David Mantell

Jones using a mix of skill and psychological tactics,slapping Blackjack around and generally acting like a smug git trying to get Mulligan wound up enough to foul as Walton says - or rather foul clumsily in front of the referee. It pays off as Mulligan get a public warning in round 3, by which time he is a fall down. Jones was popular and Mulligan had heat enough that they could get away with this without any wrongway sympathy from anyone except maybe Walton. Jones makes it two straight in round 4 but he could have been even , he nearly gets a knockout from a piledriver but Mulligan gets up at 9, Jones piledrivers again but this time covers for a three. If you rewind to the first piledriver, you will see Jones leans in for the pin but realises he is too late and has to stand back while ref Dave Reece starts a 10 count. A bit swifter with the cover and it would be all one move and Jones could have shaved maybe 20 seconds off his match time.

Nice scientific bout for a pair of older heavyweights, plenty of good small details, like at the beginning where Czeslaw tries to reverse snapmare his way out of a hammerlock but senses Bartelli is up to something when the Count releases him and rolls quickly away while the going is good. If you've been watching this style long enough, you pick up on minor details like that (or like Clay Thompson using a scissorhold of his own to pry off Tony StClair's headscissors.) I was expecting a TKO or No Contest finish from @ohtani's jacket's comment s but even though that's what Walton calls it, it's actually a 10 count knockout. Under American rules, Bartelli would have been able to drape himself across Czeslaw for the pin. (Would that have made the finish better, OJ?) Bartelli accepts the victory and no one blames him for it although if that had been a heel, it could have been milked more heavily, the baddy taking advantage of a fluky or ill-gotten injury, like Rocco putting Danny Collins in a power lock after his leg was tangled in the ropes or Finlay arm-barring Saint's arm for a deciding submission after the arm was injured when Finlay threw Saint out the ring between rounds and he landed badly at ringside and even though it got Finlay a Second And Final Public Warning the referee still had not choice but to award him the deciding submission and 2-1 win. Technical point, the caption slides for the names on this video were doing using the same technology as the "WRESTLING" slide in big letters at the end of Thompson-StClair 1967 to lead from World of Sport into a commercial break and caught on the end of the WfGB overseas sales kinescopes. Bear in mind on the original monochrome 1967 broadcast it would have looked the same as on this purely electronic colour copy of the 1974 bout. Apart from the jump from b/W to colour and from 16mm kinescope print to preserved VT master, this is the same visual effect. That's why I'm not so keen on 16mm B/W film. The format was ubiquitous for around 70 years and it makes everything from a Charlie Chaplin film in 1909 to a TV show originally broadcast in colour in 1974 look the same, one big long swathe of "the old days of black and white." This unnecessarily ages relatively modern stuff from the 60s/70s to make it look like it came from the 1930s.

Which list? Do you mean @Matt D's videos that are unlisted on YouTube but accessible via Alessio's playlists? Not sure either if the 1988 (and 1991) TF1 episodes of New Catch didn't show up on the INA's site or if you chose to exclude them from the parameters of the subject. Does the INA's remit include TF1 after the 1987 privatisation? (Or come to that satellite channels receivable in France like Eurosport?)

I can't see Marc Mercier Vs Albert Sanniez 1978 from the FFCP channel. Nor this mysterious, visibly late 80s bout: I know @sergeiSem has it labelled as EWF but it's clearly not an episode of New Catch.

https://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2021/05/french-catch-tuesday-master-list.html?m=1 That list isn't sorted in date order and I can't find the bouts Bob posted (himself Vs Magnier, Di Santo Vs Chaisne, two lighter clean wrestlers).

Well we don't have the match but if we did and it was on TF1, it would presumably be in b/w albeit with an interlaced video picture such as an off air video recording might have, not a film-type picture like a kinescope might have. The only colour on TF1 (and it had only started a month earlier) at this point was repeats of unsyndicated FR3 shows in the afternoon.

Do you mean this list? https://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2014/05/la-complete-et-exacte-french-catch.html Cos that's a very threadbare list, only half a dozen post-1969 entries. As I've said before, what is needed is either a French @JNLister or some old time French fans who noted TV details down at the time and pooled their records to put together an entire 1952-1987 chronicle of French TV wrestling.

Indeed. Either not every live broadcast was kinescoped (or every tape delay match was kinescoped before the tape was wiped for reuse.) OR ELSE some bouts all 3 or 4 bicycled overseas sales prints were destroyed by the last TV station/destroyed by ORTF on return/taken home on return and now stashed in the garden shed of some elderly film collector in the rural Mediterranean South. How do we sort the blog list and what other lists do we have?

I know about that list but not how to sort it into date or any other searchable order. Is that Michel Di Santo Vs Michel Chaisne match where Fred Magnier comes out in street clothes and gets his behind kicked or from the same taping where Magnier faces Bob Plantin where Fred and Delaporte get in a fight and Delaporte has to reluctantly declare Magnier winner by TKO or the snippet of two young lighter weights starting on a clean match on the list?

According to the calendar on my tablet, 18th August 1975 was a Monday! The nearest Saturday 18 August either way was 1973 (when TF1 was still 1er Chaine De l'ORTF and Zarak was still Le Batman) or 1979. Corne and Falempin teamed on TV quite a bit through the 70s but I don't think they became les Celts with the light green trunks ("Allez Les Verts!") until 1977 when they faced Jacky Richard and Jean Menard although I could be totally wrong about that . My guess is 1979, by which time TF1 was in full colour. It does go to show that not every last remaining terrestrial wrestling broadcast 1975-1987 was taped by the INA and that what Matt D has on his channel was by no means the complete collection and that there was more French TV wrestling in those later years than can be assumed from just looking at his channel. I see that 1975 date has been handwritten on. Perhaps the handwriter screwed up.

Yup I was right - here is Le Grand Vladimir in Germany in the VdB in 1983: That ring with the yellow ropes and vertical cords reminds me of the ring in one of the two 1970s Roland Bock clips we have.

Have copied all the above over to the British thread.

David Mantell: London and the South East accents: Received pronunciation was invented by the BBC in the 1920s so that everyone could understand radio broadcasts. Al Hayes as a Babyface in the WWF is the nearest wrestling example (not his AWA/Florida accent which was a caricature.) Most speakers of it are native of some other accent and put on RP to get ahead in life. (Actual aristocratic accents evolved in the 1200s when the nobility switched from speaking French to speaking Anglo Saxon with a French accent. RP, contrary to popular opinion, is not the same as aristocratic English which was deemed by linguists devising RP to actually contain quite a few impurities. Cockney is the accent of the traditional East London working class, whose economy was based around the docks on the Thames (which generated at least three side industries, warehousing, street markets and petty crime.) Following a 1930s boom in electrical good manufacturer, newly prosperous Cockneys spread across the Southeast generating at least 3 spinoff accents, Norf Lahndern, Sarf Lahndern (as spoken by Mick McManus) and moden Essex ( Jeannie Clarke especially in her WCW Lady Blossom promos where she laid it on with a trowel) which partly displaced an earlier Essex accent - see East Anglia below.) Northern accents: Liverpool - known as Scouse- a relatively modern development from a fusion of Lancashire and Irish accents. Like the East End Liverpool was a big sea port - it still is today. Typical speaker: Robbie Brookside. He actually speaks with a modern rougher version of the accent - the softer Beatles accent is mostly relegated to Birkenhead, south of the Mersey where All Star has its offices. (Example MC Laetitia Dixon on C21st All Star shows.) Rest of traditional Lancashire - the Manchester accent plus relatives further North in Preston. Blackpool etc. There are DOZENS of sub dialects of this in Manchester alone. Easier to understand: Davey Boy Smith, Rocco, Giant Haystacks, Johnny Saint, Billy Robinson. If you want the harder stuff try Dynamite Kid especially in the Benoit docu or the Wigan Snakepit crowd in the 1989 First Tuesday The Wigan Hold docu especially Tommy "Jack Dempsey"Moore. Somewhere in between is Peter Thornley when out of character as Kendo Nagasaki. Yorkshire - the rest of the central North (Lancashire is cut off by a mountain range called the Pennies). Further divides into North Yorkshire - Big Daddy, Jim Breaks, Leon Arras "Owz about that then?" Alan Dennison - check out the speech he gives when refusing a TKO over Dynamite Kid in Dynamite's TV debut. Unfortunately the most famous wrestler from South Yorkshire was the deaf and non verbal Alan Kilby from Sheffield which is not a lot of help. Northeast - the two most famous Tyneside accents are Geordie (Newcastle) and Sunderland (Mackem). Can't think of any wrestlers from that part of the world who ever spoke on camera. Midlands accents: West Midlands - where I live: Three main accents: Black Country (Dudley, Wolverhampton, Walsall) Brummie (Birmingham City Centre) Coventry/Warwickshire. Chris Adams had a definite hint of the third accent although he was from Stratford on Avon. Sadly Banger Walsh never did much talking on camera. The first one, if you're familiar with the rock band Slade, it's that accent. East Midlands - various accents, about the most memorable one in wrestling was Ken Joyce's Northampton accent. Check out after his 1981 2-0 loss to Johnny Saint - "Johnny Saint beat me FEAR and SQUEER, I thoroughly ENJUYED it and now I UNDERSTUND why you are the world champion" (My emphasis) Other accents: East Anglia- the bulgy bit on the right hand side of the country. Three main accents Norfolk, Suffolk and Old Essex. Norfolk is easy, the Knight family and practically everyone in WAW. Check out "Fighting With My Family" or some WAW YouTube clips. Can't think of any good wrestling examples of the latter two - Old Essex survives in the country villages but in the London commuter belt and the North side of the Thames Estuary (Southend) it's been mostly replaced by modern Essex. (As a child in 1980s Chigwell I remember some old people doing the old accent.) West Country (South west) accents - seen as the traditional Country Yokel accent in the UK. the most famous variant is Somerset known outside the UK as the Pirate Accent (because an actor with that accent played Long John Silver in the movie of Treasure Island even though of course pirates come from all over the place.) Danny Collins had a related Bristol City accent, check out some non promo TV interviews he did such as for BBC Breakfast Time in the mid 80s. Hampshire, a county halfway between the West Country (SW) and the Home Counties (London, SE). has its own particular accent. Check out the British version of Skull Murphy, Peter Northey, who came from Portsmouth. His dad Charles who wrestled as Roy Bull Davies, also has that accent in the 1967 Granada TV documentary The Wrestlers. Wales (when they're speaking English). Orig Williams is the closest I can think of to the cliched "well there's lovely then, boyo" accent but for a different accent check out Adrian Street's south Wales accent on his pop records and his promos in America in the 80s. From the German Catch thread.

There were two Russians in the UK, one was a Canadian, the other was a Frenchman doing the same gimmick he did back home in France and we have footage of him doing it in both territories and Germany too IIRC. There was a massive wave of immigration into Britain from the Commonwealth in the 1950s so it was perfectly credible that people who had come here from Jamaica, Sierra Leone, Pakistan etc genuinely came from there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_generation This really belongs on the British thread, but anyway: London and the South East accents: Received pronunciation was invented by the BBC in the 1920s so that everyone could understand radio broadcasts. Al Hayes as a Babyface in the WWF is the nearest wrestling example (not his AWA/Florida accent which was a caricature.) Most speakers of it are native of some other accent and put on RP to get ahead in life. (Actual aristocratic accents evolved in the 1200s when the nobility switched from speaking French to speaking Anglo Saxon with a French accent. RP, contrary to popular opinion, is not the same as aristocratic English which was deemed by linguists devising RP to actually contain quite a few impurities. Cockney is the accent of the traditional East London working class, whose economy was based around the docks on the Thames (which generated at least three side industries, warehousing, street markets and petty crime.) Following a 1930s boom in electrical good manufacturer, newly prosperous Cockneys spread across the Southeast generating at least 3 spinoff accents, Norf Lahndern, Sarf Lahndern (as spoken by Mick McManus) and moden Essex ( Jeannie Clarke especially in her WCW Lady Blossom promos where she laid it on with a trowel) which partly displaced an earlier Essex accent - see East Anglia below.) Northern accents: Liverpool - known as Scouse- a relatively modern development from a fusion of Lancashire and Irish accents. Like the East End Liverpool was a big sea port - it still is today. Typical speaker: Robbie Brookside. He actually speaks with a modern rougher version of the accent - the softer Beatles accent is mostly relegated to Birkenhead, south of the Mersey where All Star has its offices. (Example MC Laetitia Dixon on C21st All Star shows.) Rest of traditional Lancashire - the Manchester accent plus relatives further North in Preston. Blackpool etc. There are DOZENS of sub dialects of this in Manchester alone. Easier to understand: Davey Boy Smith, Rocco, Giant Haystacks, Johnny Saint, Billy Robinson. If you want the harder stuff try Dynamite Kid especially in the Benoit docu or the Wigan Snakepit crowd in the 1989 First Tuesday The Wigan Hold docu especially Tommy "Jack Dempsey"Moore. Somewhere in between is Peter Thornley when out of character as Kendo Nagasaki. Yorkshire - the rest of the central North (Lancashire is cut off by a mountain range called the Pennies). Further divides into North Yorkshire - Big Daddy, Jim Breaks, Leon Arras "Owz about that then?" Alan Dennison - check out the speech he gives when refusing a TKO over Dynamite Kid in Dynamite's TV debut. Unfortunately the most famous wrestler from South Yorkshire was the deaf and non verbal Alan Kilby from Sheffield which is not a lot of help. Northeast - the two most famous Tyneside accents are Geordie (Newcastle) and Sunderland (Mackem). Can't think of any wrestlers from that part of the world who ever spoke on camera. Midlands accents: West Midlands - where I live: Three main accents: Black Country (Dudley, Wolverhampton, Walsall) Brummie (Birmingham City Centre) Coventry/Warwickshire. Chris Adams had a definite hint of the third accent although he was from Stratford on Avon. Sadly Banger Walsh never did much talking on camera. The first one, if you're familiar with the rock band Slade, it's that accent. East Midlands - various accents, about the most memorable one in wrestling was Ken Joyce's Northampton accent. Check out after his 1981 2-0 loss to Johnny Saint - "Johnny Saint beat me FEAR and SQUEER, I thoroughly ENJUYED it and now I UNDERSTUND why you are the world champion" (My emphasis) Other accents: East Anglia- the bulgy bit on the right hand side of the country. Three main accents Norfolk, Suffolk and Old Essex. Norfolk is easy, the Knight family and practically everyone in WAW. Check out "Fighting With My Family" or some WAW YouTube clips. Can't think of any good wrestling examples of the latter two - Old Essex survives in the country villages but in the London commuter belt and the North side of the Thames Estuary (Southend) it's been mostly replaced by modern Essex. (As a child in 1980s Chigwell I remember some old people doing the old accent.) West Country (South west) accents - seen as the traditional Country Yokel accent in the UK. the most famous variant is Somerset known outside the UK as the Pirate Accent (because an actor with that accent played Long John Silver in the movie of Treasure Island even though of course pirates come from all over the place.) Danny Collins had a related Bristol City accent, check out some non promo TV interviews he did such as for BBC Breakfast Time in the mid 80s. Hampshire, a county halfway between the West Country (SW) and the Home Counties (London, SE). has its own particular accent. Check out the British version of Skull Murphy, Peter Northey, who came from Portsmouth. His dad Charles who wrestled as Roy Bull Davies, also has that accent in the 1967 Granada TV documentary The Wrestlers. Wales (when they're speaking English). Orig Williams is the closest I can think of to the cliched "well there's lovely then, boyo" accent but for a different accent check out Adrian Street's south Wales accent on his pop records and his promos in America in the 80s.

This is John Foley. JR Foley from Stampede teaming with the heel who sold antiques in his spare time in Granada TV's the Wrestlers. Ginsberg was the one with the lighter hair/beard. Billed as Americans - see discussion on German Catch thread. Nice stroppy Ginsberg throws at the end over the French ref and French fans. RBC reportedly had classic matches with George Kidd in the 50s. A Catch A Quatre maybe isn't the best shop window for his technical skills.

1993 German TV documentary on the CWA:

I get the distinct impression Haystacks was having quite a laugh with that "Us Americans" thing. Like Liam Gallagher going "Thass right La, I'm from Alabama me and Our Kid Noel and so's Our Mam, yeah, honest la.". I doubt too many Americans know the difference between different regional English accents - I've heard reports of the Manc woman out of Friends/Frasier/whatever being called a Cockney in the American media. I can tell Spanish and Latin American accents apart (the former is sharp, staccato and cawing, the latter more sing-song and they don't do the lisp.) , I know the growly Parisian speak that is the French equivalent of (actual) Cockney in Britain or Bronx-speak in America. (You'll hear a lot of growly Parisian on the French Catch matches)

Apart from a few little glimpses of an early 60s McManus/Pallo bout and about 2 seconds of Les Kellet Vs Jim Hussey on a shop TV screen in Granada TV's The Wrestlers, the below two are the only other pre-1970 ITV Wrestling footage in circulation. Taken from The Final Bell, December 1988 Jeff Kaye Vs Pancho Zapata 1969 Ricki Star Vs Pietro Capello, 1964 in the distinctive Belle Vue ring, Peter Cockburn (pronounced Co-burn) providing commentary: It's hard to be certain but I think the first clip might be VT not kinescope.

It used to be quite common although there has been a backlash against it in recent years. We call your football "American Football" by the way. Bear that in mind when you hear British fans talk of "American Wrestling" especially in the late 80s circa the ITV WWF Specials, when American Wrestling felt like an exotic novelty.

Here we are. Preceded by a GLORIOUS promo with Haystacks talking about how tough "Us Americans" are. in a broad Manchester accent!!! Although to be fair, third team-mate Mighty John Quinn once cut an in ring "gee" on ITV about how his "Congressman" told him to beat up Big Daddy. Quinn was a Canadian, Canada has MPs not Congressmen

OK, but Judo Al Hayes wasn't.

Here is the entry in the Midlands magazine TV World (due to a dispute the Midlands opted out of TVTimes 1963-1968) for the bout. One detail I got wrong, WOS wasn't hosted by Eamonn Andrews, it will was already taken over by Dickie Davies. Or rather Richard Davies as he was then known, before his wife persuaded him to change his professional name, grow an "Anchor Man" moustache and for a few years wear trendy flowery shirts before fashions changed and he reverted back to a suit and tie. (EDIT: it says in the small print he was relief presenter for a holidaying Andrews. Some time later, Dickie Davies took over permanently and became a national institution.)

Yes I was going to dig out a triple tag where not only Haystacks but King Kong Kirk were billed as Americans. Kirk was from Pontefract in West Yorkshire. I doubt too many Americans know about Pontefract or Pontefract cakes. (See also Rollerball Rocco, Tommy Mann. the Black Diamonds and Dave Bond being called Americans - and Judo Al Hayes and Rebel Ray Hunter being call Australians - on French TV over the years.) (Also to be fair.big Stax liked to kid himself he was Irish.)

Fair catch. Wikipedia says "Wurzel" (© OSW YouTube) was billed from Nice, France. Possibly I read something kayfabe somewhere.

P.S. have taken the liberty of saving the match to hard drive on this tablet (and feeling very proud too, I've never done that on anything less than a laptop before) and copying it to a memory stick which lives plugged into the back of my Smart TV so now I can just watch the bout in style on a proper TV screen at just a few clicks on the remote control. If it can be done on a tablet then it probably can be done on a smartphone too.