smkelly Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Tournaments like Top / Best of the Super Juniors, RWTL, Champions Carnival, G-1 Climax, etc, how are they determined? Is it a point system, most wins, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zander Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Sometimes the tournaments are knockout, with brackets and quarters and semi finals and so on. More commonly, though, they work with a round-robin system, which will usually have one or two blocks. In each block, every wrestler or team will face each other with a 30 minute time limit in place and one point awarded for a draw, with two for a win and none for a loss. When all group matches have been fought, in some cases, such as in the old Real World Tag Leagues, the team with most points wins. Again though, more often there will be a final between the top two wrestlers or the winners of each block. Usually the G1, and I think the current RWTL too, has semi finals as well, where the winner of each block faces the second placed wrestler in the other block with the winners of those matches advancing to the final. But yeah, generally it's round-robin at the start with 2/1/0 points possible to be gained from each match. Hope that made some degree of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted February 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Yes, it made sense, and thank you for your help. I appreciate it. Just to clarify, something like this: Block 1: Tom John Tim Brad So Tom would have to face the other three, same with John, Tim, and Brad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zander Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Yes. There's certainly been a few exceptions, but generally every wrestler will face every other wrestler in their block once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 An example of a round robin league with two brackets (1996 G1 Climax) and a knockout tourney (J Crown) can be found here: New Japan: G1 Climax 1996 Series Go to the bottom for the first show in the series. Then block out the G1 in a text file to see how it's booked. You can see how the B Block is intricately booked to have three wrestlers (Chono, Mutoh and Koshinaka) coming into the last night with 4 points. The A Block was impacted by Hirata blowing out his knee in his first match. If I recall correctly, Choshu wasn't suppose to "run the table" in the A Block, leaving the matches in the Block on the final night meaningless. In addition to the "booking to take it down to the last match" aspect, there also are the storyline aspects of the booking that reach backwards, and project foward. The J Crown has its own booking aspects as well. All Japan's Carival in the 90s was usually a League Plus One - everyone in one "group" in a league, then the top two facing each other in a Final: 1995 Champion Carnival The 1991 and 1992 were in two blocks like the G1. Anyway, a big league like that has it's own booking aspects, again trying to get it to come down to the last night prior to the finals. In this case, going into the Final Night: 17 Misawa 15 Kawada 15 Taue 14 Hansen Misawa is "in the clubhouse" (not working a singles match in the final night of the league) and at worst in a three-way tie for first if both Taue and Kawada win. Hansen has the biggest "gimme" in Jun. He win, goes to 16 points. If Taue and Kawada lose, he's in the final with Misawa. If one eats a loss while the other draws, there would be a playoff for second to face Misawa in the Final. If both draw, it's a three-way playoff. Pretty much anyone who knew anything about All Japan at the time knew that *none* of those things were going to happen. Hansen at 16 was done. Taue's win over Kawada and then draw with Misawa give him 15 points going into the final night with a "semi-gimme". Ace isn't going to beat him. There's a chance that Ace may pull an upset and draw him, much like Ace drew Kobashi earlier in the series. Taue wins, which pushes him to 17 to tie Misawa in 1st and lock up a spot at Budokan. Kawada now needs to beat Kobashi to make the Final a three-way mini-round robin. At that point, it had never happened in Carny history. There had been two ties for 2nd place, forcing a playoff for 2nd, but there never had been a three way tie on top. So if you were in the stands and a student of All Japan history and Baba's booking style, you would think it's about a 95%+ certainty that Kawada isn't winning this match. The tricky part is that to this point, Kobashi had never pinned Kawada in a singles match. They'd gone to a 60 minute draw earlier in the year in a Triple Crown match, which was Kobashi's high watermark in a singles against him. So a Kobashi win in this setting wasn't very likely. 92.5% Draw 5.0% Kobashi win 2.5% Kawada win And they go to a draw, letting Misawa and Taue be the Final. The Real World Tag League from 1977-94 was simply a "league" without a Final. In other words, the team with the most points at the end of the league was the winner. The "Final Night" was simply the last night of the round robin, usually loaded up with two matches that "mattered" where top teams faced with the championship still in doubt. 1991 would probably be the best example of booking one of these to keep it in "doubt" right down to the end with a lot of teams having a chance. Puroresufan doesn't have the full results of that so you can see how it plays out. But, they came into the final night: 20 Stan Hansen & Dan Spivey 19 Terry Gordy & Steve Williams 19 Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada 18 Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue 18 Giant Baba & Andre The Giant Baba & Andre won a "gimmie" to go to 20. Jumbo & Taue beat Hansen & Spivey to leave both of them at 20. If Gordy & Williams vs. Misawa & Kawada went to a draw, it would be a five-way tie at 20 and an utter cluckerfuck playoff. Pretty much everyone knew that wasn't going to happen. So the Gordy & Doc vs. Misawa & Kawada winner would end up the champs. Misawa & Kawada had lifted the Tag Titles from Gordy & Doc ealier in the year, then gotten the big Budokan defense over Jumbo & Taue in September. Likely results: 90% Gordy & Doc payback win 10% Misawa & Kawada monster push 0% draw for five-way playoff Gordy & Doc won. All Japan was nicely predictable back in that era. Often times it was predictable going into a league. But if it wasn't, it usually would be at some point as the league unfolded. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted February 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Wow. That's definitely more than I ever expected, thank you John! I'd shake your hand if I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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