Shining Wiz

I was contemplating nominating Starr myself. Very underrated.

Though, youtube is God: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=leo+burke There's even a Bockwinkle AWA title match from Stampede in there.....

That's going to be the problem with this one. Like I said, the majority of the AGPW tape library was destroyed in a fire. There are a few episodes on youtube with very low VQ....not even sure if Burke is on them.

This isn't terribly helpful since you can provide an argument with reasons for just about anything, what with wrestling being fake and all. You could certainly make an argument for DiBiase's career output being better than Tenryu's. Making an argument and having anyone believe it are two different things. Everyone is going to vote for whoever they want in the end. The arguments are going to be there for reasonable people to listen to and and perhaps be influenced by. I think he was trying to point out that if you can make a coherent argument beyond, "X is the tits because YEAH!" for why you would include someone then you're probably not just being a tool.

I've got a soft spot for Leo Burke since he was THE MAN in my neck of the woods when I was younger. Had some very memorable feuds with Harley Race, Big Stephen Pettitpas and, my personal favourite, Rotten Ronn Starr. I know he was more a journeyman outside the Maritimes, but he's a guy who shouldn't be dismissed off hand. He was good enough to be a go to trainer for the Hart family and put on some solid undercard matches all over the continent, and even had a run against Carlos Colon in PR. It's too bad that about 95% of the Atlantic Grand Prix tape library was destroyed in a building fire in the 90's before they could be digitized. I might be biased by memories of my youth, but there was a crew that on par with something like the Continental area, at least in terms of locals who were over with the crowd. Really fun old school territory that is lost to the ages. Moral of the story - search out some Leo Burke.

+1

I can't think of a standout match with Muraco. I can't imagine Muraco was too jazzed to be used to get the new guy popular. There is that great Bret Hart Boston Garden match from late 85 or 86 though, and the Jake stuff is great, and the Savage feud was fun.

Unlikely to be on my ballot. Have seen a ton of Hero, and he is definitely good, and probably has the potential to be better, but he almost never blew me away in spite of being the kind of guy I would usually enjoy and having almost always been in the right position for me to enjoy him.

Epitome of solid but not spectacular. Could get brought up to a very good match with the right guy, and was usually in decent matches, but I always felt the gimmick brought the heat rather than what was going on in the ring....this probably a bigger deal to me since I'm not American so he didn't have my natural rooting interest. Not anywhere near my ballot on first glance....will see if some reconsideration is worthy.

I'd be shocked if I don't have him in my top 10.

Obviously not of the same quality as a lot of what is already listed, and I haven't gone back and watched them recently, but Hansen had a really good series over the US title with Luger in about 91 or so. You would expect Hansen's style to not work well with Luger, at least I wouldn't have, but Hansen made it work. Makes for a good reference for some US action to compliment the Japanese.

Cesaro/Claudio Castagnoli http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/21650-antonio-cesaro/?hl=cesaro

Depending on the final form, I'd be interested in taking part in this

Thanks....I'll snoop around that period. If I like it on rewatching, I can definitely see him in the top 100 as the Hall of Pain period and in is quality big man stuff.

Please point me to what I'm forgetting and I'll give it a second look. I remember him being pretty horrible for a while and only being useful for a quick power spot, being considered a huge bust who they would have cut if not for the contract he had signed, and spending a few stints in OVW in 2002-2003ish for training.

Har har.

A top 10 contender for me. Did almost everything excellently, as long as a mic never went near him. I'd be curious if anyone can make a compelling case against him being at least top 50.

Playing Devil's advocate, you could argue it took the better part of a decade to have a good match, and another few years before his Hall of Pain run. How many top 100 contenders take that long to get good?

This might be a point that had to be taken into consideration for anyone who started/hit their prime since 2000 or so. There is so much more of their matches available compared to earlier wrestlers who could have off nights/feuds/tours/runs and there is no video evidence of it. So, with those older wrestlers we're often left with only the big matches/those someone felt were worth keeping.

I definitely agree about him not being a great physical talent. Like Lawler though, I think the quality he produced in spite of that is a mark in his favour.

I've been debating the value of role players in my head. The thread for Haku mentions how he managed to be a mid card gatekeeper/jobber to the stars for years, but always seemed like a threat to win even though he rarely did. This got me thinking, if you're the best in your role, do you deserve consideration here? What about someone who was always a jobber, but was a jobber because they were FANTASTIC at taking a beating and making the star look like a million bucks, even they were more likely a $5 performer?

I think I'm going to enjoy going back through '90's All Japan.

I second this point. I can't remember a big singles win other than becoming "The King" in the WWF he had, but someone beating him always seemed bigger than it otherwise should have. Not sure that's enough to get to the top 100, but it is definitely a rare skill.

This will be interesting. He's never been bad that I've seen, but the 2013-2014 run is really, really, really good. Question becomes whether a relatively short run of fantastic matches is enough to take a solid undercard performer and jump him to all time status. Also makes an interesting arguing point for the number of guys who were obviously quite skilled but never given the chance Ishii has been to really stand out.

Off the top of my head, and obviously without going back to watch anything, I would say Samoa Joe, Jimmy Rave (an admittedly low bar, but I thought Punk carried him to a very good series which has stayed in my head as such for about a decade), John Cena, Rey Mysterio (at least in WWE, as I am not huge on Rey in this period as I've never particularly enjoyed the way they booked him, but I thought Punk and him meshed fantastically), his WM match with Taker is my favourite of the streak, Brent Albright in OVW (making him look so good in the process that I could never not be disappointed in Albright after the fact even after I knew how dull he was) , and possibly Daniel Bryan at Over the Limit (I think), though Bryan's summerslam match with Cena might top that for him.