Fan-TASTIC Jim Cornette interview

[Loss]

In Perspective: My Interview With Jim Cornette

Posted By Bambi Weavil on 01.25.2006

 

A incredible in-depth interview with a incredible wrestling legend.

This interview took place Monday night, January 23, 2006 between myself and Jim Cornette. It was a absolute honor and pleasure speaking to Jim Cornette about various aspects of the business and about Ring of Honor. Here's the interview in it's entirety, I once again thank Jim Cornette for his time and great insight into the sport of professional wrestling.

 

BW: Why did you decide to join Ring of Honor in the first place?

 

JC: Well, actually, Ring of Honor, for several reasons. For one, it gave me the opportunity to be a performer again because I like managing I wouldn't want to do it full time anymore especially the way the business is these days. But I got the chance to manage some, and then also I got a chance to work with some of my personal heroes, guys like Bobby Hennan. I did the interview series, the Straight Shooting series on DVD with Ring of Honor. We've done three with Bobby Hennan, did one with Percy Pringle, just did one with Bill Watts, another one will be in the planning stages very soon. You know, it's a opportunity to be around young guys who are still hungry and still want to make their name in the business. Samoa Joe, to me, is the next generation superstar. Christopher Daniels, who I've been a fan of, I met him almost ten years ago and, I knew he had something and he proved me right and I love to be proven right. So I got a chance to work alongside some of the young guys but at the same time, work with some of the legends and some of my heroes and personal friends. And for example, I never worked with Bobby Hennan, we've never been at the same place at the same time until Ring of Honor put us together and so it's a thrill for me, it's a very laid back schedule. I'm not really in wrestling full time anymore, by choice, as well as by necessity. So it gives me a chance to work with a lot of people that I really like, they treat me very well, Gabe and Carrie and all the guys, it's exciting to be apart of something that's making a niche for itself in the wrestling business and so I really can't fault anyone's effort. They all work their asses off, the fans at the shows work as hard as the wrestlers do and it's really just a positive thing and I love doing it. I've really been down on wrestling for the past year and a half or so and that's one of the bright spots and I'm looking forward to, and I've tried to take the last six months off and not do anything related to wrestling but then the Midnight Express reunion shows come up and it's a chance to be together with Dennis Conrey, Bobby Eaton and Stan Lane again and then the Ring of Honor shows come up so even when I try to stay away, I just can't do it.

 

BW : I think it's because you are so valued as far as wrestling goes and you really love it and appreciate it and as people get in and out of the sport, and they move on or use it as a pedestal or at least in my opinion...

 

JC : Well, the problem in wrestling right now is the people with the money don't have the love or the brains and the people with the love and the brains don't have the money.

 

BW: Exactly! It's really true and you can tell by the quality of the writing, let's say the WWE for instance, when they put Hollywood writers running a wrestling show, what do Hollywood writers know about wrestling?

 

JC: And you know the thing is, I feel it's a slap in the face to everyone in the business because I'm a big fan of Seinfeld and I love 24 and there is a lot of television shows over the past ten years that I'm a big fan of and love to sit and watch but I've written more hours of wrestling television over the past fifteen years than anybody standing here living and I don't claim to be able to write a single episode of those shows. So I don't know why people from that business feel like they can get into wrestling or more importantly, people who haven't been in that business feel like they can use wrestling as a stepping stone to do something else. I never wanted wrestling to be a stepping stone, this is what I wanted to do my whole life and I did it, and I'm proud of what I've done and I wouldn't mess with someone else's business and I really resent when they mess with mine.

 

BW : Do you think the trend of hiring from Hollywood would ever end or if you could educate someone who has never seen wrestling before, in what ways would you educate them?

 

JC : Oh Jesus! I don't know what trends will end because as long as people in power choose to believe they aren't really in the wrestling business and they are in some fictitious sports entertainment world. Let's face it, when has someone has someone come up to you and said 'hey did you see the sports entertainment show on tv last night?' Or 'hey, I went and bought my sports entertainment tickets.' It was a fictitious term that was coined by Vince McMahon to fool their advertisers twenty years ago and God bless him and more power to him if it helps business but what has happened, is now people that have been hired by that company that don't know better believe that sports entertainment is actually a real entity and that wrestling is something different than sports entertainment. And therefore you have the crappy product that you see on television and basically the disregard for the wrestling fans that you see today. There is no such thing as sports entertainment. It's a fictitious term that people now believe that there is something called sports entertainment because they have been fed that. Therefore you get people that think, 'We're not in wrestling! We're in sports entertainment, we could win a Emmy!' I don't give a shit about winning a Emmy! I don't care. It's not my business. I'm in wrestling and I'm proud of it. If more people were proud of being in the wrestling business we wouldn't be in the sad state that we're in now. However, I digress on the soap box.

 

You can't educate someone to professional wrestling unless they've been fans of it and more importantly, unless they've been involved on it professionally as performers. I've told a lot of people this, I still believe it, you can't be an effective wrestling personality unless you've had two experiences: one being a wrestling fan and knowing what the fans want to see and knowing what the fans buy and what they don't buy and secondly, by being a performer and feel the other side of it so you know what gets over with the crowd and what you can do to excite people and what you can do to engender some type of emotion. In other words, the biggest wrestling fan in the world would not be a successful booker or wrestler, and the greatest athlete in the world if he didn't like wrestling or didn't live for wrestling would not be a successful performer. It takes both in order to be a successful writer, whatever they call it these days, I still say booker. I always told the guys that we trained here in OVW, Sir Laurence Olivier, or the great Meryl Streep could not overcome bad writing. And William Shakespeare could not overcome bad acting. It takes both. And that's the problem today. People who are writing the shows are not wrestling fans and not know what the wrestling fans will buy and conversely, and unfortunately, a lot of the wrestlers these days have gotten into the business already, for a lack of a better term, "smart." Because of the Internet, because all the secrets are out and they in turn try to play for a Internet audience. Which is like, if you were a mainstream actor, just trying to play for the critics, you're not going to sell to the mainstream audience. If you are trying to play for Siskel and Ebert, well one of them is dead now so I'm dating myself, showing my age. If you are giving your performance simply for good reviews then you aren't going to get over, because the average guy in Iowa just wants to go to a movie and have fun and be entertained. So by the same token, the best singers in the world don't sell the most records. Bambi, who sells the most cheeseburgers in the world?

 

BW: McDonald's.

 

JC: Are they the best?

 

BW: No.

 

JC: Exactly. Marketing has a part to play, but the point is, what sells most is not necessarily what is best. Marketing plays a part, there has to be a synergy, everything has to play together. You have to have. to me, logical, creditable athletes and storylines. Athleticism, as JR would say, my good friend Jim Ross, athleticism and hard-hitting action. There's nothing worse than wrestlers trying to be comedians. There's nothing worse in the world, but yet, the people who are in charge now, think it has be funny and has to be entertaining. No, if I wanted to watch comedy, then I'll watch Saturday Night Live, if I wanted to see sex, then I'll go to the Pay-Per-View channel because it's a lot clearer, you can see a lot more. If I see wrestling, I'd go to a wrestling program. So in trying to make things appealing to everything, they've watered down, neutered, homogenized, pasteurized everything where it doesn't really appeal to anybody except for the fan base they have created for whatever this hybrid is that they do now. Just today, I was in Sam's club doing my shopping, and a guy came up to me because he recognized me, people know me here in Louisville, KY, I've been here doing television here for twenty years and asked, "whatever happened to Austin Idol?" And I told him, he's been retired for how many years, but the point is, the last time Austin Idol wrestled in this town was in 1988. So 18 years later, people are still asking about Austin Idol. And I look at the crew here in Louisville, or actually, anywhere in the United States, and say in 18 years is anyone ever going to say 'whatever happened to so and so?' Who's going to make this lasting impression? I was at Backyard Burgers about a month ago, actually, it was a little bit longer, it was a little bit after Eddy Guerrero died. And people were sitting in the next booth around the corner, but I could overhear the conversation, and they were saying Bill Dundee as only 5'6", 200 lbs, and Jerry Lawler wasn't that big, and the Fabulous Ones ... these guys were main eventers in Louisville from 1975 until 1985 when the Lousville Gardens were drawing four-thousand, five-thousand people a week to see wrestling and twenty, twenty-five, thirty years later people still remember them. And they finished the conversation, 'yes, all these guys now, they take steroids now and die of overdoses.' That's what wrestling is now to the average person. They didn't see me they weren't doing this conversation for my benefit. I was eavesdropping on someone's conversation because it was in the news. It made the impression on me, I had to think, thirty years from now is anyone going to be saying whatever happened to John Cena? John Cena's a good friend of mine and I love him. Is anybody going to be saying, whatever happened to any top guys that are currently in the wrestling business? Are they are going to make that lasting impression? There's something, an emotional attachment that guys had and unfortunately now is being lost. And going back to your original topic being Ring of Honor, these fans yeah, they are going to be saying twenty years from now, 'I saw Samoa Joe and Christopher Daniels and god damn, they was good! And it made a impression on me.' And so much stuff they can throw away and "buckshot booking" as we used to call it, fire a shot gun against a wall and see if anything sticks. There's nothing to make an lasting impression. When I was a wrestling fan I can remember the NWA champions. I knew when the title changed hands, I knew the order of champions, from Gene Kinisky to Dory Funk Jr. to Harley Race to Jack Brisco ... and now the title change every two to three weeks. Not in Ring of Honor because the titles mean something.

 

BW : Do you feel talent has been pushed too soon, too fast? Do you feel they should climb up the ladder or if mid-card to main event too quickly? As far as training, do you think there is anything that's not being taught that should be emphasized as far as talent goes?

 

JC : Well, that's so multi-faceted. For one thing, yes guys are getting chances now to be main event talents before they have much experience as they should, but the problem is once again, twenty years ago, there were twenty-five territories. They would start as a preliminary wrestler in Kansas City and then he'd go to Texas and be in the middle of the card in San Antonio, then he'd go to the Carolinas and he'd be in the middle of the card again and then go to Florida and maybe get a shot at the main event and then go to Verne Gagne in the AWA or the WWWF or any one of a number of territories and finally, after years of working and being exposed to different styles and working with the best talent in the business in one shape or another, he would get a shot at main event and then it was make or break. If he had it, he would go on, if he drew money then he'd be in demand everywhere and if he didn't, he'd go away. Well now, there is no place for guys to go. So if you're signed to a contract to the WWE and unfortunately if you are hampered with a bad gimmick then you go away, if you do get over and you are signed to a long term contract and you stay past your welcome and you can't say ... Eddie Graham in Florida would call up Jim Crockett in the Carolinas or whoever was booking Atlanta and say, 'I got this guy who has been a great baby face for me but he's been here too long you need to use him on top and I'll bring him back in a year.' That doesn't happen now. Once they get tied down contractually to one company they stay there - if they are of any use, the company won't release them and finally, when they aren't of no use the company releases them and they gotta make their name all over again. So unfortunately there's where we lay with that.

 

In training guys, there are so many, for lack of a better term, McDonald's fast food wrestling schools, there are more wrestling schools than there are wrestling territories and that's one thing we've tried to stay away from in OVW, is taking guys just cause they have the check in their hand. Unless we feel, that they have a chance to make some kind of impact in the business or be successful, we don't take them. Now they will go somewhere but at least we don't have it on our head. So a lot of the guys get in the business now, because some ex-wrestler who once worked for a guy, who once wrestled a guy, who once won a championship somewhere. They train people and take their money and unleash them on the unsuspecting wrestling public and the guy is either going to hurt himself or somebody else, or never get anywhere just because he wasn't trained properly. We try to avoid that here because we don't want that on our conscience. And so that's why our track record is better than most because a lot of guys don't get into OVW because simply we don't think they have what it takes. And let's face it, every basketball fan can't play in the NBA, every football player can't play in the NFL and it's pretty tough to get into professional hockey, so why should it be easier to get into professional wrestling just because you can do a flip?

 

BW: As far as upcoming talent, do you see any models or careers they should follow from the past?

 

JC: Well imitation is the sincerest form of plagiarism, right?

 

BW: Right. Exactly.

 

JC: And if you steal from one person it's plagiarism, if you steal from several it's research. The people who do not study history are doomed to repeat its mistakes. I could go on with these platitudes, but the point is, you can always take a successful personality from any line of work, you can take the things that they did correctly and the mistakes they did and you can learn from them, but you have to bring something else of yourself to the table. So, you can't just say I'm going to copy Abdullah the Butcher or Dusty Rhodes or Ric Flair, you can take something they did but you have to make it your own, you have to put your own spin on it. So a lot of guys have not been exposed to and it's another thing we do at OVW or at least we did while I was around before the WWE ran me off, was to show video tapes and give guys reading material to learn about the guys who came before them in this sport. Because what baseball player doesn't know who Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb or Joe DiMaggio are? And what football player doesn't recognize Bronco Nagurski or Joe Namath? What basketball player doesn't know about Wilt Chamberlain or Kareem Abdul Jabbar? But nobody studies history in wrestling. They see "as seen on television." They see what's on TV and they copy that, so therefore they doom themselves to a career of mediocrity, because they are imitating what is already on television which is a imitation of a imitation. Nobody innovates. And that's what you need to do to get ahead in any business.

 

BW: Do you see any potential breakout stars that wrestling fans should pay attention to or look out for?

 

JC: Yes, absolutely. We've talked about a couple of them, Samoa Joe and Christopher Daniels. Samoa Joe he does not have a Mr. Universe body, he's not 6 foot 6, he's a bad ass son of a bitch who's gonna make somebody tap out. And everybody can understand and relate to it but because he doesn't fit the mold, now he's in ROH and TNA and will get over as a mainstream star that is not in the "big league", sortaspeak, because he's different. And once again, Tiger Mask, who revolutionized Japanese wrestling in the early 80s was only 5'6" and 175, 180 lbs. But he was so good at what he did, he was a accomplished wrestler, he traveled to Mexico and England, and studied all the different styles, that he revolutionized the industry. But now, every guy who is 5'6", 170 lbs think they can do what he did. No. Mick Foley, does he fit the image, the description, did he have the body? No. But he had the mind, and had the psychology, and the promo and when somebody gave him the opportunity, he got over. Mick Foley's bumps were the sugar to what made the medicine go down. So everybody started taking bumps thinking they could be the next Mick Foley, the problem is they didn't have psychology, they didn't have the promo, they didn't have the mind, and so, what you got is basically, an imitation without the original. Nobody has been able to successfully do what Mick Foley did, not because they weren't willing to jump off a balcony, but once you made the people take notice of you, then you have to have the shit to back it up for the longevity. So a lot of people don't realize that. And Mick himself will say,' my God so many of these guys have done so many death defying things trying to copy me, trying to get over and be successful as I am,' but the problem is they didn't see what Mick had to offer besides falling off a top of a cage. And it's the same thing, every time someone's successful, how many Rock and Roll Express imitators were there in the 80s and 90s?

 

BW: There were quite a few, they were trying to build them as, but you can't get them quite as good in my opinion.

 

JC: How many Road Warrior clones were there?

 

BW: At least three.

 

JC : Every time, oh, twenty. Every time someone's successful they try to copy it, but the problem is they don't see, there was more than what caught the attention, there was more to those guys that made them last and got them over. So they just try to either wear spikes or wear bandanas or take bumps off cages without having the talent behind it. That's the problem, you always need to take from people who have had success but you need to bring something of your own to the table for yourself to truly be noticed and be a success yourself, if that makes sense.

 

BW : It does, and talent I noticed on the tape who is actually your champion in Ring of Honor, Bryan Danielson, the American Dragon, why do you feel he's the best representation of ROH and what do we have to look forward to in his future?

 

JC : Dave Meltzer in the Wrestling Observer said recently that the ROH crowd, is a crowd that doesn't go to see garbage wrestling, they don't want to see people wrapped in barbedwire or whacked with baseball bats or shot with staple guns, they want to see athletic competitions, four star matches. They want to see a show that's going to blow them away with their ticket money and that's what ROH does. It gives the fans their money's worth and more. And Bryan Danielson is a guy who is dedicated to his business, and I could mention Roderick Strong, I could mention Austin Aries, I could mention Joe and Daniels and so many more, he's dedicated to the business, Nigel McGuiness, constantly learning. He may not be the wiley, cagey old veteran, but these guys are going in there, putting their bodies on the line, having an athletic contest instead of a stunt man show. And that's why I like Ring of Honor, there is something for everybody. You are going to see high flying moves, you are going to see death-defying stuff, you're going to see a fight or two but you're going to see a lot of good wrestling and guys who are dedicated to the sport and you're not going to see the blatant bad taste, they're not going to advertise live sex as the main event. You're not going to see necrophilia, you're not going to see any terrorism, you're not going to see male cheerleaders, you're not going to see stupid comedy, unfunny skits. You're not going to have your intelligence insulted with Ring of Honor. And even if these guys aren't these wiley veterans that know every trick in the book, they are trying hard and they want to succeed and that to me is why the folks get with them and the audience is growing. It used to be a couple of years ago I'd say, 'wow Ring of Honor is drawing 400 people per show and they really enjoyed it,' now I'm saying 'Ring of Honor is drawing 800 people or 1000 people per show and they are really enjoying it.' And they are bringing in Japanese stars and they are giving people a choice, and an alternative. And that's what you have to do. If you don't have the money to compete with the budget, you can't blow up a bus or wreck a corvette every week, why not put your guys in the ring every week and see if they can earn their money by wrestling? And make the fans happy by seeing a great match. Imagine that, wrestling, what a concept.

 

BW : What a concept! Exactly. Do you see any TV deal in the future for them to get more exposure or strictly DVD releases?

 

JC : I think it would almost be detrimental to Ring of Honor right now if they got television because then they would have to serve so many different masters. Corporate wrestling has killed professional wrestling. Back in the days when everybody was cowboys, and it was like, 'okay we're going to do this blood and guts and as Bill Watts would say, pain, blues and agony. And we're gonna fight, we're gonna fight, and next week we're gonna fight some more! And by God you're going to want to see the fight. Now it's corporate network, and it's not blue collar, it's white collar, it's stock options and it's gotten so big on a network scale and a national television scale, and a PPV scale but it's been watered down and homogenized and sanitized. So Ring of Honor appeals to wrestling fans simply because they aren't trying to draw ratings on network television, they are not trying to draw PPV buys. They are trying to give people a great wrestling show, and if you don't live close enough to go see it live you can get it on DVD. And that's why they are successful, because they can do what the big companies can't, and that's say, 'this guy has a lot of talent, so I don't care if he doesn't fit the right look, we're going to push him, we're going to give him the opportunity.' So I think right now, television for ROH would detrimental, because then they would have to serve the same masters as the guys who are billionaires and that just screws the thing up for everybody.

 

BW : I see your point, I guess for me as a wrestling fan, it's so disheartening that we have to see what we have on TV and, I personally want to see wrestling, I don't really care to see the other aspects of the show, or Tim White killing himself on Internet, TV, whatever, you know?

 

JC : Oh yeah, suicide! Boy, that equals ratings! Let's make fun of cancer! How about killing puppies! They are so far out of touch from what fans actually want to see, they are so embarrassed about being in the wrestling business, they are thinking they are going to win Emmys as producers, directors, or writers or whatever. Once again, all my ambition ever was, was to be the best in the wrestling business at what particular job I was doing at the time.

 

Whether it be booker or manager or whatever the case, I didn't have aspirations to win Golden Globes and unfortunately, that's what has happened as everything's gone national and international and pay per view has come along and so much money is on the line. Just like as everything else. Sometimes the best rock and roll is when you go down to the local bar and you have a couple of drinks and you see that garage band that really wants to get over. And it's the same thing with wrestling, it takes the spirit and the heart out of the sport, when so many masters have to be served. What are the stockholders going to think? I don't give a shit about the stockholders. I want to talk about the wrestling fans. Wrestling was never mainstream but it was more popular in the past, it was the best kept secret in the United States. When Memphis was drawing 8,000 people every Monday night and Madison Square Garden was drawing 20,000 people every month, and Houston was drawing 10,000 people every two weeks but nobody paid any attention to wrestling because it was 'that wrestling, yeah, only trailer park people like that stuff.' Well, a lot more people liked it then, than are paying to see it now. The reason was because every region of the country had their own wrestling, their own stars, their own flavor, their own style, and it was what appealed to them. Texas wrestling wouldn't sell in New York, and New York wrestling, have mercy Lord knows, would not sell in Tennessee. And in the Carolinas was the hot bed of wrestling but Ric Flair and Greg Valentine and Ricky Steamboat and Blackjack Mulligan and Jimmy Snuka and Roddy Piper, but nobody knew them in California, but they were drawing bigger crowds in Charlotte, North Carolina, than in by God, Los Angeles Olympic Auditorium. So all of a sudden, when everything became national, in trying to appeal to everyone, you lose the edge that appeals to your local fans and then you white wash it, and it's become what it's become. And when you couple that with a bunch of people who have taken over the profession who know nothing about it and don't know what the fans want because they are only in it to, glorify themselves, than you pretty well completed the picture of roller derby which is what wrestling is now fast becoming without outfits like Ring of Honor and TNA. I watch TNA, they don't have Chris Benoit, but they don't have suicides either. I don't want to be pissed off when I watch a television program, I don't want my intelligence insulted, and people in the WWE feel that you're insulting people's intelligence when you try to make wrestling real, I feel like you're insulting the wrestling fans intelligence when you tell them that at one moment it is real and one moment that it isn't. That's when you insult people. They have no respect for their audience, no respect for their athletes, and as a result, nobody's over.

 

BW: Right and I think they've lost direction every week. My philosophy with WWE is one week they are great and the next week, they do something to ruin it. Tribute To The Troops is a great idea, a wonderful thing to do and the next week they did something completely asinine and took completely away from it.

 

JC : Sooner or later, a blind squirrel will find a nut.

 

BW : Another aspect to the sport I'm extremely disappointed in,is the lack of the tag teams and the trust of the tag team division as a whole. Do you have any tag teams in Ring of Honor that you're particularly proud of? Do you feel that tag team wrestling will once again be a hot draw like it used to?

 

JC : Well the problem is, once again, in the old days back when people still saw in black and white tag teams traveled from territory to territory, promotion to promotion as a team. The Midnight Express, The Rock 'N' Roll Express, The Road Warriors, The Fabulous Ones, back in the 70s when Nick Bockwinkel and Ray Stevens and The Assassins in the 60s, Von Brauners, tag teams traveled together from promotion to promotion. Now guys are signed to individual contracts, the promotion can put them together as a team, but they can also break them up on a whim, and the guys are still contractually obligated to wrestle for that promotion so therefore, you don't get those long running tag teams that stay together and who get a chance to become great. That's the problem, guys are signed to individual contracts so they are basically booked as teams or individuals, as the promotion sees fit and they aren't able to travel from place to place to place to really build that reputation. That's why tag team wrestling and to be honest, the guy who won the wrestling war, simply just like McDonald's his cheeseburgers aren't the best but he has the best marketing. Tag team wrestling was never a feature. Even in the 80s, you had the Bulldogs, the Hart Foundations, the Rockers, some of the better teams in the business; they were never the main event. Whereas in the NWA and the Southern territories, they were the main event. Whether it be the Anderson brothers, whether it be the Midnight Express, or the Freebirds, etcetera. They were main events. Freebirds drew 30,000 people to the Superdome. Midnight Express did 25,000 people. The Andersons drew in the Carolinas for years and years, I could go on. That's not available now to the guys even if they wanted to be tag teams, if they like being a team and they are getting over and the promotion says we have a idea for this one guy and they'll split them up and that's the end of the team. So there are some good teams in Ring of Honor but the classic teams need to be together in different places for years and years and that's just not possible in today's climate.

 

 

BW : With the WWE for instance, they have a tag team championship with The Big Show and Kane and they never defend the belts. So what is the point of tag team belts if you are never going to defend it?

 

JC : And also, this ridiculousness about RAW and Smackdown. There's a Smackdown Champion, there's a RAW Champion, there's a Smackdown Tag Team Champion, there's a RAW Tag Team Champion. There's a Cruiserweight Title in there somewhere. Do they still even have a Women's Championship?

 

BW : Yes.

 

JC : I'm surprised they don't have a Midget Title. Nobody can keep track of it. Who's the champion? We don't know. In the days of "Superstar" Billy Graham and Bruno Sammartino, you knew who the man was. In the days of Harley Race and Terry Funk and Dory Funk Jr. and Ric Flair, you knew who the man was. And those belts would be held for two and three and four years at a time because that guy was the traveling champion who would defend against every challenger. Bruno Sammartino held the belt for eight years, Lou Thesz held the belt one time, I believe for seven or eight years. Two years used to be a short term for a NWA champion, now I understand although I don't watch anymore because it just pisses me off, that the title sometimes change hands twice a week. Who can keep track? Who knows who the man is? No way to build, no way to draw, no way to sell tickets. There is no creditability. The belt becomes a prop rather than a prize. When the thing that every wrestler should strive for, that everybody in the promotion should be fighting for, becomes a prop rather than a prize, than you've lost a chance to sell tickets.

 

 

BW: I've always wondered and you may not have an answer to it and it could just be because there are so many masters to answer to, why don't the agents in the back, the legends like Arn Anderson and Ricky Steamboat, step up and say, 'I hate the way this is going, why can't you bring back the good aspects of wrestling? Actually give back wrestling to the fans?'

 

JC : Well they aren't allowed to have a opinion.

 

BW : I figured that.

 

JC : As a matter of fact, if I wanted to book my wrestling dream card to sell out a arena anywhere in the country, there is better talent watching the monitor in the Gorilla Position backstage than there is in the ring. But they aren't allowed to have a opinion because the boss's daughter, and the boss's son-in-law, and the boss's daughter's best friend and the brother-in-law of the guy who sweeps up in the office; I don't know, they are the ones who are important. They are the ones who are important, they are the ones who decide what goes on. And those that actually have the product knowledge are being handed the turd to polish. And I got news for everybody, you can't polish a turd. If you tell Ricky Steamboat, 'yeah Mr. Steamboat, go out and shepard this bra and panties match,' what's he going to do? If you tell Arn Anderson, 'yeah, we're going to have a suicide, a live sex act, some necrophilia and a little terrorism,' what's he going to do with that? It's the same thing, than oh gosh, the heat is upon them and they lose their jobs that they have richly learned because of the years they've given and the sacrifices they've made to make it to the top in their business. And in most cases, the guys who are agents are guys who have had injuries that have ended their in ring career so now they have to sit in the back and watch this folderol and bite their tongues and are not allowed to have opinions because that would make it wrasslin' which is not in vogue, it's now sports entertainment, which as we all know is a euphemism for bullshit!

 

It's sad but once again, the talent in the industry is sitting behind the monitor, the guys who mostly don't have a clue are in the ring, the top guys who have a clue in the ring, are being phased out and the people who really don't want to be in the business are calling the shots. So is it any wonder that I'm trying to stay in the house and take up framing as a therapeutic hobby?

 

I can't even watch Ohio Valley Wrestling television because it's like watching someone sodomizing my child! That's what the flavor is these days, the wrestling business is a cycle and everything comes around. People forget there was no wrestling in Madison Square Garden between 1939 and 1950, none at all. And World War II, nobody was drawing. Some of the hottest wrestling cities in the country had dead periods for five, six, seven, ten years at a time and then a new promotion came in, it's the scorched Earth policy. It's a chance for everything to start fresh and then a new promotion came in with talent that people could buy into and a television that people could enjoy watching, and a product that people didn't mind paying to see and then there was success again, and after all this is gone, people will still want to see one guy against the other guy, one guy we like, one guy we don't like, they are going to fight, who's going to win. That will never get old, it's been that way since Biblical times and it will never get old. It's just a question of having the right talent and the right ability to promote that talent, and wrestling will never die. But unfortunately, the corpse right now is on life support, it's getting the shit kicked out of it, but one of these days it will come back around, it just remains to be seen who of us who will be young enough to see it when it happens.

 

BW : People who are basically in a lot of ways, people like me, who are not as familiar with Ring of Honor as they are with the other federations, what do you recommend us checking out in past events as far as Ring of Honor?

 

JC : You can go to the Web site, ROHwrestling.com. To me, Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels, AJ Styles, those guys represent what Ring of Honor is all about. It's a lot of guys really trying to innovate a new style, really put some creditability in things, and really work hard to give people their money's worth as far as a contest inside the wrestling ring. And you have a lot people inside the promotion that work hard to give fan's their money's worth, they genuinely care, nobody sits on their ass. Any Ring of Honor event it has its hits and its misses, I'm not saying every match is four stars, but I'm saying overall if you are a wrestling fan, you deserve it, you owe it to yourself, to check the product it out. When they use legends they aren't the butt of jokes. They are treated with reverence. They give young guys a chance to shine, and some of them do, some of them don't. Right now it's the only alternative to the pasteurized product that we are seeing today. It's the love of the fans that go to the show, that work hard that sit there for a four hour show, they work harder sometimes than the guys in the ring do. It's the atmosphere and the excitement; and it's something different, it's the only thing different these days. I don't agree with everything they do, and I wouldn't be Jim Cornette if I did. And I don't say every match is four stars and sometimes I stand back and shake my head, 'oh my God.' But if they didn't take chances, they wouldn't be able to score, they wouldn't be able to hit home runs because if you don't swing for the fences, sometimes you're going to strike out and sometimes you're going to knock it over the fence and a lot of cases that is what they do especially behind those guys that I mentioned. And everybody else in the promotion wants their spot so they are trying to play catch up and working that much harder and it's a alternative and it's something that you deserve as a wrestling fan, you owe it to yourself check it out.

 

BW : I read on the Ring of Honor Web site about upcoming events--

 

JC : The 27th is Dayton, Ohio, the 28th is Cleveland, Ohio, there is a big Wrestlemania weekend event going on in Chicago, it's a double-header, March 30th and April 1st in Chicago, the two days before Wrestlemania where Ring of Honor will have it's best talent, probably it's biggest crowd to date, I was in Chicago with Bill Watts who watched the Samoa Joe and Christopher Daniels match back in November, and they are both in Dayton and Cleveland this weekend, and Bill Watts who wouldn't give a compliment unless he means it, went to find those guys and shook their hands after the match and enjoyed that contest. Bill Watts was in Chicago, and right after Samoa Joe and Christopher Daniels were standing in front of the arena and they called for intermission, all of a sudden, here comes a guy running, full speed toward the front door and I'm thinking, 'my God, he stolen something.' And here comes a bunch of guys chasing him, and I'm like, 'OMG, there is going to be this riot!' They were running to the front door because tickets were going on sale in November for the March Wrestlemania weekend event and they sold something like 400 tickets for the March event, five months in advance. So Chicago, March 30, April 1st, there are going to big crowds, there are going to be great matches, the best of Ring of Honor is going to be on display. You can check out the full schedule, ROHwrestling.com. Once again, Chicago is something anybody in the Midwest that are going to be traveling to Wrestlemania or even if you don't go to Wrestlemania, it's going to be something to shoot for, it's going to be something to see and I'll be there both nights as Commissioner and I'm looking forward to see what they haul out for a show stealer because we want to take some thunder away from Wrestlemania. We may not be the whole thunderstorm, the whole hurricane but we're definitely going to rain on somebody's parade in March in Chicago!

 

BW : Sounds like a good time. Hopefully you will get a good draw in Chicago. Ring of Honor is also in Philadelphia a lot, do you feel the ECW comparisons are accurate, inaccurate or fair?

 

JC : I'm sorry I missed the Philadelphia show due to my fall down the stairs, my klutziness in my own home. It was one of the bigger crowds in Ring of Honor history in Philadelphia, almost a thousand people. I think the ECW comparisons are not fair, there are some aspects of Ring of Honor that are the same as ECW was the attraction, great wrestling matches but they don't do barbedwire, they don't set people on fire, the first time I see people setting people on fire, shooting each other with staple guns then I'm out of there. Because that's ridiculous, it takes no talent, it's not even a stunt show, it's a freak show. And this hardcore wrestling, does more damage than good. How do you follow a shooting with a stabbing? It can only go down. But at the same time, ECW fans in Philadelphia, didn't just like the hardcore wrestling. They liked the technical wrestling, they liked the idea that their intelligence at least wasn't being insulted and they were going to see a show where they got their money's worth and guys worked hard. So in that aspect, yes, Ring of Honor does draw the ECW crowd but they don't come blood thirsty, they come action thirsty. And that's what I appreciate about it. You're not going to see people, there is blood obviously, this ain't ballet. It's a physical sport, but you aren't going to see blood baths or people wrapped up in barbed wire, being set on fire, covered in thumbtacks, shot with staple guns and having AIDS-infested hypodermic needles and leeches. It's not a freak show, it's an athletic competition and that's why I can feel good about lending whatever credibility that I might have to the proceedings.

 

BW : I'm extremely impressed with the product because when I saw it I had no expectations. I feel a lot of wrestling sites, in my opinion, don't cover ROH as a major factor of wrestling.

 

JC : People with Web sites, people with magazines, they want to make money, the same with everybody else so they cover what they perceive is the mainstream promotions, but to me you always have to be ahead of the curve. That's what we tried to be with OVW. We were booking a completely different philosophy than Ring of Honor but it worked for our audience, which is logical, creditable, old style, simple, professional wrestling with clearly defined heels and baby faces and stories that people can follow. Most wrestling fans don't watch television with a pad and a pen and take notes. They want to understand what they are watching. That's the philosophy I used in OVW for our audience here and with Ring of Honor, they are very Internet oriented fan base, and they do keep up and they are well informed so you have to be a little more technical. But in the end result, the people who cover just the mainstream promotions, you live by the sword, you die by the sword. If those promotions become out of vogue, and you are not caught up with the next wave, you gotta play catch up and it's always easier to be in front of the pack looking back than it is trying to catch somebody else's tail.

 

BW : Another aspect of the sport is managing, which you are legendary in, do you feel that is a lost art now and are there any places for managers in Ring of Honor?

 

JC : Actually, I'm glad you asked that, because Prince Nana, I'm actually a very big fan of his. He probably doesn't believe. Managing went by the wayside when being a manager you had to look good in a bikini and had fake breast implants. That's when the art of managing was lost and thank God I was able to switch to announcing and the creative end and other jobs in the business. But Prince Nana, who has done a tremendous job in Ring of Honor, and as Commissioner I sometimes butt heads with him because he wants to take the place over, but I remember when I was the same way and I was butting heads with Bill Watts in Mid-South or whoever the NWA president might have been in the old Crockett days. The best manager always wants to take the place over. You gotta walk in and look at the place and act like you're checking to see if it needs painting. And Prince Nana, in Ring of Honor, has really done a tremendous job and if there are male managers that finally come back and do something else besides stand at ringside in a bikini and look like you made the right choice in plastic surgeons he's going to be leading the pack because he's already got the experience and that's the problem once again it takes experience and not a lot of guys these days getting that because there's not male managers in vogue, but everything's a cycle and everything's going to come back around.

 

BW : I was thinking about Freddie Blassie for instance, what a talent he was and there's nothing like him around him at all, off hand that I can think of.

 

JC : There were so many guys then, that's when everybody was a cowboy, everybody was a individual. There's no Bruiser Brodys, there's no Abdullah the Butchers, there's no Dusty Rhodes, Dick Murdochs, Stan Hansens, Anderson Brothers, there's no individuals, Austin Idol, so many guys, Joe LaDuke, you could go through twenty, thirty, thirty-five years ago, the list of people in wrestling, Wahoo McDaniel, everyone was different, no one fit a cookie cutter mold. Now people unfortunately, are in charge of hiring in a lot of instances, look at the WWE. It looks like the guy in charge of hiring for the WWE was a tall, bland, boring, awkward, oh golly! I'm sorry! Shucks, I forgot!

 

Everybody looks the same, there's nobody to stand out. And different is what makes people take notice. And so there you have it and with that, it might be a good idea to wrap up the interview because I probably have enough heat on myself.

 

BW : Sure that's fine. Anything else you wanted to add about Ring of Honor or wrestling in general?

 

JC : Once again, I hope everybody checks Ring of Honor out because it may not be everybody's cup of tea if you want showbiz wrestling than you know where to go. If you are a wrestling fan and you want an alternative and you want something different, I really think you should check it out because it serves a audience that has been disenfranchised by this showbiz, pasteurized, homogenized wrestling that has been force fed down people's throats today. It's an alternative, it's something different, and as a result, that's why it's growing in popularity and it's bigger than it was two years ago and it will be bigger in two years than it is now.

 

BW : I believe so and unless some crazy, unfortunate thing happens, I think it's going to keep going up.

 

JC : Once again, popularity is brought by familiarity. The more people that see it, the WWE to me right now is turning people off faster than it's turning them on. They are burning through talent, faster than it's getting talent over. Ring of Honor is doing the opposite, there is a wide disparity, and TNA the same, there is a wide disparity between WWE and anybody else in the wrestling game, however, to me, the other guys are turning more people on than they are turning off. And the top guys are turning more people off than turning on, so sooner or later, the gap is going to close and nobody is going to run Vince McMahon out of business, my God, a man with five million dollars in cash sitting in the bank, it ain't going to happen in our lifetime but there is room in the United States of America for three or four solid wrestling promotions and I'd hope that TNA and Ring of Honor will be two of those three or four and I believe they will.

 

BW : And I think competition is healthy for everybody, keeps everybody on their toes, to provide the best product they can bring.

 

JC : Yeah, the worst thing you can do is to say, so I won and there is nothing more for me to prove so I'm going to sit back and play with myself. That's exactly what's going on right now whether they realize it or not.

[Guest MJHimJfadeaway23]

Yes this was excellent. Best read I've had in years as far as wrestling interviews go. I read it last week, I didn't post it cause I thought it had been already.

[Guest teke184]

The sad thing is that I can hear him doing that interview in my head while I'm reading it...

[Guest Mike Campbell]

After reading that interview, Jim Cornette remains my hero. An awesome read of course, it's always a blast to hear Jim tell you exactly what he thinks of the current state of the business.

 

One thing I noticed though, is that Jim has a few favorite theories and phrases, because some stuff he's said here, is stuff I've heard him say before. In particular the line about research vs. plagerisim, which is something he said during his bonus commentary track on the SMW Night of Legends DVD. And the theory on why nobody will catch up to Vince. Those who know how don't have the money, and those with the money don't know how, is taken right from his 2000 Shoot interview.

[Guest Local Jobber R]

The sad thing is that I can hear him doing that interview in my head while I'm reading it...

In my mind's eye Jim Cornette is wearing a bright colored suit and swinging the tennis racket wildly whenever he speaks of sports entertainment.