker in the

ring, so I won't be able to work tonight. He said, "Go sleep in one of

the f---in' buses." I said, "Nah, that's not in my contract to sleep

on a bus. But thank you anyway. You go ahead and keep your program,

but I'm not going to be able to work tonight. I've already talked to

my agent and he agrees with me." They said f--- and had to rewrite the

show. It was one of those deals where, "Okay, let's see who's got the

bigger d---." Looking back at it now, I wonder, why did I do that? I

guess because I could. On top of that, I did it because nobody else

could. At that time, he would have f---ed everyone over.


Keller: Bradshaw? Are you surprised at the level he's at now?


Nash: To a degree, yeah. But at the same time, it's good to see that a

good guy ends up on top. I think he's a real good guy. He's always

been good to me. He's intelligent. I've heard people say he's a bully

and all that. I'm 6-10, 300, he wasn't going to bully me. He was nice

to me. You'll hear half the wrestling community say the fact that he's

been on top for a year shows how sh--y the talent depth is.


Keller: There's truth to that. If Brock Lesnar was around or Kurt

Angle was 100 percent healthy, JBL would not have had the chance. But,

I don't think a year ago people would have thought if Brock and Angle

were taken out of the mix, that JBL would have made the top ten list

of their replacement who would hold the Smackdown title for ten

months. Nobody would have included him in their top ten.


Nash: The smart thing they did is they didn't hotshot and move that

belt around. Now, you know what, when somebody beats him, it means

something. They did the smart thing. They knew they had nobody who was

over, so let's make time get somebody over. That's what they used to

do back in the day.


Keller: If somebody would have taken Vince Russo and explained that to

him, things might have been different.


Nash: (Exasperated) F---! When David Arquette won the belt, all the

times I had won the WCW belt just went out the window. That belt

absolutely meant nothing.


Keller: Russo's defense is, hey, look at the circumstances. It was a

total fluke. It was a tag match. He just walked into the ring and made

the cover. He didn't really beat anybody.


Nash: Nope. Nope. Nope. It was wrong because of all the guys who went

up and down the road for all of those years and banged around and

wished they could get a heavyweight title match, let alone a belt. For

them, that to me was, talk about a downfall of the business. And it's

not like Clint Eastwood won it. It was a guy who was in Eight Legged

Freaks. I would have rather put over Courtney Cox. At least she's



Keller: Paul Heyman?


Nash: I don't really know Paul.


Keller: How about from a distance as a student of the game looking at

his contribution?


Nash: I respect what he did. Especially, from listening to Dreamer,

learning what they had to work with. I have a lot of respect for Tommy

for that. That whole group of guys, it was a real special breed of

guys. They did it more for the love than the money. That's so

unbusiness compared to the modern era now, especially with guys who

take the paycheck and don't watch the matches back and play f---in'

videogames instead. To that group of guys, guys like Sabu and Raven

and Shane, plus Jericho and Benoit and Eddie?all the guys we robbed

(from ECW) that made that show happen, we stole from Paul. They had a

great chemistry. They basically shot an angle at the beginning of the

show with the NWO, then they talked about it through great matches

until the end of the show. And they used those guys as the car crash

to keep everybody's attention. And they were. They gave 'em something

they had never seen before. That middleweight where we had f---in'

(Ultimo) Dragon and Rey and Eddie and Dean and Chris (Benoit). F---!

We had ten guys who could go. There were four matches a night that

you'd sit in the locker room and go "f---!"


Keller: Does that reconcile very early on in this interview about how

wrestlers can't look like their gardener on steroids? You are giving

tremendous, and I think deserved, credit to them not being the drawing

card, but the meat that kept people's attention.


Nash: Absolutely. It was what it was. Some of the guys just say that

those guys were garnish. I'm like, yeah, garnish the filet mignon.

Anybody that was there that didn't appreciate them, huh? I don't care

what anybody said, there was a two year period where that was probably

the greatest crew of workers in the business. Ever. It was before

everyone had the 19 injuries they've got now. Juvi, Chavo, Kidman,

Psicosis, there were so many guys. Konnan, too. Okay, this is a great

Konnan story. Everybody knows he's a f---in' dog. He's just a dog. So

we got to San Angelo, Texas and it's me and f---in' Konnan against

Psicosis and La Parka. It's a straight Latino crowd. Ten thousand,

eight thousands, whatever, it's sold out in the afternoon. I go in

there and ask, "What do you want to do?" He says, "Just come in on the

comeback." Konnan goes out there and f---in' works and it's like

somebody took over his body. He went out there and lucha libre'd like

crazy. I told him, "I understand why you were over in Mexico. You can

actually go if somebody f---in' shoots adrenaline into your heart, you

f---in' lazy prick!" He went out and tore the house down and handed me

the driest, coldest tag (laughs). I said, "Okay, I got it, you can go

if you want to. F---, you're been sitting around for four years like a

slug. Good for you, man."


Keller: Here's a question out of left field. Did you ever care which

referees worked your matches? Was there a difference, or were they

just there? Nobody ever asks about that.


Nash: Yeah. I remember when Joey (Morella) died. I think he should be

considered for the Hall of Fame. He was a great referee. Okay,

Gorilla's gone. When does Joey qualify? That was another one that

crushed me and Scott. Joey did a ton of our matches. Baby Earl is

good, but Kyote is better. You get a better false finish with Kyote

back in the day. I never liked Nick Patrik's counts. It was too slow.

It was hard to get a false finish. But he was real good if you needed

a storyline out of somewhere, Nick was the guy you had to go to

because he had the ability to carry storylines. It was weird. To me,

the referees have strong points and weak points. Mark Johnson, the

bald headed guy, was at our last TV. He has an energy to him. You know

what I mean? There's a hyper energy from him that was refreshing. He's

a little more animated and over the top compared to what we have. He

stands out. He stands out more than the matches.


Keller: How about Brian Hildebrand?


Nash: God, he was the NWO referee underneath the hood. He was great.

The thing with him was he was so f---n' small. You look back our tag

matches, he almost worked every one of our pay-per-view matches. We

wanted him because he was a great referee. He was a great human being.

I remember we were in Knoxville and he came and he was fighting for

his life. There are times in your life in this business, I remember

sitting that night, I didn't even go out, I just went back to the

hotel and I knew that he was dying. The guys went out. I couldn't go

out. I was sick. You don't want to sell to him. You have to no-sell to

him. "Hey, good to see you!" Then he walks away and you feel the

bottom of your stomach drop out. F---, man, what did he do? What did

he do, God? He was a good guy. There are so many pricks in the world

that are alive. Why him? Of everybody, why him? He was nothing but a

great guy.


Keller: I always remember him shadow boxing moves in the corner during

matches. Then he'd be invisible the rest of the match.


Nash: Yeah, he was special. I think Charles Robinson was real good. He

was another guy I liked. He had a good personality. I meshed with him.


Keller: Tell me about one or two of the best ribs from the road.


Nash: Me and Sean Waltman when I sh-- in a cup and he put it in

Sunny's bag. No, wait, he put it in her food in Europe. She had said,

"Could you tell them to be sure they get on the bus on time tomorrow

so they don't get into my training and eating." We were like, "Okay,

you f---in' c--t. Sh--s on." And it was. I sh-- a Dairy Queen lump of

sh-- in a plastic cup and gave it to Kid. Kid took a turd out with a

fork and put it between the turkey she was eating. They hid her bags

way downstairs in the basement. She got on the bus and sliced into the

turkey and took a stab and put it in her mouth. She put the light on

and saw it was a turd. She went balistic. Vince called me and asked

what was going on. I said, "Well, on the road, sh-- happens." Vince

went, "Ho ho ho ho ho ho! Well, ho ho ho ho ho. Well, uh, do you know

anything about it?" I said, "Nope, I don't." She flew home the next

day and she was done. That was the biggest rib that I was a part of in

my career. I remember when eight guys sh-- into a pie pan and they put

it in Madusa's bag in Atlanta. Robbie (Rick) Steiner put it all in her

bag and then shook it over his head. Deuce no-sold it. She never said

a f---ing word. All the boys were, like, all right, she's part of the



Keller: Why was that done to her?


Nash: I don't know. She might have said something. Maybe just to test

her because she was a girl. Sonny was out of control. With her, it was



Keller: How about one without sh-- as part of it. I know that might

eliminate 90 percent of them.


Nash: There was one that Waltman pulled with Owen (Hart) on a guy

taking cocaine. There was this guy who was Owen's male rat. His name

was Paul. Back in the day, if you could get a rat to drive you for

three or four days on a 20 day trip, it'd save you fifty bucks a day.

So we'd all do it in a heartbeat. They did a deal where they went

someplace and next to it was the wedding place. They went in to get

some sleep. Paul and this girl went in there to sleep. So they called

from the other room and said, "This is the front office and you gotta

get out of there." They said, "Whatever." Then one of them knocked on

the door and said, "This is the police." Paul walked over. It was Owen

on the other side. He said, "F---, what are we going to do with this?"

They had a bag of flour in this thing. They gave it to Paul and said,

"Get rid of this!" So Paul runs to the bathroom and dumps the sh--

down the toilet and flushed it. So Owen and Sean come back and said,

"We got rid of the cops, man! Where's the sh--." It was like

Goodfellows. They freaked out when Paul said he flushed it. "What do

you mean? That was 20 grand worth of sh--! Oh my god!" They ribbed

that guy so many f---in' times. He was just one of those guys you

ribbed the sh-- out of. He never caught on. He never realized it was a

rib. That was a good one. Owen was the king. I remember one time, it

was around Christmas. J.J. (Dillon) had fined Owen the week before. So

we're going home for Christmas break in a day or two. J.J. asks, "Has

anyone seen my briefcase." Handcuffed up about 20 feet above the floor

on a pipe is J.J.'s briefcase. (laughs) Owen got someone with a cherry

picker to put it up there so there wasn't a ladder in the place that

would reach. And so there's J.J.'s briefcase hanging from this water

pipe. Owen looked up and said, "God, I wonder who did that, J.J.?"



Keller: How did J.J. react?


Nash: He had that look that said, "F---, you f---er!" It was one of

those deals where you should know better than to f--- with Owen

because Owen will have the last word.

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Guest EastCoastJ

Kevin Nash Torch Talk Part 15:


Torch Talk with Kevin Nash, pt. 15

Originally Published: July 16, 2005

Torch Newsletter #871


In the following 15th installment of a six-hour "Torch Talk" with

Kevin Nash conducted on March 24. In this installment, he talks about

the Bret Hart-Shawn Michaels rivalry, Mick Foley's style, and the

wrestling intellect of Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair, among other subjects.


Wade Keller: What is an example of the Clique working together for

each other's best interests?


Kevin Nash: I remember sitting in there and Vince (McMahon) putting

the parameters he did on Shawn (Michaels) and Scott (Hall) for the

second ladder match. Basically, he said, "We're trying to be Disney,

we don't want violence, we want you to have a ladder match but not use

the ladder." We sat there, the five of us, in the room and put

together the second ladder match which was actually a greater

accomplishment than the first one because they didn't want us to be

violent. People don't know that. You watch that back and they really

don't use the ladder. They had to try to beat the first one without

using the prop. To sit there that night, that was the first night that

Paul (Leveseque, a/k/a Triple H) kind of just came into his own. He

had one after another really good ideas and everybody was thinking

this young kid has a brain for it.


Keller: What do you think of the wrestling intelligence of Ric Flair

and Hulk Hogan?


Nash: I remember one time when Hogan did a deal with the Giant. Giant

was standing behind him and Hogan did that thing he does where the

people were screaming and Giant was behind him and he does the thing

where you're going, "F---in', would you turn, already?!" Then you

realize he does the uncomfortably long "doesn't turn" to the point

where it actually gets the people, and then you go, "Wow, okay, I

learned something tonight. You got me. I would have turned way sooner.

Gotcha. You're in control of the crowd." That's the thing about Terry

(Hogan). He doesn't do much, but everything he does is f---in'

precision, it's well-planned, and it's been happening for a long time.

Same as Ric. Ric knows what works and he does it. There are very few

guys who have that kind of track record.


Keller: Is there anyone not as prominent who impressed you in terms of

their wrestling intellect who never got a shot to have any kind of



Nash: I think Disco (Inferno). He's my friend. He thinks sometimes way

out of the ballpark. It's one of those deals where if I was to

creatively do something in this business ever again, I'd want him

there. A lot of times the further you go out, the closer you get to

what you want. He's the kind of guy who you can ask for an idea and

he'll go, "How about this, how about this, how about this, how about

this, how about this, how about this?" You're not going to have eight

guys sitting in a room looking at each other saying, "Should we order

Chinese?" He never got credit, and I think because he's so tenacious

with his ideas, a lot of bookers won't use him. Dusty just won't use

him because of that. F---, dude, you don't want to drink spring water,

don't drink it, but f---in' don't tell me you don't want to drink. I'm

watching your sh--, you need some water bad, dog.


Keller: We talked briefly about it earlier, but got sidetracked - what

about the Bret Hart-Shawn Michaels rivalry? Was it just two rivals who

were part of the same era fighting for the same spot? Or was there

immaturity on both people's part? Or were they just two opposite

personalities who had to coexist? What was it that made their feud so

interesting and intense?


Nash: I wasn't there when it went down, so I heard about it second

hand. I heard from Paul (Triple H). The only reason I heard about it

was because Bret's wife said, "I bet your buddies in Atlanta are

f---in' laughing right now (about the Survivor Series swerve in

1997)." We got lumped into it, like we were coconspirators or

something. I think it was one of those deals where at that point - and

I know the mentality that I had was like, I remember being on a New

York talk show and talking sh-- about Hogan and (Randy) Savage because

I was so pro-Vince. If you were in Vince's camp, you thought Vince's

way. If someone was going to walk out of the camp, they became the

enemy. I don't think it was a Bret-Shawn thing as much as Bret wanting

to f---in' leave and go somewhere else; since he wasn't on the team

anymore, they hated him. They coincided for three years when I was

there without any animosity.


Keller: They had been a fist-fight backstage years earlier. There was

a lot of tension between them for years which is one of the reasons

Bret refused to job to Michaels in Montreal on PPV. He cited that

Michaels had avoided doing jobs before. He didn't respect the way he



Nash: I was in the car with Shawn and Shawn never really said anything

negative about Bret. He would say sometimes he was kind of a mark. He

had a shrine of belts in his house and sh--. Shawn never really said

anything negative about him. The thing was, we kind of had the stroke.

It was like sitting in the front of a 65 foot yacht drinking

Cosmopolitans. It didn't really matter what others were thinking or

doing. We were going, we were doing our sh--. We were semi-booking our

own sh--, so we had nothing to complain about.


Keller: Now some name association. Steve Austin.


Nash: Great. And my buddy. One of my best friends. I love him to death.


Keller: The Rock.


Nash: Gifted. One in probably a billion.


Keller: Undertaker.


Nash: A warrior. F---in' shop steward. The guy whose been on the

assembly line for 25 years. Good guy. Got a good heart. Probably the

best big man to ever work in the business.


Keller: Mick Foley.


Nash: Crazy. Incredibly intelligent. Probably one of the brightest,

most intelligent people every to be in this business. When you asked

who is intelligent, I missed his name. God, he's on a different

planet. Always has been. Too smart for the room, basically. There's

very few people who get his sh--. He's in a fourth dimension.


Keller: Do you think his crazy bumps and taking ten, twenty chairshot

to the head raised the bar too high?


Nash: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, how do you defeat somebody with a

schoolboy after he takes that f---in' bump off the cage and through

the table? The thiing was - I'll say this and I'd say it to Mick's

face - it was supposed to be a work. When you f---in' land on 50

tacks, there's no work to that. There's no work to falling 200 feet

onto a table. There's no work to falling through the cage. It's not a

work anymore. You couldn't have that Hell in a Cell match 15 nights in

a row. But, at the same time, I mean, there's a guy who if you know

his history, he was Dude Love, he jumped off of his garage onto a

f---in' mattress. There's a predestination in his gene pool that made

him do that. Mick Foley, Cactus Jack, whoever you want to say, that

alter ego and his body had to go through that table on the floor. It's

what completes him. That match completed him, I think. It depleted

him, too, but I think it completed him. He took it to such a f---in'

level that the only thing basically someone could do right now is the

Vietnam set yourself on fire. He took it to such a level, and if

that's what he wanted to do, he definitely accomplished it. I remember

watching it going, "Holy f---!"


The whole Owen (Hart) thing, when that happened, you almost thought it

was a work when they didn't show it. They said Owen Hart crashed and

did it. I thought it was such a horrible way to do an angle. I thought

it was an angle at the time. They were doing a lot of racy stuff. I

was watching the pay-per-view and I kind of saw the look on people's

faces, and I called on a cell phone and finally Paul called me back

and said, "Man, he's dead." I went, "Oh, f---!" That was without a

doubt the worst thing; I sat and cried that night. I mean, it's one

thing for a guy to take pills and kill himself, it's another thing for

a guy who never did anything wrong but make people laugh and just was

a friend to everybody. I mean, I don't think there's been a person

who's ever been in the business who could say something bad about

Owen. He was that guy. You could be 25 days into a tour and be in

India with diarrhea and he would make you laugh. He was that f---in'

guy. If there was ever a f---in' tragedy in this business, man, that

was it.

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Guest EastCoastJ

This interview series went on WAY too fucking long.



Torch Talk with Kevin Nash, pt. 16

Originally Published: August 6, 2005

Torch Newsletter #873


In the following 16th installment of a six-hour "Torch Talk" with

Kevin Nash conducted on March 24. In this installment he continues to

discuss various people he's crossed paths with over the years. The

17th and final installment will be published next week.


Wade Keller: Talk about Brock Lesnar.


Kevin Nash: Interesting... When he came in, he travelled with me and

Kurt (Angle). It was funny because of all the shooters, he was the

quickest one to be able to land on his back. Most shooters, when they

want to bump, want to land on their stomach. The really good shooter

guys have that tendency. He was really comfortable doing that, but he

was a tough mother f---er and he knew it and I think it was a hard

transition for him. Kurt, to me, there will never be anybody like Kurt

again. Kurt was the best in the f---in' world. Before he got hurt he

was damn near close to the best in pro wrestling.


Keller: Do you agree with the criticism of Brock walking away when he

did for the reasons he did?


Nash: Absolutely not. Obviously he wasn't happy with the situation. He

walked away on top. Something wasn't right as far as he was concerned.

I don't care who anybody is. When I watch Barry Bonds say, "Uncle, I

don't know if I'll ever play baseball again." When I heard that, I

went, you know what, I'm not gonna watch baseball this year. F--- you

writers, now you've pissed me off because I really want to watch Bonds

beat Babe's record. I don't care if he's on the gas, not on the gas,

whatever. Just f---in ' let people live their lives. If they don't

want to do something or they want to do something, leave everybody

alone. Don't be so judgmental.


Keller: What about Brock ripping the business right after he got out

of it? Instead of talking about pro wrestling respectfully, he spit on

it. That's why a number of wrestlers have said they don't want him

back in their locker room.


Nash: All it shows me is the greenness that you're not smart enough

not to burn bridges yet. That's all it shows.


Keller: As a person, you got to know him pretty well.


Nash: He's a good guy, a real good guy. I've spent a lot of time with

him. You know what, I don't know what the real reason was he walked

away, but something hurt. They need talent up there and he's a piece

of talent. I would welcome him back.


Keller: Bill Goldberg.


Nash: Enigma. I mean, if there was ever a guy at the right place at

the right time, it was him. Another one who a lot of people think is a

prick and a son of a bitch. If you know Bill, really know Bill, he's a

really good guy. I've seen Bill with no sleep stay up for hours with a

cancer kid through Make-a-Wish. People can say whatever they want

about him. I've seen a Bill that nobody else ever sees.


Keller: From a wrestling perspective, he wasn't enough of a student of

the game to be able to fend off the negatives and not end up bitter.


Nash: Nobody made him be (a student of the game). It was a meteoric

rise and like anything else - you crush people in 30 seconds, then all

of a sudden you put the strap on him, you can't go, "Okay, you've been

going 30 seconds, now go 20 minutes." F---, you created Tron, you made

the game Tron, you can't change the rules in the middle of it. What

did they expect? They created a monster and now you want the monster

to work. You haven't taught the monster how to do it. He did a decent

job covering up his inability to know the business. I don't think he

was a sh-- worker.


Keller: He just wasn't where he needed to be when he reached that

mountaintop and all the expectations that come with it.


Nash: No. And that's definitely not Bill's fault. I will never, never,

ever chastise somebody who was pushed too fast, too soon. I mean, if

somebody told me when I broke in as Master Blaster Steele that

"tomorrow you're getting the belt and you're going to go 20 minutes

with Flair in f---in' Jacksonville," I'd have gone, "Okay."


Keller: How about Sid?


Nash: You know, I had a crazy dream the other night. Sid was in it

with long, brown hair. And I thought to myself, why is Sid in my

dream? Maybe if I ever get creative again, maybe I should contact him

because he's in my dream. I think just physically, as far as just a

visual, wow. I remember when he and (Dan) Spivey were the Skyscrapers.

Me and Spivey actually worked as The Skyscrapers against the Steiners

when I was a Master Blaster after my partner left at the Omni show in

Thanksgiving. There's some trivia. Anyway, I thought Sid wasn't a

great worker, but f---, he can play on my team.


Keller: How about Randy Savage?


Nash: When I came into the business, especially when I came into the

WWF, he was the captain. He was the guy who kind of held the ship

together. When he left, losing him was a bigger loss morale-wise than

losing Hogan. When he left and went to WCW, that really was a

ball-shock because he did Raw in Bushkill and then he was gone.


Keller: Why does Vince, of all the people he's forgiven over the years

and brought back, not forgive Randy?


Nash: I don't think he ever forgave Luger, either. I think if you

leave without at least notice, you're not welcome back. I think it's a

respect thing. Vince wouldn't fire a top guy without telling a top guy

he was fired. He wouldn't just top paying you. It's not a way to do

business, just to leave in the middle of the night. Vince isn't going

to pack up shop and leave in the middle of the night. He doesn't

expect anyone else to do it. That's something they've got to work out.

I can see Vince's viewpoint, definitely.


Keller: Dustin Rhodes.


Nash: Huge shadow, you know? I would not want my son - and I'm not

saying I'm anywhere near Dusty's caliber because I think Dusty had a

better career than I've ever had - but I wouldn't want my son to

follow my footsteps. I mean, it's a no-win situation. There's not many

second generation people who have eclipsed their fathers, or third

generations. To me, it's more of a hindrance. The guys they're

following are huge. Why don't any of the sh-- guys have a kid who's a

prodigy? (laughs) It's always the superstars who have the kids. David

Flair, geez! Before I wrestle, I'd have stood on top of a tall

building and jumped on top of a pole. F---, if I'm Ric Flair's kid,

I'm not gonna wrestle. It's like (Michael) Jordan's kid f---in'

strappin' on some tennis shoes. F--- it man, go play tennis. Do

something else.


Keller: Curt Hennig did well for himself.


Nash: Curt is probably the best of all of them. He's probably the best

second-generation guy.


Keller: Jim Ross.


Nash: Actually, he was the first guy who I think saw something in me.

So I gotta give him a heads up. Thanks, Jim.


Keller: How about in his role as head of talent relations?


Nash: I always liked him because he was never dishonest with me. I

mean, we used to call it the J.J. job. I mean, it's such a sh--

f---in' job. It's thankless. You're a henchman and a hitman for Vince.

It's a no-win situation. But you know what, I know Steve Austin loves

him to death and spent more time with him than I did. If Steve Austin

tells me somebody's a good person, he's a good person. Period. I don't

question it. Steve loves him to death. That's all I need to know.


Keller: Tony Schiavone.


Nash: I like Tony. I mean, it's amazing to me that he didn't get a job

somewhere besides doing AM radio for the Braves. I thought Tony was a

good guy, a good announcer. Tony was versatile. He wasn't unhip. He

was a straight guy.


Keller: He was the Pat Sajak of wrestling.


Nash: Yeah. I thought he was talented.


Keller: Jeff Jarrett.


Nash: He's a good worker and a good friend. I think that when he was

booking, things were a lot better than they are now. He's got a lot of

personal stress in his life with his wife and her situation right now.

My prayers go out to him on so many levels. I think that's the only

reason I'm still there - because of Jeff. That's the only reason. Flat

out the only reason. I won't stab Jeff in the back.

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Guest EastCoastJ

Torch Talk with Kevin Nash, pt. 14

Originally Published: July 16, 2005

Torch Newsletter #871


In the following 14th installment of a six-hour "Torch Talk" with

Kevin Nash conducted on March 24, Nash talks about his regrets, his

brightest and darkest moments, his friends, his handling of money over

the years, and his former WCW colleagues.


Wade Keller: Does all of the criticism of Triple H ever get to you

since you're a good friend of his?


Kevin Nash: I get so pissed off at people dogging him. He's the nicest

mother f---er. There's not a better guy who's ever been in the

business than him.


Keller: The criticism that sticks the most with people these days is

that he might be obsessed to a fault with the industry and with his

place in it. That said, there isn't a Rock or a Steve Austin that he's

holding back.


Nash: To me, I actually was thinking it would have been perfect for me

to come down during his (WrestleMania) match and f--- over Batista and

cost him the title. Everyone assumes Batista's winning the title. I'm

without a doubt probably his best friend in the business. I thought,

god, that sounds like me trying to steal WrestleMania and I don't want

that pressure. I'm thinking of a good f--- finish that keeps him with

the belt, but I never told him. Let him lose it. I don't want to be

that hated. I don't want all of his heat dumped on me in one day. The

whole locker room would be saying, "How the f--- does Nash come in out

of nowhere from the other company and get all the heat? F--- that,

f--- him." So I kept that idea to myself.


Keller: Have you stayed in touch with a lot of your former WWE

colleagues who aren't in wrestling anymore?


Nash: What a crazy group that was. When WCW collapsed, there were so

many people who didn't save their money and it just f---ed them over.


Keller: It's amazing how many lives WCW propped up. There were adults

who never learned to be responsible because they never had to.


Nash: There were wrestlers making more than $300,000 a year, and I'd

tell them to buy real estate. With a four year deal, you could pay off

a nice piece of property. Some of these guys have nothing to show for

those big money years. To me, I'm not a f---in' brilliant guy, but I

came down here and bought this condo. I bought another piece of real

estate and another and another. I bought beach front property down

here for f---in' 153 a lot and just turned two of them for over seven

figures. I just look at them and say, "Come on guys, I'm not the

f---in' brightest guy on earth. I'm a C-average college, C-average

high school guy, but I'm smart enough to do this. Can't you guys read?


Keller: I think there was an expectation among some of the wrestlers

that the gravy train would magically keep being there.


Nash: I remember going to Lex Luger's house. He had a 135,000 dollar

brand new Porche and a 65,000 dollar Denali Suburban with 22,000

dollars worth of electronics and 12,000 worth of rims. It was a 90,000

a Tahoe, basically. I was still driving the same old sh-- I had ten

years ago. It's like, I really don't give a f---. God forbid, I grew

up in an atmosphere in Detroit where if you sh-- kicked on in the

morning when you turned the key, it was win. I bought the big house in

Arizona. Thank god before the collapse of WCW that me and my wife got

separated and we sold it for a huge profit. We were lucky in that

sense, and then we downgraded because I thought I was going to get

divorced and lose half of my sh--. I downgraded my life to such an

incredible degree - I mean, I lived in a 1,300 square foot loft in

Atlanta while I booked. Sh-- worked out and I ended up better off than

99 percent of the guys.


Keller: When of the most important things to do when you're rich is to

learn how to live poor just in case.


Nash: And I'm so glad I did. The thing was, I have the perfect wife

because my wife is, like, she won't spend a dime. She's one of the

girls who won't spend money.


Keller: Do you ever, looking back at the whole ride you've been on,

regret ever getting involved in pro wrestling?


Nash: Never.


Keller: Would you trade it all to have been an eight-year starting

center in the NBA if in the end, you had the same amount of money

saved up at this age?


Nash: No, because I wouldn't have the double Shawns/Seans, I wouldn't

have Scott, and I wouldn't have Hunter. I wouldn't have the friends I



Keller: What's the darkest moment of your wresting-related life?


Nash: Probably Owen.


Keller: How about your brightest moment?


Nash: You know, as crazy as it sounds, the first night. Absolutely.

With that stupid f--ing mohawk and a steroid back full of acne and a

sh--y f---in', I guess it was that first taste of the drug that made

me want to continue to do it, I guess, forever.


Keller: What's the one thing you did that you'd take back?


Nash: (pause, deep breath) I think there was a time when I was really

a prick. I think there were times when I wasn't the nicest person,

that I used my power when I shouldn't have. I made life difficult for

people when I shouldn't have. There were times I was a prick. I can't

take it back and I can't sit down and tell every person I'm sorry, but

I'm a Christian. I've sat down and confessed my sins to my maker and

he's forgiven me. But I've been a prick. I have been a prick. I've

been known to be one of the biggest pricks in the business.


Keller: Which person did you trust whom you most regret trusting?


Nash: Gosh, I don't know. We're all so smart to this business, nobody.

You don't trust anybody. I mean, over time you begin to trust people,

but sh--, it takes you years. You never trust anybody who books. It's

the Memphis handshake. You learn that coming in. There's nobody that's

f---ed me that I said to myself, "B'whoah! I didn't see that coming!"

It just doesn't happen. That's the business. You learn that. I had

Jody (train me). I knew coming in what it was (all about). I knew up

front they were hanging tenderloins on me and dunking me in the shark

tank. There's nobody I've trusted that I wish I didn't because there

was nobody I trusted going in.


Keller: Was there anybody you did not trust who in retrospect you wish

you had? Or was there advice you were given that you didn't trust

enough to take?


Nash: I think I wish I wouldn't have been so hard on Hulk (Hogan) at

the beginning because he turned out to be a really good friend and a

good guy. I was too much of a mark to see Terry (Bollea). I just saw

Hulk. I guess because I was a mark for him right before I got into the

business and he was there and he was a strikeable target from a

f---in' Japanese zero, he was someone I could Kamikaze - you know what

I mean? It was a who's dick is bigger type thing. We thought we could

take him out. We couldn't. You can't. Ah, f---. I remember when we

broke in the business. I was sitting in the locker room with Scott

Levy (Raven). We were, like, "When do you think f---?n' Hogan and

(Ric) Flair will hang it up? F---, and Flair's still doing it as good

as about anybody. I mean, I still to this day with f---in' Paul

(Levesque, Triple H) would have dropped the strap to him in

Greenville. It was right. It was one of those deals where he could

have been champ three days. It was one of those places where on the

fly I would have called, "Just beat me."


Keller: And he could have been an eleven time champion now instead of

ten had he done it?


Nash: Absolutely.


Keller: Give me a short list of the people with the sharpest minds for

pro wrestling.


Nash: Vince (McMahon), of course. I think Eric (Bischoff) has a real

good mind for it. Shawn Michaels. I think Scott Hall has a great mind.

I think Paul has a great mind. I think Kid has a good mind, too.

That's what made the Clique work. Everybody, we were kind of, you put

us all together, we made a human being together.

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I went to Pittsburgh with a buddy  of mine and I'll tell you, Madden is over as f--- in Pittsburgh. You  go places and you see people walking over to you and you expect them  to say f--- you, but they're all nice and say hi to Mark. He's a big  celebrity in Pittsburgh.



I call bullshit. The sports page here always has letters on how big an asshole he is on his radio show.


I guess you could say he's over as a heel here, but I give you the Sek 100% guarantee that he's been told "fuck you" more than once.


Triple H's biggest challenge personally is balancing his personal and professional relationship with Steph because he disagrees with her A LOT, but has to bite his tongue based on their relationship and the fact that "he does what he does" and "she does what she does" and they have to respect each other's boundarie


I always wondered how they got along, considering Hunter seems to be such a mark for old school territory style wrestling and Steph......isn't. The thought of Hunter having to sit there and listen to all her stupid ass soap opera angles while he grits his teeth to nubs makes me LOL.

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