yesdanielbryan

Hi. Today I read the WON HOF 2015 issue and I noted that Bryan Danielson got only the 12 % of total votes among the current wrestlers, his peers. Obiouvsly he got more votes in 2016, when he entered in. (he was 7th among wrestlers, however I don't know the percentage). Contrariwise, wrestlers like Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit are/were more respected among their peers, in fact Angle got tons of votes in 2004, by both current and retired wrestlers, while Benoit got 73% of total votes among current wrestlers. So, what is the reason in your opinion? For example, here, Bryan defeated Benoit in the last comparison that I opened, but I don't think that among their peers Danielson is/was considered a better wrestler. I also listened the podcast with Brandon Howard and Dylan Hales about Bryan's WON HOF case, and Dylan underlined the fact that Bryan didn't get a lot of consents among his peers. Probably, also Styles didn't get a lot of consensous among his peers, or at least not at the level of Angle and Benoit. We, hardcore fans, are overrating wrestlers like Danielson and Styles in comparisons to Benoit and Angle, or WON HOF current wrestlers voters were underrating them? Thank you

Do you think that Bryan was better than Styles, considering their stint in ROH/NOAH/WWE/other indies (Bryan) and NJPW/WWE/other indies (Styles)?

Hi people, I opened the third poll "Who is a better in ring performer?" I decided to make comparisons between wrestlers considered the ability as in ring performers, that include workrate, in ring psychology, storytelling, selling, cleaning in the execution of the moves, quality of matches. You should try to vote not your favourite wrestlers, but you should vote the wrestler that you think is a better in ring performer. In few words you should try to be as objective as possible. However if you think that the wrestlers are great in ring performers in the same way, and it's impossible to choose who is better than the other, you should vote the option number 3, please. Then if you didn't watch enough body of work of a wrestler you should vote the option number 4, please. The comparisons are: 1)Bryan Danielson vs AJ Styles 2)Ric Flair vs Mitsuharu Misawa 3)Bret Hart vs Ricky Steamboat Thank you very much

My votes there: 1) Mitsuharu Misawa vs Bret Hart: Abstain. Have not seen enough/any Misawa. 2) Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle: This one is too close to call, to the point where I don't even remember who I voted for an hour after the fact (and the dated WC board won't tell me). You could make a really strong case for both. 3) Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat: I went with Flair because he had that extra something Steamboat didn't, but it was close. 4) Jushin Liger vs Chris Benoit: Liger. He was the talk of wrestling the moment he stepped foot in the United States. Benoit never was. 5) Bryan Danielson vs Kenta Kobashi: Abstain. See previous post. Knowing my preferences though, I'd probably go with Bryan. He was and is a once-in-a-lifetime babyface performer who transcended his perceived limitations and built a main event career out of nothing. 6) Curt Hennig vs Chris Jericho: Hennig. Jericho has arguably had a longer, more successful career with many more memorable matches and feuds. Fine, he wins on paper. But Hennig was so smooth and cool. He was...well, perfect. 7) Jumbo Tsuruta vs Nick Bockwinkel: Abstain. Knowing my preferences though, I'd probably end up going with Bock. 8) KENTA/Hideo Itami vs Owen Hart: Owen. See previous post. 9) Samoa Joe vs Shinsuke Nakamura: Nakamura. Joe is one of the most overrated guys ever. 10) Dynamite Kid vs Shawn Michaels: Abstain. Knowing my preferences though, I'd probably end up going with HBK. Dynamite didn't have nearly the career or influence (the latter will be an arguable and debated point, but almost every wrestler cites HBK as an influence - only Benoit and a couple of others have ever said the same about Dynamite). Are you a user of wrestlingclassics?

The point is that I like to know, in your opinion, what are the negative and positive aspects of a wrestler.

Yes, it's me. The comparisons on wrestlingclassics are: 1)Mitsuharu Misawa vs Bret Hart 2)Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle 3)Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat 4)Jushin Liger vs Chris Benoit 5)Bryan Danielson vs Kenta Kobashi 6)Curt Hennig vs Chris Jericho 7)Jumbo Tsuruta vs Nick Bockwinkel 8)KENTA/Hideo Itami vs Owen Hart 9)Samoa Joe vs Shinsuke Nakamura 10)Dynamite Kid vs Shawn Michaels

Guys, if you gave your vote before I canceled the last topic, can you re-put your choise in the poll, please? Sorry again for the incident

CapitalTTruth, on 03 Apr 2018 - 6:15 PM, said: For example you have all credential to vote. While, for example, if you watched only Daniel Bryan in WWE, you wouldn't have the credentials to make a clear judgment. For "all matches" I didn't mean all matches, but in the case of Bryan a good percentage of pre-WWE matches, and also WWE matches. An other example is Styles: to judge his entire career, you would not only watch his WWE stint, but his all stints in every promotions. Same thing for Eddie Guerrero, considering that he wrestled also in AAA, NJPW.

eas, on 03 Apr 2018 - 6:04 PM, said: I'd like to use this polls only for balanced comparisons, obiouvsly it's impossible to compare every wrestlers.

This is CapitalTTruth post: I like these comparison threads if for no other reason than they are an easy conversation starter during a time where my mind is really drawn to wrestling and is looking for any wrestling, related distraction. I would sort of add three things off the bat though. If these were said in another thread my apologies. 1. Yeah, the GWE archive is really where a lot of this has been hashed out. There are lots of new members and some of us who came in half way through, so it doesn't make these obsolete by any means, but I think we would be remiss not to contextualize these poles/threads within the boards history of ranking and comparing folk. 2. I sort of take issue with the seeming "clear" distinction between favorite and best. To me, the line is very thin. Sure there are some wrestlers that I just like a lot but would never rank that high for me when it comes to "best" workers, but I tend to work and think from what I enjoy and try to understand my own standards for what I think constitutes good wrestling rather than chase some objective measure of quality. Again, I am not saying there is not distinction to be made, but 9 times out of 10 if I am voting for who I think is the "best" I am voting for my favorite. The forced division between the two (even if it is not intentional) is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, so this is more about me than anything really. 3. What do you mean by all their "main matches". I would say that I have seen a larger percentage of Danielson's career than any other wrestler, but there are still some swaths that I haven't seen or its been so much footage ago that I don't have a great recollection. What constitutes "enough" knowledge here? I mean I feel pretty confident in knowing the careers of each person you are asking about, but going off your word-for-word description I am not actually sure my vote should count. That said, it has never stopped me from talking wrestling before. I have Kobashi and Danielson at a draw. They are both top 5 all timers for me. Danielson excels in diversity of performance and in his ability to lay out matches to get the most out of his oponnets no matter what. Kobashi is one of the best big time baby faces ever and he is almost a caricature in that regard. My issue with both is probably excess. I think Danielson at his peak probably had some matches that went a little longer than they should have and Koashi was sort of the posterboy for the 90s AJPW excess that bugs some people. Selling wise they are both good in different ways. The real payoff here is that both men have a knack for creating drama in their matches and sucking the audience into their unfolding fate. Both were also able to transfer that to others and get the audience to invest in their opponents. Eddie > Bret: Maybe this should disqualify me, but I am a little more of a peak guy and to me Eddie is the greatest peak wrestler ever. Hart could make sure that every match felt like a struggle, but Eddie was able to do that and add a swarm of emotions to whatever he was doing. Both men brought a lot of personality to their matches, but Eddie just had more tricks up his sleeve. He could turn everything around on a dime and offensive and defensive arsenals just feel bigger to me. Styles > Benoit: This one is all about the last few years to me. I complimented Benoit's urgency in the last thread, but that has always actually been a strength of Styles as well. As much as I enjoyed Benoit at the time, I don't think he ever quite achieved the aura that Styles has been able to put together and I mean that as a combination of his work, his story telling, and the legitimacy he brings with every mach now. The dude is just big time and it is a matter of his work being bigger than the sum of its parts. Both are physically gifted and great technical wrestlers. Both are solid sellers. Benoit is probably better with regard to nonverbals and facial expressions. Styles gets the nod in pacing and being able to tell different stories. He also achieved as much or more with less during certain parts of his career I think. Styles gets the nod on being the complete package of a wrestler, someone that feels like they can move up and down the card at will and make everything (not just the action) seem believable.>>>>

This is Richeyedwards post: For Kobashi vs Danielson I went with Kobashi it was very close but I just gave the edge to kobashi, I did go back and forthe between Kobashi and draw but the idea of Danielson being the one to pick never crossed my mind. Eddie vs Bret is a draw, cant say either way. AJ vs Beniot, AJ. Now the AJ we have today has certainly not been the same AJ since day one he has most certainly had his ups and down, in many of his biggest matches in TNA he failed particularly with the Angle matches. His NJPW run was really not very good for the first few months, the dontaku and yokohama arena main events were terrible heat-less bores (but then again he was against Okada and that is how I feel about most of his matches) he later had more crap with okada at king of pro wrestling 2015 a match so unremarkable I forgot it happened until I saw it listed when looking up AJ's NJPW run while writing this. It was the g1 run in 2014 that saved his NJPW run and set him on his way to be one of the best in the world for nearly the last 4 years.>>>>

This is eas post: Are we going to compare every wrestler ever to each other, three at a time, using these polls now?>>>>

This is peachchaos post: We did a huge project where we spent years watching footage and comparing workers and then voted for the GWE (Greatest Wrestler Ever). Here's how these guys ranked: 5) Daniel Bryan (12302 points, 142 ballots, 17.63 avg, high: 1 – Danny Kichler, @jamesie_2015, ShittyLittleBoots, James Derbyshire, Venegas, Dan Rice, Quentin Skinner, Mrzfn & anonymous, 2006: 117) 8) Kenta Kobashi (11898 points, 135 ballots, 16.62 avg, high: 1 – Alan Counihan, Lauren McKell, Marty Sleaze, Winged Eagle, anonymous & anonymous; 2006: 5) 12) Eddie Guerrero (11369 points, 146 ballots, 24.16 avg, high: 1 – Gus_Mcrae, 2006: 6) 17) Bret Hart (10757 points, 138 ballots, 26.14 avg, high: 1 – Andrew Lacelle, NoyJayTabb, Scalret-Left, Beast, BAMbtb, Hasan Mulla, jpchicago23, The Chief & anonymous; 2006: 9) 34) Chris Benoit (6396 points, 93 ballots, 32.88 avg, high: 2 - anarchistxx & Mrzfn, 2006: 3) 39) AJ Styles (5759 points, 109 ballots, 48.20 avg, high: 6 - Hasan Mulla, 2006: 301) >>>>

I will write prior posts.

I'm sorry, people, I edited the poll because I forget to click on the option "make the votes public"

Hi people, I opened the second poll "Who is a better in ring performer?" I decided to make comparisons between wrestlers considered the ability as in ring performers, that include workrate, in ring psychology, storytelling, selling, cleaning in the execution of the moves, quality of matches. You should try to vote not your favourite wrestlers, but you should vote the wrestler that you think is a better in ring performer. In few words you should try to be as objective as possible. However if you think that the wrestlers are great in ring performers in the same way, and it's impossible to choose who is better than the other, you should vote the option number 3, please. Then if you don't know the entire career of a wrestler you should vote the option number 4, please. For example if you didn't watch every Danielson's main matches in every promotion, not only WWE, you should choose the option 4. The comparisons are: 1)Bryan Danielson vs Kenta Kobashi 2)Eddie Guerrero vs Bret Hart 3)AJ Styles vs Chris Benoit Thank you very much

Kobashi -- to me, Danielson's peak was during his mid to late ROH run and my favorite Kobashi run was during his early to mid 2000's Noah run and in my opinion, Kobashi had the better run. I know others will say Danielson's best run is probably his WWE run, but I don't agree Eddie -- I'm a big fan of Bret's, but Eddie had better matches against more diverse opponents in more diverse settings than Bret. Kawada -- Charisma aside, Kawada to me was better overall than Misawa. Benoit -- HBK had bigger and better opportunities, but on a constant basis, Benoit was far better imo. Akiyama -- Nakamura has had some good to great runs, but I don't think he's had a run as good as Akiyama's 2000's run. Nakamura also coasts on matches whenever he wants to as he's doing currently in WWE. Styles -- Not even comparable. Styles is just far better in every aspect. Joe -- I'm sure this will be closer to other people, but in my opinion Joe's ROH world title run and his involvement in the ROH vs. CZW feud put him above Hennig for me and I'm a huge Hennig fan. Hase vs. Angle -- This an interesting one and should be a lot closer than the rest and will pass on voting here as I'm not sure at the moment who I'd choose comfortably. Thank you for the comments. However we can talk about in the next polls.

Guys, do you like these comparisons in eventual new polls? 1)Bryan Danielson vs Kenta Kobashi 2)Eddie Guerrero vs Bret Hart 3)Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada 4)Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit 5)Jun Akiyama vs Shinsuke Nakamura 6)AJ Styles vs Hiroshi Tanahashi 7)Samoa Joe vs Curt Hennig 8)Hiroshi Hase vs Kurt Angle

This, pretty much. I honestly feel that people just dislike Benoit for what happened (and rightfully so), but you shouldn't discredit his work because of that. If anything, his Royal Rumble and WM 20 win reflect everything that is being thrown against him when it comes to him not drawing heat or sympathy from the fans. As I said, I give the nod when it comes to charisma and selling to Danielson, but I give the nod to constant aggressiveness and intensity to Benoit. About cleaning in the execution of the moves, storytelling and in ring psychology?

Why? Even considering exclusively in ring ability?

In your opinion, are there any aspects in which Benoit is better than Danielson?

After the topic that I opened about Danielson two days ago, I decided to make comparisons between wrestlers considered the ability as in ring performers, that include workrate, in ring psychology, storytelling, selling, cleaning in the execution of the moves, quality of matches, charisma into the match. You should try to vote not your favourite wrestlers, but you should vote the wrestler that you think is a better in ring performer. In few words you should try to be as objective as possible. However if you think that the wrestlers are great in ring performers in the same way, and it's impossible to choose who is better than the other, you should vote the option number 3. Then if you don't know the entire career of a wrestler you should vote the option number 4. For example if you didn't watch every Danielson's main matches in every promotion, not only WWE, you should choose the option 4. The comparisons are: 1)Bret Hart vs Mitsuharu Misawa 2)Shawn Michaels vs AJ Styles 3)Bryan Danielson vs Chris Benoit Thank you very much

I will re-post my question, so other people can read it. Now we talked about selling, but in your opinion, what are the aspects in which Danielson prevails over Benoit/Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi, or at least is as goog as them?

Now we talked about selling, but in your opinion, what are the aspects in which Danielson prevails over Benoit/Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi, or at least is as goog as them?