Voices of Wrestling - Observer HOF w/ mookieghana

[FedEx227]

We are back with a monster podcast talking all things Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame with wrestling statistician Chris “mookieghana” Harrington. Joe and Chris are both first-time voters so we discuss how they received votes, their voting process and, of course, who they voted for and why. We also discuss the biggest snubs of the year and preview next year’s class.

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2013/11/1...ris-harrington/

[soup23]

Really dug this podcast. Some running thoughts.

 

First off, I commend both you Joe and Chris from abstaining from categories. I think there is a big disconnect from having a working knowledge on some categories and being educated enough to vote for them.

 

As hashed out in the mega HOF thread, I don't think Colon would have much of a chance in the North American category. I would be shocked if he doesn't get in next year though.

 

The Brock stuff to me is interesting in that I would not vote for him but am interested for some of the metrics of where Mookie is getting his drawing power. I would certainly not give Lesnar hardly any credit for WM 29 and as discussed in the podcast, the SummerSlam 2013 number was pretty disappointing. This leaves Extreme Rules 2012, 2013, and SummerSlam 2012. I think the most telling number of that is SummerSlam 2012 and will give credit that the show drew well (this still shocks me personally since I hated the build). Extreme Rules 2012 being up 35,000 buys from the year before using and average of $30 a buy is over a million dollars added, but then that same logic would have to be used for CM Punk moving the needle even more for MITB 2011. I also don't deny that his increased notoriety has to do with MMA but if he was a sports star, philanthropist, or whatever, I don't see why that should be in a wrestling HOF discussion. The main issue I have with him is again the briefness of this run. If Lesnar is able to have 5-6 more years of this success in a limited role, I would consider him but we are talking about 5 matches in which 2 out of the 5, Lesnar had either none or maybe even a slight adverse effect (your mileage may vary on the 2013 SummerSlam number). For such a brief run, it would be interesting to compare that to other draws for short period (Goldberg in 2003, Goldberg singles in late 1998-early 1999) to see how effective this is. To me, being the 3rd or 4th best draw in the current company is not HOF caliber at this moment.

 

The RNR stuff is baffling to me because again of all the lists from voters I have seen, they have been on almost all of them. The story about Cabana I buy and that opens up another whole can of worms on the type of HOF voter.

 

I agree with the Edge analysis Joe gave and will be interested to see if Batista finds his way back on the ballot. I see him as a low level candidate but do think he has more merits than others (owen, Snuka).

 

I still don't quite understand why Tanahashi is getting all the credit for the ippv draws this year when Tanahashi has been in a supporting role for the uptick. He may be the biggest "star" but this feels like crediting any big buyrate in 2008 to Cena, I just don't understand that argument and can't see what Okada can do to overtake that. Tanahashi putting someone over doesn't to be transfer almost all the praise to him. Did Hart given the rub to Austin a nice critical moment, yes. Do I think Austin wouldn't had been a huge star without that? I am doubtful and there frankly isn't much from a substantive standpoint you can do to look at it. The statement at the end about Tanahashi getting in so soon makes sense and I think if you are less high on him as a worker, its legitimate to hold off on him.

 

Sasaki is the most neutral candidate to me on the entire ballot. I wouldn't probably vote on him since I don't feel passionate either way but I have no problems with him going in.

 

I agree with Joe talking about Ventura completely. The overall non wrestler category seems filled with guys that are at the least good candidates and it is just picking your favorite five.

[FedEx227]

Thanks for the kind words man.

 

I'll address Tanahashi first and mentioned that while he has been supporting over the last few months, the first year or so of iPPVs real stride he was on top. There were definite questions if Okada could handle the load if given the ball, obviously he has and that's great... but again, we can't ignore that the first year or so of NJPW iPPVs (still super successful) were headed up by Tanahashi.

[W2BTD]

Off the top of my head, and i'll look it up later, Tanahashi main evented every PPV until after he lost the title for good at Invasion Attack in April, and he main evented several after that.

 

I don't like the Hart/Austin analogy for Tahanashi/Okada. Austin was going to happen eventually anyway. Not that Hart didn't have a significant impact in getting him over, but it was going to happen. I'm not sure Okada happens without Tanahashi. The cream will generally rise, so maybe i'm wrong. Okada definitely wouldn't have happened as fast. He was a complete non entity coming out of WrestleKingdom 6. It would be like Namajague or Watanabe coming back this January, working a really shitty 5 minute undercard match at WrestleKingdom and not being over at all, and then being one of the biggest stars in the world a few months later. Even those comparisons aren't totally fair, because those guys are much better prospects than Okada was at the time.

 

Okada is crazy talented, and good on Gedo & Jado for seeing it when literally nobody else did, and may have broken through eventually, but this string of Tanahashi matches where Tanahashi made him convincingly look like an equal, and the fact that the matches are all considered modern classics, is absolutely a major reason why Okada is now a legit star & draw himself. Remember, there was still a ton of concern after Invasion Attack as to whether he could carry shows. That's only a few months ago. Tanahashi was clearly the top dog for the majority of this hot run, and he's still probably a few inches ahead of Okada in that regard. Tanahashi may end up main eventing WK8 despite not being champion.