King Solomon

yes he did, lost it to Tito in Baltimore that month

In fact, Lucha and ECW style are the two types of wresatling I can't stand

The premise of the question was based on Available Material being able to be taken to the Island. There was a variety of territories. There's very little available, especially of real matches (i.e. Arena matches in full / near full condition). Essentially just Japan and WWWF/WWF in volume, and the WWWF/WWF is a bit spotty: they have far more in the vault than has been release, which makes it not available. For other territories... it's really sparse. Hot beds like JPC, Florida, Georgia, St Louis? Real depth of lucha material, AWA and Joshi? Good luck. I think a good / interesting / fun / great set by Will of the 70s will eventually be very cool. But the vast majority of it will be matches in Japan or matches in the WWWF. It also won't remotely come close to generating 300-360 disks like the 90s sets have (depending upon how many bonus disks get created down the road). The 70s probably would have been a really awesome decade to be a wrestling fan is: * there was as much TV as there was from 1984-93 * as many arena show and other big matches were filmed as in that period * we had access to all of it John I took that in consideration, I guess because I saw much of the 90's stuff already I would want the 70's stuff to check out on a desert Island. For 90's stuff it would be Japan and the Monday Night wars era. I never liked Lucha, too spot fest like for my taste. Then you are watching the wrong lucha. i grew up here in L.A. so I saw that stuff my whole life and I still don't like it

The premise of the question was based on Available Material being able to be taken to the Island. There was a variety of territories. There's very little available, especially of real matches (i.e. Arena matches in full / near full condition). Essentially just Japan and WWWF/WWF in volume, and the WWWF/WWF is a bit spotty: they have far more in the vault than has been release, which makes it not available. For other territories... it's really sparse. Hot beds like JPC, Florida, Georgia, St Louis? Real depth of lucha material, AWA and Joshi? Good luck. I think a good / interesting / fun / great set by Will of the 70s will eventually be very cool. But the vast majority of it will be matches in Japan or matches in the WWWF. It also won't remotely come close to generating 300-360 disks like the 90s sets have (depending upon how many bonus disks get created down the road). The 70s probably would have been a really awesome decade to be a wrestling fan is: * there was as much TV as there was from 1984-93 * as many arena show and other big matches were filmed as in that period * we had access to all of it John I took that in consideration, I guess because I saw much of the 90's stuff already I would want the 70's stuff to check out on a desert Island. For 90's stuff it would be Japan and the Monday Night wars era. I never liked Lucha, too spot fest like for my taste.

Not a big Dory fan so I wouldn't really dig a best of set from him. Not a fan of Harley either. Wouldn't mind brisco or terry Funk tho.

I go with the 70's over the 90's beacuse of all the Legends that were in their prime. I also go with the 70's because of the variety of the various territories. The 90's started off pretty bad until the mid 90's turn around.

This is an easy one for me, The 19FREAKIN80'S You had Mid South and World Class at their hottest, the AWA during the Hogan-Road Warrior years, Mid Atlantic from the regional early 80's until the Natonal expansion of the mid late 80's, Georgia, Florida, Memphis during their most exciting years, The WWF had an awesome decade, All Japan at it's best with Brody and Hansen, New Japan, Pacific NorthWest during the Piper years, Montreal, Stampede and all points in between, the varierty was awesome!! You don;t get that variety in the 90's and you get quite a few bad years from the Big Two before things turn around. ECW was good for shock TV but had little staying power. The Japan stuff was awesome. I never got too much into Lucha. The 1970's would be a close second to the 80's.

Once I get the 85 set then I'll have all the Mid South tapes, next I'll try to get UWF stuff

Glad this hasn't happened yet, just ordered another season set for 1985

The Kamala-Magnum T.A. match on VHS crockett Cup tape was from Bash 85

I don't mind pimping DiBiase vs Patera. This is actually quite easy. All of your Patera stuff is roughly equal to all of DiBiase's MidSouth stuff. He was the mainevent lock for Watts for about 6-7 years. Arguably his highs -- the angle and match with Flair, the Duggan match, the JYD and ratpack angles -- are higher than Patera's. And tagging with Stan Hansen can't be sniffed at either for general "cred", even if his All-Japan stuff isn't top end. I liked his matches on the 80s set more than most, but then I'm probably in the top 20 DiBiase marks on earth, right behind Dave Meltzer. That means Million Dollar Man is BONUS, that is ON TOP of whatever he's putting up against Patera from his Watts days. Again, there is perspective here. Meltzer had DiBiase as a top 5 or top 10 US worker for the entirety of the 80s. I happen to agree with him. WWF wasn't a workrate promotion. Ted went in there and consistently gave a great performance and consistently gave us **** matches against good opponents (Savage, Bret) and matches in the **1/2 range against any old opponent. His decent matches with Warrior, Virgil and wet-behind-the-ears Dustin Rhodes are enough to cement his status as a "broomstick worker". He was always over and he drew. Let's call Money Inc Ted's decline and the contrast with Patera couldn't be greater. Patera in decline was just sad. Ted in decline was working decent cage matches with the Steiners and helping to get Sean Waltman and Razor Ramon over and let's not forget that the match at Wrestlemania 9 was billed as a "co-main event". So he was in a Mania main event the year he retired. What did Patera do the year he retired? As much as you love Patera, Dylan, I don't think this one can be done. Even allowing for Meltzer-love, Ted is a lock for the HoF first based on being Watts's top worker, and then for being one of the greatest heels of all time in WWF. "Arguably his highs -- the angle and match with Flair, the Duggan match, the JYD and ratpack angles -- are higher than Patera's." I agree with Dylan, more entertaining possibly and I would be inclined to agree but more payoff at the gate no way and that is what the bottom line is. I don't think there was any real big payoff in the Flair-Murdoch-Dibiase angle whereas Patera was huge in the WWF main eventing against Bruno, Morales and Backlund not to mention his AWA, Missouri, Tri States and globe trotting other territories as a top heel main eventing big cards. I take maineventing MSG, MLG and the other big markets of the Northeast over maineventing in the Mid South area. Post 84 Mid South wasn't setting the world on fire anymore. Once Savage turned heel in 89 Dibiase was no longer the top heel. Dibiase's heel run at the top in WWF pales in comparison to Piper.

I don't mind pimping DiBiase vs Patera. This is actually quite easy. All of your Patera stuff is roughly equal to all of DiBiase's MidSouth stuff. He was the mainevent lock for Watts for about 6-7 years. Arguably his highs -- the angle and match with Flair, the Duggan match, the JYD and ratpack angles -- are higher than Patera's. And tagging with Stan Hansen can't be sniffed at either for general "cred", even if his All-Japan stuff isn't top end. I liked his matches on the 80s set more than most, but then I'm probably in the top 20 DiBiase marks on earth, right behind Dave Meltzer. That means Million Dollar Man is BONUS, that is ON TOP of whatever he's putting up against Patera from his Watts days. Again, there is perspective here. Meltzer had DiBiase as a top 5 or top 10 US worker for the entirety of the 80s. I happen to agree with him. WWF wasn't a workrate promotion. Ted went in there and consistently gave a great performance and consistently gave us **** matches against good opponents (Savage, Bret) and matches in the **1/2 range against any old opponent. His decent matches with Warrior, Virgil and wet-behind-the-ears Dustin Rhodes are enough to cement his status as a "broomstick worker". He was always over and he drew. Let's call Money Inc Ted's decline and the contrast with Patera couldn't be greater. Patera in decline was just sad. Ted in decline was working decent cage matches with the Steiners and helping to get Sean Waltman and Razor Ramon over and let's not forget that the match at Wrestlemania 9 was billed as a "co-main event". So he was in a Mania main event the year he retired. What did Patera do the year he retired? As much as you love Patera, Dylan, I don't think this one can be done. Even allowing for Meltzer-love, Ted is a lock for the HoF first based on being Watts's top worker, and then for being one of the greatest heels of all time in WWF. "Arguably his highs -- the angle and match with Flair, the Duggan match, the JYD and ratpack angles -- are higher than Patera's." I agree with Dylan, more entertaining possibly and I would be inclined to agree but more payoff at the gate no way and that is what the bottom line is. I don't think there was any real big payoff in the Flair-Murdoch-Dibiase angle whereas Patera was huge in the WWF main eventing against Bruno, Morales and Backlund not to mention his AWA, Missouri, Tri States and globe trotting other territories as a top heel main eventing big cards.

Not really. Not even close actually. "All of my Patera stuff" includes 12.5 years and features Patera headlining in virtually every major wrestling town in the U.S. and Canada, against nearly every major name of his era. Dibiase had a great run in Mid-South, but to claim that run is equivalent of Patera's ENTIRE run requires more than just an assertion. Where is the record? I'm not shitting on Dibiase's run, but being number two in the territory to JYD (when the territory by all accounts was dead before him) and then taking up the mantel for him for a couple of years as the territory cooled off is not the equivalent of "drew money v. Bruno, Backlund, Dusty, Andre and Morales in the WWF, v. Watts in Oklahoma, v. a variety of people as a major star in St. Louis, v. Atlas, Wahoo, and others in MACW, v. Lawler in Memphis, v. Backlund in Toronto as a farmed out match that was hot in MLG, v. Graham as a rookie in the AWA and Texas, v. Rich at the hot of his popularity in GCW, as gatekeeper v. Hogan in post-prime in AWA, v. Flyers as a member of Sheiks, w/Studd v. Andre and the friends in the WWF, et." If you are being objective it's simply impossible to claim Dibiase Mid-South = Patera from 72-85. Even claiming JYD's Mid-South run (and he ignited the territory, turned NO into the hottest city in wrestling, set records all over the loop, et.) is equal to Patera's 12.5 year pre-prison career is something you would have an extremely difficult job selling me on. In what way? Artistically? Maybe, perhaps even definitely. Although the Patera/White Wolf angle is very memorable, as was the feats of strength angle with Atlas, the Patera "sellout" angle with Adnan, the angle with Andre getting his hair cut, et. As far as highs as a draw? Well Dibiase had his value to be sure and it was clear that he could get people into the buildings. But it's not at all clear that these feuds made more money than Patera's top feuds did. In fact it's almost certainly not true. Now one could say "well look at Patera, the guy was working the biggest stars at their peak in hot areas." But that's really the point. Patera was brought in to Oklahoma, destroyed Watts on tv and OK got hot. By the end the non-native Patera was getting NWA title shots which was not at all common for that territory. He DEBUTED for the WWF in the Garden v. Bruno and then got ANOTHER run v. Bruno later. In fact Patera got multiple house shows runs v. Bruno and Backlund, which is a tell tale sign that the office saw him as a major heel drawing card. The Backlund feud was so hot and well regarded it was farmed out to other places. Patera was also a go to opponent for Andre and Dusty in both the WWF and elsewhere. This is to say nothing of his value in St. Louis where he was the Missouri champ twice and got NWA title shots, neither of which were things Muchnick just hurled around to random people. He won the PWI Most Hated Wrestler of the Year Award twice and was in the top five two other times. We can laugh about that, but the reality is those awards were pretty good indicators during the era, particularly in regards to the WWF. When he left the WWF he was brought in as Rich's rival in GCW at a point where Rich was the hottest babyface in the nation. This is to say nothing of his run in MACW or his post-prime work where he was consistently positioned at or near the top of the card prior to his prison stint. So we can say "I thought Dibiase's angles were cooler" and I'd probably be inclined to agree. But I don't think we can say "Dibiase's angles and feuds were more successful." It's simply not clear that they were and if anything the evidence would trend the other way. And "Dibiase had more to do with those runs than Patera did his" ignores the fact that Patera was wildly in demand with promoters all over the country. I think this is peripheral to his case. I get that you like the matches and having international credibility is not irrelevant in these matters, but I don't think it's a key building block anymore than Patera's work in Japan would be a building block for his case. It's their as padding at most. Again, not really. You are either inflating Dibiase's Mid-South run or deflating Patera's 12.5 year run as a top of the card talent in multiple territories. I can't tell which and it's possible it is both. There are a few ways you could breakdown this comparison, but "Mid-South v. all of Patera's pre-prison work, then throw on the WWF stuff for Dibiase to fatten him up" isn't really one of them. How do their top feuds compare in terms of importance to promotion/drawing power, et? How do their careers in the WWF stack up next to each other? How do their careers in places outside their "home base" compare? Is Dibiase's value to Mid South more impressive than Patera's value as a guy who could be brought in anywhere against anyone and draw? Who's title runs carried more weight/were more significant? Now it is possible to break all of this down and come to the conclusion that Dibiase's resume is better than Patera's. What I don't think it is possible to do is make those comparisons and come to the conclusion that Dibiase is a vastly superior candidate to the point where Teddy is fiat and Patera is peripheral. Not even close. As an aside I think we all tend to romanticize and overrate the MDM character as a draw. I'm not saying he wasn't a draw and I freely admit I have not closely looked at the numbers. He was clearly a big part of the Andre/Hogan stuff and the Megapowers feud did very well as I recall. But as a money drawing character the run was not as long as we may think. I've seen people criticize the brevity of Patera's run as a true main event draw as a reason to keep him out, but I don't think Dibiase's run is any longer even if you add Mid-South and WWF together. I'm also not certain Dibiase would stack up as well in the particulars to Orndorff, Piper and other top dog heels from the rough time period. It's something I'd like to see researched and analyzed but I'm not going to be the one to do it. I doubt Ted would be in my top ten U.S. workers from the period but he certainly has an advantage over Patera in regard to work. If you are someone who regards that as a MASSIVE factor in HoF voting you could argue that Ted distances himself a bit from Patera, but a. I'm not one of those people and b. we do not have the scope of Patera's career that we have of Ted's. What we have of Patera tends to range from "very good" to "great." It is not all together clear to me that Dibiase was a vastly superior worker to Patera based on the footage we actually have. I suspect if we had more Patera in MACW and earlier in his career he would be seen as someone closer to Ted's "peer group" in that regard than not. This^^ The Million Dollar Man Charachter is vastly overrated in my opinion and I remember Patera being hot as hell in the WWF challenging Bruno and Backlund in MSG when that was the pinnacle of any wrestlers career. I think too many people look at things thru a late 80's lens instead of a lens for a particular wrestlers prime. I had a friend who always judged Jimmy Snuka on his 1989-91 WWF run because that's all they saw of him but I told them watch his Mid Atlantic, Georgia, Japan, early WWF and the little footager that is available from Portland. You have to place yourself in each given time period rather than the period that you were watching wrestling.

Parv; Regarding your comments on the Manny-Abdullah match, maybe they didn't want that match stealing too much glare for the other matches higher on the card. The Piper-Valentine match was more of a feature for Starracde 83 than Manny-Butcher was for 85.

If you ever need anyone to do a show with you on one of these super cards let me know, this sounds like fun