Dylan Waco

I will message Dean as that thread damn near crashes my comp at this point.

I saw the Naito match and while it was better than I expected I didn't think it was even close to being great match. I am not keen on the idea of watching a Tanahashi match but I feel obligated given the circumstances so I will. So we have three matches listed. Does three matches really make someone the worker of the year? Or are there others I should see? Edit: Someone link me to that Tanahashi match

I am obviously on a hiding to nothing debating this here. I actually don't understand what you are saying here. As in literally I don't know what you are saying I'm also not looking for a debate. I'm quite serious in asking what I need to see. I will grant that I'm not likely to think it's as good as you do because I think most modern Japan is boring/comically bad, but if this guy is being talked up as some sort of shoe-in among WON faithful I should probably at least give the matches a chance

What has Okada done outside of that one decent enough match with the dub step dance routine finishing stretch? I actually think he's perfectly fine for a modern day Japanese worker, but I have no clue what other matches of his are being talked up. What do I need to see?

This is a good point but then you have the issue of rep/footage. The two most obvious examples to me are Buddy Rose and El Dandy. Rose was ALWAYS regarded as a great worker it's just that he was seen as a Ray Stevens type where we didn't have the footage so we would never really get to see his complete greatness. Portland footage was considered an unattainable holy grail for years, but Rose was always, always, always discussed as a high end worker even in the absence of this footage. Now the footage is out there. There is a great set that covers his run that is relatively easy to get. And yet many of the same people who were calling Buddy awesome without the footage now say it doesn't matter what conclusions we draw now because of "the context of the time." So in the case of Buddy rep doesn't help him even though he had, because the footage wasn't there/spread around enough for him to have a half dozen or so matches for people to go nuts for. Now that it is they aren't going to watch it even if it confirms something they already believe(d). Dandy is another guy where we have way more of his prime that is in broader circulation now, but among Lucha fans he seems to have been regarded as a tremendous talent during his prime. I talked to two very knowledgeable Lucha fans and voters today who said they saw Dandy as close to a slam dunk and would definitely vote for him. But Lucha is underrepresented because it's not as well followed by WON readers as Japan and even though those in the know regard Dandy as a great worker and did at the time the footage that is out there now is not going to convince people that won't watch it.

We are more than 2/3 through the year. If you are using WON standards we are 3/4's through the relevant "voting" period. I honestly have no clue who my pick is for either of the "wrestler of the year" awards. LOU THESZ/RIC FLAIR AWARD contenders???? Um..Punk? Bryan? Cena? I guarantee you someone will try and make a case for Aries and while I think the guy has had a remarkable run given where he works, he has no record as a draw. No one in Japan stands out. Mexico? I don't know of anyone being red hot. I really see no strong pick for this award. MOST OUTSTANDING WRESTLER contenders.... Negro Casas, Finlay and Derrick King would be my top picks off hand, but Finlay is basically done, Casas hasn't popped up that much the last couple of months and no one aside from me, Dean and Phil Schneider even watches Derrick King matches. I'm sure Bryan will win this and I don't think he's an awful pick, but I don't think he's a great one either. Has Sami Calihan done anything the second half of the year?

Bam Bam was EASILY the least likely to work hard on the house shows of anyone in the company. He would often just go out there, run through a couple of spots, go home and look annoyed the entire time.

Eh, at best all you can really say is Public voters on a statement like that I've been arguing and listening to the comments of public voters for over a decade. I have no reason to believe public voters are disproportionately more likely to not look at those things. In fact I would guess the opposite would be true as people doing the hardcore research tend to want to get their work out in the open.

The drawing power argument is not one that I think a lot of voters really study or think about. There are very few voters that comb through results, look at trends, et. Or at least there are very few PUBLIC voters that do those things. In general voters tend to look more at things like star power and the old "does this wrestler FEEL like an HoFer." That may just be my perception, but I don't think it is as I've debated the HoF with voters for over a decade now.

I don't think Sting should get in, but I think he will eventually get in. I don't think it will be this year. He's also case of someone where I wouldn't be that worked up if he did get in mainly because I think it's inevitable.

FWIW, there was an old Steve Sims article where he talked about peak Dandy drawing 17,000-18,000 fans at Arena Mexico "more than once". Anyone got any idea where this article would be?

This is a spin off question from the Hennig stuff but is there anyone who is not currently in that you would/could vote for solely/almost entirely on work? Personally I wouldn't vote for anyone SOLELY on work, but if pressed to the name the guys who aren't in and could hang there hat on that case I'd say.... Danielson, Windham, Morton, Dundee, Volk Han, El Dandy, Fujiwara To be honest I don't really think Fujiwara belongs on this list as I consider him to be influential, but I wanted an excuse to mention him . I didn't include Buddy only because I think being the anchor of Portland is a significant "other" aspect to his candidacy. Morton has influence and some drawing power. Of course you could make a case supporting Dundee based on other things. I'm ignorant on Dandy. To be honest all of these guys have "extra" stuff you could point to that is notable other than maybe Windham and MAYBE Han. Anyhow the point is that IF I believed in voting purely on work - and I don't - I think I'd vote all of those guys in just on that alone Am I missing any other obvious ones who aren't already in.

This is not meant to be offensive to Bix who absolutely should have a ballot, but there is a big difference between Yohe and Bix. Yohe is a true blue historian. Bix is an encyclopedia of knowledge on things and extremely knowledgable, but Bix isn't writing bio's on the pioneers or digging up records on Hans Schmidt's drawing power. That's not a knock on Bix. It's just that they are different things

Bam Bam was really lazy at times in ECW. Like incredibly lazy. I don't really blame him since god knows he was making shit, but it doesn't help his rep with me at all. I think on some level Bam Bam is the biggest waste of talent of all time. He clearly had talent, but he did not maximize it.

I love Hennig but his WWF run is really lacking in high end stuff. There are glimpses but not much over all. One big difference is that he was non-stop stooge. No offense to speak of during his WWF run. Even when in there with another good worker we rarely saw him working at full strength when he was in control. Will and others I know just think he was a much better face, but I'm not buying that because his run as heel champ in the AWA was really great. I think the Bret matches are good but overrated and while there are other matches I enjoy (v. Ron Garvin, w/Poffo v. Warrior/Hogan, v. Doink) I think he is the ultimate example of a guy who fell off a cliff as a worker when he went to the WWF. If you look at it year by year it's not easy to find a clear cut year where he would be a top five worker in the U.S let alone worldwide. I don't think Brock will get in.....yet. I think Brock is hurt because those bitter about the other MMA guys being in, those who opposed Angle's early induction, those like KrisZ who don't vote for active performers and other groups are a going to be more than enough to offset those who will vote for him because of his UFC run. I have been conversant with several voters this year, including a few newer voters. Not a single person has done anything other than scoff at Brock. If I had to guess he'll get between 30-40%.

I have absolutely no interest in listening to Bryan talk about this. I hope he was joking because there is a good debate to be had there and it should be had. I want to hear someone duke it out on the Euro candidates who has the knowledge to make real cases for or against these guys.

I'm sure Dave likes Perfect era Hennig more than me. Do I think he thought he was top five in the World during that period? I very much doubt it.

I wouldn't say 1-10 is easy, but it's true that there are only so many real contenders for those slots. That bottom level is definitely one that could be filled with any number of guys

What years was Hennig a top five guy on the planet? I have come to love Hennig from 82-88. He may have been a top five U.S. worker for a couple of those years. But if you factor in Japan and Mexico? I guess it's possible, but it would take a lot of leg work to convince me. And I'm one of the bigger Hennig boosters from that era online.

That's the St. Paul Auditorium for the record. And that is pretty much the absolute max you could pack in. Very similar in size and dimension to the local building in Charleston WCW used to run all the time. You are right about the Minneapolis Auditorium

The Auditorium sat 7300 absolute capacity for wrestling.

1975 1/9/75 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena The Crusher & Ivan Putski & Larry Hennig beat Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens & Boris Breznikoff 2/3 1. Heenan pinned Hennig 2. Hennig won 2nd fall 3. Putski pinned Breznikoff Referee Merv Hunter Billy Graham no contest Baron Von Raschke 12:00 Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell drew Lars Anderson & Buddy Wolff when the time limit expired in the 3rd fall Geoff Portz beat Ivan Crankovic 11:00 Scotty Campbell beat Bob Tuck Att: 7,000 There first listed date of the year. This is a pretty strong number for Winnipeg during this period, though the Flyers are presented as more of a solid mid-card act than anything else here. 1/11/75 Peoria, IL AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell Cowboy Lang beat ?? Geoff Portz beat Khosrow Vaziri Tom Demarco beat Raul Guzman Jesus talk about a one match show. I am a Cowboy Lange fan, but when that is your semi-main things are looking rough. 1/19/75 Duluth, MN @ Arena Baron Von Raschke beat Superstar Billy Graham COR (ref was Bullinski) Ivan Putski beat Horst Hoffman dq Larry Hennig beat Big K Khosrow (Carmen) Vaziri beat George Gadaski Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Rock Riddle & Buddy Wolff Boris Breznikoff vs Mystery Opponent 2/1/75 Milwaukee, WI @ Auditorium Superstar Billy Graham beat Horst Hoffman Dusty Rhodes beat Nick Bockwinkel Baron Von Raschke beat Ivan Putski dq Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Boris Breznikoff & Bobby Heenan COR Geoff Portz beat Rock Riddle Att: 6,112 sellout I think it’s worth noting that Dusty v. Bock was not on top here to give you an idea of how AWA shows would often times not officially be headlined by matches that are pretty clearly headline level matches. Heenan/Breznikoff was a fairly common opponent for the Flyers at this point and Greg was often working Bobby in singles matches on cards where he and Brunzell weren’t booked as a team. 2/6/75 Denver, CO @ Auditorium Arena AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell 2/3 1. Brunzell pinned Bockwinkel 2. Bockwinkel won by pin 3. Bockwinkel won by pin Superstar Billy Graham ddq Baron Von Raschke when both men charged at referee Danny Loos Boris Breznikoff beat Geoff Portz 12:01 Dusty Rhodes beat Buddy Wolff via pin in 11:24 Major market main event here. Would be nice to have a number of course, but you are starting to see this match up creep into the top slot of more towns. 2/7/75 Sheboygan, WI @ Municipal Auditorium Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens on a 3rd fall dq 1. Gagne & Brunzell won 1st fall in 6:14 2. Bockwinkel & Stevens won 2nd fall in 13:20 3. Stevens sluuged the referee Horst Hoffman beat Larry Hennig via pin in 14:55 Dusty Rhodes beat Buddy Wolff via pin in 18:42 Geoff Portz beat Khosrow Vaziri via pin in 19:45 att: 2,592 Like for example Sheboygan  Pretty sure I’ve seen figures considerably higher than this in Sheboygan though I could be wrong and this is not a particularly strong card. 2/8/75 Minneapolis, MN @ Auditorium Horst Hoffman beat Superstar Billy Graham dq when Dusty Rhodes interfered Baron Von Raschke beat Dusty Rhodes Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Hennig Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Boris Breznikoff & Bobby Heenan Bull Bullinski beat Rock Riddle Down the card some at the home base. 2/11/75 Moline, IL @ Wharton Field House Dusty Rhodes beat Horst Hoffman Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell & Larry Hennig beat Nick Bockwinkel & Boris Breznikoff & Bobby Heenan One of the two matches listed, which tells you this probably had a weak undercard. 2/13/75 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Superstar Billy Graham & Dusty Rhodes beat Baron Von Raschke & Horst Hoffman Ivan Putski beat Nick Bockwinkel dq when Bockwinkel jumped off the top rope on to Putski Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Larry Heiniemi & Buddy Wolff when Gagne beat Heiniemi by submission with the sleeper hold in 28:00 Larry Hennig drew Boris Breznikoff 20:00 Geoff Portz beat Khosrow Vaziri Ivan Crankovic beat Joe Corona att: 5,118 Attendance is back down to Earth in Winnipeg with no Crusher on the card, though this is still not a bad number. 2/15/75 St Paul, MN @ Civic Center AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell on a 3rd fall dq when Gagne came off the top rope on to Bockwinkel Dusty Rhodes beat Horst Hoffman Billy Robinson beat Larry Heiniemi Geoff Portz drew Buddy Wolff Khosrow Vaziri beat Paul Perschmann Att: 4,214 This is not a good number for St. Paul in this era, but not a terrible one either. I would note this is a Civic Center show which meant a lot of empty seats. Curious why they were back and forth between buildings in the Twin Cities area so much during this period. 2/18/75 Omaha, NE @ Civic Auditorium Baron Von Raschke beat Ivan Putski Billy Robinson beat Boris Breznikoff dq Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Hennig Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Paul Perschmann & Buddy Wolff Horst Hoffman beat Geoff Portz Strange card on paper as Hoffman who had been working some up top is working bare bottom, Bock is in the middle and a battle of the ethnics is up top. Looks sort of like a “throw stuff to the wall and see where it sticks” show. 2/20/75 Cheyenne, WY @ Storey Gym Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens 2/3 Boris Breznikoff beat Larry Hennig Geoff Portz vs Buddy Wolff Khosrow Vaziri vs Joe Scarpello 2/25/75 Moline, IL @ Wharton Field House AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell Billy Robinson beat Bobby Heenan Pepper Gomez beat Don Fargo Bull Bullinski beat Rock Riddle Couple of main events here in the b-towns. It’s notable that Wharton held 6k plus for wrestling though I don’t know of any figures from that venue. 3/1/75 Milwaukee, WI @ Auditorium AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell on a 3rd fall COR Baron Von Raschke no contest Andre the Giant Billy Robinson drew Boris Breznikoff 20:00 Horst Hoffman beat Larry Hennig Geoff Portz beat Frank Hill Dick Reynolds beat Rock Riddle Att: 6,112 sellout A sellout for the Flyers as main eventers which is great BUT – this is Milwaukee which was still the AWA’s hottest/most consistent town at that point AND Andre is on the show. Andre is a massive draw in the AWA literally and figuratively. 3/5/75 Omaha, NE @ Civic Auditorium Baron Von Raschke & Horst Hoffman beat Superstar Billy Graham & Ivan Putski 2/3 1. Putski beat Von Raschke in 6:15 2. Raschke beat Putski in 10:58 3. Hoffman beat Graham in 25:32 Andre the Giant beat Boris Breznikoff via pin in 13:02 Greg Gagne beat Buddy Wolff dq in 26:01when Wolff tossed Gagne over the top rope Jim Brunzell beat Billy Howard (sub Khosrow Vaziri) via pin in 18:30 Bobby Heenan beat Bull Bullinski via pin in 16:10 att: 8,420 I included this to give further evidence of Andre as drawing card and to show what the Flyers were doing on a lot of these shows where they weren’t paired with each other. 3/6/75 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Dusty Rhodes & Billy Graham & Andre the Giant beat Baron Von Raschke & Horst Hoffman & Boris Breznikoff when Rhodes pinned Breznikoff in 30:00 Non Title Handicap Match, If Bockwinkel & Stevens can't beat Gagne & Brunzell within the 20:00 time limit, Greg & Jim will be declared the winners and will earn a Tag Title shot on a future Winnipeg card. Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell drew AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens 20:00 so Greg & Jim were declared the winners Billy Robinson beat Buddy Wolff 19:00 Ivan Putski beat Geoff Portz 9:00 Ali Vaziri beat Bobby Jones 7:00 Scotty Campbell drew Joe Corona I almost guarantee you this card did close to 10k as Andre seemed to do particularly well in Winnipeg. I think it speaks well of the Flyers that they are going to the as opponents of Stevens/Bock in almost all of the major towns at this point. Here they set up an angle for a future title match and while they are clearly not the main drawing card on the show, it’s safe to say it was a match hat had fan interest and was positioned to try and get a good number when Andre wasn’t around. 3/14/75 Rockford, IL @ Boylan High School Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens dq Andre The Giant beat Boris Breznikoff Billy Robinson drew Baron Von Raschke Buddy Wolff beat Khosrow Vaziri Another main event. 3/15/75 Chicago, IL @ International Amphitheatre AWA Champion Verne Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel Billy Robinson beat Dr. Big Bill Miller Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Ray Stevens & Bobby Heenan Handicap Match Chris Taylor beat Jimmy Valiant & Paul Perschmann Mike Snyder beat Rock Riddle Bobby Bold Eagle beat Johnny Kace These Chicago lineups were extremely interesting as they were often double, triple and later even quadruple main events of sorts. They also brought in/back a lot of the older talents for these shows as they did with Miller here in the semi-main. Heenan subbing for Bock so he could get a title shot makes sense and would have worked well as a match just below top billing. 3/16/75 Duluth, MN @ Arena Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens on a 3rd fall dq Ivan Putski beat Boris Breznikoff Handicap Match Chris Taylor beat Rock Riddle & Bobby Heenan Geoff Portz drew Khosrow Vaziri You know the drill – another market where these teams work each other up top. 3/25/75 Omaha, NE @ Civic Auditorium Baron Von Raschke beat Superstar Graham via pin in the 3rd fall after Horst Hoffman distracted Graham allowing Raschke to hit Graham from behind 1. Raschke beat Graham a face claw 2. Graham pinned Raschke after of series of elbow smashes 3. Raschke pinned Graham Billy Robinson beat Nick Bockwinkel via pin Horst Hoffman beat Khosrow Vaziri (sub Chris Taylor) Boris Breznikoff & Bobby Heenan beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell Joe Scarpello (sub Khosrow Vaziri) beat Rock Riddle Note: Taylor was reportedly snowbound in Michigan Bizarre to see how everyone gets booked in Omaha relative to some of the other towns. The Flyers jobbing to that team at this point is just odd. 3/27/75 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell on a 3rd fall COR 1. Brunzell pinned Stevens in 8:00 2. Stevens pinned Gagne at the 10:00 mark 3. Gagne & Brunzell were counted out of the ring Billy Robinson beat Boris Breznikoff 20:00 Dusty Rhodes beat Baron Von Raschke via pin in 14:00 after an elbow smash Chris Taylor beat Rock Riddle via pin in 6:00 after a body slam Buddy Wolff beat Scotty Campbell 12:30 AWA Women's Champion Betty Niccoli beat Jean Antone 10:00 Jean Antone beat Pam Riddel to earn a shot against AWA Women's Champion Betty Niccoli Shame we don’t have a number for this as it was built as the main event from the previous show with Andre. No way they did an Andre level number but something 6500 or up would have to be seen as a strong plus. 4/12/75 St Paul, MN @ Auditorium Superstar Billy Graham & Dusty Rhodes & Andre the Giant beat Baron Von Raschke & Horst Hoffman & Boris Breznikoff 2/3 Nick Bockwinkel beat Billy Robinson dq when Robinson tossed Bockwinkel over the top rope Chris Taylor beat Geoff Portz Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Kenny Jay & George Gadaski Khosrow Vaziri beat Rock Riddle att: 5,340 Note: Robinson reportedly received a $500 fine for tossing Bockwinkel over the top rope Gotta love the Flyers getting a random undercard match v. two career jobbers on the home front. 4/22/75 Moline, IL @ Wharton Field House Dusty Rhodes & Superstar Billy Graham beat AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens dq Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Horst Hoffman & Buddy Wolff Ivan Putski beat Boris Breznikoff Geoff Portz beat Rock Riddle 4/26/75 Minneapolis, MN @ Auditorium Billy Robinson beat Nick Bockwinkel Bobby Heenan beat Ivan Putski COR Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell drew Horst Hoffman & Buddy Wolff Dusty Rhodes beat Boris Breznikoff Khosrow Vaziri beat Billy Howard Geoff Portz beat Rock Riddle Att: 3,997 The Twin Cities shows continue to be sort of middling at best. I could be wrong on the capacity in these venues of course, but this seems like mediocre number for the home base. 5/1/75 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Dusty Rhodes & Ivan Putski (sub Billy Graham) beat AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens 2-0 to win the title 1. Rhodes beat Stevens in 5:00 2. Putski beat Bockwinkel The decision was overturned days later as manager Bobby Heenan stated that Bockwinkel and Stevens were contracted to defend against Rhodes and Billy Graham. The belts were returned to Bockwinkel & Stevens as a result. British Empire Champion Billy Robinson beat Guy Mitchell 28:00 Handicap Match, Putski must beat Heenan with in the 10 minute time limit or Ivan will lose the match Ivan Putski drew Bobby Heenan 10:00 so Heenan was declared the winner Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell drew Buddy Wolff (sub Baron Von Raschke) & Horst Hoffman when the 30:00 time limit expired in the 3rd fall 1. Brunzell won 1st fall 2. Wolff beat Brunzell 3. The time limit expired before either team could score the winning fall Moose Morowski beat Yugo Babich 11:00 This is a bit of a tumble from the semi-main and main on the previous two Winnipeg shows, though not uncommon for even a hot tag team in the AWA. 5/17/75 Davenport TV Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Rock Riddle & Julio Rodriguez Horst Hoffman beat ? Cortez Ivan Putski beat Angel Rivera Nick Bockwinkel beat Fred Torres Billy Robinson beat Paul Perschmann Tossed this in here to note they were working almost exclusively on tv as tag teams during this period, despite the fact that they weren’t tagging on every show. I.E they were still being presented as a tag team during this entire run. 5/18/75 Green Bay, WI @ Brown County Veteran’s Memorial Arena Loaded Glove Match Dusty Rhodes (sub Superstar Billy Graham) beat Baron Von Raschke Handicap Match, Putski must win in 10 minutes or lose the bout Bobby Heenan beat Ivan Putski COR Billy Robinson (sub Dusty Rhodes) beat Nick Bockwinkel via pin Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Buddy Wolff & Boris Breznikoff 1. Wolff & Breznikoff won 1st fall 2. Gagne & Brunzell won 2nd fall 3. Gagne & Brunzell won 3rd fall Horst Hoffman beat Geoff Portz with the claw hol That main event sounds hilarious. The Flyers are working underneath on a show that looks pretty wild on paper. 5/24/75 Peoria, IL Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens dq Ivan Putski beat Boris Breznikoff Billy Robinson beat Horst Hoffman Buddy Wolff beat Khosrow Vaziri They main event in Peoria again. 5/29/75 Omaha, NE @ Civic Auditorium Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens dq when Ray jumped off the top rope onto referee Al DeRusha Baron Von Raschke beat Billy Robinson dq when Robinson tossed Baron over the top rope Chris Taylor (sub Ivan Putski) beat Boris Breznikoff via pin in 7:26 Buddy Wolff beat Bull Bullinski via pin in 10:20 Khosrow Vaziri beat Rock Riddle via pin in 14:50 att: 3,612 Far from a high number in Omaha but it’s very hard to say how good or bad it was for the year at this point. The Flyers have not been booked strongly in Omaha all year so it’s somewhat surprising they got the main event here. 5/31/75 Minneapolis, MN @ Auditorium AWA Tag Team Champions Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat Dusty Rhodes & Larry Hennig Billy Robinson no contest Baron Von Raschke Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Rock Riddle & Frankie Hill Khosrow Vaziri drew Buddy Wolff att: 3,183 I don’t see any way this could be considered a good figure. Flyers are really doing nothing here. 6/8/75 Duluth, MN @ Arena Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Ray Stevens & Bobby Heenan Dusty Rhodes beat Buddy Wolff dq Billy Robinson beat Ali Vaziri Bull Bullinski beat Paul Perschmann Another main event in Duluth, this time with Heenan in the Bock slot. 6/12/75 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena AWA Champion Verne Gagne beat Billy Robinson COR Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Bobby Heenan & Ray Stevens Dusty Rhodes beat Siegfried Steinke Ivan Putski beat Buddy Wolff dq Roddy Piper beat Scotty Campbell Att: 3,800 Poor number for Winnipeg even in the Summer. When you consider that this had a Verne title match it’s even worse. Bock isn’t on the show and you wonder if he would have made a difference. 6/28/75 St Paul, MN @ Auditorium AWA Champion Verne Gagne no contest Baron Von Raschke 25:00 Chris Taylor beat Mad Dog Vachon COR 15:20 Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Mitsu Arakawa & Kim Duk Larry Hennig beat Ivan Crankovic Bull Bullinski beat Frank Hill On the home front the Flyers get a solid mid-card match against evil foreigners, including something of a regional legend in Arakawa. 7/11/75 Denver, CO @ Auditorium Arena Dusty Rhodes beat Ray Stevens 2/3 Handicap Match Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel Ivan Putski beat Baron Von Raschke dq in 13:28 Jim Brunzell drew Bobby Heenan Kim Duk beat Bull Bullinski in 10:34 Wanted to include this again to show what they were doing on some of these cards where they weren’t booked together. Lots of cases of one guy working Heenan and other paired against Bock or someone else. 7/16/75 Davenport, IA @ John O'Donnell Stadium Bobby Heenan handcuffed to Larry Hennig at ringside AWA Champion Verne Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell & Billy Robinson beat Mitsu Arakawa & Kim Duk & Buddy Wolff Baron Von Raschke beat Larry Hennig dq This is a pretty strong outdoor card on paper though the full undercard isn’t listed. The Flyers are in a novelty 6-man semi-main that looks fun on paper. 7/20/75 Green Bay, WI @ Brown County Veteran’s Memorial Arena Chris Taylor & Ivan Putski & Dusty Rhodes beat Nick Bockwinkel & Bobby Heenan & Baron Von Raschke (sub Ray Stevens) Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell drew Buddy Wolff & Kim Duk Jimmy Valiant (sub Baron Von Raschke) beat Larry Hennig Bull Bullinski beat George Gadaski (sub Paul Perschmann) Another strange card. 7/22/75 Omaha, NE @ Civic Auditorium Verne Gagne & Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel & Bobby Heenan Baron Von Raschke beat Larry Hennig Billy Robinson beat Paul Perschmann Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant drew Chris Taylor & Jim Brunzell Buddy Wolff beat Bull Bullinskiat Paul Perschmann I note this because Greg was moved up to some main slots teaming with Verne during this period and this is a good example. The Valiants were being groomed for a solid run, so Jim isn’t exactly being wasted. 8/13/75 Pekin, IL Nick Bockwinkel beat Billy Robinson Baron Von Raschke beat Ivan Putski Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant beat Jos Leduc & Pampero Firpo Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Kim Duk & Buddy Wolff Working a spot show opener is pretty rare for the High Flyers at this point but there you have it. 8/19/75 Omaha, NE @ Civic Auditorium AWA Champion Verne Gagne no contest Billy Robinson Loser Leaves Town Baron Von Raschke beat Ivan Putski Nick Bockwinkel beat Bull Bullinski Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Kim Duk & Buddy Wolff Bobby Heenan beat Paul Perschmann (sub Jos Leduc) They are working the Duk/Wolff team on a lot of shows, presumably to get re-established after failing to capture the tag titles in a program that played in every market of note. 8/23/75 Davenport TV Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Bob Amel & Juan Hernandez Buddy Wolff beat George Gadaski Dusty Rhodes beat Armando Rodriguez Bobby Heenan beat Kenny Jay Bull Bullinski beat Caesar Pabon Another example of the Flyers teaming on tv which shows how they were being presented by the promotion. 8/29/75 Rockford, IL @ Boylan High School Nick Bockwinkel & Baron Von Raschke beat Larry Hennig & Billy Robinson 2/3 Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell dq Jos Leduc beat Bobby Heenan Kim Duk beat Khosrow Vaziri The Valiants move into a more featured slot v. The Flyers albeit it on a smaller show. 9/6/75 Chicago, IL @ International Amphitheatre AWA Tag Team Champions Dick the Bruiser & the Crusher beat the Legionairres Goulet & Lebeouf Baron Von Raschke beat Billy Robinson dq Ox Baker beat Moose Cholak Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell drew Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant Pampero Firpo beat Kim Duk Sailor Art Thomas beat Bill White Another loaded Chicago show with several non-regulars. Bruiser/Crusher have the belts at this point, which means the Flyers are in a holding pattern. But there are worse teams you could work on a major show in the 70’s than the Valiants. 9/7/75 Green Bay, WI @ Brown County Veteran’s Memorial Arena Baron Von Raschke beat Billy Robinson via pin in 24:51 Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant on a 3rd fall dq Nick Bockwinkel beat Pampero Firpo COR in 20:20 Jos Leduc beat Buddy Wolff via pin in 16:31 Att: 3,638 9/9/75 Omaha, NE @ Civic Auditorium Baron Von Raschke beat Billy Robinson when Raschke made Robinson submit with a Claw Hold in the 3rd fall at 30:10 Pampero Firpo no contest Nick Bockwinkel after Bobby Heenan interfered in 7:28 Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell 17:30 Kim Duk beat Bull Bullinski 12:10 Jos Leduc beat Buddy Wolff 16:10 att: 3,342 9/11/75 Winnipeg, Mantoba, Canada @ Arena Nick Bockwinkel ddq Pampero Firpo Johnny Valiant & Jimmy Valiant beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell Baron Von Raschke beat Gene Kiniski dq Kim Duk beat Joe Corona Jos Leduc beat Ivan Crankovic Att: 4,000+ Flyers v. Valiants is going around the horn to all the major loop towns a the semi-main level. Presumably this is being done to groom the Valiants for a run v. Crusher/Bruiser but it shows the worth of this relatively young team that they are getting this run and seen as a team you have to go through to get to the belts. None of the numbers on these shows is particularly impressive. 10/3/75 Denver, CO @ Auditorium Arena Billy Robinson beat AWA Champion Verne Gagne dq in 20:14 when Gagne tossed Robinson over the top rope The Crusher beat Nick Bockwinkel dq Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell Kim Duk beat Pampero Firpo dq 10/8/75 Duluth, MN Cage Match Baron Von Raschke beat Billy Robinson Pampero Firpo beat Buddy Wolff Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant beat Greg Gagne &Jim Brunzell 2/3 Jos Leduc beat Kim Duk Khosrow Vaziri beat George Gadask Two more places they take the match here. Notable that they are working a gimmick main event in Duluth and Denver has a title match and Crusher/Bock. Really seems like they are trying to pop business however possible here. 10/11/75 St Paul, MN AWA Champion Verne Gagne beat Baron Von Raschke Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell Jos Leduc beat Boris Breznikoff Bull Bullinski beat Frank Hill Bob Slaughter beat Dick Reynolds att: 4,526 This is actually a pretty good number by the standards of some of the other shows from the Twin Cities that year. 10/19/75 Green Bay, WI @ Brown County Veteran’s Memorial Arena Jimmy Valiant beat The Crusher via pin Baron Von Raschke beat Pampero Firpo dq Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell drew Nick Bockwinkel & Bobby Heenan when the time limit expired in the 3rd fall Johnny Valiant beat Bull Bullinski via pin Crusher v. Jimmy to set up the inevitable tag feud in the main event here, so Bock and Heenan draw the Flyers card. 10/24/75 Denver, CO @ Auditorium Arena AWA Tag Team Champions Dick the Bruiser & the Crusher beat Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens 2/3 Baron Von Raschke beat Pampero Firpo Jos Leduc beat Kim Duk Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell Odd that they are working this far down the card in Denver at this point. 10/25/75 Milwaukee, WI @ Auditorium AWA Champion Verne Gagne beat Kim Duk via pin Johnny Valiant beat the Crusher via pin Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Bobby Heenan & Jimmy Valiant Chris Taylor beat Don Wade via pin Paul Perschmann drew Bull Bullinski 20:00 att: 4,312 This is not a good number for the AWA in Milwaukee at this point, especially on a show with Crusher and title match. The Valiants being broken up this way is interesting. 11/1/75 Chicago, IL @ International Amphitheatre AWA Champion Verne Gagne beat Ox Baker Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat AWA Tag Team Champions Dick the Bruiser & the Crusher dq Baron von Raschke no contest Pampero Firpo Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell & Pepper Gomez beat Sgt. Jacques Goulet & Soldier LeBoeuf & Johnny Valiant Wilbur Snyder beat Chuck O'Connor Jimmy Valiant beat Billy Robinson Bobby Duncum beat Bull Bullinski Kim Duk drew Moose Cholak Another big Chicago show that almost reads like a who’s who of the era. Flyers are in a middle of the pack match, but it’s cool to see them paired with Gomez. 11/7/75 Rockford, IL @ Boylan High School Jimmy Valiant beat The Crusher dq Pampero Firpo beat Baron Von Raschke Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Nick Bockwinkel & Paul Perschmann (sub Bobby Heenan) Johnny Valiant beat Bull Bullinski I wanna see a Bock/Rose team yesterday. 11/8/75 St Paul, MN @ Civic Center Nick Bockwinkel beat Verne Gagne to win the AWA Title after Bobby Duncum interfered Pampero Firpo no contest Baron Von Raschke Billy Robinson beat Kim Duk dq Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Bobby Duncum & Buddy Wolff Jos Leduc beat Don Wade Att: 6,322 Not surprisingly Bock v. Gagne draws the biggest number of the year in the Twin Cities. It’s also a title switch. The Flyers are stuck near the bottom rung. 11/9/75 Milwaukee WI @ Auditorium Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant beat The Crusher & Pampero Firpo dq Baron Von Raschke no contest Jos Leduc Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Nick Bockwinkel & Paul Perschmann Bobby Duncum beat Dick Reynolds Bull Bullinski drew Don Wade att: 5,281 Not a sellout, but not bad. Another match v. Bock/Buddy. I wonder if Firpo was subbing for The Bruiser here. 12/3/75 Peoria, IL Jimmy Valiant beat The Crusher Jos Leduc beat Johnny Valiant Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Don Wade & Kim Duk Bobby Duncum beat Bob Backlund Very little from the Flyers in November and they reappear v. Kim Duk and friend which seemed to be there go to at this point in between feuds. 12/9/75 Moline, IL @ Wharton Field House The Crusher & Pampero Firpo beat Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant Bobby Heenan & Bobby Duncum drew Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell Larry Hennig beat Kim Duk Bob Backlund beat Don Wade Not a bad slot for the Flyers here, though Moline is not an A town. 12/13/75 Minneapolis TV Bobby Duncum beat Santiago Acosta Bull Bullinski beat Dick Young Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Paul Perschmann & Tom Demarco dq 12/16/75 Omaha, NE @ Civic Auditorium Larry Hennig & Jos Leduc beat Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Nick Bockwinkel & Bobby Heenan dq Bobby Duncum beat Bob Backlund Kim Duk beat Don Wade Valiants are getting a strong main event push at this point. Flyers are still being treated as relevant working against Bock and friends as a means of working their way back up. 12/17/75 Milwaukee, WI @ Auditorium Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant & Baron Von Raschke beat Larry Hennig & Pampero Firpo & Jos Leduc Chris Taylor beat Kim Duk Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Nick Bockwinkel & Bobby Heenan dq Bobby Duncum beat Bob Backlund Khosrow Vaziri beat Don Wade att: 4,458 Milwaukee has really lost momentum. 12/29/75 Denver, CO @ Auditorium Arena Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Nick Bockwinkel & Bobby Heenan 2/3 Verne Gagne ddq Bobby Duncum 17:02 Bull Bullinski beat Don Wade Kim Duk beat Bob Backlund via pin Amazingly The Flyers get a major market main event over Verne. 12/30/75 Lincoln, NE @ Pershing Auditorium Baron Von Raschke beat Pampero Firpo Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant Larry Hennig dcor Bobby Duncum Jos LeDuc beat Kim Duk Bobby Heenan beat Bull Bullinski att: “record crowd estimated at 3,500” Cool to see this listed as a record crowd. Not sure how many dates there are for Lincoln or how often Verne even ran there, but this is still impressive. Raschke is a local IIRC which may have been a big factor, though it’s cool to see the Flyers end the year on a couple of solid showings. 1975 is a bit of a roller coaster year for the Flyers and the AWA. It really does not appear that any of the regular towns were particularly hot during this period. Some of them have tapered off and it looked like they attempted a few things to heat things up. The Flyers had their fair share of singles matches and middling bouts v. teams out of the top tier. On the other hand they worked a program with Bock/Stevens for the title that hit every major market at least once, and was a main event in almost all of them. They also had a strong run of semi-mains v. The Valiants who were being groomed for a run v. The Crusher and friends up top. Though they did technically main event a sellout in Milwaukee, one would think the majority of credit for that would be given to Andre’s appearance on the card. Still this is a year that shows us the Flyers are going to be a staple of the tag division and get more than their fair share of main event matches in the AWA in coming years. Major market main events = 6. Total main events = 14.

None of those guys would have a shot of making my top hundred. I would be inclined to go Bossman Bigelow Gang But I'm not confident in that at all. I hate to put Gang last but I'm not sure he has the matches the other two have.

The nature of a list like this is that it will never stay the same. That is a good thing. As new footage becomes available and new workers come to the forefront your list will evolve. There is nothing wrong with this. During the SC poll I wrote about how I wished there was enough Buddy Rose footage to make a case but there wasn't. Now we have tons of Buddy footage and he'd be no worse than top twenty on my list, possible as high as top ten. Back then I had watched very little Lucha at all and and had no Luchadores on my list. Now I would have at least five in my top twenty, one of whom I regard as a legitimate contender for number one (El Hijo Del Santo, Blue Panther, Satanico, El Dandy and Negro Casas). I have always enjoyed shootstyle, but was never fascinated with it. Shootsyle performers did not do terribly well on my list. Now Ishikawa, Otsuka, Fujiwara, Tamura, Han would make my list at minimum. I was a Tajiri, Tracy Smothers and Dick Togo fan at the time, but the only one of those guys who made my list was Smothers and he was one of the last two or three guys on. Now all three of those guys would make my list and Smothers would be higher than he was. On the flip side I wouldn't rate Michaels, Toyota, Koshinaka, Takada, Muto, Malenko, Inoki, and others I had on the list at all. Things change. We (re?)discover Hoshino's, Blackwell's, La Fiera's, Fuyuki's, Valentine's and others. This is a great thing

Decided to go through this again on a whim tonight and look over some other things. I think if anything I underrated Ken's initial AWA and return to AWA runs. He was in the main or semi-main of tons of cards that did really good business during both periods. Also while it is impossible to get an accurate count because of lack of figures for major arenas and the "double main event" nature of some of the shows, worse case scenario Patera was in a drawing match on 80+ shows that did 10k or more. It's very probable the number is close to 100.