Mantaur Rodeo Clown

I mean the answer to the question is plainly writ if you just look at even the top 25 or so of the 2016 list: 25) Barry Windham 24) Steve Austin 23) Shinya Hashimoto 22) Negro Casas 21) William Regal 20) Tatsumi Fujinami 19) Arn Anderson 18) Randy Savage 17) Bret Hart 16) Nick Bockwinkel 15) Ricky Steamboat 14) Vader 13) Genichiro Tenryu 12) Eddie Guerrero 11) Jumbo Tsuruta 10) Jerry Lawler 9) Toshiaki Kawada 8 ) Kenta Kobashi 7) Rey Mysterio Jr. 6) Jushin Liger 5) Daniel Bryan 4) Mitsuharu Misawa 3) Stan Hansen 2) Terry Funk 1) Ric Flair You won't be shocked to discover that barring one or two exceptions, all the top picks were also all main-event level players at one time or another in the biggest wrestling promotions in the world. Even Regal was about to get a main event run before he wellness'd himself. It turns out that truly great pro wrestlers like making money and wrestling in front of big crowds full of hot fans, and will work throughout their career to make that happen. What are the circumstances where someone who has the ability of a Top 100 GWE decides to just work in front of 30 people for peanuts for their entire career as a matter of choice? That simply doesn't exist.

First of all: Katzuhori? lol what? This thread was made in 2014, it's not like Shibata was some rookie who had just appeared. He hasn't really added to his case during his time in AEW. Some fine matches, but nothing to blow your socks off. Everyone of course will say "it's such a shame about the injury, it robbed him of some good years!" as if it is a bug, not a feature. When your style is actually kicking the shit out of people and them kicking the shit out of you, it's par for the course. Not exactly the most versatile worker of all time. But it's hard to argue with the heights he touched from 2013-2017. He'll be on the list, but somewhere lower.

No. "Makabe is a self taught backyard wrestler..." yes, I have eyes. I can see that. Benefits from the low-expectations of indies. If I paid my 10 bucks and saw this guy in a gym in front of 50 other people, I'm sure I would pleasantly surprised and he'd probably be one of the best workers on the show. His act is fairly clean and he avoids a lot of pitfalls that other indie workers fall into. But come on, top 100 of all time? The guy is clearly a competent amateur. It honestly not fair on the guy to put him in those conversations.

It's been four years since the last post in this thread, and I still haven't seen a good argument for why Flair shouldn't be considered Top 5 of all time at worst. One of the most complete packages in wrestling history, and has remained in high esteem despite having his career picked apart and scrutinized more closely than nearly anyone else in contention.

Impossible challenge: Pro wrestling forum poster doesn't draw extremely long bow to make 8th-grade level point about "SOCIETY, MAN" and attempt to tie it back to wrestling. I'm almost shocked you didn't make a McDonalds analogy there. Besides being a questionable analogy in the first place, has absolutely nothing to do with Gunther's ability as a wrestler and status as one of the modern greats who has risen to the top of his field.

I mean it's the problem with compiling a list like this in the first place. Where would Andre the Giant rank if he was just losing the opening match on every card in three minutes? Booking and perception can be impossible to separate, we just do the best we can. I think the counter-argument is that only Brock would be accepted with this sort of booking, due to the unique physical and reputational qualities he possesses. Because no one else in pro wrestling history has ever gone to win a UFC title after their WWE debut. While it doesn't strictly make him a better pro wrestler, it undeniably adds to his aura. Hence why Lesnar was really the best option for ending the streak. As I've said before, many people have been handed the keys to the kingdom and given big wins. But few have had the impact of Brock. How many "passing the torch" moments did Reigns need to get over, 8? 9? Booking is a big part of things, but it isn't everything. Lesnar clearly has a way of connecting with fans that an overwhelming majority of other workers in the history of the business do not. Whether that's his great looking offense, his tremendous selling or something else entirely, is up for discussion.

You know, for all this thread's talk about how big an influence Benoit was, I can't seem to find anyone in the modern wrestling scene that comes close to approaching his level of intensity in the ring. Even ignoring dubious claims like PWG wouldn't exist without Benoit (lmao), I assumed someone supposedly so influential would have multiple people aping his hard-nosed style. Perhaps someone like Dragunov would be his modern analog, but even that does not seem quite right. I'm open to suggestion.

One of the best looks in professional wrestling. Pretty decent on the stick, could be led to a good match in the ring. His RAW match with Martel a favorite. But his true strength was his squash matches. He really perfected the RAW squash match down to a science: the entrance, something happen to his gold chico..., the toothpick flick, the mat-wrestle and head slap, the abdominal stretch, chokeslam, the sack of shit, the career-ender, FINISH, and remember to tuck your chin brother. The WWF didn't want nor did it need him to be out there wrestling for 30 minutes each night, it needed him to squash people for 4 minutes at a time. And he was one of the best in the biz at doing it. Clearly also one of the smartest and most influential wrestlers of his generation in terms of character, and what he did for the business. Is it enough to crack the top 100? Probably not. But he was a big star in the business for a reason, one that isn't necessarily always reflected in Cagematch rankings or WON reports, and I think he was a lot better than other posters have given him credit for.

No. The Big Show is not a good wrestler, and despite being given what seemed like dozens of chances over his lengthy career, never truly got his act over.

The four pillars cosplay stuff for me is tolerable at best, and actually laughable at its worst. It's an example of where AEW could use better road agents, who can tell him to cut that shit out. Because when Kingston has an opponent that plays to his actual strengths, he's very good. He also happens to be possibly the best promo of the past 20 years.

Easily one of the best 100 wrestlers in the world. Just a shame he had to cripple himself to do it. Out, out, brief candle. That RAW '97 match vs HBK is doing the rounds on social media again, what a fantastic little TV match it is. Each year we have more wrestlers destroy their bodies in death matches and hardcore extravaganzas, but not one of them has come close to evoking the pathos or sense of humanity that Foley brought to his matches. It's not real violence if the audience doesn't feel it along with you. Foley understood this, and killed himself to make the fans feel it.

Curious to see if he will add anything to his legacy in this run. I doubt it, as he will likely only work against "big" names who are unambitious, can't work, or both. But they wasted a decade of having the best monster wrestler in the history of the business, so what's wasting a couple more years and millions of dollars? He's in my top 100 regardless. The man cannot cut a promo. He's got vast gaps in his resume and worked far fewer matches than most people. His matches became annoyingly one note and lazy. But physically the man has more innate talent than most other wrestlers in history, and as much as he hates pro wrestling, he also understand the business more than most. Has his insane booking helped? Of course. But thousands of wrestlers have been given big pushes in history, and very few ever became the spectacle that Brock Lesnar was and still is to this day. WWE babyfaces in the 2010s could almost be defined by their Brock matches. Brock as an adjective for a type of match that he has clearly mastered. This last(?) run will really only decide placement.

Look, if it was any other wrestler I could go along with that and blame poor booking. But this is the guy that was the face of the company for two decades and one of their biggest draws. He absolutely has enough pull backstage to pretty much book himself however he wants. (Bringing back Brock as an opponent as an example, which he absolutely signed off on). I'm not saying it's the easiest thing in the world, even Austin couldn't get them to really hate him in '01. But after one of the hottest heel turns in recent memory, I just haven't seen enough in-ring or character-wise from Cena to add to his case. So we really only have his midcard heel act from 2003 to support his case as a versatile wrestler

He'll be in my top 100. Even ignoring the fact he is one of the most influential wrestlers of his generation, he's a very good wrestler. Was one of the best juniors in the world for a couple of years before heading to the fed, where they obviously value his character work and generosity far more. He does suffer from Orton disease, where his later matches have never really gotten out of second gear. Low ceiling, high floor kind of guy. Absolute consistency, perfect for steering a midcard. Off the top of my head, his match with PAC that got them signed, his match with Kenny, his match with Low Ki, Ibushi rivalry, matches with Tanahashi, Okada and Gedo, Joe matches, Kyle O'Reilly NXT match and Lesnar match all show a great deal of his peaks and ability to work different styles. Unless he has a Mutoh type renaissance, I can't see him adding too much in his final years

I have to disagree in Cena's case, because it shows he lacks understanding in the craft of professional wrestling, despite now doing it for a quarter of a century. No one in his position, with that much experience and that much creative freedom, should have a long-awaited heel run go that poorly. If you're one of the 100 greatest wrestlers of all time, you should be able to play both a heel and a face (or be Ricky Steamboat). So while any bad matches he might have won't detract, the fact that he's finally supposed to be working a different style/character after 22 years and is flopping DOES detract.

I mean just going off your description of WWE, it's clear you have some teenage angst-y axe to grind against it and I'm clearly not going to change your opinion on it. The fact of the matter is that being able to adapt your style and work in any promotion and get over anywhere is a marker of a great wrestler. If you can't get over even in a "remarkably narrow" situation, you probably aren't one of the 100 Greatest Wrestlers Ever. There are plenty of wrestlers who were over in the American Legion Hall in Reseda. But can you get a crowd invested at Smackdown house show in Corpus Christi? I do not understand what you are trying to say.

That isn't what I said. My statement is, if you are THAT much better than your contemporaries you will eventually go to WWE and main event, because making the most money and wrestling in front of huge audiences is the end goal for 95 per cent of wrestlers. Considering WWE had a virtual monopoly over professional wrestling in the western world for two decades, it's only natural. If you were a gifted indie wrestler in the 2000s/2010s, you eventually went to WWE if you were good enough, and you tried to become a main eventer. Bryan, AJ, Joe, Punk, Low Ki, Hero, Black, Aries, Moxley, Black, Ciampa, Gargano, Ricochet, PAC, Balor, Owens, Zayn, KENTA et al. ad nauseum. Gunther/WALTER has done better than many of those names, due to his ability to adapt his work and himself, and his flexibility in that regard is a credit to him.

Everyone likes to tout these indie "sensations" who wrestle for mudshows like DPW or whatever, saying they're doing proper gritty, hard-hitting, old-school wrestling. The majority of all those wrestlers are terrible. Because if you're actually that good, you go to WWE, become world champion and main event for millions of dollars. WALTER/Gunther is one of those indie guys that was actually as good as advertised. One of the greats of the modern era, a lock for the top 100. Has all the tools. Elevates any match he is in. Has adapted and grown his style within the confines of the restrictive WWE system, and thrived. Fairly confident in saying he is the best European wrestler in WWE since Andre.

I thought the exact opposite. I think he's been terrible in AEW, mainly as his body has failed him and he lacks any of the explosiveness that made his act so exciting in his prime. Putting the belt on him was a horrible decision that reflected in the poor ratings and declining interest at the time. In contrast, having recently revisited his early NXT stuff, he looks great. He was clearly more motivated and in shape knowing it was likely his only chance to impress Vince/Hunter, and the Balor matches are actually well-worked breaths of fresh air to revisit. 10 years really does fly by. As an aside, I am still furious that Vince stopped their Dallas match to clean the blood off Joe's face. That was an all time gusher and made Joe look like an absolute killer. Instantly woke up the crowd who were drained from Nakamura/Zayn and made the match.

I don't want you to think I'm being ironic in anyway ohtani's jacket. This is actually a pretty fascinating post. The lines that jump out at me being This is such an interesting point. Danielson certainly saw how a gimmick on being the "American Dragon" who wrestled in Japan and was a shoot grappler would get over in 2000s independent wrestling world. He was a "master technician" long before he was a master, much like Ric Flair was a living legend long before he actually was. Living the gimmick. But yes, he had trouble selling himself as legit dangerous with his size and his lack of athleticism. Compare it with Kurt Angle or Brock Lesnar who also had the shooter gimmicks, but moved so differently in the ring. If you've haven't watched Wrestling Road Diaries in a while, please revisit it. It is just 90 minutes of camcorder footage showing that Bryan Danielson GETS the business. He is a worker in the old school sense. That's why he made it to WWE before so many of his peers, and why McMahon saw he would have a use for him. How many people get fired for fucking up a major angle with a shoot necktie choke, and get hired back straight away? I think he did his better stuff much later in his career, when he gave up trying to be "legit" and just worked as a canny, veteran wrestler who can take a beating. His Brock match is actually fantastic, he had some genuinely classy matches with Orton on Raw in 2013, and his AEW run has more hits than misses, which is rare for someone with as many miles on their body as he has.

Don't understand anyone not considering him for top 100. Consistency obviously has a place, but when a wrestler's ceiling is THAT high, if they have THAT sort of command of a crowd for so long, they're one of the greats. See: Okada, Nakamura, Orton I don't think lazy is ever the right term. No pro wrestler is lazy. There are much easier way to be lazy than take bumps every single week. You just work yourself into the bosses ear, or you stay at home for months due to creative differences. Lazy is Kevin Nash in WCW. It's Miro in AEW. The more correct term is unambitious. Nakamura has an over act, Orton has an over finish, why mess with an all-time great formula. Keiji Mutoh had the fans hooked just on pure presence and aura. Because he was that good. Revisited some of the Tenryu matches in '99. Just good plain fun with surly old man Tenryu against Norwood 4 Mutoh. Then the spectacle slop brawls with Jinsei Shinzaki and Liger. The 2002 Kawada match another classic in his renaissance, where he was probably more influential than we give him credit for, in terms of pacing, momentum and big finishes.

I mean of course, minimalist with respect to his current role in AEW. He is merely Jerry Lawler in comparison to guys like Ospreay, Fletcher, Takeshita et al. Obviously nobody actually wrestles like Jerry Lawler these days, because then they wouldn't get booked. I think there's something to be said for being a flexible, versatile base when you're a heel. Instead of just overpowering every match and making it a Flair match or an MJF match or an Ospreay match, a heel who can adapt and showcase the face more is actually a talent. Whether that means he can't raise a mediocre wrestler up is another thing

I can't see how you can praise Ospreay and then damn Omega at the same time. He is essentially just baby-Omega, but with less sense of match structure or pacing. He is every bit as "pretentious" as Omega, just with less presentation skills. It's interesting you say he'll be number one in a decade, because unless he learns to actually work a match on something other than his freakish athleticism, I think he will decline rapidly and people will sour on him.

The Rock stopped being a full-time wrestler, at the peak of his powers, at the age of 31. Most wrestlers don't even have it figured out by then, and he was the biggest star in the world. And now he is more famous than any wrestler ever, barring perhaps Andre. As such, he is the greatest What If of all time. Magnum T.A would have been big time. Brian Pillman would have been electrifying during the Attitude Era. Bret could have had a great return run after WCW folded. But none of them would have been The Rock if he had stayed through the 2000s. The impact on him leaving on business was clear, and when he did return to skyrocket ratings again, he'd simply been away too long and lost too much. ' For that reason, I don't think he can be rated at the top end of any list. But a shoe-in for the top 100.

While I'd be delighted to be wrong, I'm fairly certain Omega is now well and truly on the downslope of his career and we've probably seen the best performances we're ever going to see out of him. It makes it appropriate then to judge him now. I think he is a very talented wrestler with a good, well-rounded act. He is a middling promo in English, and a surprisingly compelling one in Japanese. He is versatile as both a heel and a face and can work a midcard comedy match as well as an hour-long main event. He is also a terrific hardcore wrestler. In terms of the industry, it might be harder to find a single wrestler that has had a greater impact in transforming the landscape of professional wrestling in the past 10 years than Omega. A feather in his cap. Omega's uncompromising pursuit of his vision of professional wrestling does however, come with downsides. It has limited him and his performances to a certain degree. He errs into hokey, cartoonish selling too often, and falls into his classic tropes without variation too often. His matches and acclaim have in part contributed to a cargo cult pursuit of high spots and explosive action for crowd reaction that ultimately had harmed professional wrestling, although he can't be held to account too much for that. And I don't know if I've ever seen a greater chasm between how good a wrestler is and how shitty their gear looks. On the Okada series alone, he would make my top 100. How high he goes will take some revisiting. I have watched him wrestle live several times, including being lucky enough to watch him put together a very good match in Tokyo, (over)rated 5 stars by WON. But there is an undeniable presence to him and electricity to his work live that makes me thing he is destined to go down as at least one of the top 25 wrestlers of all time.