PTB Episode 205: Manager List-A-Mania!

[Bigelow34]

In this new episode of the PTB Podcast, Scott & Justin bring back List-A-Mania to rank the greatest wrestling managers of the modern era. Join them in a classic PTB countdown and be sure to share your own list as well.

 

So fire up this action packed episode and join Scott & Justin for another edition of the PTB Podcast!

 

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[JerryvonKramer]

Good idea for a show this. I want to comment but without giving spoilers so I'm just going to do this.

 

General comments

 

- Laughed when Scott tried to do a radio recap and you massively torpeadoed him Justin.

 

- You two know more about the territories than I would have imagined.

 

- When you started talking about someone about to blow a whistle, I thought to myself "what? They're picking The Coach?!"

 

- Scott saying "Have you ever tried to watch a Crusher Blackwell match?" is just asking for trouble

 

- No argmument with the top 5, it almost picks itself. My order would be different though.

 

Oversights

 

- Three women who might count as managers, Miss Elizabeth (who I can see the argument for being a valet), Chyna (more of a bodyguard, I guess), and Alexandra York (Terri Runnels who really was a manager 90-2, and then she managed Goldust and The Radicalz). I think York would realistically rank above some of your early picks. Hell, I'd probably put her top 25.

 

- Frenchy Martin. Well I mean why not? If you've got some of those guys like The Genius in there, but he deserves a mention just for taking that Garvin stomp and selling it like he'd been electrocuted.

 

- Oliver Humperdink. I don't like him much, but seems like he would have been included if you'd remembered him.

 

- Devari. He was a guy who managed in the past decade.

 

Too High

 

Ted DiBiase - I think you hit the nail on the head when you said he overshadowed his charges, but it was more than that. The Million Dollar Man gimmick was only effective at getting Ted himself over, and as a manager he was booked in such a way where that's all that would happen -- it was basically a reverse rub. Rather than DiBiase helping them get heat, he was sucking whatever heat they might have had for himself. To make matters worse, he was injured so couldn't take any bumps. That meant you never got any payoff with him. I'd put him below some of the others you had early on.

 

Paul Bearer - might just be me, but I don't see him as a lock for top 10 at all. Not a big complaint from me, he's going to be there or there abouts, but a smidge high I think.

 

FAR Too High

 

Teddy Long - I don't get this one at all. If he should be anywhere it might be right around where you had DiBiase. I kinda feel that his importance is retroactively boosted by the long career he's continued to eek out on Smackdown. If he hadn't have had that run, would he really have been in your thinking that far up?

 

Harvey Wippleman - I know he's your friend, but c'mon dudes. Wippleman?! Can't think of any real reason for him to be that high.

 

Paul Jones "This is going to make Chad and Parv happy" -- are you fucking kidding me? We HATE Paul Jones. I, especially, despise him. We ragged on him for about 25 episodes straight, he just sucked. Crap on the mic. Didn't do a lot ringside. Bad matches when he had to have them. Crappy stable. This ridiculously high placement undermines the top 10 for me. Absolutely outrageous. This is a pre-emptive "FU" to Johnny Sorrow as well.

 

Paul Ellering - again, I don't get this AT ALL. What was he really bringing to the package? He might have done real-life managing, but really who cares? I can see an argument for him making top 20, but not as high as you guys have him.

 

Too Low

 

Lou Albano - instrumental in 84-5 and expansion. Big character on TNT. Always strongly featured. I can't remember exactly where you had Long, but I'd put the big fat sloppy pig above him.

 

Adnan - from what I've seen of AWA, he was pretty effective and important in the overall scheme of things. Not a major problem with the ranking, but maybe would have bumped him up a few places.

 

Slick - only on the basis that you've put Teddy Long that high. Seriously, what did Long have that Slick didn't? He had bigger time feuds, and his music was way better too. As you demonstrated at the end.

[soup23]

1. Bobby Hennan - Great in AWA and WWF. Doubt there will be any argument.

2. Jim Cornette - Great run with Midnights, some great stuff in Smokey Mountain vs. Bob Armstrong, and fun stuff early on in Memphis and in WWF with Yoko

3. Jimmy Hart - 1983 cuts off probably his best Memphis run but he was still really amazing and many times did the most with the least talent wise. I also really liked him in WWF and didn't find him terribly annoying until his 1994 Hulkster run

4. JJ Dillion - Integral to the Horseman and the glue that held them together. Kind of sad we really only have a 3.5 year run of him as a manager.

5. Paul E. Dangerously - Really underrated in SST unit and of course amazing in the Dangerous Alliance Run

6. Paul Bearer - Awesome with Eric Embry/Steve Austin in Texas and added a lot of depth to Taker character

7. Paul Ellering - Maybe longest running manager with one team and he really fit the mold both inside and outside the ring. I really like Ellering in AWA to

8. Harvey Wippleman - Best of lower tier Memphis managers and did well with a variety of less than exciting guys in the WWF. Two distinctive characters help him also

9. Sherri - Great women's manager that is able to generate fabulous heat. I am really coming around on her as the Macho Queen

10. General Adnan - Probably up there with Hennan in my favorite managers in the ring as he was great in some AWA cage matches and again generated massive heat in 1990-91 Slaughter run. Honestly, one of the better drawing managers of all time, I just haven’t seen the presence and interview chops from the footage available for him to compete with the upper tier.

11. Gary Hart - Creepy looking dude that worked well with Muta/Funk and had good charges in Texas

12. Bill Alphonso - I find him annoying but you can't deny how well he reacted and riled up the crowd when he was with Taz and then Sabu

13. Lou Albano - Big Name manager but in the 1983 onward, he felt more like a leech than a person that organically took a team to the top.

14. Teddy Long - Good manager especially the Doom stuff in late 1990 where he is chauffeur for the day and Doom is positioned as really important in the overall promotion

15. Paul Jones - Got a big run which places him this high for me but a manager I really don't like and think he was unworthy of as many chances as he got

16. Skandor Akbar- I go back and forth on Ak. He sometimes had some terrible talent in Devastation and again could mail it in, but when he was on he was great and he was a stalwart for Midsouth and Texas in the 80's.

17. Slick - My favorite midcard manager and he actually had a good group of talent that he helped with his gimmick. Below others for me based on his lack of big runs

18. Harley Race - Helped mold Luger into being a decent champion for a floundering promotion and I like his work with Vader also

19. Mr. Perfect - Brief run but added a lot to Flair which was tricky because it is not like Flair needed a talker to carry him

20. Mr. Fuji - Had plenty of chances but I am pretty indifferent to him and don't think he added much besides cane shots and salt between Demo, POP, and Yoko. Also not the smartest manager with his challenge of Hogan at WM 9

21. Vickie Guerrero - Had insane heat when she was with Edge but her character is a little too one note and now I find her mostly annoying.

22. Freddie Blassie - Really catching the tail end of his run with the 1983 deadline.

23. James Mitchell - Someone I may have way too low for some but I was never a fan at all and generally liked his workers better as solo than with him which is not a good sign.

24. Sunny - Did her best with the Donnas, Gunns, and Warriors but the tag division was not exactly a high priority when she was in the promotion. I didn't really like her endless catfights with Dawn Marie and Francine in ECW either. Brief run to.

25. Johnny Polo - Fun manager for a year run. Too brief to be much higher.

26. Johnny V - To me everything Johnnny V tried to do had people doing it better elsewhere. His commentary is horrendous to. I do give him props for being there from the beginning with the Dream Team

27. Genius - Not the best gimmick but he was pretty good with Perfect and then really good with the Beverly's.

28. Ted Dibiase - Not crazy about his work with the Steiners on in the NWO

29. Dutch Mantell - Had nothing to work with and depending on what they do with Swagger may just be entering his best run

30. Armando Estrada - Ok but really generic. I would only place him a step above someone like Divari

31. Sonny Onoo - Pretty good in 1995 Starrcade angle, didn't really add anything elsewhere.

32. DDP - Pretty annoying with Badd Company even though they were a pretty hot team in AWA. His stuff with the Studd isn't amazing either..

33. Chavo Classic - Not a big fan at all.

 

 

Here would be where I would rank the managers listed with Rob Parker below Albano and everyone else moving down a peg.

[JerryvonKramer]

Your 6-8 stretch is legit shocking to me Chad. Is there some cult of Wippleman I'm unaware of?

[soup23]

To me the managers list gets pretty thin once you reach outside the top 5 and many flaws creep in. Whippleman as Downtown Bruno is great. He had some of the worst talent of anyone on the list (Adam Bomb, Gaylord, Sid) and still had really good heat.

 

I may perfer some other USWA guys from time to time like Bowden and Richard Lee but Whippleman had a more sustained run.

 

I don't know why you are down on Pringle. He had two great characters and really helped guide, mentor, and "manage" some of the most influential wrestlers of all time.

 

I have liked Ellering a lot in AWA as more of a flamboyant type character and he was an established part of the Road Warriors team and had to help babysit them for almost a decade.

[JerryvonKramer]

When you look beyond the top 5, I think you are right that things seem to get thin awfully fast.

 

Honestly, I'd probably put Col. Parker up there and am willing to give Gary Hart the benefit of the doubt based on what people tell me about his World Class stuff. But after that, even I might be looking at Pringle. I am not a big fan of the Paul Bearer character, but Pringle was definitely a talent.

 

Looking down the list though, it does feel like slim pickings for 6-10. I feel like Pringle should be floating around 11th sort of spot, but there really isn't anyone else you can put in there.

 

On another note, I still can't see any serious argument for putting Long above Slick. Why? Was Long a better promo than Slick? Did he have more important feuds? Who had the better music? I think Long is coasting purely on the strength of the badassery of Doom. I'd take the Twin Towers over The Skyscrapers any day of the week.

[soup23]

I would say Doom from mid 90 to the split was positioned as more important as anybody Slick had except the early Twin Towers stuff. The tag division revolving around Doom was the 2nd most important thing going on in WCW for an 8 month period.

 

He also has longevity.

 

 

I wont be able to judge Parker until I see the Continental stuff in full but he feels like a bonafide contender up there with Pringle once I watch everything.

 

I may have given Sherri a bad break as she enhanced a lot of matches but she is not that good a promo.

[Bigelow34]

Good debate and fair criticism. I agree that Teddy was a bit too high and I think you can tell on the show by my lack of defense or much justification. I was definitely trying to come up with good reasons while we were talking.

 

Agreed with Chad on Bruno...he did much more than just the Harvey stuff. And even as Harvey he did a great job with some really terrible acts. Longevity also plays a role there.

 

I actually agree on Ellering, but that is a Scott Special, so take that up with him.

 

The Paul Jones comment was reference to his place in your commercial that we always play and a sarcastic comment to your hatred of him!

 

Hump was a glaring oversight...should have been there.

 

FWIW, my personal Top 5 would have been:

 

1) Bobby Heenan

2) Jim Cornette

3) Paul E.

4) Jimmy Hart

5) JJ Dillon

 

And fuck Frenchy Martin.