2001 Bockwinkel Interview I snagged from Wayback Machine

[Matt D]

There's some really interesting stuff in here (like him owning 11% of Houston at one point), and i came across the link off of a classics post and then used the wayback machine and there was only one hit, so I wanted to pull it back out here so it's preserved.

 

Interview with former AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel

July 11, 2001

By Denny Burkholder

WrestleLine Staff Writer

Back when the WWF, NWA, and AWA were the Big Three, there were a handful of world champions that dominated the wrestling world for over a decade. Bruno Sammartino and Bob Backlund in the WWF. The Funk brothers and Harley Race in the NWA. And Nick Bockwinkel and Verne Gagne in the AWA. Bockwinkel in particular is regarded as one of the more technically gifted world champions in recent decades, and was one of the most well-traveled when it came to defending his gold in different territories.

I spoke with Nick Bockwinkel last week via telephone from the Las Vegas Wrestling Academy. Here is that conversation:

DENNY BURKHOLDER: I interviewed Terry Funk about a year ago, and he was telling me about the experience of having a legendary father in wrestling.

NICK BOCKWINKEL: I’ll tell you a terrific story before the evening’s over about how I got Terry in Japan. A nice rib. Terry loved to rib, loved to pull pranks. His dad loved to do that. Terry tried to pick up on it. Dory Funk [Jr.] didn’t do it as much as Terry did. There was something he was doing to me for a set-up. Four-week tour, but I finally got him. You’ll enjoy hearing it.

DB: I was wondering if you could elaborate about Warren Bockwinkel [Nick’s father, also a pro wrestler].

NB: My dad would have been 10 years younger than Dory Funk Sr. I’m going on 67 right now. And Terry, what the hell he’s doing still wrestling, God only knows, that’s all I can say. God bless ya, Terry! You’re insane, but you were insane all along, so what difference does it make?

DB: You wrestled in high school?

NB: I wrestled in high school, and intended to wrestle in college. I actually got a scholarship, football and wrestling, to the University of Oklahoma, which was at that time both number one in football back in 53 and 54, and also was one of the top wrestling colleges. But I never got the opportunity to wrestle, because in the first year, late in the fall – my freshman year – I blew out a knee. Then in spring practice I blew out another knee. Then the cruel world of college football, they said “Oh, even though we said you would get your scholarship for four years if you got injured, that’s not true.” The excuse they gave me was that I had hurt myself in high school and I never told them. So I never got the opportunity to wrestle in college. But I went home from college and my dad says, “Well, you know, we’ll start training you and start wrestling preliminaries here in Southern California. We’ll get you started wrestling preliminaries, and you can work your way through college.”

DB: When was your first match?

NB: My first rookie match was in a place called Valley Garden Arena in Sun Valley in California, pretty close to the San Fernando Valley. That would have been in 1955. It started there, and I wrestled in and around California. Back in those days, you had territories, and the Los Angeles territory was one of the premier territories to work. The reasons for it were your distances to travel to wrestle each night. On Monday nights you went to the Hollywood Legion. Tuesday night was the longest trip of 140 miles to San Diego. Wednesday night was the Los Angeles Olympic Auditorium in downtown LA. Thursday night was, for me, 95 miles up to Bakersfield. Friday night was the Santa Monica Arena. Saturday night was 75 miles out to San Bernadino. And then on Sundays they even had workouts at Santa Monica Arena. So as far as traveling went, you had one of the shortest traveling territories - as far as trips went – anyplace in the country. Everybody really wanted to work there, so I was very fortunate to start there. I was just a preliminary guy going to UCLA. It was very, very nice.

DB: I know Ray Stevens had a lot of popularity in California.

NB: Ray Stevens’ popularity was in San Francisco. But he did work in Los Angeles even before I did. Ray was two years younger, but Ray started when he was about 15 years old. He was a friend from 1960 – ’59, I first met Ray – and then over the years of course, when we teamed up in the AWA, which was just dynamic. We were very much a natural team. When Wally Karbo and Verne Gagne said “We want to team the two of you up,” they said, “Any problems with you?” And I said, “No, not at all.” He was great. Through the 60s, 70s and 80s, Ray was, as far as I was concerned, the most premier wrestling talent in the profession. He was, a far as I’m concerned, even better than me. Now a lot of people get perplexed by that because I was the individual AWA Champion four times, let along tag team champion three times with him. And if he was better than me, why wasn’t he world champion? It’s because Ray was the biggest kid in the world. He loved to play with toys. He accomplished what he did, so to speak, running at 53 throttle. I concentrated very hard, and in my concentration I guess I made up enough of the difference that I achieved the individual championship.

DB: Well you had a lot of success with Ray Stevens as a tag team partner. You took on the Crusher & Dick the Bruiser. Who were some of your favorite opponents?

NB: Oh, The Crusher & Dick the Bruiser, Verne Gagne, Billy Robinson, you just name it. There were some great teams. There were the high flyers, [Jim] Brunzell and [Greg] Gagne. There was Tito Santana. Just so many dynamically good wrestlers that we had the opportunity to wrestle. At one time, the AWA had just such an abundance of premier talent. It was hard to believe that one organization had that much talent. And that’s why I think a lot of people really felt bad when the AWA went by the wayside. Simply because they had even better talent than the WWF ever had.

DB: What’s interesting to me is that when I get feedback regarding Nick Bockwinkel, people tend to talk more about your team with Ray Stevens and your feud with the Crusher and the Bruiser than they do about your matches with Verne Gagne. I always found that interesting.

NB: Well, because first of all, usually, tag matches are far more exciting than individual matches. And because Stevens and I were such a terrific team, and we understood the nature of the beast as much as we did, we naturally had some dynamically exciting tag matches. The Crusher and The Bruiser were two of the favorites. They were the grunt and groan, beer drinking, cigar smoking, everyday, Polish, hard working, blue collar stiff. And they had a tremendous following. The Bruiser was just that. He was not smooth. He was not articulate. But yet, as a talent in the ring, he was absolutely superb. The Crusher wasn’t as good as The Bruiser, but they made a tremendous team. Consequently, the matches they had with Stevens and myself were just dynamic. We just tore the houses down. That’s what was so nice through that whole era. We had so many guys that we wrestled. Ray and I were tag team partners for only about a five-year period. Maybe not even that long. The fact that we established such a tremendous reputation speaks for the fact of how good the team was.

DB: I have to ask you the prerequisite Verne Gagne question. Your careers are joined at the hip, so to speak.

NB: Yes.

DB: When was the first time you met Verne Gagne, and what was the first impression you got?

NB: Well the first time I met Verne Gagne I was 16 years old. It was up in Buffalo, New York. I was in high school, and my dad had Verne over on a Sunday afternoon for dinner, because Verne was coming through that territory, which was the Toronto wrestling territory. Just across the river from the Toronto wrestling territory was the Buffalo, New York wrestling territory. Verne was making a swing through. He was a new, young star popular off of TV. We’re talking about 1951 or 52. So that was the first time I met Verne. By the time I went to wrestle in the AWA, I was a veteran. One of the things about the second generation - and Dory will tell you this, and Terry will tell you this – you have an extra bit of moxie. You understand the nature of the beast. When I say the nature of the beast, by that I mean the personalities. The egos. The entire structure of the profession. How people think; how they feel – whether it’s the promoter, the matchmaker, the other wrestlers, the seconds in the arena. Whoever it might be. And to have all that mentally out of the way I think is a testament to why Dory Jr. was as successful as he was, and Terry Funk was as successful as he was, and I was as successful as I was. That was because we had so much of the inbred, handed-down natural education and knowledge. When you’re 14 years old and sitting in a dressing room, and you’re hearing ALL the bullshit going on, and you’re hearing all the intelligent conversation going on, and you’re hearing all of the assholes that are exploiting about themselves, and who’s humble and who’s not, who’s real and who isn’t. By the time you wind up taking in a few of those dressing rooms, it’s amazing how much insight you have into the profession before you ever put the boots on and get ready to go in the ring. See, it takes other guys 5, 6 years after they start just to see everything you’ve already seen.

DB: Terry actually told me that he was three years ahead of everybody else before he wrestled his first match.

NB: And to a great extent, he’s correct, because of the grasp you have. And for him, even more so, because he already got a chance to watch his brother. So Terry not only got a chance to watch his father – and his father was not only a wrestler, his father was also a promoter, so he’s seeing things from the wrestling end, he’s seeing things from the promotional end – he’s seeing his brother as his brother starts, and all the problems that his brother is having. So there’s no question that when Terry finally put the boots on to go into the ring, he was as he said, four or five years ahead of anybody else who was starting at the same time.

DB: Now as far as the AWA World Title goes, it was pretty much you and Verne in the 70s. Everybody else was pretty much a challenger for the whole decade.

NB: Pretty much so, yeah. Verne was the AWA at that time.

DB: Did you ever catch criticism for being a two-man show from other promoters or wrestlers?

NB: No, not really, because most of the other promoters knew and understood the nature of the beast. They knew that, of course, a lot of the control was in Verne’s hands. If anything they were very sympathetic to me, and realized that as far as they were concerned, maybe Verne’s ego was a little large and consequently had to be satisfied a lot more than others. I did have a couple of strong offers to move over to the NWA, with a pretty good impression that I would have a nice, good chance at becoming the NWA Champion. But I was very comfortable with where I was. I saw no reason to make the move.

DB: I know you were very well traveled when you were the AWA World Champion. I’ve seen matches from the past of you versus Jerry Lawler, matches from Texas…

NB: Sure.

DB: In fact, didn’t you own 11 percent of Houston [wrestling territory] at one point?

NB: That is correct. [Promoter] Paul Boesch was kind of like an uncle to me. I’ve got a picture with me, Paul Boesch and my dad in Long Beach, New York, in the summertime of 1938 or 39, when I was about four or five years old. So I’d known Paul all those years. The other thing, too, is that Paul respected me because of my beliefs and my attitude about the business. Him and my dad were very good friends. And Paul, at that time, felt that maybe the business was going to continue going the way it was back then, where you had all the regional promoters. And so he had asked if I was interested in purchasing into Houston, because he knew that at some point, he was gonna have to turn it over to somebody. He had a nephew by the name of Peter Birkholz, and so it was all intended that myself and Peter Birkholz would wind up owning the town eventually. So I had 11 percent, and at about the same time – this would have been in the late 70s, early 80s – Vince [McMahon] was making his move, so to speak. Things changed, and I sold my 11 percent back to Peter Birkholz.

DB: Now this was while you were AWA Champion, right?

NB: This was while I was AWA Champion. Nobody knew this. When I say nobody knew it, Peter Birkholz knew it, and Paul Boesch knew it. No one else knew it, and as far as I was concerned, nobody else was going to know it.

DB: Do you think Verne would have been upset?

NB: Well, ultimately, it was my intent – at that time, Paul Boesch had brought me into Houston, and Joe Blanchard brought me into San Antonio. So all of that Southern Texas country, which had always been strong NWA, was now both NWA and AWA, because I had wrestled there many, many times in both the San Antonio area and the Houston area. So that was a big feather in the AWA’s cap, and in Verne’s cap. At the time I did not have a big head about it, and I don’t have a big head about it now. But I realize now I must have been doing one hell of a job, because they don’t bother to bring in a competing champion unless that champion has something to offer their towns. Which meant that even though Terry Funk and Harley Race were great champions, they also felt that I was. I look back now and I realized what a standard that I had set. I’m more proud of it now than at the time, because at the time I was too busy doing it!

DB: Sure.

NB: And the fact that Memphis was an NWA country, and here I went and wrestled there ALL the time as the AWA Champion. I also wrestled in the Carolinas, and Georgia. That was pretty much unheard of. I was the first person to establish that factor. And yet the NWA never wrestled in the AWA country, and that was because I don’t think Verne Gagne wanted anybody to really see anybody else. But the fact that these other promoters felt that way about me, needless to say I look back now and I consider that a tremendous compliment. I was happy to be able to do it.

DB: Along the lines of traveling to different territories, you wrestled and AWA vs. WWF title-for-title match against Bob Backlund that went to a one-hour draw.

NB: Yes, that was in Toronto, Canada. There’s another one that you might say is a feather in our cap. Everybody wound up hating Vince because he had invaded all the other territories, and yet the AWA was kind of slowly in the process of sort of doing the same thing. And of course, Gagne never saw himself as the person that he felt Vince McMahon was. But you gotta figure that the AWA was in Salt Lake City, Denver, Phoenix, Tuscon, San Francisco, and I had gone and wrestled in all these other places as the AWA Champion so that it was established in Texas and all these other areas. So I wrestled Bob Backlund, it was AWA vs. WWF in Toronto, Canada. And the match wound up being an hour draw.

DB: Now today, the WWF is promoting WWF vs. WCW, and it’s kind of lost its luster, because the McMahons own it all.

NB: True.

DB: Did you ever, in your wildest dreams, see this day coming?

NB: Well, you know, ironically, even though I kind of thought Terry Funk was always just raising hell and being a character, he was very, very profound in the sense that back in the very early 70s I remember on one of our trips to Japan, he said, “You know, in 20, 25 years, there’ll only be one or two territories in the country. It’ll all just be one or two offices.” And he was right. That is exactly what has happened. It’s sad… I feel bad that the old territorial system didn’t survive because it really added a lot of different flavor. It’s kind of like going to a place that’s got 35 different restaurants. Now all of a sudden, we’ve only got one restaurant to go to. Maybe the food’s still good, but dammit to hell, we all did enjoy the choice of having those 35 restaurants.

DB: Do you think that with the flood of good workers who are shut out of the WWF and WCW going to the indies, that the territorial system has a chance of rising again?

NB: I hear that quite a bit. I don’t know if it ever can. But it all depends. There’s so many people that say, “Hey, it’s gonna swing back around.” And it very well could. So you just don’t know. I mean, like I mentioned to you earlier, I’m talking to you from the Las Vegas Wrestling Academy, which was just opened up by a fellow by the name of Gary Mills. Gary has just opened this up, and all those pounding noises that you heard a little bit earlier were guys in the other part of this gym pounding their bodies on the mat, and still want to do it. You have so many bits of talent that are not being utilized that are great talents. Even in this school here, they’ve got half a dozen guys that are terrific. Jimmy Snuka’s son, and another four or five guys here that are, to me, already very good professionals. So I would like to see the territorial thing come back into fashion again as long as it could be profitable for the boys and whoever was promoting it.

DB: Tell me a little bit more about the Las Vegas Wrestling Academy.

NB: Well, Gary Mills is a local fellow. His wrestling name is Rush. He’s about 6-foot-4, 270 pounds. He learned how to wrestle here two or three years back. And Scott Casey, and another gentleman by the name of Mike Williams, both wrestlers of pretty good reputation, they were friends of his. They got him started. And then he opened up this academy just a couple of months ago. It has been going fairly well. Like he said, if Dory Funk can get people to come to Ocala, Florida for 11 days or two weeks, he says, I think we should be able to get a few people who would want to come to Las Vegas. It’s within walking distance of one of the big hotels, so it’s kind of close. He asked me to be affiliated with it. He respected my talents and my knowledge. So I said to him, “Well, I’m not physically in any position to get back in the ring and go bouncing around.” But I can really fine-tune those engines. So it’s gonna be my pleasure. And I come down, and Scott Casey will come down. They usually train on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Friday nights they have some matches. And just this past weekend, because Scott Casey was one of the guys who was very instrumental in getting Booker T started in the profession, he had asked Booker T to come down this past weekend, which he did, and put on a demonstration for some of the students. We had a nice evening, took a bunch of pictures with Booker T. Then he had to get back for Monday because he is involved in the WWF-WCW scenario.

DB: Right, he was actually the main event that Monday night. So it looks like you’re pretty well stocked for star power there at the Academy.

NB: Well yeah, we really do. We’ve got some good names. Scott Casey is somebody that didn’t necessarily reach – there’s so many in the profession that only a few are fortunate and lucky enough to wind up right at the top. But there are tons of guys that are pushing on that category who at any given moment could burst into that. And Scott Casey was one of them, and he’s a terrific talent and a very nice person. Mike Williams, he did a lot of wrestling down in the south, in Alabama, New Orleans, for [promoter Bill] Watts at that time. Mike is also an excellent performer. So I think that between the three of us, we’ll keep these guys with their heads screwed on straight, I hope.

They try to be pretty inclusive, and if you want to be a referee, if you want to be a valet, you want to be a wrestler, you want to be an announcer, they’ll run you through the whole thing. It’s turning out the be real good, and I’m enjoying it. It’s fun to be able to give some of that knowledge that I’ve had for all these years, and pass it on to some younger bucks. [NOTE: If you'd like to inquire about joining the Las Vegas Wrestling Academy, call (702) 221-7874.]

DB: Let me ask you about Hulk Hogan. I know you worked with Hulk Hogan when he was really young in the AWA.

NB: Sure.

DB: What was your first impression of him?

NB: Well the first time I ever had a chance to see him is right after he started. He was down in Memphis. This was before he went to New York the first time. Jerry Jarrett was kind of touting this guy, that he had some real good talent and charisma. Needless to say, he did, and when I saw him I thought he did, too. Then of course, when the movie came out that he was in with Sylvester Stallone [Rocky III], about that time, he came to the AWA. And then he blossomed the way he did. Wrestlers are a strange creature. They’re kind of like plants or vegetables that you put in a garden. Some of them just take more nourishing, more vitamins, more minerals. Then all of a sudden, they do blossom. Then some, they just come along and they’re growing, but they’re not blossoming. And then all of a sudden, six months or a year or two years later, they bloom. They do blossom into a beautiful flower. Hogan, in a sense, was one of those when he was down in Tennessee. You could see potential, but you weren’t really sure if it was just going to stay at that level or what. And then of course, he just turned into the talent that he did. And the way I’ve always judged, for instance, if I was wrestling somebody I would always ask the seconds, who go into either dressing room. I would say, “I want to know, is my opponent – is The Crusher, or is Hulk Hogan – is he all warmed up? Is he nice and sweaty, and ready to go?” The reason why I ask that is because that told me what level of professionalism that person had. Because when you step into the ring, you should be idling at about 4000 RPM. If you’re not idling at 4000 RPM, you’re not ready. And you have an obligation to those people who filled that arena and paid their money to give them the performance they deserve. So I always wanted to know, because I always went into the ring idling at 4000 RPM. And I wanted to make sure that my opponent was likewise. If he wasn’t, that actually would piss me off. That didn’t sit well with me at all.

DB: People’s perception of Hulk Hogan and their perception of you as former world champions are in stark contrast. They see you as the superior mat technician, which you were, and they see Hogan as more of a performer without a whole lot of wrestling background. Did you prefer one type of opponent over the other, or did it not matter?

NB: Well, basically, I mean God bless it all, it was a business and there are all the different elements that make up so many of the different personalities that you get in that business. There’s a guy that wrote in a magazine two years back, and he rated the top 20 wrestlers in this last century. I think I was number eight. Of the 20, I would say there were probably two or three names that I would have stuck before me, and there were three or four names that I would have stuck after me. And that’s only because that was a judgment call on the [part of the] guy that wrote the article. My judgment would be a little bit different for different reasons. Yes, I was more of a technical wrestler, and in that article he said, “He didn’t do anything out of the ordinary. He was just very good at wrestling.” And I took that as a tremendous compliment, because I didn’t have the blonde hair, the music and the big muscles. I didn’t have a fantastic body. I only weighed 240 pounds. So to have accomplished what I did, looking back on it now, I’m more proud of what I did then than I was at the time I was doing it. Only because I realize now - being able to step back and see the whole picture – I realize now, you know, that I DID do a hell of a job.

How much more time we got? I want to tell that little story about Terry Funk.

DB: You can tell it right now, if you want.

NB: Well Terry Funk and I were in Japan. We were there for four weeks. He is CONSTANTLY on my case. “Bockwinkel! When you gonna get drunk with me? G*d damn, I mean, Jesus, I mean, what are ya? Did your wife tell you you couldn’t drink while you were on this trip? What the hell’s your story?” You know? So he’s just RAGGING on my ass all the time. And I drink beer, and I’ve had a few GREAT hangovers in my life. But basically speaking, especially in Japan, it was easy to drink beer because you’d get through wrestling and you’d have to get on the bus. Maybe it was hot, you know, and I’d down maybe a half a dozen. But I wouldn’t completely annihilate myself, which Terry could do easier than I could. So he says, “G*d damn, Bockwinkel, you’re being a party-pooper! When the hell you gonna have a few beers with the boys? Why are you… what the hell. Your mom won’t get mad at you, don’t worry. I’ll tell her you were a good boy!” Just ragging on me something fierce. So finally, it’s the last night of the tour. [shohei “Giant”] Baba and the TV people decide they’re going to take out the American boys. So we got out, we have the steaks, and after we have this big steak dinner, we go to this very nice club. We’re sitting there, and they’ve got these little round cocktail tables that are only about 20 inches in diameter. All the tables are real close. So Terry’s sitting across from me in this big booth. There’s about four guys one way, four the other. It’s like we’re two lines of about ten. So I said, “Terry – OK. You’ve been on my ass about getting drunk all the whole trip.” And he’s been ribbing me in front of all the TV executives, and all the people from the office, you know. So I said, “OK, we’re going to get drunk tonight!” “Well, g*d damn, Bockwinkel, it’s about time! Gee whiz, I mean you sure made us all wait long enough!” And I said, “OK, so let me ask you, Terry – you want to do hot sake? Or Jack Daniels on the rocks? What do you want, Russian vodka straight up?” You know, he’s looking at me, because I’m calling some pretty heavy stuff.

DB: Yeah.

NB: So he said, “Well, g*d damn, Bockwinkel, whatever you want, I don’t give a damn!” I said, “Well, you want me to get drunk, don’t you?” “Well, yeah! We want to see you drunk!” I said, “OK, we can do that. I’m gonna be good enough to do that.” So I pull my chair up real close to him, and he’s sitting right across from me. And I push this little table to one side. Now my knee has gone in between his legs, and his knee is in between my legs. Our knees are touching each other’s balls. [laughs] We’re sitting that close. My face is only about six, seven inches away from Terry. Everybody’s kind of looking. They’re going, “Well what the hell is going on here?” You know most of these guys, and Baba was always somebody who just kind of sat back, didn’t make too many waves. Wasn’t too expressive. Didn’t talk too much. He was just kind of sitting back, and had a little smile on his face all the time. So Terry says, “Bockwinkel, I said I wanted to see you get drunk, I didn’t say I wanted you to sit on my lap!” I said, “No Terry, you don’t understand. You want me to get drunk. And I’m gonna do that. You’re hoping that I will get silly, make an ass of myself and everybody will laugh at me. And that’s OK, I understand. I can be laughed at. But if I’M going to allow MYSELF to be laughed at, then YOU get to be laughed at, too! OK?” “Well, damn, Bockwinkel, what’s that mean?” I said, “Well what that means, Terry, is let’s say we decide on hot sake. I am sure that about the third hot sake that gets guzzled down – for SURE, by the time I take the FOURTH hot sake…” and we’d been out to this big steak dinner before this – I said, “You remember that big steak dinner we just all had?” He says, “Yeah?” I says, “Well mine’s gonna come RIGHT BACK UP. And when it comes right back up, you want everybody to laugh at me, because I’m gonna get drunk. They’re gonna get to laugh at me getting drunk all over YOU! And then they’ll REALLY have a good laugh, won’t they, Terry?” And he’s looking at me, and he’s going “Oh, Bockwinkel, you’re such a wise-ass. Oh, sure, sure, you really think you’re cute Bockwinkel.” And he just backed off so fast. He just changed the whole subject. [laughs] And it’s kind of hard to get Terry, because Terry is one of those people where you have a tough time doing things to him.

DB: We saw you in the late 90s in WCW in a commissioner role. Is there any chance that, if it were to come up, you would accept a role similar to that in the future?

NB: Oh yeah, there’s no question about it. I mean, I love the business. And people have said to me “Nick, could you still be in the business if you wanted to?” Yes, I could. Vince has offered me a position a couple of times. I worked for him for about a year and a half, and then he had some changes. I think there’s no question that if I really wanted to work within the profession, that I could. The only thing is I don’t have the desire to travel that much. I’ve got a lovely wife who I’m having enough of a struggle meeting on the golf course as it is right now. So I’ve got my toughest opponent right here at home. I’m still in the life insurance and investment business, and I still have what we call your book of clients that you have to take care of, and make sure everything’s going correctly. I’ve done that now for going on 12 years. But the commissioner thing was great before. It was usually a couple of weekends out of each month. I had to fly to Atlanta or wherever the WCW people wanted me to go. I really enjoyed that when I was doing it, yes.

DB: If you could go back in time, is there any one thing, any one moment, any one match that you would change from your career?

NB: Any that I would change? I’m not so sure I would change. I think probably one of my greatest accomplishments that very few people would know about was in Houston, Texas. Paul Boesch ultimately got wrestling – which was never allowed to be on Sundays – he got the state law changed, and wrestling was allowed on Sundays. He went into the big arena where the basketball team down there plays. It was a Sunday afternoon card. And it was the first time ever that all three champions – WWF, AWA and NWA – were on the card. It was Bruno Sammartino, Harley Race and myself. I wrestled Jose Lothario in a 20-minute draw. As I came out of the ring, Paul Boesch came to me and he says “Nick, Harley still isn’t here. We promised a championship match, which was gonna be the NWA match. If we have to, can we have an AWA championship match?” And my opponent would have been Terry Funk, because Terry Funk had lost the match to Harley and he hurt his knee, and then he was out for about six months. So this was his first return engagement for the NWA title after he lost it to Harley Race. [Paul] said, “Can you call?” So I called Stanley Blackburn, and I called Wally Karbo to see if there was any problem. They said no. So I wrestled Terry Funk, and t hat night Sylvester Stallone had come to the matches because they were getting ready to do the wrestling movie…

DB: Paradise Alley.

NB: Yeah, they were just getting ready to do it. So Sylvester was sitting at ringside with Paul Boesch doing the play-by-play, doing the color. Then I wrestled Terry Funk for one hour. Now I want you to know that when I wrestled Jose Lothario for 20 minutes, I set my timer for 20 minutes. I knew that everybody was going to be watching the AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel, the WWF Champion Bruno Sammartino, and the NWA Champion Harley Race. I knew there was going to be – from the magazines and everybody else – there was going to be the big comparison. And so I wrestled, I went back in and blew my wad, so to speak, with Jose Lothario, and mustered it up from somewhere and wrestled Terry for one hour. And when I went back to my hotel, I had a suit on. When I came in, I sat down in a big easy chair. I called my wife, which I used to do every time when I was on the road after wrestling, and I woke up about 6 o’clock in the morning sitting in that chair. I was never so whipped, so exhausted in my entire life. It took me about three days to absolutely recover from the whole thing. But at the same time, I think it was probably one of my most proud days to have been able to do it. And Harley, it was an honest mistake and the booking NWA people did not tell him this was an afternoon show. So I come out of the ring about 7:30, and Harley had just walked in about a half an hour before. And all I said to Harley was, “Thanks for the payday.” [laughs] And you know, at that time, I’d already had 11 percent of Houston, which nobody knew. None of the wrestlers knew. And there was no need for anybody to know. There was going to be a time eventually where I would have made people aware.

DB: Now do you keep in touch with any of these people, like Verne, or Bobby Heenan?

NB: I do and I don’t. I see Ken Patera, I see Jim Brunzell. You know, and I see Verne Gagne and Greg Gagne, only because I will go and make appearances back in the AWA parts of the country. Then of course I was just down in Florida, for Sgt. Slaughter’s golf tournament, and had an opportunity to see some of the WWF boys. Sarge and I are old friends. So I don’t get the opportunity, but then of course I’m one of the people on the board of the Cauliflower Alley Club, headquartered here in Vegas. Once a year we have our convention. So at that time, I get to see a LOT of the guys, which is really terrific. I occasionally will talk to “Sir Robert,” and I talked to Gene Okerlund just this morning about something. It was good talking to Gene, because Gene and I are good friends from a long time ago. Then I run into Verne and Greg every now and then at charity golf tournaments. I’ll be going back to Minnesota the first weekend in August, and I will see Curt Hennig, “The Axe” Larry Hennig, Ken Patera, Jim Brunzell, who else – possibly Verne and Greg. And they will be playing in a charity golf tournament.

DB: I know you got a chance to catch up with Curt at Sarge’s tournament, and it was kind of neat to see, because his career kind of took off right when yours was in its final moments.

NB: It’s the only thing I feel so bad about, with the fact that there’s only one organization. There is, out there, I would say probably two to three dozen top pieces of talent. And the thing is, when you’ve only got one wrestling organization, it’s hard for them to feature everybody. It’s just impossible for them to do it. And to think that somebody’s not featuring somebody as good as Curt Hennig is absolutely a sin. That is such a heartbreaker. And I saw Curt, but I guess he’s getting quite a bit of bookings on independent shots all over the country. So like you said earlier, there’s enough to keep a lot of those guys busy. But is there enough to create another organization? That I’m not really sure of.

DB: Is there anybody that you never wrestled that you would have liked to have had a chance to wrestle?

NB: Oh, I wrestled Dory Funk, I wrestled Terry Funk. Wrestled Backlund. Wrestled Ric Flair, actually – again, another time that the NWA Champion wrestled the AWA Champion, in Winnipeg, Canada. It was the only time, and that match wound up being a draw as well. I’m sure there would have been a lot that I would have loved to have stepped into the ring with, and put my skill and ability up against theirs. But it didn’t come to pass. I don’t feel bad about it. It’s just too bad it didn’t take place when it could have.

DB: Is there anything else you’d like to add?

NB: Only that, from a career point of view, I enjoyed myself tremendously. I’m so happy that the dear lord allowed me to work with so many great, great people. So many quality people, both wrestlers and the promotional end of the whole thing. I think it’s one of the more honorable professions, in the sense that regardless of what people want to say, whether it’s doctors or lawyers or Indian chiefs, like I like to tell people: when I have stepped into the ring, I have given 100 percent, all the time, and the people have always gotten their money’s worth. I know a lot of attorneys, and a lot of doctors who, believe me – did their client get 100 percent for the money they paid? No. So I get very uptight when people make disparaging remarks about the profession, because again, what did you give whatever your occupation is? Did you give 100 percent value for the money they paid you? I always did.

[khawk20]

Great read, thanks for putting it up.

[Frankensteiner]

That was a really good read, thanks.

 

I also found an old site on archive.org that had a bunch of AOL chat and Prodigy interviews from 1996. Nothing earth shattering but somewhat interesting, especially reading it in the context of 1996 (the WWF ones were done at the time of WrestleMania). Here's one with Rick Martel:

 

OnlineHost: Welcome Rick Martel!!!

Rick: I want to say that it is great to be online so I can communicate with all my fans to tell them what's happening with me.

Question: Rick, I always loved your Model gimmick. Any change of you returning to the WWF in the future?

Rick: Yes, of course there are chances of that. I have always been treated very well by the WWF. When I am ready to come back to wrestling full time I will be talking with the WWF.

Question: WrestleMania 8...What do you remember about that match with Jake?

Rick: That was WM7... I am sure that somehow, now that I have watched it, Jake Roberts had to be able to see out of his blindfold otherwise he could never have beaten me.

Question: What have you been up to?Are you still wrestling?

Rick: No, right now I am enjoying myself like I never have. I am downhill skiing, snowmobiling up in Canada, going to Florida to play golf and just enjoying life. As of right now I am not ready to make a decision as to what I will do regarding wrestling.

Question: What Do you think about Skip stealing your move, when you would always do jumping jacks in the ring?

Rick: Well Skip can try to imitate me but he will never ever be able to duplicate me. Because of the way I look compared to the way he looks...he can try all he wants,but he will never come near the way I look.

Question: Mr. Martel, Would you ever team w/ the Z-man Tom Zenk again and reform the Can-Am Connection?

Rick: Well this is a very hard question. There is no doubt in my mind that he and I were the best tag team ever put together as far as style, look and skill. We performed as one and I am sure that if he and I were to stay together, we would have been the greatest tag team ever. Right now, it is a question I honestly cannot answer. I would not be able to trust him again ever, knowing that he walked away.

Question: Rick...You were great as the AWA champion.What do you remember about those days?

Rick: First, my matches against Nick Bockwinkle, those were great matches. And of course I remember most my win for the World title in AWA against Tsuruta.

Question: Where can I buy Arrogance and how much does 1 ounce cost?

Rick: Arrogance is priceless. You cannot put a price on it. I am the only one who can wear it and deserve it. Arrogance is not only a fragrance, it is a way of life.

Question: Are you related to Sherri Martel?

Rick: No, I am not. She is not my wife or my sister.

Question: You tagged up with Tito Santana, besides him whom was your best Tag Team Partner?

Rick: Of course Tony Garea.

Question: What was your most memorable match?

Rick: This is a hard one...I have had so many great ones. I would say the second time I won the world tag team championships with Tony Garea because nobody thought we could do it a second time. I was so proud of the effort that Tony and I put in and I think it was my greatest moment. Also, there was another time...in Miami at the Royal Rumble where I had the record for the longest time in the Royal Rumble. It felt great that night.

Question: Who do you believe to be the best in the WWF today?

Rick: It's very difficult to pick one. Definitely between Bret or Shawn.

Question: At WM6..you wrestled Koko..what do you remember about that match?

Rick: No, it wasn't easy to wrestle Koko, it's just that the way I felt great and of course it might look easy for the people when they see the way I move, but it sure wasn't. What I liked about WM in Toronto is that it wasn't my own country. It felt great to perform in such a great event.

Question: What do you think of older wrestlers making comebacks? i.e. Warrior, Snake.

Rick: I understand, doing what I am doing now. Wrestling is in your blood, it something that is hard to give up. When you feel as Ultimate Warroir and Jake Roberts feel, that they have so much to give prof. wrestling, why not do it? The fans benefit from it, and of course they benefit from it. It's a win win situation for everybody.

Question: What did you like better, tag team or singles?

Rick: I liked them both, but I liked singles better. You don't have to rely on anybody but yourself.

Question: Do you have any comments about the WWFvs WCW war?

Rick: Yes, I do. I think that the winners in this confrontation are definitely the fans. I think that the fact that there are two big organizations competing with each other, definitely brings the wrestler to perform at a higher level, to make sure that they have a place in one of the two federations.

Question: Who was your toughest opponent?Ever..either AWA or WWF?And why?

Rick: My toughest opponent ever was Stan the Man Hanson. He was big, strong and he had alot of stamina. This guy was unbeliveable.

Question: What do you think about the very unusual Goldust?

Rick: I don't care for that. I don't like that kind of behavior in a sport such as prof. wrestling at all.

Question: Hey Model..Do you still talk to wrestlers today?

Rick: Yes, I do keep in touch with Roddy Piper and The Genius.

Question: How was it working for Vince McMahon all those years?

Rick: I had a great time working for Vince McMahon. He was fair to me in good and in bad situations.

Question: If there was one wrestler you wish you had a chance to wrestler who would that be?

Rick: It's hard because I have wrestled many of them. I wrestled everybody I wanted to.

Question: What do you think about the Warrior? Do you still think he will be effective?

Rick: I definitely think so because I have seen him and wrestled him and he is very very intense. I know with his discipline and his great physical condition...there is no doubt in my mind that he will be a force to reckon with as he has been in the past.

Question: Do you think Sunny of the Body Donnas would have made agood manager for you?

Rick: Of course! She would have been a great manager for me. Our styles would have complimented each other in a great way.

Question: What do you think of Vader

Rick: First, I fear no one, just want to make that clear. Vader is big, tough and strong but he is human and I have experienced in wrestling that I can definitely use my advantage against such opponents.

Question: If you came back to the WWF...Who would you like to tag with?

Rick: To be honest, I wouldn't want to tag with anyone because I don't think anyone can meet my standards of a tag team partner whether it is in the ring or out of the ring.

Question: What are your feelings on Piper being the president, and what he's doing?

Rick: I was surprised when I heard that the WWF appointed him as acting president. But knowing him, I know that he will definitely do a great job and that no one, I am sure, will mess with him when he makes a decision.

Question: Over your career..Do you have any regrets?

Rick: No, I have no regrets. The only thing I regret in professional wrestling is the death of my brother Michel.

Question: Rick..Do you still keep in touch with Tito Santana?

Rick: No, I haven't.

Question: How did you get a start in pro wrestling?

Rick: I got my start in Nova Scotia. There was a wrestler that got injured one night and they needed a replacement for him within 24 hours. So, my brother called me up and told me to get on a plane from Quebec to Nova Scotia and he told me I was starting as a prof. wrestler. I was only 17 years old. That was the begginning... I always admired Jack Brisco. I thought he was everything a champion should be. He was my idol and I did get great motivation by watching him wrestle.

Question: Do you think that wrestling has changed for the better or worse?

Rick: Well it has changed for the better and worse. I think it has gotten more people around the globe watching and knowing about it through TV that it never had in the past. But as far as the wrestling style, I think that somehow it should have stayed more the way it was as far as wrestling holds etc. because there are more aerial movements now which I think there shouldn't be. I think that the showmanship part of it has gone too far. It should come back to the basics.

Question: Rick..at WrestleMania XII..Who do you think will win Shawn or Bret

Rick: My prediction is Shawn Michaels.

Question: Who was the toughest tag team you faced with Tony?

Rick: It was between Saito and Fuji and the Wild Samoans. Those were the two toughest opponents we faced.

OnlineHost: Rick Martel......Thanks for joining us on AOL!!