highflyflow

Roddy is one of the first guys I think of when I think of the process of comparing wrestlers across eraS for this exercise. For example: Ted DiBiase finished at 42 in 2016, no doubt a beneficiary of so the 80s Mid-South set and some heavy pimping in his and other nominee forums. DiBiase retired at the age of 39 after a very respectable 19-year career, and the bulk of his case comes from a 4-5 year window in the mid-80s, primarily his Mid-South work but adding in some of his All Japan stuff and some strong title matches with Savage in the WWF. Not many people are making the case that DiBiase's run as the Million Dollar Man adds much to his GWE case, which is how he spent the last 7 years of his career. Strong, on the other hand, is 42 years old, 25 years into his career, has been, at worst a good but generic/flawed worker and, at best, one of if not the best wrestler on the planet, for 20 of those years, has shown he's still one of the best guys in the world in AEW the last two years, and has shown no signs of slowing down. I know DiBiase is probably a bit of low-hanging fruit, but Strong's resume just looks so much more impressive to me there, and that's against a guy that cracked the top 50 last time! It's that kind of logic that makes it easy for me to put more modern guys above wrestlers that have been hyped for decades, but I wonder how everyone else feels about it.

Yeah I was gonna say the same thing but didn’t really feel like fleshing out an argument. I think if you widen the scope to maybe 15 years it’s a much more representative sample size; perhaps even 10 years, with the obvious capacity for greatness afterwards (Misawa would benefit from this).

I really just have never bought the idea that Flair's had "15 years of crap" or any kind of detracting statement in regards to the twilight years of his active career; the idea that his WWE run is considered a negative for him, and a strong negative at that, is baffling to me, because I consider him to be a reliably solid member of the Ruthless Aggression era and honestly one of the better wrestlers on the roster period. I guess if you compared Flair in 2005 to Flair in 1985 then he doesn't stack up in comparison but...why would you do that? Flair at 56 is not gonna look the same as Flair at 36. I still think he had matches ranging from solid to genuinely great with the likes of Eddie Guerrero, Randy Orton, Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, Big Show, Mick Foley, and Triple H.

If I was a betting man, I’d put money on Danielson, Funk, Hansen, Tenryu and Kobashi to all finish above Flair. After that, though, is anyone’s guess.

The former, I was directly quoting @El McKell's post. To be clear, I understand that plenty of people love this stuff, but I really don't have much use for a deeply flawed wrestler perpetuating a deeply flawed style and being considered the best of the bunch in one of the weaker decades for wrestling in recent memory.

What’s the use of being the absolute best at a style that’s amongst the most aggravating in wrestling today?

A lot of talk revolving around this project since 2014 has been about "great match theory", or how much one values great matches in the context of this discussion. I certainly value great matches a lot, but I've been thinking about this for a while and, to me, there's just more to being one of the 100 greatest wrestlers of all time than having great matches. I've been thinking about John Cena's dud of a retirement run this year, and while one could definitely hand-wave it as insignificant in the vast scope of his career, to me it really is significant. For one, he's been in positions of prominence all year, and failed spectacularly, but for two it's how he's failed that reflects on him as a potential great. Additionally, something like the report that he's pushed for his retirement match to open SNME this weekend (which could absolutely be bullshit, to be fair) is something I also hold against him, as someone in his position of power should understand that he'd be cutting the nuts off all the younger, less over talent than him that have to follow the match the company's been building to for a calendar year. But moving moreso into explicit criteria, I value the things that make a wrestler stand out in my head. How they walk to the ring, how they take to being a babyface or heel, how they approach different kinds of matches, their attention to detail, the way they structure matches, etc. It's not exactly a Matt D-esque holistic view of wrestling, but it leans more in that direction than staring at how many 4+ star matches they have in my spreadsheet.

I like Eddie in early 2010s PWG, but not nearly enough to consider him for a list like this

His title match vs. Higuchi might be my MOTY, I think it’s that good. Hell, as far as this topic goes, Higuchi should be getting good buzz given how great he’s been especially in the 2020s, but I’m not optimistic about that. There’s always 2036, I guess

I’ll have Panther in my top 50. He’s been one of the best wrestlers in the world, in the best promotion in the world, for at least two years now, in his 60s. In a similar vein, does Akiyama climb into the teens this time around? He’s demonstrably added to his case in the last ten years

In 2016, wrestlers like Shinsuke Nakamura, Hiroshi Tanahashi, CM Punk, and Bryan Danielson all made it on the top 100 list based predominantly on their work in the ten years since the Smarkschoice poll. Who do you think will be the biggest benefactor of footage from the last 10 years in the 2026 list? Mostly asking for wrestlers that weren't on the list last time, but you think have a good chance at being on next year.

I think the Tamura point is interesting, because while there isn't really a traditional heel/face divide in shoot-style, I do think there are angles by which you can see him as the protagonist and antagonist of matches (for instance, for the case of the latter, I think of his 97-99 matches with Kohsaka and Yamamoto). Anyway, as far as wrestlers that I love both as a face and heel (or tecnico and rudo, for the luchadors): Danielson, Funk, Flair, Kawada, Austin, Panther, Styles, Tanahashi, Satanico, Piper, Bret, Otani, Punk, Windham, Savage, Zbyszko, Akiyama, Moxley, Christian, Hokuto. I'm sure there are plenty I'm forgetting, and I know someone like Buddy Rose is missing simply because I haven't seen his babyface work yet.

GOAT Contenders (all wrestlers I think I could realistically see voting at #1; doesn't necessarily mean they will be my 1-10): Aja Kong Bryan Danielon El Hijo del Santo Genichiro Tenryu Kenta Kobashi Mitsuharu Misawa Ric Flair Shinya Hashimoto Terry Funk Yoshiaki Fujiwara Wrestlers who could potentially crack my top 10: AJ Styles Akira Hokuto Buddy Rose Chigusa Nagayo Devil Masami El Satanico Hiroshi Tanahashi Jaguar Yokota Jumbo Tsuruta Jun Akiyama Jushin Liger Kiyoshi Tamura Negro Casas Nick Bockwinkel Rey Mysterio Jr. Stan Hansen Tatsumi Fujinami Toshiaki Kawada Vader Yuki Ishikawa

Is that really such a wild take? It got a #1 vote in the GME poll this year, and landed in the top 200 overall.

Honestly did not expect this thread to be so negative post-2016. It's interesting, because on other corners of the internet, I've seen Punk talked up as a legitimate #1 contender or at bare minimum top 10, and that just hasn't seemed to translate to this thread. I wonder if those people will end up submitting a ballot next year, and how that'll affect his ranking on the overall list. Anyway, Punk will make my list, somewhere between 40-75, for all the reasons (both positive and negative) listed here. Where do people stand on CM Punk, post-AEW and in the midst of his second WWE stint? Has his comeback work helped or hurt his case to you? I love a lot of his AEW run, especially the Last Dance 2023 stuff up to and including the final Joe match, but I'm mostly ambivalent to the current WWE work.

Save Fujiwara, Tamura will be my highest ranked shoot-stylist. Unbelievable combination of athleticism and skill, and brings a certain character that's so easy for me to connect with in these shoot style matches, whether it be the cocky underdog in Takada's UWFi, the prodigy in the first year in RINGS, or the established ace against underdogs like Yamamoto in those peak 97-99 years. Unreal how good he looks early in his career, too; I think the 1992 Yoji Anjo match is a legitimate classic, and I wouldn't be mad if someone said that wasn't even his best work in UWFi. Top 20 contender

In an ideal world, Aja is at least top 15 on the overall list next year. I don't expect to see it, but I do expect her to be even higher than she was in 2016, and I suppose that's a victory in its own right.

Funnily, I think 2003 might be my answer. Same opponents as 2002 and about the same level of quality of matches but stretched out over a full year, plus the Brock match in December.

What's the best individual year of Rey's career?

Surprisingly lack of discussion for YAMATO considering he's hyped as a low-key WOTY candidate for the Dragon Gate fanbase. Where does everyone stand on YAMATO today? Where does he rank as far as best Toryumon/DG guys ever? How does he compare to contemporaries from other companies like Shiozaki, Tanahashi, Sekimoto, HARASHIMA, Okada, Naito, Ibushi, etc?

Love the 02 Hero match, have seen practically nothing else. Any recommendations? I know the Kingston cage match gets a lot of hype, and I'm planning on getting to it.

Don't know if I'd vote for Kanemaru but I really really enjoy his early 2000s NOAH stuff, I'm up to 2002 and imo he's easily the best junior in the promotion by that point sans Ogawa. Would like to hear a case for him as someone that's mostly unfamiliar with his post-NOAH work.

Got all the way up to #229 in 2016. Where do people stand on Gino Hernandez currently?

Anyone considering Sandman this time around? I'm not nearly familiar enough with ECW to make a case for him, but I do enjoy Sandman and think he's probably better than he was given credit for in this thread.

The wonderful thing about the project this time around is that a wrestler like Yuki Ishikawa, someone who most would agree is great and deserving of consideration for a top 100 list (he was #70 in 2016), is now getting legitimate consideration as a potential dark horse #1 candidate. I wasn't a part of the process last time around, but judging from all the threads I'd imagine that if someone were to float the idea of Ishikawa as a #1 contender, it would be met with a level of derision by a few vocal contributors, and would inevitably invite comparisons to a certain wrestler, and I think it's a good sign that that's not the case anymore. One of the wrestlers I'm most interested to see where they end up next year, especially given how he's added to his case in the near-decade since the last poll (the 2020 Ikeda match especially).