PTB Episode 202: Monday Night Wars 1/4/99

[Bigelow34]

In this new episode of the PTB Podcast Vintage Vault, Scott, Justin and Chad Campbell join together to review the 1/4/99 Monday Night Wars. Chad was live in the Georgia Dome for Nitro and Justin was at the Centrum in Worcester for Raw and each lend their unique perspective to the review. They talk about Hollywood Hogan, Goldberg, Kevin Nash, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels, Rock and much, much more.

 

So fire up this action packed episode and join Scott, Justin and Chad in reviewing this historic night of wrestling in another edition of the PTB Podcast!

 

Also, please note that the upcoming schedule has changed since we recorded this episode.

 

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[JerryvonKramer]

Is it weird that I was listening to this last night, I found myself being curiously defensive about Scott's various attacks on WCW?

 

In a funny way, when we eventually hit this era, I'm sort of looking forward to it.

 

Anyway, this was a good idea for a show, although I do think the WWE hype machine rather over plays the impact of Tony's "Foley is winning the title on the other side" line. I mean, yes, it was really stupid but I'm with Justin in thinking that WCW might easily have come out of this show with some momentum.

 

Also, kudos for getting through 5 hours of wrestling in only 2 hours of podcast time

[Bigelow34]

Thanks Parv! I love Scott, but I do think he goes a bit too party line on non-WWE stuff. That is why I am there to call his ass out. I really think WCW could have survived this night if they followed up properly.

 

The Tony thing has grown in legend thanks to WWE, but I think it serves more as a symbol of their hubris and how out-of-touch they were by 1999. That shit worked when WWF was stale and played out and WCW was cool. By early 1999, people liked WWF and Mankind and everything going on, so trashing them like that didn't seem as witty or innovative anymore.

[JerryvonKramer]

The thing is though Justin, it's often forgotten just how much petty shit Vince did during that timeframe too. The Billionaire Ted skits? DX showing up at Nitro? All the cheap shots every week on RAW?

 

The main thing I don't like about the current WWE's mythmaking around this is that the WWE cheap shots are either ignored or seen as evidence of them being innovative and cool and the Tony line is repeated over and over again to show what an asshole Eric Bischoff was.

[Bigelow34]

Oh yeah, they aren't absolved...but I think most fans realized that it was nonsense. Plus Billionaire Ted was three years earlier and came off as really lame, which is why so many people bought into WCW's attacks...they seemed smarter and cooler.

 

By 1999, WWF was mostly focused on themselves...I just think the played out "they are taped, we are live" crap wasn't as effective because Raw was must watch at the time...nobody cared that it was taped.

[soup23]

This was a really fun show and thanks to Scott and Justin for having me on.

 

I still don't know how I feel about the shows overall.

 

I think I am against the norm from most in the opinion that

 

A. I probably like the attitude stuff a little less than most from around this time because I was still relatively young (age 11-15). Sable's handprints over her boobs were good in my eyes. Austin rebelling against the boss and stuff like the Terri miscarriage didn't resonate quite as much for me.

 

B. I was a really big WCW fanboy that stayed loyal almost to the bitter end. Hell I had a birthday party that revolved around Road Wild 1999. I honestly do think that either as a result of the 1/4/99 show or the subsequent nonsense a lot of people threw in the towel on WCW. Again, when they return to the dome on 7/5/99 it was still a good crowd but they had lost around 40% for 6 months earlier and the atmosphere was not nearly the same as it was for the 7/6/98 and 1/4/99 shows.

 

The Nitro was a lot better on rewatch than I had imagined going in. Most of the matches were short, but they packed a good amount of action into the time allotted. I was shocked at how good the Horace/Benoit match was for a 4 minute Nitro match. The third hour did drag and Tony's comments do come off as petty. I honestly think if you had watched the whole show it was even worse when Tony said that because the whole angle with him and Bischoff in the booth really made Tony look good, professional, and a babyface. Him saying that reversed all goodwill he had been building throughout the show.

 

The acting in the Goldberg/Liz stuff is not good but it isn't like Mideon is going to be winning an emmy for his work on Raw either.

 

I also think they shouldn't have announced the title rematch. That feels the most bait and switch about the whole thing. Even if they did announce the rematch ahead of time, I would have preferred Goldberg to get viciously attacked by a person and them taking him to the hospital and changing the main event right there to Hogan/Nash. The cloud hanging over the arena that Goldberg still may come back and challenge for the title hindered people as they left the building.

 

The last point is that the context of the shows live watching needs to be established. Raw went off the air before the fingerpoke went down. That’s a huge difference in that in one show we had a triumphant surprising victory that opened up a ton of new avenues and featured the biggest star fo the era in an iconic moment. Then you flip to Nitro and we feel like we are going back to 1996 with the same people as the principals and there top star being bitched out with no one else willing to help him out.

 

I have come to the conclusion that the fingerpoke didn't kill WCW but it sure as fuck didn't help them.

 

On a side note, when Justin was talking about the Foley win live I was thinking if I had live wrestling moments that matched that and came up with two contenders.

1. Goldberg winning the belt on 7/6/98 - I was hoarse for days

2. Taker kicking out of the tombstone at WM 27 - I thought the streak was over

 

This show also made me be nostalgic and realize that I have not seen a world title change hands since and I have went to 6 PPV's and probably 10 Raws since then.