David Mantell

OK let's clear this one up as it's an old chestnut brought out by amateur wrestlers who hate the professional game. This falls into two categories: 1) The basic roll as counter to arm lever. The most characteristic British countermove used by everyone from the early days to the kids nowadays. Also used by everyone trained/mentored (in reality or kayfabe) by a British wrestler, such as Owen Hart or Nick Dinsmore as Eugene under Regal's instruction. Some wrestlers had alternatives - Jim Breaks would swivel round on his posterior, Steve Grey would do the same with an oustreched leg to pull apart the wrist lever leaving the attaker's wrist free to be wristlocked back in return, Dynamite Kid and Danny Collins popularised the cartwheel, virtually all French wrestlers use the flying headscissofs. 2) The more advanced Irish Whip (also the name used for in American Wrestling for the one armed slingshot into the ropes) in which while twisting the arm lever to force the kind of roll described above, you suddenly wrench the arm upwards, forcing your opponent to jump to avoid wrenching their arm and do the roll as a somersault from which they generally land badly on their backs (although some agile souls like Pete Roberts and even Johnny Saint can manage to make a feet first landing from this.) Even some Americans do this spot - case in point Barry Darsow as Demolition Smash in some of the Demos' matches with the British Bulldogs in '88 - don't quote me but I think he does it in their Milwaukee WrestleFest 88 match. The trouble with German wrestling is the mixture of formats it is preserved in. There was never actually a national West German or Austrian TV wrestling show (unlike the UK or France) but from 1979 up to 1999 the CWA religiously filmed itself in a variety of formats ranging from single handheld camcorder to professional multicamera OB setups. To further confound the issue, many of the latter are in b/w - whether this is because they were actually shot in mono as a leftover from the days of b/w TV or because the colour has been lost through tape copying or colour signal deterioration is a mystery. Germans went in for rounds the same as the UK (and France early on) and added their own twist of playing the latest cheesy pop hits between rounds. You can really date a German match from this aspect - it it's playing Take On Me by A-ha, Wild Boys by Duran Duran, Blame It On The Boogie by the Jacksons or whatever else is the current fave for mobile discos at weddings, then that really sets a match in its historical context. Germany seems to have been the most American-friendly Euro territory so with a big influx of Americans, that would take its toll on the technical quality of the German scene. On the other hand I have seen some quite good scientific wrestling from Germany that was practically British wrestling in another location. Dave Morgan vs Steve Logan (mk2 the Birmingham clean one who now runs K Star gyms) circa 1984 or Jason Cross vs Micahel Kovacs for the IWW Junior Heavyweight title in January 1999. I would also add Johnny Saint vs a heel Terry Rudge from the mid 1980s. German crowds marked for Saint's escapes just like Brits would for Saint against Finlay (with Paula) and Soldier Boy Steve Prince, just as they marked for the sportsmanship in Morgan vs Logan. So clearly you don't have to be British to get these things.

Got into old school French wrestling quite heavily a few years ago as a close relative of the old school British wrestling I grew up with. and have taken a much deeper dive since finding Matt D's channel. A few general questions I'd like to clear up first: What year did French Wrestling actully get cancelled from French TV and who was the Greg Dyke/Jamie Kellner of France? Also what was the story behind the move from A2 to FR3 in 1985 (as appears to have happened judging from Matt D's uploads) What year did wrestling move to 2er Chaine/Antenne2? I'm particularly interested because of the Jan '69 Delaporte & Bollet vs Montreal & Warnia de Z match which is on colour videotape. If the move was when 2er Chaine started in '64 (a few days before BBC2 in the UK) then it is reasonabe to suppose that all the bouts from October 1967 (when 2er went colour) up to 1974 in b/w on Matt D's channel were originally in colour - and more excitingly could be restored to colour using chroma dot recovery. (come to that, all the old film prints could be VidFIREd to get a VT picture look.) Can someone explain to me - clearly and from a neutral perspective - what the current venemous feud between FFCP/Marc Mercier and Wrestling Stars/FleshGodon/Jacky Richard is actually all about? Promotional rivalries are one thing but neither Max Crabtree and Brian Dixon nor Vince McMahon and Eric Bischoff ever took things this far - refusing to speak to journalists who talk to the other side and each acusing the other of being conmen and crooks.

I intend to have a long gradual go through this thread replying to various stuff. A bit of background, I grew up with British wrestling as my native territory and a lot of my attitude to it remains uncontaminated by American style smart philosophy. As a general point, Old school British wrestling (which I consider to be still alive - more anon), especially the clean matches, should be regarded as a different rather than defective form of match which is best enjoyed the way Kent Walton encouraged his viewers to appreciate it, by focussing on the ideally continuous flow of skill in escaping/reversing/countering rather than looking for a story and perhaps not finding one. This is how and why as I get older I find these matches the most enjoyable to watch, the flow of moves appealing to the intellect so that you actually WATCH rather than FEEL the action. Sneer if you will, but I intend to give the old school British purist's perspective on these wrestlers and matches. ( Incidentally, isn't it rather strange in American wrestling how when someone gets an arm lever on their opponent the opponent does absolutely nothing to reverse or escape the arm lever (such as roll on the mat to untwist the arm) but just stands there selling it? Also how the only escape from a side headlock down on the mat in American wrestling is to power ones way upward out of it rather than try and use e.g. a handstand to lever ones head out of the hold? )

This was part of a bunch of finishes where Fuji did not get to interfere, helping to set up the Survivor Series double turn by showing Ax and Smash doing their own thing (presumably what Fuji considered disobedient/insubordinant) Earlier that month of 8th at Bercy Stadium, Paris, at the same show as Rockin Robin's title win over Sherri, Fuji was not present at ringside (was actually not on the tour!) for the Demos beating the British Bulldogs without his help - Canal+/RTL's footage would be screened on the 8th November Prime Time Wrestling with Gorilla and Bobby noting Fuji's absence and wondering where he was (they pretending to be themselves in France on the tour.) In Rome, Italy on 16th, still with no Fuji, Demolition again beat the Bulldogs cleanly (although they had lost a non title match a few nights earlier in Milan.)-camera copies of both of these are on YT. After this Rockers bout on 24th, Demolition go back to being pure cheaters using Jimmy Hart's megaphone and interference from the Rougeaus to beat the Hart Foundation in a Summerslam '88 rematch, but starting the night afterwards on the 26th is the first of a couple of experimental goes with Demolition as babyfaces for the night. With no Fuji present (although erroneously announced as in attendence by ring announcer Mike McGuirk) they cleanly defend against the Bolsheviks that night in Salisbury, Maryland with the crowd enthusiastically behind them - the highlight being the former Kruscher Kruschev abusing the Bolsheviks as being "You Stinkin' Commies" (oh the irony). The footage eventually got televised in May '89 with commentary to imply that this was months after Fuji was gone and was included on a Demolition VHS compilation On 6th, two days before the Paris match was televised, the Demos are again babyfaces for the night, up against their eventual conquerors the Brain Busters at the Ottawa Civic centre, going to a DDQ. Earlier that day, Fuji was reportedly "barred" (kayfabe) from the Maple Leaf Gardens so the Demos beat the Bulldogs when Smash pinned Dynamite after Ax hit a double axe handle from the middle turnbuckle. In the meantime it's business as usual with several more Bulldogs and Rockers matches in late October/early November, presumably with Fuji present and in on the finish. However November 15th a live Brother Love show was held where Love told Ax and Smash that they needed Fuji's help to win, so they ordered Fuji back to the dressing room and beat jobbers Nick Ferrari and Art Penna - although the real intention was to have some Fuji-less footage ready for the December 17th edition of Superstars, Pro Wrestling Illustrated's Dave Rosenbaum picked up on this as the start of Demolition/Fuji dissention, claiming that Fuji was "mad at Demolition for this snub" and "ripe for an offer." (from the Powers, whom Ronsebaum seemed to imply had put BL up to starting trouble between Fuji and the Demos.) After this on the night of the Suvivor Series and mere minutes before the Demos turn babyface, Smash cleanly pins Dynamite Kid to eliminate the Bulldogs in their final WWF match. A few minutes later, Warlord has pranged his shoulder on the corner post and the Demos have the clear advantage. Whereupon Fuji gets up on the ring apron wavng his cane, gets ordered down by the ref, climbs up again - and the rest is history!