ROH 2000s vs AJPW 90s

[Riderman Hongo]

I'm on the fence with Gabe booking. At the time, I thought it was pretty great but, by the end it just got a little too busy.

 

One grudge is that I thought Danielson should have gone over Nigel at the one PPV. The World title reign & mythos was treated sacrosanct and whomever was the 2 time champion would be like the greatest of all time. They sorta didn't mention Xavier and Gibson or even Homicide too much though. Everyone was waiting for some one like Dragon, KENTA, Aries etc. to dethrone Nigel. I think Gabe got caught up too much with legacy and it bogged him down.

 

Then, was it Pearce that put the belt on Jerry Lynn?

Lynn was a bad booking choice and thus devalued the belt.

[G. Badger]

 

I'm on the fence with Gabe booking. At the time, I thought it was pretty great but, by the end it just got a little too busy.

One grudge is that I thought Danielson should have gone over Nigel at the one PPV. The World title reign & mythos was treated sacrosanct and whomever was the 2 time champion would be like the greatest of all time. They sorta didn't mention Xavier and Gibson or even Homicide too much though. Everyone was waiting for some one like Dragon, KENTA, Aries etc. to dethrone Nigel. I think Gabe got caught up too much with legacy and it bogged him down.

Then, was it Pearce that put the belt on Jerry Lynn?

 

Lynn was a bad booking choice and thus devalued the belt.

I like Jerry Lynn but, yeah it was like an out of leftfield choice for a transition champion. I guess no worse than Gibson since JL could still go in the ring. However, I think it marks the end of the great or classic era of ROH to me.

 

Also, Gabe's Wikipedia page mentions him working for ECW and sites and RF video shoot.

[fxnj]

 

Weren't they kind of trying to go for that Triple Crown idea when Danielson had the World Title, the FIP Title and the Pure Title?

 

I guess trying to fit into NOAH would be trying to be All Japan.

Yeah, by 2006 NOAH style or Ark Style as I've seen it called was pretty distinct from the stories and layered Kings Road of AJ. That nuanced story and layers of meaning of AJ was never really present in ROH. Perhaps Joe vs Kobashi is the one exception but even then, it's a novelty fantasy. Otherwise, it was the "I'm tougher, I've got a more dangerous move" NOAH style.

 

I think it's really the case where people may want to go back and look at the top 4 or 5 guys per year and see where their influences were...to see if there was a puro company they could have fit into.

 

Not sure if I'd call it a new style if it more or less boils down to marks for 90's AJPW trying and failing to recreate it. The late shodate's "indy road" term seems a good description for the ROH and NOAH stuff.

[G. Badger]

 

 

Weren't they kind of trying to go for that Triple Crown idea when Danielson had the World Title, the FIP Title and the Pure Title?

 

I guess trying to fit into NOAH would be trying to be All Japan.

 

Yeah, by 2006 NOAH style or Ark Style as I've seen it called was pretty distinct from the stories and layered Kings Road of AJ. That nuanced story and layers of meaning of AJ was never really present in ROH. Perhaps Joe vs Kobashi is the one exception but even then, it's a novelty fantasy. Otherwise, it was the "I'm tougher, I've got a more dangerous move" NOAH style.

I think it's really the case where people may want to go back and look at the top 4 or 5 guys per year and see where their influences were...to see if there was a puro company they could have fit into.

Not sure if I'd call it a new style if it more or less boils down to marks for 90's AJPW trying and failing to recreate it. The late shodate's "indy road" term seems a good description for the ROH and NOAH stuff.

It's more nuanced than that though. I think people remember it as NOAH or AJ like because they recall Danielson's later stuff, Joe vs Punk, or Nigel's lariat heavy style or perhaps Davey Richards' thing. Late 2006-end of Nigel's reign was this NOAH period to some extent. Probably beyond that too but, I was done with it by then.

 

Frankly, ROH was a hodge podge of styles depending on who was wrestling. Like Amazing Red, Christopher Daniels, Paul London, Xavier, Punk vs Raven etc. were good examples of this. This is more apparent before KENTA became a mainstay.

 

Per London and Kendrick on a Highspots shoot, Gibson wanted to wrestle like Benoit. Joe, I read somewhere a long time ago, was influenced by Minoru Tanaka and how he would chain moves. Honestly, most guys were probably influenced by Liger, and the NJ jrs. and WCW cruiserweight division, Tajiri, Super Crazy, RVD, Jerry Lynn more than AJPW. Again, it's more apparent before KENTA & Dragon Gate became hot shit then, I think all the guys wanted to do that or Gabe pushed that... Basically NOAH USA. Dragon Gate USA was the fulfillment of that notion.

 

No idea why I've thought about it this much but, for newer fans of wrestling it may prove useful. So, saying ROH was 90's AJPW like is comparable to calling anything stiff or Japanese wrestling in general "Strong Style" nowadays. It's way too broad of a brush...